Aliens, are they leaving?,if so why?

[sirocco]

But it's a catastrophe for the construction of houses.

At Hua Hin, farangs are building anything goes, while there was a lot of houses for sale or parcequ'elles have not been sold or that the proprietors who had stomach bigger than your ass can not more pay, or they return to their country.

It is the greed of these aberrant farangs who for sound, do not hesitate to get in awkward situations.

Currently, in Hua Hin, they are flaunting sale / promotion / big discounts magnificent villas.

[sanuk711]

1. The horrendous dangerous driving....car accidents, motor bike accidents, ....it's no pleasure getting around.

2, Even walking is unpleasant....pot holes in the pavements and crossing a road is like dicing with death....I think motor cyclists try to hit a Farang.

3, The high crime rate......the burglaries, the thousands of people on drugs of one sort or another and the large number of supposed 'suicides'.

4. The feeling that you are not really liked by a vast proportion of the people....they pretend to like you for money.

5, The hassle with visas and the not knowing what will happen in the future.

6 The CORRUPTION from the highest to the lowest.

Just a few of numerous reasons why many ALIENS are saying Good bye.

And the feeling that things here are not improving generally but deteriorating,

And all these things were not here when you first looked, then decided you wanted to live here robert888d...........???

It must have been nice, place back then, no motor bike accident--no pot holes in the pavement--No crime--No corruption--no visa hassels................Wow what year was that robert........???

.

With all these motor bikes tying to hit you & all the people around you filled with hate for farangs , yer I really think you should join the exodus robert, .....either that or take some time out to sit & talk with a professional.............

Edited August 29, 2014 by sanuk711

[1FinickyOne]

The RE markets in Thailand have always seemed funny to me as there seemed to be a lack of market factors in that when there was plenty on the market, prices were not dropping - there seemed a willingness to buy and hold. The disorderliness is partly due to no multiple listing services and no way to find comparables.

Now, for the first time, it seems that many places are being reduced - whether it is because they were overpriced or not, I cannot judge. The moo bahns in CM always seemed very quiet and as if there were a lot of vacancies, be it houses for rent or just not advertised or listed for sale with no signage. I think these are always difficult resales as prices need to be lower than that of the new constructions.

Being a landlord can be a very very annoying business. I had rental properties, not in Thailand and it was a 50/50 propostion between good tenants and nightmares. One of the people above suggested buying from the pool of available homes or apartments and renting those, which might be cheaper than building. And if you will be living there too, you have the plus of being able to watch over the rental and the neg of having an awful tenent in your face.

ps - I am also fine with my life here. I think many of the people who complain of problems don't seem to realize how much harder it is for a Thai to go to a Western country as far as visa/paperwork. Or maybe they would complain no matter where they are -

[Maroon Watcher]

... or better - wanted (needed) Guests

Maybe people are fed up with be treated like second class citizens and are moving to countries that want their economic input. Or its becoming to expensive and regulated , and of course all the visa crackdowns and nominee company crackdowns may be forcing people out, Thailand is still a great place but its losing its advantages one step at a time.

I think this is at least part of the reason.

Yet again I find myself the odd one out with this thinking, I'm very OK with the way I'm treated here, 90 day reports are a minor hassle (transferred to a visa agent for 1k a year), visa renewal, once a year, I can handle that, that's about it really.

agreed....some can't seem to realize that we are still "visitors."

[Stjohnm]

I can't speak for anyone else but I moved back to England almost a year ago for family reasons & to sort out my own medical issues with the help of the NHS. Although I've thought about returning to LOS now many of those issues have been resolved I'm in no rush to jump on a plane.

The news on changing visa rules & the coup are part of it but not the whole reason. I forgot how much I missed my friends & family in my mother country in the decade I was away. I miss Thailand & will return, but to live? maybe, but not just at the moment.

[Maroon Watcher]

And how about the rest of the country...

I noticed Bangkok Immigration was relatively quiet - despite the addition/lack of visa run people ?

[peachykeen]

I've just moved back to my home country after many years of living in Thailand and I couldn't be happier.

Honestly, I felt as though the hostility towards foreigners was getting worse with each passing day. More and more violence, petty theft, landlords trying to blindside with higher rates, etc. It was frustrating to feel like a walking ATM and a second class citizen. That's no way to live, in my opinion.

[canarysun]

I have noticed on Facebook and Chiang Mai adverts etc that yes there does seem to be many farang leaving Thailand who have been living in Chiang Mai.Selling off there entire house contents before moving on.But i don't think that it has anything to do with VISAS as that shouldn't really cause people to " exit rather swiftly " ...........F.J

[givenall]

Most of us come here for fascination with the ladies and the entertainments and eventually get old. But don't worry, new blood will replace us

[richard10365]

I am not moving. I like the new government. I like the tighter controls on the media. I'm indifferent about the alcohol changes because I don't drink. All in all, I think it is better after the coup than before the coup. Democratically elected ineffective governments are overrated. To be a politician you should have to get a license to make rules for millions of people instead of getting elected just because you are popular. However, if your popular and have a license to be elected to public office, then that's ok. Many countries would benefit if all their politicians had a license to practice government.

License issued by the army?

Good question. I think it would have to be something put together by academics around the world. Perhaps even have it be a United Nations involved project. If you think about it, it's crazy to have someone who's only qualification is they can convince people in their district to elect them to public office. Once they get there, the educated and experienced politicians convince them to vote on something they don't even understand. The rest of us have to live with the result of that vote. Perhaps democracy is the last holdout to globalization. At one time it was needed and it did good. Now democracy means you have a government that can't resolve the important issues for a country......and I'm not talking about Thailand. Although it could apply. The world needs a 21st century style of global educated democracy.

[Maejoe]

I don't think the current wave of Visa enforcement has much bearing on it. Certainly some "permanent residents" are leaving, but for other reasons.
Many people are starting to feel the economic pinch - maybe especially those that retired early. The real cost of living for expats keeps creeping up, and some of those living on pensions are really feeling the pinch.
A couple of my friends from neighbouring villages have gone, one couple have returned to the UK in order to benefit from Social Security support, another couple have gone to an island in the Philippines to live what they believe will be a cheaper lifestyle.
Those of us that are real long timers will easily remember when the exchange rate was B80+ to the pound - and there was no way you could actually spend your monthly income ! And now ............

[mathias24]

Let's be honest they , the Thai's( government ) , don't want us here, we pump billions of Bhat into economy but all they want is for the ferang to go home and leave their wallet

[herb59]

yes ,leaving in 2015. many different reasons. things are changing. its time to try something else. you could take asylseekers.....

[n210mp]

_{I am living in Thailand since 1987...}

_{I understand that some foreigners are frustrated with certain legal obligations before they can stay here long term...}

_{I have asked before : is there any country between Istanbul and Tokyo where it is easier for foreigners to live than in Thailand?}

_{Each time when I asked this question to a group of foreigners the honest reply was NO ....despite some bureaucratic hurdles}

_{Let us those who think the grass is greener in the meadows of other countries.... just leave Thailand and try what they think is better.}

Your post is completely illogical and unrepresentative of most of those like me who can find easy fault in the Thai bureaucratic logic when it comes to the Thai idea of fairness and reciprocity.

Firstly I didn't marry a Turk or a Japanese person, I married a Thai lady so the ease of integration in those Countries becomes irrelevant like you post!

I certainly in any event wouldn't want to reside in a Muslim Country ( least said soonest mended)

As far as Japan is concerned not sure whether they are on an even mental keel ( I am old enough to remember the last war and still find it hard to forgive them for their atrocities.

You only have to watch some of their TV games to wonder just what it is that makes them tick or more important turns them On, they seem to have a built in sense of sadism.

Been to most of those apparent grasses that you talk about and the fundamental differences have not been anything like the unfairness and racist policies of the Thai government that we face in trying to follow our simple desire to be part of our great Thai family.

Why you should use the old soubriquet of saying if you dont like it here then Bog off I do not understand and does nothing for your argument

We (The Ex Pats) bring money, expertise and support to a community that does nothing (Generally) but attempts to suck the life blood out of us one way or another in their attempts at getting as much money out of us as possible.

Indeed it is a national sport or havnt you noticed?

The only thing that pacifies me is that they are (the typical Thai community) the same with each other and attempt to get the best advantage from any situation , lies being a Nationally accepted way of resolving situations

Seems like you have been well brainwashed if you try to justify their draconian and unjust racist rules on the laws applied to the spouses of Thai people.

[mikecat]

I know six people that have left from my area. All teachers all legal but fed up with the constant hassles with visa extensions, teachers council and the attitude of some schools. I my self will leave at the end of my contract. Really for 30 thousand a year it isnt worth the bother. It is not the fact that you have to report address every 90 days or renew every 12 months it just the fact that regardless of qualifications being correct and correct paperwork provided the rules or interpratations of the laws and the mood of the particular immigration officer on the day leaves you feeling very insecure.

I dont think people have left because of the coup, in fact agree with it or not, most people would feel a sense of relief and actually feel safer. Many visa runners and people who have been working illigally have surely seen the writing on the wall and have departed or considering departing.

Someone will no doubt dispute what I am saying but I venture many people who have to front up at immigration every three months will feel a sense of trepadation or frustration. You may have been going along merrily year after year with no problems and then all of a sudden the rules change or out of blue they want another bit of paper.

The recent spate of changes seems to have clarified some things and made others easier as well as tightening up loop holes or abuse. However, untill they sort how to clarify the intention and implementation of immigration law and rules nationwide insecurity will prevail.

[apalink_thailand]

Maybe people are fed up with be treated like second class citizens and are moving to countries that want their economic input. Or its becoming to expensive and regulated , and of course all the visa crackdowns and nominee company crackdowns may be forcing people out, Thailand is still a great place but its losing its advantages one step at a time.

Tend to disagree. Thailand is just ridding itself of the riffraff.

[masuk]

Hi, Worgeordie

A better way to judge whether there are fewer aliens is the crowd at immigration. By that measure, it doesn't look like the numbers are decreasing at all.

Greater vacancies in older moo bans/condos could be explained by the fact that there are many new moo bans/condos with newer, possibly better, properties for rent, giving renters more choices.

Building an investment property: Only you can decide, but these are the calculations I'd take into account:

- assume a conservative rental amount

- It will be rented out 70% of the time (i.e., 70% occupancy)

- 6 to10% of the rental income will go towards maintenance, insurance, management fees during vacant months, etc.

After considering the above, if the return on the cost of building and fitting the house is greater than 4%, then go ahead. Remember, you can get 3.5 to 5% on government bonds that come up for sale from time to time.

Btw, "Alien" is a normal term used by immigration departments everywhere to refer to non citizens.

T

Used by Immigration in the USA and the Philippines, and seems to be used here a lot.

I've seen Immigration in other countries use terms such as 'Buitenlanders', Non-British, 'Foreigners'

Maybe you could enlighten us as to who else uses this non-Martian term.

[ericthai]

I was talking to a long time resident frang and he said he was looking at Malaysia.

He had the idea 'WE' are not welcome.

I too am of the opinion that since the most Bloodless Coup in Thai history and they do have a history on that subject we are living in a non threatening enviroment.

Think Khun T would have had us out but not this present crowd.

john

I would not say most bloodless coup in Thai history. The coup in 2006 was also bloodless and with no resistance at all. This coup did have some resistance.

In 2006 I didn't even know we had a coup until my brother called to ask if all was ok.

I do agree I feel Thailand for the most part is safe,just don't go down south near the boarder of Malaysia.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Maybe people are fed up with be treated like second class citizens and are moving to countries that want their economic input. Or its becoming to expensive and regulated , and of course all the visa crackdowns and nominee company crackdowns may be forcing people out, Thailand is still a great place but its losing its advantages one step at a time.

Tend to disagree. Thailand is just ridding itself of the riffraff.

The 'riff-raff' being non Asians.

A sort of peaceful ethnic cleansing.

Until it's not peaceful.

[navara]

Actually, I have never been treated as less than a human being here in Thailand. Have you?

I also happen to think it is a privilege for me (a non citizen) to be here, not a right. And if you feel it is your right to be here even though you are not a citizen, well then there is where we part company...it's a difference of opinon on which I can only agree to disagree, with all due respect to your point of view.

It's certainly easy to perceive, correctly or not, being treated as less than equally human here, whether it be due to cultural differences, communication difficulties, genuine bigotry and hubris or our own projections of our own beliefs on to the Rorshack test of a strange tableau. It's just an additional stress in life. To paraphrase John Wayne - life's tough but it's tougher when you're an alien. Many of us aliens can cope and even grow in that environment while many, after various lengths of time, can't.

So beautiful written.....

In simple words; at first you felt to be in paradise......but as a citizen for several years you find out the real truth about this life. After being fooled hundreds of times, betrayed by close friends and to find out that actually nobody wants to know how you think or feel about things.... it's time to leave. Some, like myself, are still hoping for better times. We keep on saying that in our country things are the same, but in fact we are the biggest fool of all.

Oh, except the ones who are lucky.....

[Benmart]

Three of my friends have left within the past 6 months. Two were for health reasons and one chose to relocate to Mexico. He had been in Thailand for over twenty years and wanted something different.

[Benmart]

_{I am living in Thailand since 1987...}

_{I understand that some foreigners are frustrated with certain legal obligations before they can stay here long term...}

_{I have asked before : is there any country between Istanbul and Tokyo where it is easier for foreigners to live than in Thailand?}

_{Each time when I asked this question to a group of foreigners the honest reply was NO ....despite some bureaucratic hurdles}

_{Let us those who think the grass is greener in the meadows of other countries.... just leave Thailand and try what they think is better.}

Your post is completely illogical and unrepresentative of most of those like me who can find easy fault in the Thai bureaucratic logic when it comes to the Thai idea of fairness and reciprocity.

Firstly I didn't marry a Turk or a Japanese person, I married a Thai lady so the ease of integration in those Countries becomes irrelevant like you post!

I certainly in any event wouldn't want to reside in a Muslim Country ( least said soonest mended)

As far as Japan is concerned not sure whether they are on an even mental keel ( I am old enough to remember the last war and still find it hard to forgive them for their atrocities.

You only have to watch some of their TV games to wonder just what it is that makes them tick or more important turns them On, they seem to have a built in sense of sadism.

Been to most of those apparent grasses that you talk about and the fundamental differences have not been anything like the unfairness and racist policies of the Thai government that we face in trying to follow our simple desire to be part of our great Thai family.

Why you should use the old soubriquet of saying if you dont like it here then Bog off I do not understand and does nothing for your argument

We (The Ex Pats) bring money, expertise and support to a community that does nothing (Generally) but attempts to suck the life blood out of us one way or another in their attempts at getting as much money out of us as possible.

Indeed it is a national sport or havnt you noticed?

The only thing that pacifies me is that they are (the typical Thai community) the same with each other and attempt to get the best advantage from any situation , lies being a Nationally accepted way of resolving situations

Seems like you have been well brainwashed if you try to justify their draconian and unjust racist rules on the laws applied to the spouses of Thai people.

The Thailand I live in agrees with me. I Live Life on Life's Terms and Live and Let Live.

I try not to diagnose the status of the brains of others, since I'm not qualified, nor do I have the desire to do so.

I take no pleasure in the sadness or dishonestly of others, and I enjoy the positive and happy folk I meet.

When the day comes that I do not feel the same as today, I will move on. Life is full of choices, which many can also take advantage of.

[northernjohn]

Around the KOOLPUNT 5,6 and 7 area, there has been an increase in the number of available properties over the past few months.

The Missionaries near the entrance to Koolpunt 5 are moving, although I think they are simply relocating elsewhere in CNX. I overheard a guy with an American accent talking to a couple of Thais in a coffee shop a few months back about wanting to "move his flock" in August to new premises, so not only will the "Commercial" area be vacant but also a number of homes that were occupied by the "flock."

Aside from that, I know quite a few Older Ferang are less than impressed with the new Government ditching the Health Care Project that was introduced only last year. This will leave many FERANG High and Dry when they become sick as they can't afford the massive premiums demanded by Insurance companies. Yes, there are more and more empty houses around and I don't think they'll be rented any time soon.

Yes there are many disappointed over the health care that seemed to be offered to Farongs.

The reality was it was very poorly written and not intended for Farongs.

Let us hope this new Government will take a realistic look at it. I suspect if they do it is well down on their to do list.

[northernjohn]

Maybe people are fed up with be treated like second class citizens and are moving to countries that want their economic input. Or its becoming to expensive and regulated , and of course all the visa crackdowns and nominee company crackdowns may be forcing people out, Thailand is still a great place but its losing its advantages one step at a time.

Please allow me to correct a common misconception: You are not a citizen, second class or other class. In fact, I bet the majority of us aliens have a stamp in our passports that says Non Immigrant.

So, if someone is leaving because he wants to be treated as a citizen even though he is a non immigrant... Hardly the fault of the Thai government or its people, is it?

I suppose some are asking too much when wanting to be treated as a human being?

It's not a privilege to be here, or anywhere for that matter. It should be a right. Borders are imaginary lines created by greedy men and royalty, that's it. You can't see borders from space and they don't exist within the universe.

To be honest, it's little sad so many of you think so little of yourself that you blindly accept such things.

Let us know how that works out when you try to just walk into the area known as Burma. Better still India.

[KhnomKhnom]

If Westerners are leaving Thailand, I say good and hurrah. A large percentage of those I meet and read comments from, in effect, do not deserve Thailand. They denigrate and have no wish to understand Buddhism, they feel superior to Thai, they have a colonialist attitude that includes cultural imperialism, and they do not treat their wives or girl friends with respect. That kind of Westerner should have the exit door held open for him.

Thailand will not miss their puny spending here, and will not miss their insulting behavior. Thailand has declared itself as a "dumping free" zone lately, meaning trying to shed itself of the escaped petty criminals, the deep alcoholics/drug users, and those abusing the gentle people's kindnesses here. The practice of cheaply buying living here with small bribes, which further corrupt the nation, is going fast.

Bye bye.

[northernjohn]

Many long years ago I did a job in Jasper Alberta Canada a national park. I could not understand why the locals had to pay the same high prices as the tourists. I feel the same way here and find that many times I am not charged more than the locals and a simple Thai drivers license also reduces the price to some places. Often I am looked at when going through a check point on a high way and just waved through.

Last time I was in Jasper, no park entry fee, only ski lift fees, which were hugely discounted for residents.

Thai highway check points, looking for drugs and illegals, neither demographic have white boys as drivers (or passengers).

did you buy food or any thing else there. Sounds like you were just passing through. I was there for 5 weeks.

Have no idea what you are talking about on the high way checks. Like I said the ones I was stopped at.

[northernjohn]

Lots of possibilities although I agree, over the past few months I've seen an increase in farang owned property come available, possible reasons:

insecurity resulting from the military government

people with visa problems.

others cashing in on the exchange rate.

I'm sure there are lots of other reasons also.

Is this only happening in Chaing Mai? What about the rest of Thailand? I have read that the Immigration office in CM has upset a few, could this be part of the reason?

They are upset because the office is so full of people to get visa's and 90m days. People leaving Thailand don't have to go in there. It is just locals. Along with the people just moving into Chiang Mai.

Part of the reason for so many empty buildings is they built far more than are needed. Also as some one else mentioned some are just moving to another part of Thailand.

[Isaandon]

I was in the process of typing a lengthy answer to your questions with specific reasons. Then it hit me. The answer is yes, the expats are leaving and for obvious reasons. Have you read the news today ( on TV) oh boy. I packed my bags and moved to an undisclosed location 2 weeks ago. So far so good.It is sad really, i loved Thailand 10-12 years ago. Paradise lost!

When the tourist stop coming and the expats leave (and they will) the Thais will be asking, where did all the (buffaloes) revenue go? To a country with genuine smiles and a (somewhat) logical mindset. Only then they will realize that the universe does not rotate around a wat/temple in Thailand. All the while scratching their heads trying to figure out how they are going to pay their house, fortuna and motor bike loans. The land of repossessions!!!

You want us to leave? OK. Good luck!

PS...remember the last crash? The next one is coming soon!!!

C Ya

[DaamNaam]

in fact i feel more secure since the army took over

you must be the only one

He's not. Everyone i spoke with says the same.

[camsouth]

Did not take long to F£$k up a serious subject.

regards Worgeordie

Worgeordie wife and i are planing on living in Chaing Mai soon let me know where; these houses are ill come look