Myth of arctic meltdown

[Maestro]

Myth of arctic meltdown: Stunning satellite images show summer ice cap is thicker and covers 1.7million square kilometres MORE than 2 years ago...despite Al Gore's prediction it would be ICE-FREE by now

• Seven years after former US Vice-President Al Gore's warning, Arctic ice cap has expanded for second year in row
• An area twice the size of Alaska - America's biggest state - was open water two years ago and is now covered in ice
• These satellite images taken from University of Illinois's Cryosphere project show ice has become more concentrated

By DAVID ROSE FOR THE MAIL ON SUNDAY

PUBLISHED: 22:04 GMT, 30 August 2014 | UPDATED: 08:56 GMT, 31 August 2014

The speech by former US Vice-President Al Gore was apocalyptic. ‘The North Polar ice cap is falling off a cliff,’ he said. ‘It could be completely gone in summer in as little as seven years. Seven years from now.’

Those comments came in 2007 as Mr Gore accepted the Nobel Peace Prize for his campaigning on climate change.

But seven years after his warning, The Mail on Sunday can reveal that, far from vanishing, the Arctic ice cap has expanded for the second year in succession – with a surge, depending on how you measure it, of between 43 and 63 per cent since 2012.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2738653/Stunning-satellite-images-summer-ice-cap-thicker-covers-1-7million-square-kilometres-MORE-2-years-ago-despite-Al-Gore-s-prediction-ICE-FREE-now.html

-- Mail Online 2014-08-30

[Soutpeel]

US politians lying ?... never... ....suggest he does the honourable thing gives his Nobel prize back....how much money has he made out of this myth ?

[mikehock]

US politians lying ?... never... ....suggest he does the honourable thing gives his Nobel prize back....how much money has he made out of this myth ?

During an interview with Wolf Blitzer on CNN on March 9 1999 Al Gore said " During my service in the United States Congress I took the initiative on creating the Internet"

Actually the Internet was already created and being used prior to his election to Congress.

Another brilliant remark Al Gore attacking President Bush in 1992

"A zebra does not change its spots"

And I'm sure there are many more gems from this man.

.

[Soutpeel]

US politians lying ?... never... ....suggest he does the honourable thing gives his Nobel prize back....how much money has he made out of this myth ?

During an interview with Wolf Blitzer on CNN on March 9 1999 Al Gore said " During my service in the United States Congress I took the initiative on creating the Internet"

Actually the Internet was already created and being used prior to his election to Congress.

Another brilliant remark Al Gore attacking President Bush in 1992

"A zebra does not change its spots"

And I'm sure there are many more gems from this man.

.

So we not really accusing him of being a liar, just a baffoon/moron or village idiot then ?

[ukrules]

During the last ice age the world was covered with ice, now it's not, a lot of it melted. At some point in the future there will be another ice age.

This is cyclical on a geologic timescale (think every 100,000 years) , to think that people can influence this process is idiocy.

We should be grateful it's not going the other way - or is it - it would be very hard to tell without waiting 1000 years.

[kaorop]

During the last ice age the world was covered with ice, now it's not, a lot of it melted. At some point in the future there will be another ice age.

This is cyclical on a geologic timescale (think every 100,000 years) , to think that people can influence this process is idiocy.

We should be grateful it's not going the other way - or is it - it would be very hard to tell without waiting 1000 years.

Yes all those 1000's of scientist who have studied these thing for years are complete idiots and are lying,

and of course you would have Phd in the subjects and have spent your entire life working in that field to make your

"informed" pov?

555555 please stop 5555 its too funny,

you're in the same group as the world is flat and everything revolves around the earth.

mentioning a 2 year increase as an indication of long term directions is a joke,

you yourself acknowledge the time frames involved.

[mikehock]

A High Court judge in London UK. said that distribution of Al Gore's movie "An Inconvenient Truth" would have been an unlawful contravention of an Act of Parliament prohibiting the political indoctrination of children had it not been for the sending of a corrected guidance note to all English secondary schools identifying numerous errors in the movie and that the movie did not represent mainstream scientific opinion.

Obviously Gore has made a career of lying about climate change .

Liar buffoon moron village idiot..

I guess all of the above

[Andyfarquar]

Honestly I can't get excited by the growth of ice in the Arctic since it hardly affects sea levels being so shallow and floating on the surface of the sea. I'm more concerned with the reduction in ice at the other pole, where the average thickness is 1000 times that of the Arctic and is melting at an alarming rate and still accelerating. It's hard to prove the science because some people are dedicated to a denial philosophy or just hope that ice melt is a conspiracy theory. I don't think we are responsible for all of the climate change but I can't deny it's happening and that we might be accelerating it. The seas have been rising for thousands of years but that rise is also accelerating, currently at 3mm per year overall but historically it was only rising by about 1mm per year for thousands of years. Then between 1950 and 1990 there was a sudden acceleration which now has reached over 3mm per year. This flies in the face of reports that the world has been cooling recently..... Also there is considerable evidence of glacial reduction and increased volcanic activity attributed to the lessening weight of ice on the Earth's crust.

[partington]

The Daily Mail produces another unbiased, scientifically literate news article, aimed at the well informed intelligentsia that make up most of their readership.

For some reason the idiots that write and run this newspaper have decided that the 99% of the world's scientists who agree about climate changes are wrong. However the opinions of a load of barely educated journalists on any scientific topic don't add up to much. They aim squarely at the target audience of people whose opinions are determined by prejudice rather than knowledge.

In fact Al Gore mentioned two studies, one of which gave a prediction of twenty two years, and one seven. All scientists will know for a fact without reading either study that neither guaranteed that the events described would happen in exactly the times stated and both will have given a likely range, plus a probability assessment of how likely the event would be to happen within the time frame mentioned. This is how scientific papers are written.

The fact that during his speech Gore acknowledged the existence of a time frame within which the events he described are likely to happen entirely negates the "point" of this dreadful article, but the last thing the Daily Mail would want to do is confuse people with factual reporting.

Extract from Nobel Acceptance speech:

"Last September 21, as the Northern Hemisphere tilted away from the sun, scientists reported with unprecedented distress that the North Polar ice cap is "falling off a cliff." One study estimated that it could be completely gone during summer in less than 22 years. Another new study, to be presented by U.S. Navy researchers later this week, warns it could happen in as little as 7 years.

Seven years from now."

http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/laureates/2007/gore-lecture_en.html

[Credo]

Al Gore is an exceptional and great man. He has managed to identify this profound problem of global warming and has been able to solve it and reverse the problem in a very, very short period of time.

[lungbing]

All those scientists whose very jobs depend on them persuading us there is such a problem.

[Soutpeel]

mentioning a 2 year increase as an indication of long term directions is a joke,

you yourself acknowledge the time frames involved.

I for one am very glad the ice is increasing, roll on arctic duck hunting season, time to get the Purdys out of storage

maybe a Polar bear or two as well...

[GentlemanJim]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

During the last ice age the world was covered with ice, now it's not, a lot of it melted. At some point in the future there will be another ice age.

This is cyclical on a geologic timescale (think every 100,000 years) , to think that people can influence this process is idiocy.

We should be grateful it's not going the other way - or is it - it would be very hard to tell without waiting 1000 years.

Yes all those 1000's of scientist who have studied these thing for years are complete idiots and are lying,
and of course you would have Phd in the subjects and have spent your entire life working in that field to make your
"informed" pov?

555555 please stop 5555 its too funny,

you're in the same group as the world is flat and everything revolves around the earth.

mentioning a 2 year increase as an indication of long term directions is a joke,
you yourself acknowledge the time frames involved.

Au Contraire, ukrules is completely correct.

Al Gore, cares not for his 'Nobel Peace Prize' what is important to him and his partners are the countless billions of dollars his company has made in managing much of the global carbon credits system where they have been trading these 'made up' credits as any other commodity. What he did is absolutely scandalous and corrupt.

The chair of the UN IPCC Rajendra K. Pachaur is a complete fraud and also corrupt. he continually manipulated data and published papers without any form of peer review, and coincidently, one of his brothers in a family related business in India has made an absolute fortune form the Global warming/Carbon Credit system. Pachaur is not contrary to popular belief a global warming scientist or specialist, he is an Indian Train Engineer.

The sooner people wake up and use their God given intelligence the better. Stop believing Governments and organisations who are trying to milk you for everything you have.

Some FACTS Carbon Dioxide makes up 0.04% of our atmosphere!! It is a trace element. Even if we went ahead and doubled it or trebled it, it would still be a trace element and would have NO EFFECT on current climatic conditions. I can show you graphs in large scale of CO2 doubling and it will scare your ass off, BUT if you look at the graphs on the correct scale and in perspective, this really is nothing. It is a fraction of a fraction of a percentage.

The concept of Anthopogenic Global Warming is even more ridiculous. Shipping accounts for 5 times more CO2 emissions than aircraft, but there is not that much money to be made from taxing passengers on ships, so what shall we do? I know, lets terrorise the world into believing that aircraft travel is bad for the planet and every passenger must pay a 'tax' to off-set their carbon foot print. 'They' have made hundreds of billions world-wide. We now use the 'carbon terror' to stop third world countries like Africa producing electricity via coal powered stations - and because they are not producing then their Carbon credits can be sold to places like - the US. The US then does not have to reduce carbon emissions because it has bought the quota Africa should use.

It makes me so mad that people believe this crap without actually thinking about it and checking it.

I posted satellite images on here 4 years ago that showed that Polar ice caps were growing (In the South in particular - enormously).

AGW is the biggest con since JC. I believe we have a lot to do to take care of our planet in terms of pollution and chemicals we are poisoning her with, BUT AGW is a complete fabrication, and those scientists that would not back it in the early days, faced being ostracised from their peer group, which meant no more grants, no more study. There are now a gazzillion scientists who have signed up to say AGW is a myth.

Governments keep you where they want you by terrorising you, whether they want your money for the 'war on terror' whether they want to increase police presence and surveillance, or whether it is Global Warming. If they can scare you, they can subdue you and make you pay for stuff that is not required and make you comply with their ever increasing demands. Wake up people!! There is a really large yellow hot thing up there in the sky. That and the earth go through certain cycles and as a result our planet warms up and cools down and there is NOTHING we can do about it which ever way it moves.

Edited August 31, 2014 by GentlemanJim

[Ulysses G.]

Al Gore is an exceptional and great man. He has managed to identify this profound problem of global warming and has been able to solve it and reverse the problem in a very, very short period of time.

In between inventing the Internet. We are so lucky to have him.

[Credo]

Al Gore is an exceptional and great man. He has managed to identify this profound problem of global warming and has been able to solve it and reverse the problem in a very, very short period of time.

In between inventing the Internet. We are so lucky to have him.

And to think I had almost forgotten about that achievement. Thanks for reminding me.

[Johpa]

I am no political fan of Al Gore, he is far too conservative for my tastes. But his poorly phrased quote almost always taken out of context, "I took the initiative in creating the Internet", should not diminish his significant contribution in fostering both the technology of the Internet and the openness of the Internet that we enjoy today. He actually did take the political initiative.

I shall not waste my time replying to the denier crowd that will inevitably be attracted to this thread.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Gore_and_information_technology

[Somtamnication]

I trust the pic of the lost polar bear on a small iceberg floating away, than Gore or anyone else.

[coma]

Maybe the lads from Myth Busters could do a segment on the Arctic cap just to be really sure that this myth is indeed "BUSTED".

[Seastallion]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

During the last ice age the world was covered with ice, now it's not, a lot of it melted. At some point in the future there will be another ice age.

This is cyclical on a geologic timescale (think every 100,000 years) , to think that people can influence this process is idiocy.

We should be grateful it's not going the other way - or is it - it would be very hard to tell without waiting 1000 years.

Yes all those 1000's of scientist who have studied these thing for years are complete idiots and are lying,

and of course you would have Phd in the subjects and have spent your entire life working in that field to make your

"informed" pov?

555555 please stop 5555 its too funny,

you're in the same group as the world is flat and everything revolves around the earth.

mentioning a 2 year increase as an indication of long term directions is a joke,

you yourself acknowledge the time frames involved.

Au Contraire, ukrules is completely correct.

Al Gore, cares not for his 'Nobel Peace Prize' what is important to him and his partners are the countless billions of dollars his company has made in managing much of the global carbon credits system where they have been trading these 'made up' credits as any other commodity. What he did is absolutely scandalous and corrupt.

The chair of the UN IPCC Rajendra K. Pachaur is a complete fraud and also corrupt. he continually manipulated data and published papers without any form of peer review, and coincidently, one of his brothers in a family related business in India has made an absolute fortune form the Global warming/Carbon Credit system. Pachaur is not contrary to popular belief a global warming scientist or specialist, he is an Indian Train Engineer.

The sooner people wake up and use their God given intelligence the better. Stop believing Governments and organisations who are trying to milk you for everything you have.

Some FACTS Carbon Dioxide makes up 0.04% of our atmosphere!! It is a trace element. Even if we went ahead and doubled it or trebled it, it would still be a trace element and would have NO EFFECT on current climatic conditions. I can show you graphs in large scale of CO2 doubling and it will scare your ass off, BUT if you look at the graphs on the correct scale and in perspective, this really is nothing. It is a fraction of a fraction of a percentage.

The concept of Anthopogenic Global Warming is even more ridiculous. Shipping accounts for 5 times more CO2 emissions than aircraft, but there is not that much money to be made from taxing passengers on ships, so what shall we do? I know, lets terrorise the world into believing that aircraft travel is bad for the planet and every passenger must pay a 'tax' to off-set their carbon foot print. 'They' have made hundreds of billions world-wide. We now use the 'carbon terror' to stop third world countries like Africa producing electricity via coal powered stations - and because they are not producing then their Carbon credits can be sold to places like - the US. The US then does not have to reduce carbon emissions because it has bought the quota Africa should use.

It makes me so mad that people believe this crap without actually thinking about it and checking it.

I posted satellite images on here 4 years ago that showed that Polar ice caps were growing (In the South in particular - enormously).

AGW is the biggest con since JC. I believe we have a lot to do to take care of our planet in terms of pollution and chemicals we are poisoning her with, BUT AGW is a complete fabrication, and those scientists that would not back it in the early days, faced being ostracised from their peer group, which meant no more grants, no more study. There are now a gazzillion scientists who have signed up to say AGW is a myth.

Governments keep you where they want you by terrorising you, whether they want your money for the 'war on terror' whether they want to increase police presence and surveillance, or whether it is Global Warming. If they can scare you, they can subdue you and make you pay for stuff that is not required and make you comply with their ever increasing demands. Wake up people!! There is a really large yellow hot thing up there in the sky. That and the earth go through certain cycles and as a result our planet warms up and cools down and there is NOTHING we can do about it which ever way it moves.

Some of your facts are misleading and are detrimental in isolation. You need to consider a bigger reality.

Take your aircraft vs shipping fact. Indeed shipping has a far larger carbon footprint than aircraft. But take carbon footprint and tonnes of cargo/passengers together, and shipping produces significantly less carbon per tonne of goods/passengers moved. Shipping is far more efficient in carbon emission terms, thus encourage shipping and discourage flight.

FACT, CO2 is not a trace element as you have asserted. It is not even an element. Carbon is an element and far from being "trace", in fact it is one of the most common elements.

Your figure of CO2 existing in the atmosphere at 0.04% is correct. The important fact to look at is that "An estimated 30–40% of the carbon dioxide released by humans into the atmosphere dissolves into oceans, rivers and lakes." . Ocean acidification is occurring at an alarming rate. Ocean acidification will result in entire ecosystems breaking down.

It is also true that warming and cooling of the earth are natural cycles...but we have accelerated the warming. There is more money to be made with the status quo. Big Money does not want AGW to gain traction because then Big Money will lose some of it's revenues and will thus try to derail counter measures.

THAT is what is scary.

[Robby nz]

It is also true that warming and cooling of the earth are natural cycles...but we have accelerated the warming.

Hope I am forgiven for picking a sentence out of your post but that is what I want to reply to.

How do you or anyone else know that man has accelerated the natural cycle of warming ?

It would seem we are in the warming stage between ice ages and nobody knows how fast or slow the planet warmed between previous ice ages so there is no indication of what speed things will warm at.

It is unlikely that warming will be even, but will fluctuate over years, tens or hundreds of years.

Indeed nobody knows how hot it will get or how hot it got last time round.

There are fossil trees in the far north of Canada the USR and Antarctica and fossil sea shells in some very high places, some put this down to continental drift or volcanic uplift others believe in a warm planet overall and high sea levels.

What we do know is that there has been and still is a great deal of money being made from the whole speculation and that the carbon credit thing is one great big con.

[beechguy]

During the last ice age the world was covered with ice, now it's not, a lot of it melted. At some point in the future there will be another ice age.

This is cyclical on a geologic timescale (think every 100,000 years) , to think that people can influence this process is idiocy.

We should be grateful it's not going the other way - or is it - it would be very hard to tell without waiting 1000 years.

Yes all those 1000's of scientist who have studied these thing for years are complete idiots and are lying,

and of course you would have Phd in the subjects and have spent your entire life working in that field to make your

"informed" pov?

555555 please stop 5555 its too funny,

you're in the same group as the world is flat and everything revolves around the earth.

mentioning a 2 year increase as an indication of long term directions is a joke,

you yourself acknowledge the time frames involved.

True that some of us do not have Phd's, but many of us are old enough to remember front pages, and articles, proclaiming we were headed for an ice age.

So excuse us, if we do not have so much confidence in the current crop of scientists.

[Jdietz]

Maybe this graph will put things in perspective:

[waynethor]

After it was published, many scientists attacked Al's An Inconvenient Truth, saying it was more like a bunch of false facts conveniently altered to suit Al's fantasy. The Nobel people made asses of themselves by giving this garbage an award. I think he also got an academy award for it. but those idiots have shown many times that there is no connection between the awards they give and anything to do with quality.

[ozsamurai]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

All those scientists whose very jobs depend on them persuading us there is such a problem.

Edited September 1, 2014 by ozsamurai

[metisdead]

A post containing inflammatory insults has been removed as well as the replies.

[Chicog]

I look forward to getting the temperature figures for my part of the world once summer is complete, because I have a feeling they are easily going to be the hottest on record.

[Seastallion]

It is also true that warming and cooling of the earth are natural cycles...but we have accelerated the warming.

Hope I am forgiven for picking a sentence out of your post but that is what I want to reply to.

How do you or anyone else know that man has accelerated the natural cycle of warming ?

It would seem we are in the warming stage between ice ages and nobody knows how fast or slow the planet warmed between previous ice ages so there is no indication of what speed things will warm at.

It is unlikely that warming will be even, but will fluctuate over years, tens or hundreds of years.

Indeed nobody knows how hot it will get or how hot it got last time round.

There are fossil trees in the far north of Canada the USR and Antarctica and fossil sea shells in some very high places, some put this down to continental drift or volcanic uplift others believe in a warm planet overall and high sea levels.

What we do know is that there has been and still is a great deal of money being made from the whole speculation and that the carbon credit thing is one great big con.

Kia ora Robby. I have no problem with you quoting one sentence in context as you have done. Perhaps we don't know for sure, but the evidence strongly suggests it. Is it not better to err on the side of caution (when it comes to the potential vital health of the planet)?

I believe the money scams being reaped on the AGW side are largely not scams but genuine necessary actions to get something done about global warming, and I believe that there is "Big Money" standing to lose billions if the AGW belief takes a firm hold. Fortunately there are many altruistic people on the AWG side of the divide. I wonder how many altruistic people are on the no AWG side (in terms of movers and shakers)?

[thaibeachlovers]

During the last ice age the world was covered with ice, now it's not, a lot of it melted. At some point in the future there will be another ice age.

This is cyclical on a geologic timescale (think every 100,000 years) , to think that people can influence this process is idiocy.

We should be grateful it's not going the other way - or is it - it would be very hard to tell without waiting 1000 years.

Yes all those 1000's of scientist who have studied these thing for years are complete idiots and are lying,

and of course you would have Phd in the subjects and have spent your entire life working in that field to make your

"informed" pov?

555555 please stop 5555 its too funny,

you're in the same group as the world is flat and everything revolves around the earth.

mentioning a 2 year increase as an indication of long term directions is a joke,

you yourself acknowledge the time frames involved.

<all those 1000's of scientist who have studied these thing for years are complete idiots and are lying,>

I've met lots of scientists and yes, some of them are idiots, and some of them are complete idiots.

I believe anyone that says the climate is changing, but I don't believe anyone that says we can do anything about it.

[thaibeachlovers]

It is also true that warming and cooling of the earth are natural cycles...but we have accelerated the warming.

Hope I am forgiven for picking a sentence out of your post but that is what I want to reply to.

How do you or anyone else know that man has accelerated the natural cycle of warming ?

It would seem we are in the warming stage between ice ages and nobody knows how fast or slow the planet warmed between previous ice ages so there is no indication of what speed things will warm at.

It is unlikely that warming will be even, but will fluctuate over years, tens or hundreds of years.

Indeed nobody knows how hot it will get or how hot it got last time round.

There are fossil trees in the far north of Canada the USR and Antarctica and fossil sea shells in some very high places, some put this down to continental drift or volcanic uplift others believe in a warm planet overall and high sea levels.

What we do know is that there has been and still is a great deal of money being made from the whole speculation and that the carbon credit thing is one great big con.

Kia ora Robby. I have no problem with you quoting one sentence in context as you have done. Perhaps we don't know for sure, but the evidence strongly suggests it. Is it not better to err on the side of caution (when it comes to the potential vital health of the planet)?

I believe the money scams being reaped on the AGW side are largely not scams but genuine necessary actions to get something done about global warming, and I believe that there is "Big Money" standing to lose billions if the AGW belief takes a firm hold. Fortunately there are many altruistic people on the AWG side of the divide. I wonder how many altruistic people are on the no AWG side (in terms of movers and shakers)?

<when it comes to the potential vital health of the planet)?>

The planet will be fine, it's just humans that are frakked, and deservedly so, given the attrocities they have visited on the planet.

[Maestro]

15 October 2014 Last updated at 00:33 GM

Owen Paterson in 'lights out' warning over emissions target

The government's energy policy will "fail to keep the lights on", the former environment secretary is expected to say.

Owen Paterson will also say climate change forecasts have been "consistently and wildly exaggerated".

The Conservative MP, replaced in July's ministerial reshuffle, will criticise "blind adhesion" to emissions targets.

The 2008 Climate Change Act aims to reduce the UK's greenhouse gas emissions by at least 80% by 2050.

Read more: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-29623648

-- BBC 2014-10-15