Thais are increasingly in debt, default

[surangw]

No mention of loan sharks, gold shop loans an other off the books sources?

[Gonsalviz]

The system is designed to keep people in debt, a debt-based economy. That is why banks are in business, and how they are able to swindle people.

Sounds like the good ole USA.

[JohnThailandJohn]

Thais are increasingly in debt

and???

Are there many places where this isn't true?

[SunsetT]

Its a got to have it,got to have it now ,world, thats they keep making

new models cars,tv,phones,and stupid people are drawn in to have

the latest model,even though there is nothing wrong with the one they

already have.

regards worgeordie

Capitalism is dependent on a consumer society and dependent on that society borrowing the money to consume and keep consuming. They hook us and brainwash us through advertising and keep us addicted to shopping and trapped for life through debt. The whole Capitalist system is based on everyone buying shit they dont need. Jobs manufacturing all that stuff is what lifts the masses out of poverty. Trouble is the advance in technology continues to drastically reduce the number of jobs created. Also with more and more countries becoming Western style consumer societies the ever increasing drain on the Earth's finite resources cannot be sustained, not to mention the damage the ever increasing throwaway waste is doing to our environment. Im afraid the whole pack of cards must at some point come tumbling down.

[Paulzed]

"Thais are increasingly in debt"

That's because they are still paying for Thaksins luxurious overseas holiday

Ridiculous.

Absurd

[chiang mai]

No mention of loan sharks, gold shop loans an other off the books sources?

Loan sharks yes, gold shops no - when folks go the gold shops it is to sell gold at an agreed price albeit it may be capable of being repurchased later at a different price, that's not really a load per se, it's commerce.

[mok199]

as govt officials ride 1st class...scum...

[ggt]

This is not just a Thai problem...more people are bringing home less money...and living beyond their means...around the globe...the rich get richer...the poor...poorer...individuals and nations have run up such large debts...it is doubtful if they will ever be paid...some economists say a "reset" will be needed to reestablish stability in world economies...

[zig]

...whilst you have prices going up and the wages standing virtually still, farm hands have been on 9000Bht PMC for two decades , its not surprising that something has to give, as long as the administration bows to big business and Thai's have limited spending power, nothing will improve, except the poor will certainly get poorer.

I would disagree - I have seen the local wages increased significantly in the last two decades, perhaps double - be that farm workers or qualified staff...

[Aldebaran1981]

A reset would mean the onset of a form of socialism or the re-emergence of communism?

Sooner or later it would happen, given the growing disparity between the rich and the poor.

[Baerboxer]

A reset would mean the onset of a form of socialism or the re-emergence of communism?

Sooner or later it would happen, given the growing disparity between the rich and the poor.

It will certainly change the social order. The middle classes are been squeezed out in most so called developed countries, The rich elites control banking and through holding the purse strings governments. Not sure about socialism. More like a small % of very rich elites controlling the majority who will be starved of education, opportunity and controlled by poverty and debt.

Western governments can raid citizens bank accounts, plunder their pensions, increase retirement age, increase taxes at will - all whilst failing to provide excellent health care and education. Look at the UK - failing NHS, bail out laws adopted so the government can rob citizens savings, education in a mess, and yet massive amounts spent on CCTV's, GCHQ, undercover police etc to make sure people can be controlled. Personal freedoms are being constantly eroded as the government seek to control more aspects of personal life and decisions.

You may well be right that a reset may be necessary and could be on the agenda already. But more like the rich, elite and politicians will benefit substantially at the cost of the rest of the people.

Thailand really isn't so bad when you start scratching the veneer of all those wonderful democracies who were quick to criticize the Junta whilst acting a little differently themselves.

[tubby johnson]

Live within your means.

Spend less than you earn.

Never borrow money.

Borrowing money robs you of your freedom. Don't become a servant.

[mrblue]

just stop spending money you don't have...

[trogers]

just stop spending money you don't have...

And stop buying the lottery with the money you do have.

It's all about attitude.

[gemini81]

just stop spending money you don't have...

And stop buying the lottery with the money you do have.

It's all about attitude.

..and priorities! If you live in a shed, don't buy a new Toyota Hilux, nor booze every night...

B. Franklin once said living below your means, if you can, means you've found the philosopher's stone.

[Bernard Flint]

"Thais are increasingly in debt"

That's because they are still paying for Thaksins luxurious overseas holiday

I never read that

silly boy

[billd766]

This is not a Thai thing. The same problem exists everywhere.

People are just too greedy, and the financial system is adept in exploiting that greed -- selling unsophisticated folk the story that assets can only go up in value, and making credit cards out to be glamorous, when in fact they are very dangerous.

The only solution to living debt free is to live within your means.

Except, Mrs CM's niece is a very bright girl, top grades year on year. She finally got accepted for medical school and the government will pay for four years of her tuition, the family must find the rest. And the family is as poor as poor can be, the niece started classes with less than a thousand baht in her pocket and no chance of the family finding much more - so I'm doing my subsidy trick, other families don't have a "me" to help out, what are they supposed to do, tell the girl she has to go work in a bar or in Tesco?.

My wife's eldest brother and his first wife had 2 children. The brother is now on his 3rd marriage.

My niece down in BKK was really stupid when she was younger (she is now 22). She must have looked around at so many women and decided to get a career in the future. She staed at school and worked hard and went to Uni and is the first child in the family to do so and get a degree.

Her brother, my nephew was much smarter (he is now 18). He quit school at 16 after living with his grandfather, grandmother (who has lived with us for more than 4 years now), father and sister and eventually he ended up here. He refused to go to school and my wife found him a job in the national park up the road. We supported him for 2 years, lent him the wifes scooter to get to work, gave him an alarm clock and I even woke him up to get to work.

This year he decided that the old scooter wasn't good enough so his grandmother (who still thinks he is a little boy and nobody else loves him) paid for it. He is supposed to pay her 1,000 baht a month to repay the loan and pay me 50 baht a day or 1,500 a month for his keep.

He crashed our scooted anr buggered it up as well which cost his mother 10,000 baht in repairs.

He seems to spend around 7 to 8,000 baht a month and pays his grandmother nothing and us nothing yet he only earns 6,500 a month. His solution was to pawn part of the scooter which he has only had 3 months, i.e. borrow money to pay his debts.

He is usually late for work and sometimes just doesn't go. He gets paid every month but from this month they will only be paid for the days they work. He has been told by my wife (who uses me as a threat and I do back her up) that if he loses his job his Dad will come up from BKK and take him back down there.

Both children are from the same parents and yet they are totally different.

The niece earns more than twice as much and is well liked with many friends yet her brother is a lazy idle good for nothing piece of crap.

[sanuk711]

"This is not a Thai thing. The same problem exists everywhere--Thanet"

So.......If all the nations in the world are in debt, where did all the money go?....................................

[wabothai]

I wonder why i cannot put my money in a savingsaccount just like in the west.

Do the banks prefer to reposses rather than being customer friendly and give the thai an opportunity to pay their monthly installments.

Also here lots of cleaning to be done.

[trainman34014]

"This is not a Thai thing. The same problem exists everywhere--Thanet"

So.......If all the nations in the world are in debt, where did all the money go?....................................

Into the rich peoples pockets which is where it all ends up. Biggest problem the world has is distribution of wealth, with the smallest amount of people have the largest amount of money. Until that problem is addressed things will stay as they are.....which means forever !

[ratcatcher]

just stop spending money you don't have...

And stop buying the lottery with the money you do have.

It's all about attitude.

..and priorities! If you live in a shed, don't buy a new Toyota Hilux, nor booze every night...

B. Franklin once said living below your means, if you can, means you've found the philosopher's stone.

Do you think some of the guys nipping around in Fortuners, Vigos and Isuzus care where they sleep? The most important thing is where their friends meet and see them, at the mall or the restaurant. Tons of people drive fancy wheels and live in a shit hole.And not only in Thailand either.

[chiang mai]

Except, Mrs CM's niece is a very bright girl, top grades year on year. She finally got accepted for medical school and the government will pay for four years of her tuition, the family must find the rest. And the family is as poor as poor can be, the niece started classes with less than a thousand baht in her pocket and no chance of the family finding much more - so I'm doing my subsidy trick, other families don't have a "me" to help out, what are they supposed to do, tell the girl she has to go work in a bar or in Tesco?.

My wife's eldest brother and his first wife had 2 children. The brother is now on his 3rd marriage.

My niece down in BKK was really stupid when she was younger (she is now 22). She must have looked around at so many women and decided to get a career in the future. She staed at school and worked hard and went to Uni and is the first child in the family to do so and get a degree.

Her brother, my nephew was much smarter (he is now 18). He quit school at 16 after living with his grandfather, grandmother (who has lived with us for more than 4 years now), father and sister and eventually he ended up here. He refused to go to school and my wife found him a job in the national park up the road. We supported him for 2 years, lent him the wifes scooter to get to work, gave him an alarm clock and I even woke him up to get to work.

This year he decided that the old scooter wasn't good enough so his grandmother (who still thinks he is a little boy and nobody else loves him) paid for it. He is supposed to pay her 1,000 baht a month to repay the loan and pay me 50 baht a day or 1,500 a month for his keep.

He crashed our scooted anr buggered it up as well which cost his mother 10,000 baht in repairs.

He seems to spend around 7 to 8,000 baht a month and pays his grandmother nothing and us nothing yet he only earns 6,500 a month. His solution was to pawn part of the scooter which he has only had 3 months, i.e. borrow money to pay his debts.

He is usually late for work and sometimes just doesn't go. He gets paid every month but from this month they will only be paid for the days they work. He has been told by my wife (who uses me as a threat and I do back her up) that if he loses his job his Dad will come up from BKK and take him back down there.

Both children are from the same parents and yet they are totally different.

The niece earns more than twice as much and is well liked with many friends yet her brother is a lazy idle good for nothing piece of crap.

And the rest of Mrs CM's family are not too far off, nice people, no drinking/drugs/crime but not bright when it comes to decision making and strategy, but why should they be so, they're country folk, rice farmers.

I think you have to try and pick the winners and support them until you're proven wrong or they simply go bad. The MIL has gone way off course, eight years on and she's not cleaned or repaired any aspect of the home we provided, she doesn't care because nobody ever taught her how to take care of things, we've both given up on her and don't go to visit any more.

Brother is doing OK, at least he's no overhead and seems to be working hard - younger sister can't stop sprogging and passing them over to mum to take care of whilst she finds a new frog.

Mrs CM is the standout, she's got her head screwed on but there again she's lived a different life to her family for the past eleven years.

Big sigh, it keeps coming back to education, it's a slow process.

[Jdiddy]

Well i for one like credit cards, i have 3, each card has it's own set of advantages like free travel insurance, free insurance excess waiver on hire cars, no international transaction fees, points, access to airport lounges ect ect. They definitely have their uses and are great for backup if used properly

total owing at the moment on all 3 is around 1% of their limit, basically nothing. Its all about self control

[laobali]

I have a friend who's Master Dissertation (NIDA) was a study of personal debt in Thailand, he told me that what he learned during that study caused him to loose a lot of sleep.

It is since discussing the issue with him that I have frequently suggested an expose on the transfer of land tittle deeds.

Tittle tattle?

[laobali]

this is thailand, it is more important to spend your money on Alcohol and women, banks do not encourage saving, there is no difference between a current account or a savings account. in order to get rid of this mentality, alcohol advertisements need to be shut off and kids need to be taught how to save.

And the list goes on...

[Jim walker]

Saving is not a priority amongst Thai people party today there is always tomorrow to save.

[brucec64]

It is not just the Thai households having increasing debts. The country itself has a massive increase in government debts incurred by the previous government.

Economic growth then was based on increasing debts, similar to what China did and is still doing, abet on a smaller scale.

Actually debt to gdp was 45 percent last year, and has averaged 45 percent from 1996 until now. Debt has increased as gdp increased, but the ratios do not suggest "massive debt" incurred by the last government.

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/thailand/government-debt-to-gdp

[trogers]

It is not just the Thai households having increasing debts. The country itself has a massive increase in government debts incurred by the previous government.

Economic growth then was based on increasing debts, similar to what China did and is still doing, abet on a smaller scale.

Actually debt to gdp was 45 percent last year, and has averaged 45 percent from 1996 until now. Debt has increased as gdp increased, but the ratios do not suggest "massive debt" incurred by the last government.

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/thailand/government-debt-to-gdp

I do recall a State Bank had a run not too long ago which forced it's president to resign. Was the amount of money transacted by this bank included in your charts?

[NCC1701A]

so be a rich person...

[brucec64]

It is not just the Thai households having increasing debts. The country itself has a massive increase in government debts incurred by the previous government.

Economic growth then was based on increasing debts, similar to what China did and is still doing, abet on a smaller scale.

Actually debt to gdp was 45 percent last year, and has averaged 45 percent from 1996 until now. Debt has increased as gdp increased, but the ratios do not suggest "massive debt" incurred by the last government.

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/thailand/government-debt-to-gdp

I do recall a State Bank had a run not too long ago which forced it's president to resign. Was the amount of money transacted by this bank included in your charts?

2014 data is not included because the year is not over yet. However, a run on a bank would not impact the overall debt to gdp ratio. Gdp is over 10 trillion baht making the government debt close to 5 trillion. What is the value of the transaction you are referring to and was this a government loan?