Warning If Working With Thai Ngo/charities

[MereNampeung]

I would like to warn non-Thais working in Thailand, particularly with non profit organisations. Please note, this is a message for people who intend to be paid by the charity, rather than those who are acting as non-paid volutnteers.

Even if you have a contract and a valid work permit, your contract may not be a legal document. For your work contract to be legal (and to therefore stand up in court in case of a dispute) it must:-

a) be a contract between you and your direct employer. If you wish to work for a small non-profit organisation, they may not be able to obtain a work permit for a non-Thai and so will suggest that a third (perhaps related) organisation helps to obtain the work permit. In these cases, ensure you also have a contract or employment agreement with your direct employer.

payment of wages and associated benefits and taxes must be paid by the organisation that is described as your employer in your employment contract.

c) you should be paid regularly every month by the employer.

If these conditions are not met, your contract is not legal and therefore you are not bound by it and neither are they. If you are not paid for any period of time, I strongly suggest that you raise the issue then or leave.

Many small organisations and NGO's are keen to employ non-Thais but cannot fulfil the requirements for obtaining work permits and so aim to find ways around the problem. If there are financial difficulties down the line, the non-Thai will lose out.

I was not aware of these problems and so lost out. I was trusting and foolish. I was approached by a small Thai wildlife non-profit organisation (too small to be a charity though) and asked to work for them doing a wide range of things including international fundraising, programme development and environmetnal education. At first they tried to get me to work illegally on a tourist visa, but I refused and insisted on a non-immegrant visa and work permit.

As the wildlife fund was too small to employ me, they arranged for me to have a contract with a registered charity whose president was also the president of the wildlife fund. I had know the president, then a well-known senator for Korat and his cousin who was the charity's managing director, for a while and trusted them.

Anyway, got my contract and my work permit (eventualy). The contract was quite detailed and included the wages that the head of the wildlife fund, the MD of the charity and I had agreed on. Time went on and it turned out that the wildlife fund had very little funds and the director was not overly competent in obtaining on-going sponsorship from Thai organisations. Money was continually an issue.

But, I believed that the work of the wildlife fund was important and as I had a contract, agreed to delay recieving part of my wages in many months and sometimes the whole wage in order to ensure that the fund could survive. The Charity gave money periodically to the fund and often this money was used to pay my wages when they did arrive. Othertimes, my wages were paid from other income by the charity.

Towards the end of my contract, I endeavoured to ask for my unpaid wages, but nothing was forthcoming. I was told one thing by one person and another by another, suggested opportunities to meet and discuss the problem never came to light. Eventually, I opted to ask legal advice and ended up taking the issue to the employment court.

To cut a long story short, they said that my contract was NOT legal, but just a contract of convenience in order to enable me to have a work permit. They stated that I had agreed to be a volunteer - a pile of B******t if there ever was one. So, I ended up without nearly six months wages and very angry about the treatment I had been given.

What is so depressing is that the people who cheated me are well respected amongst many Thais and westerners, but when they are pushed they show no honour.

Now I have returned to my own country with a very poor opinion of high class Thais and more importantly the Thai employment law.

So, please think twice about accepting paid work with any Thai non-profit organisation. If anything goes wrong, they will not think twice about screwing you.

[simon43]

Well... have to say 'This is Thailand'. The country is riddled with corruption, so it is no big surprise when a 'contract' is not honoured. Treat every baht that you are actually paid here as an unexpected bonus.

Over the years I have lost few million baht where the 'contract' was not honoured or was dishonest in it's details. What can I do about it? On paper, you can maybe do quite a lot, (legal action etc etc). In practice, the odds are totally stacked against you (being non-Thai). It's better just to walk away and put it down to experience.

Simon

[camerata]

At first they tried to get me to work illegally on a tourist visa, but I refused and insisted on a non-immegrant visa and work permit.

As a general rule, don't get involved with an employer that is reluctant to make you 100% legal right from the beginning because you'll probably have problems with them later on. It happened to me too. And don't expect "justice" or "punishment" for the wrongdoer from the Labour Court because the judges see themselves primarily as mediators between two parties.

Having said that, I think that Thais are so used to breaking or ignoring laws that some of them just don't think it's any big deal that a farang doesn't have a work permit. In their minds, any future problem can be solved by "negotiation" or by something under the table.

[ray23]

Sorry I'm going to go a little of subject here, but in the same general area. If an individual is seeking help from friends in Thailand and not, to help a group say a school or in my case an orphanage, do they need to actually form a charitable organazation to avoid visa conflicts?

I'm asking this as I feel the best way to avoid problems here is to follow the law but this is one that I know very little about. That being said no one is paid, it' just people helping people in the small ways they can.

If that is the case I suppose the answer would be to not ask for peoples help and just do what you can. If not I see a lot of benefit from individual telling thier friends about a problem, simply because they know you and feel that the effort is really going to benefit whatever project instead of being absorbed in Admin costs.

But wearing a white hat is not worth being placed in a position of violating Thai law.

This is one of those things in life that I see a never being problem until you upset the wrong person

[Oleg_Rus]

Having said that, I think that Thais are so used to breaking or ignoring laws that some of them just don't think it's any big deal that a farang doesn't have a work permit. In their minds, any future problem can be solved by "negotiation" or by something under the table.

true, but let me add - any farang can sue any thai company, it's just a question of persistence. They are sooo used to give-uppers, so when you'd open a case - ti's a big surprise.

Judges will try to mediate, but the law is the law. I've seen simple ppl winning cases just based on common sence and details, that locals always loose.

My opinion is simple - give back so much, next time they will think thrice