THAI executive denies pilot resignation reports

[laobali]

If this is true then it does not bode well for the standard of pilots who will be flying Thai.

Why would that be exactly? Perhaps because the level of aircrew spoken English doesn't go much beyond international ATC requirements?

[atyclb]

7 crews per aircraft is about the standard for an international airline.

Is having 7 different types of aircraft also the standard?

[laobali]

7 crews per aircraft is about the standard for an international airline.

Is having 7 different types of aircraft also the standard?

Variety is the spice of life. Thai like spicey.

[BlueSkyCowboy]

Middle East Airlines are hiring, some in big numbers. Pay may be better and promotion faster

[BlueSkyCowboy]

7 crews per aircraft is about the standard for an international airline.

Is having 7 different types of aircraft also the standard?

Big airlines have many types of aircraft. 7 types/models is easily possible

[GentlemanJim]

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1,350 pilots for a fleet of currently 93 aircraft flying to just 78 international destinations (plus a handful of domestic ones)?

Seems the entire pilot roster is just as hopelessly over-staffed as top management.

1,350 pilots / 93 aircraft. That's just over 14 pilots per plane. Seems a bit "over the top" if you ask me.

Long haul flights to Europe and beyond from Thailand will require TWO crews per flight. Crews will often have a 48-72 hour layover, and those aircraft keep going back and forward back and forward. As Neverdie rightly points out above, take in to account holidays, days off, training (the simulators run 20 hrs a day 365 days a year) and you then understand that if 200 did resign it is because they are probably working their boots off without the reward. 1350 pilots is NOT a lot for an airline the size of Thai. As it turns out there is a nice mathematical comparison between BA and Thai. BA have 269 aircraft, Thai have 93, so lets call that 3 times the fleet size. Thai have 1350 pilots and BA about 3600 (and they are taking on an extra 800 over the next 5 years). BA have a massive short haul schedule, requiring far less crews. The numbers are all pretty much the same. The only thing not taken into account of course is that people on TV want to slag off the Thai's at any possible opportunity, even when the Thai national airline employs at an almost exact equal ratio to British Airways.

200 pilots might want to resign over pay issues and some of you already start screaming about poor safety standards.

Perhaps Boike our retired 'commercial airline pilot for a big airline' might explain his line further

Thai has no standardisation and flies with almost every aircraft available. And people often confuse (good) service with good aircraft maintenance or standard of cockpit crew

What does 'flies with almost every aircraft available' mean? What do you mean by Thai has 'no standardization'? Are you implying that Thai has poor maintenance procedures, if so what is your evidence of this? Why are you implying Thai have a poor standard of 'cockpit crew'?

[Muhendis]

Thai airways employs 1350 pilots so how does that work out when they only have 84 'planes?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_Airways

Edited August 25, 2014 by Muhendis

[Benmart]

Decades of financial mismanagement, unreasonably high perks for executives and their extended families, freebie tickets for a whole army of politicians and celebrities, ticket overpricing that drove paying customers away, failure to increase overall efficiency, and appointments of largely inept board members and top managers not for their professional expertise but solely for their connections and affiliations with certain power groups finally come home to roost.

Well put, Sir. Thai was my preferred airlines years ago, but their price point and decline in service encouraged me to shop elsewheres.

[Benmart]

Thai airways employs 1350 pilots so how does that work out when they only have 84 'planes?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_Airways

Some pilots are part-time, reserve and on-call.

[SOTIRIOS]

....aw...who needs them....as long as they can keep writing themselves.....and their cohorts...... big bonuses.....

[BigBadGeordie]

The Chairman of ......FC said on Saturday after the team lost 5-0, the manager has our full support. Sound familiar?

[PattayaPhom]

Hard to understand why these "rumours" would not be actual......where did the rumour/information come from.......?

My guess is that this could well be another face saving denial....although 200 does seem a lot......wait and see.

WMD/Iraq

[lumply]

Those last few Posters defending the number of cockpit crew (say 675) for a fleet of 93 aircraft, were perfectly correct. This number is certainly not excessive assuming each crew cannot exceed 100 hours flying per month/duty time, then there is obligitory rest time, revalidation/training, leave, sick etc. Clearly there are many people here who are ignorant of the facts and just want to slate Thai Airways.

[Muhendis]

Thai airways employs 1350 pilots so how does that work out when they only have 84 'planes?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_Airways

Some pilots are part-time, reserve and on-call.

Thanks Benmart but lets assume there are:

84 pilots on call.

84 pilots are reserve.

84 pilots are flying

84 pilots are part time

total pilots is 336.

Lets double that for co-pilots to 672. Plenty of margin now I think but a long way short of 1350 (almost exactly half).

I find it difficult to imagine what all the other pilots might be doing unless of course they are flying for the affiliated airlines which would strictly speaking not be Thai Airways. Of course it could be that the airline boss is looking for the most favourable possible ratio of resignees to total numbers of pilots. I will leave it to others to work that one out but it looks much better if 1350 pilots are happily working for Thai Airways rather than 336 don't you think?.

[SPALAX]

Two years ago I flew from Bangkok to Phuket. Thai Airways Business Class. Asked tor a glass of red wine.

"No alcohoolic drinks on domestic airlines, Sir"

I switched to Thai Air Asia. I could buy 10 bottles of wine upon arrival for the same price.

[GentlemanJim]

Thai airways employs 1350 pilots so how does that work out when they only have 84 'planes?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_Airways

Some pilots are part-time, reserve and on-call.

Thanks Benmart but lets assume there are:

84 pilots on call.

84 pilots are reserve.

84 pilots are flying

84 pilots are part time

total pilots is 336.

Lets double that for co-pilots to 672. Plenty of margin now I think but a long way short of 1350 (almost exactly half).

I find it difficult to imagine what all the other pilots might be doing unless of course they are flying for the affiliated airlines which would strictly speaking not be Thai Airways. Of course it could be that the airline boss is looking for the most favourable possible ratio of resignees to total numbers of pilots. I will leave it to others to work that one out but it looks much better if 1350 pilots are happily working for Thai Airways rather than 336 don't you think?.

Please read the previous posts and stop clogging up the thread with utter nonsense.

Edited August 25, 2014 by GentlemanJim

[surangw]

if a THAI executive denies it, then it must be true ( happening)

[ableguy]

Could anyone believe a word any Thai in a official position utter , and from a failing company sucked dry by politicians.

[ableguy]

Those last few Posters defending the number of cockpit crew (say 675) for a fleet of 93 aircraft, were perfectly correct. This number is certainly not excessive assuming each crew cannot exceed 100 hours flying per month/duty time, then there is obligitory rest time, revalidation/training, leave, sick etc. Clearly there are many people here who are ignorant of the facts and just want to slate Thai Airways.

Pilots cannot fly anywhere near ion hours per month

[Basil B]

1350 pilots is not un-realistic for an airline with nearly 100 planes.

,

Short haul pilots may well be flying anything up to 6 sectors a day of 30 minutes to 3 hour duration, but they are normally limited to maximum of 8 hours a day, do not forget there time is measured from brakes off to breaks on and does not take in to account pre and post flight duties.

For long haul flights over 8 hours there will be extra flight crew, also time zone crossing has a effect on crew so on reaching their destination it maybe two days before they return and they can often do as little as one return trip a week, so for say for twice daily flights to London that is 14 hours duration with four flight crew on each flight, they would need over 50 pilots.

Just one question for those who think 14 pilots per plane is far too many, would you be happy to fly with a pilot who was not properly rested?

[lumply]

Those last few Posters defending the number of cockpit crew (say 675) for a fleet of 93 aircraft, were perfectly correct. This number is certainly not excessive assuming each crew cannot exceed 100 hours flying per month/duty time, then there is obligitory rest time, revalidation/training, leave, sick etc. Clearly there are many people here who are ignorant of the facts and just want to slate Thai Airways.

Pilots cannot fly anywhere near ion hours per month

Read the post. To expand the hours subject, from my recollection of Aviaton Law studies for my Commercial licence, a pilot max duty time cannot exceed 100 hours per month.

[jpduggan]

AVIATION

THAI denies pilot resignation reports

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- Thai Airways International Executive Vice President Athisak Padchuenjai on Monday denied the reports that some 200 pilots have tendered resignation.

At a press conference, he said no resignation has been received yet.

He said that each year, some pilots resign but that is normal and does not damage the company’s operations. Each year, new pilots are also recruited.

Athisak noted that pilots are in high demand in the aviation industry. This may have spurred the reports.

Media reports yesterday said that these pilots resigned en masse on worries of the company’s finances. In the first half of this year, the airline showed over Bt10 billion in net loss. The outlook is not bright given fiercer competition in the industry, led mainly by low-cost airlines.

As of August, THAI employs 1,350 pilots.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/business/THAI-denies-pilot-resignation-reports-30241699.html

-- The Nation 2014-08-25

Athisak noted that pilots are in high demand in the aviation industry.'' And where else would they be in demand???

[akaika]

1,350 pilots for a fleet of currently 93 aircraft flying to just 78 international destinations (plus a handful of domestic ones)?

Seems the entire pilot roster is just as hopelessly over-staffed as top management.

1,350 pilots / 93 aircraft. That's just over 14 pilots per plane. Seems a bit "over the top" if you ask me.

at least 2 but up to 5 pilots in a single flight. A crew on rest at each destinations and sometimes 2 crews. And a crew at home on rest. Sick calls and vacations. This is a normal amount of crew...

[akaika]

A minimum of 2 pilots but long flights have up to 6. Longer flights have 1 full crew on rest at destination sometimes 2 or 3. At least one crew on rest in home country. Training, called sick and vacation... Actually this is not over the top at all. Pilots paid salary plus per diem so even extra pilots are not as expensive as might be considered as they are really compensated only for the days they fly.

It seems they are actually short rather than over staffed since Thai still gets pilots on 'loan' from the air force too.

[Ricardo]

In my own time in aviation, we always reckoned to need 6-7 flight-crews(of 2 pilots) per aircraft, 1350 is therefore perfectly acceptable provided aircraft-utilisation is high, no over-manning there.

Although large-scale resignations might leave THAI a bit short ?

[F4UCorsair]

If they have 1350 pilots the airline should be praying for resignations.

So you are aware of how many pilots are actually required to man the current flight schedules.Engage brain before hitting keys!

Well you people know all the facts and figures------- 93 aircraft @ 7 pilots needed =651.We have1350 pilots which makes 699 too many.

Have I missed something here or is this another Thai bit of corruption or a scam that I havn't worked out yet ??????

Yes there is! 7 crews required, 2 (sometimes 3 or even 4) pilots per crew, so double your figure and you'te way short of pilots.

That figure sounds about right to me, or maybe even a touch light.

[F4UCorsair]

7 crews per aircraft is about the standard for an international airline.

Is having 7 different types of aircraft also the standard?

No it's not, but having a mix, airbus and Boeing, makes good commercial sense. If a patticular tupe, say B777, is grounded due to an unresolved issue, the airline doesn't lose most of its fleet if they also have A330's, a similarly sized aircraft, to utilize. The days of single type fleets are long gone.

More types need more pilots because each type requires reserve coverage, training and checking pilots, etc

Carrying spares for different types is not the financial imposition it once was with huge spares depots, serving different airlines, dotted around the globe.

Having different sized aircraft doesn't really count toward the problem because they fly different types of routes, some short, others long/er, regional centres versus international routes to major cities.

Edited August 26, 2014 by F4UCorsair

[boike]

1,350 pilots for a fleet of currently 93 aircraft flying to just 78 international destinations (plus a handful of domestic ones)?

Seems the entire pilot roster is just as hopelessly over-staffed as top management.

1,350 pilots / 93 aircraft. That's just over 14 pilots per plane. Seems a bit "over the top" if you ask me.

Long haul flights to Europe and beyond from Thailand will require TWO crews per flight. Crews will often have a 48-72 hour layover, and those aircraft keep going back and forward back and forward. As Neverdie rightly points out above, take in to account holidays, days off, training (the simulators run 20 hrs a day 365 days a year) and you then understand that if 200 did resign it is because they are probably working their boots off without the reward. 1350 pilots is NOT a lot for an airline the size of Thai. As it turns out there is a nice mathematical comparison between BA and Thai. BA have 269 aircraft, Thai have 93, so lets call that 3 times the fleet size. Thai have 1350 pilots and BA about 3600 (and they are taking on an extra 800 over the next 5 years). BA have a massive short haul schedule, requiring far less crews. The numbers are all pretty much the same. The only thing not taken into account of course is that people on TV want to slag off the Thai's at any possible opportunity, even when the Thai national airline employs at an almost exact equal ratio to British Airways.

200 pilots might want to resign over pay issues and some of you already start screaming about poor safety standards.

Perhaps Boike our retired 'commercial airline pilot for a big airline' might explain his line further

Thai has no standardisation and flies with almost every aircraft available. And people often confuse (good) service with good aircraft maintenance or standard of cockpit crew

What does 'flies with almost every aircraft available' mean? What do you mean by Thai has 'no standardization'? Are you implying that Thai has poor maintenance procedures, if so what is your evidence of this? Why are you implying Thai have a poor standard of 'cockpit crew'?

Take a look at their fleet. Then you will see that there is no standardisation. Also as I said, the service in the cabin can be excellent but pilots taking unnecessary risk in the last 15 years and that has to do with training. You dont NEED to land if its bad at your destination. You have alternates.

Poor maintenance and poor standards are your words. Just as you sarcastically point out my profile

Sent from my Galaxy S4 4G LTE

[Tomtomtom69]

Fly Thai, look forward to the pilot greeting in burmese, cambo, nigerian and pakistan accents......all at more expensive ratesvthan most other airlines...awesome thai business modell

At this time, THAI does NOT hire any foreign pilots. They may have in the past and who knows what the future will bring, but there are NO indications at this stage that their policy will change. In general, all Thai based airlines MUST give priority to Thai nationals for cockpit crew positions.

[Mzungu]

Fly Thai, look forward to the pilot greeting in burmese, cambo, nigerian and pakistan accents......all at more expensive ratesvthan most other airlines...awesome thai business modell

At this time, THAI does NOT hire any foreign pilots. They may have in the past and who knows what the future will bring, but there are NO indications at this stage that their policy will change. In general, all Thai based airlines MUST give priority to Thai nationals for cockpit crew positions.

TG will always get pilots from Thai Army and will not employ foreigners. They don't even employ women pilots (company policy). Even if they have Thai passport...