Fearing military, Pattaya rushes to eradicate sin

[EnglishJohn]

The problem is that as soon as the military give power back to the normal Thai's, you can be sure they will take everything back the way it was.

Not enough profit in honest work for them.

[Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere]

Well Well Hell's Bells.

[janpharma]

Whoops!....Will they close down all the resorts in Isaan too?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

It would seem that visible overt street sex workers are the target and not anything behind doors.

Ya, I'd say that is correct. From the police guy's comments in the OP article, he seem to equate "all prostitution" with beach road street walkers and ladyboys in particular.

Obviously, the police guy seems to be of the opinion that what goes on in bars and various other establishments (massage shops, karaoke, etc etc.) all over Pattaya is some entirely different kind of activity.

[pjmansions]

again another rash decision without thinkings through Pattaya has been a sin city since it became a R&R location during the Vietnam war. Many people go to Pattaya for the nigh life take that away and many households in the north east will have serious financial problems especially because of the poor rice prices at the moment

Take the nightlife away and many tourists stop coming. okay you can say we don't really need this kind of tourist but take away the night life and what are you left with a shit hole that happens to be by the sea

And if you start on the Farang bars don't forget every Thai karaoke bar and discotheque

[Deli]

Hands off bitch road ! I like it as it is, who doesn't want to see it, can easily avoid it by night.

Why not giving Pattaya a special status like Las Vegas or Sun City have ? Make even gambling legal in it;'s borders, built Casinos and cash a hell a lot of taxes to feed the hungry and people who need social assistance an pension. Probably too much westernized, the idea...

[OldSalty]

I think that it is very strange that an article about cleaning up the sex industry in Pattaya is published in the Phuket News and not in one of our local Pattaya papers. Are they gutless here or themselves too much involved in the sex industry?

I am surprised that nobody so far came up with the idea of arresting and fining the customers (more money-bigger fines) as it is done in some states of the country with the highest moral standards of the world, but maybe they are coming up with that a bit later. After the arrest, take a photo, put it in the paper and Good Bye tourist industry.

[pattjock]

Why try to turn Pattaya into a family holiday place?????????????

At the moment Pattaya is the number one adult play ground in the world and make a lot of money on this reputation.

If you turn Pattaya into a Family destination you will have to compete with 100,000's other destinations with cleaner water, better beaches and better infrastructure. Pattaya would be far down on the list in this category and would soon decay to a crime ridden ghetto for the extreme budget family tourist

[mic59]

Some parts of Soi 6 could definitely do with a stronger hand but how far do they intend to go? People go to Pattaya for a good time and that often involves going back to your room with a bar girl or freelancer. I never saw it stuck in your face, though and I find it difficult to see the objection. They have other attractions such as golfcourses, shows and ex-pat food but these will not draw tourists to Pattaya on their own. You can get most of these things in other parts of Thailand at a much lesser price.

[tominbkk]

What would be left if all the hookers were removed? It would be like sugar free cotton candy.

[Likener1]

"Fearing Military"

Why ?

The big issues that need to be addressed are not a few Lady Boys and pickpockets, the latter being the job of the police anyway so any "crackdown" on them is merely an admission of previous failure.

Bring in the military and then the real crooks will be purged, not the few very minor players.

Patpong, Nana, Soi Cowboy, Bangla Road are all still pretty much as they were before as far as " adult" entertainment is concerned so why fear the military, from a customers and ordinary workers perspective.

Its only the big boys who fear it.

[OPG]

You know...the coup that occurred may actually be the thing Thailand needed. All in all, everything sounds great, but there's one major hurdle and that is the opposition party. Will they work together to clean up Thailand or will they go back to their old ways and try to eradicate the new government and start up with these ridiculous protests...time will tell.

On the matter of the story, like I said before, we've heard it all before, but now after reading this story and seeing how the government is acting towards specific situations, I believe they have a plan, but this plan surely has to be adjusted. They are going about it all wrong and the minimum resources they have to work with are all being mismanaged. Once again, put up more lights along Pattaya Beach; the street lane closest to the beach, section it off from the other 2 lanes and make it into a walking, running, skating and biking lane; allow small shop vendors to sell food and or clothing with the Mini-vans to sell alcohol along the entire stretch of the beach; put in children's sections along the beach area with sufficient light and have activities for children where they can take part if they want etc... It is stated that the beach is 2.7 km long...well, put 3 teams of 3 police offices to bike, walk or rollerblade along the beach and maintain order.

Believe me, this would point them in the right direction and the minimal investment to do the above, will save them a ton of money in the long run. As it is now, they are allocating funds in the wrong direction that will not make any difference whatsoever! Putting up the lights and allowing regulated activity along the beach area will run the prostitution away...too many lights and police walking around with families coming in to enjoy activities.

Let's see what happens.

[manarak]

it seems like the main goal is to avoid the army taking over, because that would probably destroy much of the dirty little business of Pattaya where many local officials have a stake in.

so they are looking to sacrifice some pawns, be tough on the ladyboys for the show and be stricter in enforcing rules that don't hurt business too much.

regarding street prostitution, I wonder what they are charging the arrested persons with besides loitering, because there is no other legal basis.

if they want really to clean up sin city, it would IMO be a big mistake. we all know what the city's main attraction point is.

let's hope all the prostitution crackdown thing is just lip service.

[manarak]

"Fearing Military"

Why ?

The big issues that need to be addressed are not a few Lady Boys and pickpockets, the latter being the job of the police anyway so any "crackdown" on them is merely an admission of previous failure.

Bring in the military and then the real crooks will be purged, not the few very minor players.

Patpong, Nana, Soi Cowboy, Bangla Road are all still pretty much as they were before as far as " adult" entertainment is concerned so why fear the military, from a customers and ordinary workers perspective.

Its only the big boys who fear it.

yes, absolutely.

this announcement is a diversion.

the big shots hope they will get off the hook if they sacrifice pawns.

[Mot Dang]

I don't believe it. Full stop.

The infrastructure behind the bar and entertainment industry in Pattaya is enormous. Take away the bars and the bar girls, hundreds of thousands of tourists will not come to Pattaya. The speed with which this would happen will be directly proportional to the speed at which the bars are closed. Think of the number of service industry's that will go under. Just to name a few, the restaurants, the ice suppliers, the fresh food suppliers, shops, the booze and soft drink suppliers. Hundreds upon hundreds of people indirectly employed by the entertainment industry. Hotels will be emptier than they are now.

Who will benefit ? The scuba dive industry, kite surfing, para gliding, speed boat, and jet ski industry. Who are they ? Those industries that have been in the news quiet recently. Right ? And who will replace the fleeing Pattaya tourist. If you think the Chinese invasion has already started, you haven't seen nothing yet baby. It has already been reported about current negotiations to increase Chinese tourism 3 fold next year alone. Worried about losing "Thainess" (sorry about bringing that up), this invasion will be a death knock.

This is another ill conceived plan. Pattaya can be cleaned up without eradicating the bar and entertainment industry. The police just have to have a well directed imagination,

Prostitution in China is widespread, pretty much every Hotel you stay in offers a "Service". So having no bars girls wouldnt stop the Chinese from coming to Pattaya. I'd say many long term ex-pats have settled down and stay in Pattaya because it is familiar and Farang Friendly , not for the bar girs

The people who will not come are the two week holidayers with 3 Grand in their pocket to spend on beer and birds. I wouldnt miss them but I reckon Bar owners , Retaurant owners and guest house owners will

[Mot Dang]

Sena Dave, you have missed the point or you don't know the current situation in Pattaya. Stop just reading about Thailand or Pattaya on the web, and come here. Who said that today's Chinese tourist visit bars ? That's the point, they don't. They will inherit Pattaya if the bars close and the falang pull out. Ever been on beach road at 7:30 in the morning ? Ten buses lined up disgorging hundreds of Chinese couples into speed boats to go where ever they go. All pushing and shoving, yelling, shouting, spitting. How much are they spending per capita ? Very little. But in an almighty group the powers to be are rubbing their hands together, envisaging "The New Pattaya". The Chinese in Pattaya don't drink, who cares.

[WhamBam]

Knowing What I do of Pattaya, it will be a dead and useless place if they do close down so many of the bars and Walking Street where these women work. Whatever the authorities say or think, Pattaya and sex are big attractions for very many people. The tourists in Pattaya do not go there for the temples and the beach.

[manarak]

Absolutely ridiculous article positioned between rampant propaganda and fantasy.

They are cleaning up prostitution ? which is the staple trade of the whole city but admit to the majority being lady boys, nonsense. These workers on the streets,both male and female are commonly called freelancers and are easy targets and as freelancers they contribute zero to the under the table income of the city administration and police force.

Prostitution is the core business in Pattaya and the majority or volume is within the bars and clubs and not on the street, however, these bars and clubs all have to pay in order to exist and free from harassment. I think that the administration and police force in Pattaya have found themselves between a rock and a hard place and as such have come up with this garbage in an attempt to try to look as if they are actually doing something positive. The only thing they are doing is attempting to protect the under table payments.

Yep...

the article is the result of trying to protect all these hirsute sunglassed tattooed multiple-amulet-wearers who operate all the scams, be it taxis, jet skis, etc.

Dear General,

We tourists and expats have little problems with bars and prostitution, except the relatively small amount of incidents with pickpockets and scammers and unfriendly streethookers.

the main problems in Pattaya are the following:

- youth gangs (SECURITY)

- pollution/cleanness/garbage disposal (ENVIRONMENT)

- congested roads, inadequate sidewalks, squatted parking facilities (TRAFFIC)

- scams (SECURITY)

- itinerant vendors and beggars are a minor annoyance (SECURITY)

- lack of recreation areas (ENVIRONMENT)

- no proper taxis available. yellow-blue are rip offs (TRAFFIC)

SECURITY

- multiply roadchecks at night to crackdown on youth gangs

- beef up security, be tougher with first time offenders for theft and violence

- fight scams by beefing up tourist police and introduce job rotation with other places, including for commanders)

- make a licence compulsory for itinerant vendors, enforce child labor rules against parants of underage "chewing gum" sellers

- remove beggars and transfer them into adequate state assistance structures, crackdown on beggar gangs and mafia

- a 23:00 curfew for unaccompanied persons under 18 is advisable

TRAFFIC

- regulate taxi fares

- no tour buses on beach road and second road

- baht buses be restricted to the left lane

- beach road turn into pattaya tai at walking street needs to be made a no-stop zone and controlled by a dedicated officer from 12:00 until approx. 03:00 every day

- get the vendors off the road, including motorcycle rentals and restrict motorcycle taxis to zones marked on the ground

- make a proper sidewalk on beach road city side

- remove the old telephone booths

- ban and enforce no parking on parts of the roads where traffic is heavy

ENVIRONMENT

- remove smelly trashbins, do a campaign against bad odour, use odorless trash containers in the city

- pattaya's beach water is dirty, as is jomtien's. there is probably nothing that can be done about it in the short run, but it is time to introduce environmental rules to improve the situation, for example by beginning to stop any waste waters from flowing into the sea.

- crackdown on litterbugs OF ANY NATIONALITY

- pattaya lacks recreation areas where people can go to relax. the beach front could be such an area, but it would need to be further enlarged and would need grass, trees, flowing water, and security concerns (lighting) make that difficult. So for example buy the land between soi 6 and pattaya klang and build a nice park there, with grass area, trees, roofed benches, include water fountains and shallow pools where people can dip in. don't forget maintenance. do not put up a gaint screen for public TV or movie viewing !!

Thank you for your attention!

P.S.

I want also to make a short list of regulations that I feel are not so helpful:

- why not let foreigners drive 125cc motorcycles and less with an international driving licence for cars?

- why not let pharmacies sell substances similar to viagra and valium OTC? a flagon of 100 paracetamol is much more dangerous (lethal)

- why enforce early closing hours on walking street?

- why not enforce the no driving after 18:00 rule on walking street and adjacent streets against motorcycle taxis?

- why do police officers not act against drivers running the red light but fine tourists who overstepped the red light stop marking by 15cm with the front wheel?

We foreigners have similar feelings for the police as the Thais do. We would like honest police which is effective against criminals and scammers, but instead what we often get is corrupt police doing not much against criminals and scammers, that selectively cracks down on secondary offenses, ladyboys seem to be a preferred target because nobody defends them.

Instead of targeting helpless prostitutes and businesses where no forced prostitution takes place, better please do target forced prostitution and human trafficking, not bars, massage places and night clubs.

[flyingsaucersarereal]

Nothing will change its just to get the army off there back so it looks like they are doing something.

[IAMSOBAD]

Three words...JET SKI MAFIA.

They hurt and threaten more people than prostitutes, which I thought didn't exist?

[wandasloan]

Good. These corrupt people will only act when someone stronger forces them too. Gotta love ot when the army cuts through the red tape and corruption and orders them to do their jobs!

For sure. Arresting thousands of corner drug dealers certainly cleaned up the drug problem.

.

[wandasloan]

The new Cromwell wants to eradicate prostitution, make Pattaya like other Thai towns.... prostitution is available in every town in Thailand, in case he didn't know. Perhaps reduce it by giving women choices? Things like enforcing child support on the deadbeat fathers? Having an educational system that actually graduates students with skills? End corruption by ultra rich which is built upon exploitation of everyone else? Maybe hire all the hookers to clean up the filth that seems to go unseen?

You mean they should do hard stuff? Why? Populism is a lot easier and nobody cares if you rough up and destroy the lives of a few thousand women doing it. Having a good education system would mean hurting teachers and civil servants. Can't have that when you can use your time to combat evil sex workers and get APPLAUSE from the teachers and civil servants.

All hail populism!

[Equalizer]

Yes i agree. The visible needs removing. A beach full of free lance pros is a big problem. Get rid. 6 foot tall lady boys blocking you on the road. Get rid. In fact anyone who leaves the confines of their place of work to stop you in the street. Get rid. I for one just do not like it. We know who you are, we know where you work. We are not stupid! We who have been here a long time know what the majority of the working girls do when they finish their shift. They gather in a group and arrive at one of the many cute young Thai boy hot spots dotted all over town. You know the ones! the little pretty boys with the jelled weirdo looking hair cuts. What are these guys? Yes male prostitutes. What do the girls go there for? Yes to bar fine them. So in hindsight it is the pretty boys who end up with your short time money. Amazing Thailand. In their defense they black out the bar and do not show case themselves in the street in general. You may get the odd advertising campaign where they all go around town in the back of a truck all bannered up advertising a new establishment. you know how it should be girls, you take a leaf out of their book and stop pestering people in the street.

Even the "visible" are OK as long as they are not aggresive, doing bag snatches or stand-overs. Lots of tourist DO come to look at the the ladyboys & hookers and say they have seen them. Touting and talking to the tourist people is ok as long as they are polite, have a smile & step back if the people don't want it. In Bangla Rd, Patong/Phuket, you see tourist couples stopping and talking to the Ladyboys sometimes for several minutes. It is some peoples' idea of living vicariously. I personally know people who come to Phuket regularly (2-3 times a year) & do little more, night after night. Not your idea of fun? Not mine either, but differnt strokes etc. I wandered around with them one night & saw others doing the same thing (and a hell of a lot of other hilarious things, besides.) Interesting to do one night! People watch. There no more interesting people to watch than those you will see in Walking street, Soi 6 or Bangla road, Patong.

I did not mean to lock them away so people can not see them. Simply entertain the people who want to come and sit and chat with them instead of blocking you and taking your space without an invite.

[Jbax]

They need to clean up the beaches and make a serious effort to limit pollution. I'd also like to see every crooked jet ski rental outfit shut down.

[wandasloan]

They need to clean up the beaches and make a serious effort to limit pollution. I'd also like to see every crooked jet ski rental outfit shut down.

You're not wrong. The problem is numbers. The unpleasant truth is that in order to fill up hotels and restaurants and tour boats, the number of people required is far greater than sustainable conservation. You can't limit pollution and have clean beaches AND keep the current hotels and other businesses going. So it's not a matter of getting out there with rakes and trash bags, it's far more deeply rooted and - I would say - frankly impossible to solve.

I think one thing everyone has missed, here and in Pattaya threads for decades, is that visitors come to Pattaya (repeatedly) and go away and they're satisfied. They're not turned out, turned off or unhappy. The way things are seems quite acceptable to foreign and Thai tourists alike. They flock to Pattaya - sex tourists, families, Chinese groups, Thais by the tens of thousands. They all seem to like it quite a lot. It would be great to make the jet-ski people honest, that would be even better, but by and large people don't complain about Pattaya much, and quite enjoy their few hours or few days in the place.

For the record, I don't like Pattaya and haven't been there for a couple of years, and if I miss it for a few more, I'd be happy. But I'm just noting.

.

[PJcm]

Is it time to Invest in Ban Chang?

Please don't come North to Chiang Mai. Rumor here has it and I stress it's a RUMOR, Loy Kroc bars to be shut down with no renewals for beer and alcohol licensees unless you have a hotel or a restaurant and all must be in the VAT system and restaurants receipts must be at least 70% or gross revenue

[brewsterbudgen]

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Any Walking Street bar that allows prositution to take place on the premises is asking for trouble. That's why the barfine was invented. All perfectly legal and a nice Thai solution.

I guess you've not been around long but not that many years ago it was the norm for dens of ill repute to offer onsite rooms. If my memory serves me correctly, the problems which led to this being phased out were changes made during Thaksin's first official leadership.

The barfine has nothing to do with either. It was notionally invented to compensate the business for the loss of the girl (her salary, inability to attract new customers etc.) when she was servicing her customer. That illusion was broken permanently in the early to mid 2000s as barfines rose to much higher levels. If you ever meet some of the few remaining souls from who arrived during the Vietnam era and just afterwards, they will recount the complete lack of barfines.

I've only been here 9 years, but I can assure you that these days very few mainstream gogos openly offer onsite rooms. The raid on Coyote Agogo around 5 years ago, and its tragic outcome, was a clear warning. The history of the barfine is interesting, but these days it serves nicely as a way of avoiding the bar offering prostitution services.

The article clearly refers to "street prostitution". The gogo bars, massage parlours and the punters can rest easy.

[Tony125]

And they wonder why tourism is down. Close clubs early , the fomer curfew and visa regs changing weekly, possibly being banned for overstays , tourists confused on wether they can enter with visa exmption or will hvae problems Nothing simple.

[NativeSon360]

[petercool]

a few defamatory posts removed