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[NanLaew]

Several years ago, my offshore UK bank simply requested proof of an overseas address so that I could be deemed non-resident in the EU for purposes of the ESD reporting.

Recently browsing some UK offshore banking sites, I picked up the following,

If you are an EU National residing outside the EU, you are deemed to be "resident" for ESD purposes in your EU country of nationality and therefore will automatically default to Information Exchange. In line with our responsibilities we will share information about you and your savings income with the relevant tax authorities.

This suggest that regardless of where you hang your hat, stated or otherwise, they will report your banking activity per the ESD initiative unless you can provide a Tax Residence Certificate from your 'local' tax authority.

Does anyone know if there have been any published changes in their UK offshore banking regulations with regard to ESD information?

As a retiree in Thailand, is it possible to get a Thai Tax Residence Certificate? I thought that the only way foreigners can obtain any tax certification in Thailand, they need to have a Work Permit and the job and salary.

[meatboy]

I am retired and pay tax on all of my fixed deposit accs.here in Thailand,i don't work,so the only income I get here is savings interest,and as for the tax I registered with the tax office,get tax withheld certificate from the banks,and claim the tax back every jan.of each yr.on interest earned up to 150,000bht.after that its as per scale.also I get a certificate from the tax office.

[NanLaew]

I wonder if it is possible to pay taxes on 'income' as shown by inward remittances to my Bangkok Bank account and get a tax certificate for that? I usually transfer in a fixed sum each month.

[KittenKong]

I am retired and pay tax on all of my fixed deposit accs.here in Thailand,i don't work,so the only income I get here is savings interest,and as for the tax I registered with the tax office,get tax withheld certificate from the banks,and claim the tax back every jan.of each yr.on interest earned up to 150,000bht.after that its as per scale.also I get a certificate from the tax office.

Same.

None of my offshore banks have ever asked me for a Thai tax certificate, but I dont care if they report my info to the UK taxman anyway as I am not resident there.

[NanLaew]

I am retired and pay tax on all of my fixed deposit accs.here in Thailand,i don't work,so the only income I get here is savings interest,and as for the tax I registered with the tax office,get tax withheld certificate from the banks,and claim the tax back every jan.of each yr.on interest earned up to 150,000bht.after that its as per scale.also I get a certificate from the tax office.

Same.

None of my offshore banks have ever asked me for a Thai tax certificate, but I dont care if they report my info to the UK taxman anyway as I am not resident there.

With regard to UK taxation, I have been non-resident and not ordinarily resident in the UK since 1977. Absolutely no income from anything in the UK of any kind.

The subject of this post is the European Savings Directive which has nothing directly to do with the 'UK taxman'. For 30 years, my offshore bank never communicated with me other than sending quarterly statements to the correspondence address in the UK and the occasional update of terms and conditions. However, once I went online and updated both my UK correspondence address due to death in the family and Thailand residential address due to relocation for a childs education, they have a sudden interest in me being able to prove where I actually live.

[KittenKong]

None of my offshore banks have ever asked me for a Thai tax certificate, but I dont care if they report my info to the UK taxman anyway as I am not resident there.

The subject of this post is the European Savings Directive which has nothing directly to do with the 'UK taxman'.

The ESD has everything to do with the UK taxman as, for Brits who live outside the EU, all the reporting is done to the tax authorities of Britain. The ESD itself is all about reporting to the individual tax authorities, and the sharing of data between them.

For 30 years, my offshore bank never communicated with me other than sending quarterly statements to the correspondence address in the UK and the occasional update of terms and conditions. However, once I went online and updated both my UK correspondence address due to death in the family and Thailand residential address due to relocation for a childs education, they have a sudden interest in me being able to prove where I actually live.

So what's the big deal? None of my offshore banks (and I have several) wants my Thai tax certificate, though they do all ask for proof of address. If they did ask for my Thai tax certificate I would just give it to them as it makes no difference to me.

I did notice when opening a new online account recently that one of my onshore UK banks (which pays my interest gross under form R105) asked for my Thai tax number (not certificate), and indicated that by law it would be reporting this number to the UK taxman. I have no problems with that either. So far none of my other onshore banks have done this, but I haven't opened any new accounts with them recently.

[NanLaew]

I am not arguing anything here but I did say the ESD has nothing directly to do with the HMRC inasmuch as HMRC don't proactively communicate directly with the individual account holder until they are notified by some mechanism of the ESD. Once notified, it is logical that the tax authority of your EU country of origin will be the one you have to deal with.

My point from the OP is that a few years ago the bank in question was satisfied with just having the foreign address on file with no verification needed. They sent a form that I filled in and mailed back and that was entered into my account information. The instruction indicated that a foreign and specifically non-EU address was needed to AVOID being assessed under the ESD., ie. the default was "non-EU resident = not reporting to ESD."

With reference to the italicised comment lifted from another offshore banks website, "If you are an EU National residing outside the EU, you are deemed to be "resident" for ESD purposes in your EU country of nationality and therefore will automatically default to Information Exchange. This would indicate that the default has changed to "non-EU resident = reporting to the ESD."

Based on my recent experience with that bank, they now want actual proof of that foreign residence address. I am assuming that some ESD mechanism has been triggered with the correspondence and residential address update that I submitted a few months ago.

Finally, none of my existing banks have asked for a foreign tax certificate either; my question about Thai Tax Certificates was triggered after looking at the requirements for opening new accounts as it appears to be a requirement when opening a new account with at least one UK offshore bank that I looked at online.

Thanks,

NL

[KittenKong]

Based on my recent experience with that bank, they now want actual proof of that foreign residence address.

All my GB banks, onshore and offshore, have required this for at least 5 years. Some more. They usually ask me for a letter/statement from some other bank or HMRC or National Insurance.

[Felt 35]

I wonder if it is possible to pay taxes on 'income' as shown by inward remittances to my Bangkok Bank account and get a tax certificate for that? I usually transfer in a fixed sum each month.

Yes it is possible. I get this certificate annually paying tax on pension income. Just register with Your local Revenue office to get a Tax id. After you have paid the tax in March or earlier you can apply for the income tax payment certificate and various other certificates include certificate of residence. The application usually would have to be sent to the region revenue department and it can take everything from 2-6 weeks to get the certificate. http://www.rd.go.th/publish/21974.0.html

[NanLaew]

Based on my recent experience with that bank, they now want actual proof of that foreign residence address.

All my GB banks, onshore and offshore, have required this for at least 5 years. Some more. They usually ask me for a letter/statement from some other bank or HMRC or National Insurance.

Thanks for that. It ball parks the change maybe around 2008. Before that, the offshore bank was happy with just the address on file, now they seek actual proof of the address. The last UK onshore bank account I opened was also in 2008 and they required an existing bank account as part of that procedure.

What is your opinion on a possible change in what the ESD reporting default is? My interpretation of the letter from my Isle of Man bank pre- 2008 was that furnishing a non-EU residential address meant you defaulted out of ESD reporting. However, the wording in the current online application for a Barclays offshore account suggests that a non-EU address means you are defaulted in to ESD reporting. I am just wondering if this was a subtle change or a well publicized change by other banks due to new EU laws. I am sure it will be buried in some revised terms and conditions and I could email my banking advisor but just wondering if anyone here noted this specifically if/when it happened.

[NanLaew]

I wonder if it is possible to pay taxes on 'income' as shown by inward remittances to my Bangkok Bank account and get a tax certificate for that? I usually transfer in a fixed sum each month.

Yes it is possible. I get this certificate annually paying tax on pension income. Just register with Your local Revenue office to get a Tax id. After you have paid the tax in March or earlier you can apply for the income tax payment certificate and various other certificates include certificate of residence. The application usually would have to be sent to the region revenue department and it can take everything from 2-6 weeks to get the certificate. http://www.rd.go.th/publish/21974.0.html

Thanks for that. Can you tell me what your Revenue Office accepts as your Thai residential address? Also, what proof do they seek for that residential address?

For example, I have a house that I have the yellow aliens residence book for (thor ror 13). I consider this as my primary residence in Thailand although I spend the time equally in a rental property in another province. For Immigration (retirement extension) purposes, I use the rental property as my residential address and they accept that. I am wondering if there's a different opinion on 'primary' residence and what qualifies as such for the Thai Revenue Department. I see that the Revenue Department also issue a Certificate of Residence. Do they accept what Thai Immigration accepts for proof of residence or do they have their own criteria?

Thanks.

NL

[KittenKong]

What is your opinion on a possible change in what the ESD reporting default is? My interpretation of the letter from my Isle of Man bank pre- 2008 was that furnishing a non-EU residential address meant you defaulted out of ESD reporting. However, the wording in the current online application for a Barclays offshore account suggests that a non-EU address means you are defaulted in to ESD reporting.

I seem to remember that the ESD was applied in stages and the offshore banks went from paying interest gross to deducting tax on a sliding rate over three years (unless you opted for reporting) to paying gross and reporting automatically. I suspect that the change you noticed was part of this last step.

I never really paid very much attention to the many letters I received about this as I dont care what gets reported about me to the UK.

[KittenKong]

Can you tell me what your Revenue Office accepts as your Thai residential address? Also, what proof do they seek for that residential address?

I think mine (Jomtien) just copied my address from the back of my Thai driving license. Maybe I took a utility bill also.

I dont imagine there are many people who give a false address for a voluntary tax registration as unless the address is correct you will never receive their correspondence (withholding tax refunds, in my case).

[NanLaew]

Can you tell me what your Revenue Office accepts as your Thai residential address? Also, what proof do they seek for that residential address?

I think mine (Jomtien) just copied my address from the back of my Thai driving license. Maybe I took a utility bill also.

I dont imagine there are many people who give a false address for a voluntary tax registration as unless the address is correct you will never receive their correspondence (withholding tax refunds, in my case).

There's a revenue office in Jomtien?

Are you a condo dweller? I reckon that's one (the only?) way to get a utility bill in your name. My Thai DL has the address taken from my Yellow Book which used as proof of address when I applied for the DL. Maybe most people rely on the Residence Letter from Immigration to support their Thai DL applications.

I am not about giving a false address. I am about giving a single address that satisfies both Immigration and Revenue. That's why I was asking Felt 35 as he is specifically commenting on Revenue Office stuff.

[KittenKong]

There's a revenue office in Jomtien?

Next door to Tony's Gym.