Just moved back to the states after 5 years. Sticker shock.

[mesquite]

The home in question is not in West Phoenix...the streets start on the east side of Central Ave, and count up. So technically it is East, but so close to Central, it is actually called "Midtown," and is home to one of the top private golf courses in the US, which would still host the Phoenix open, but there was just not enough parking for the crowds that exceed 120,000. That home is a 10 minute walk to the 3 billion dollar light rail system....anyways, I held it for almost exactly two years, and sold it myself for 1.4 million thb, and had the buyer paying me 8% until he paid me off, 9 months later. During my stay there, I made 580 thb per hour part time, which isn't perfect...but no rent to pay.....no debt.

Sedona is a tourist trap, pure and simple, quite beautiful..ok to visit, but people who relocate there find themselves in horrible employment predicaments. I also lived on the river in Bullhead City....bought a furnished condo from a dead man's kids for 26,000 usd, and worked a a part time teacher; full time gambler....just about the white trash capital of the free world.

Flagstaff is all style, no substance...nice university for those who can't get into U of A or ASU....but terrible wages and high rent. Santa Cruz County is probably the best, with about a perfect elevation of 4000 ft +/-. No A/c needed, and still plenty warm. Duty free shopping at the border, too. Very low food prices down there...saw red grapes at 35 thb per KG a few months ago. See what they have to say about that at Wororat Market.

Really? ASU and U of A are somewhat selective now? Things change I guess. There was a time when any HS graduate in the US could get into ASU or U of A.

Don't the Mexican drug cartels run Santa Cruz county? Isn't this the area where the Governor asked Obama for federal help (as in law enforcement officers) to drive the cartel out of the National Forest and back to Mexico, but got "Americans Keep Out" signs instead?

Acceptance rate at U of A, 77%........ASU, 80%....NAU, 91%.....UNLV, 88.2%......UC Boulder 88%....Drug Cartels? it would be singular, as in "cartel." And yes, Obama has done a disgraceful job of securing the border, but the high concentration of Law Enforcement in Nogales give it very safe streets.....show me one case of a tourist getting robbed in Nogales, Arizona and it is one of the top five tourist destinations in the state.

front yard.....moonrise

back yard

front yard

Yes, having gone to grade school and beyond, in southern Arizona BTW, but not Nogales, I am aware that the singular of "cartels" is "cartel." However the news reports I read indicate cartels, plural, run southern Arizona. That's why I went with "cartels," though I did make a typo on the second occurrence of the word.

Nice views from the house.

[supaprik]

OP you lived in thailand did you work in thailand and earn thai wages?

Because of the exchange rates between the USD and bht the costs would seem much cheaper for you.

I got by on about 40,000-50,000 baht a month from my internet biz. I had TONS of money for fun. There was never a dull night. I lived like a Thai and blew the rest on vice. Could never do that here.

Not to sure about that..Last time I was in the states I didnt see anything "vice wise"that I would have spent my hard earned on, they were mostly ugly.fat and loud mouthed..

[thailiketoo]

OP you lived in thailand did you work in thailand and earn thai wages?

Because of the exchange rates between the USD and bht the costs would seem much cheaper for you.

I got by on about 40,000-50,000 baht a month from my internet biz. I had TONS of money for fun. There was never a dull night. I lived like a Thai and blew the rest on vice. Could never do that here.

Not to sure about that..Last time I was in the states I didnt see anything "vice wise"that I would have spent my hard earned on, they were mostly ugly.fat and loud mouthed..

Dr. Zyad Kivarkis Younan insists he is not the wild animal you have come to think he is… A NJ Cardiologist is refusing to pay an outstanding credit card bill of $135 000 that he purportedly incurred on four separate occasions at NYC strip club, Scores.

[Thai at Heart]

-snip- Their garbage collection bills and power bills would make your eyes water compared to here.

It's not the garbage collection in the US. It's the safe, proper handling of the garbage after they pick it up that costs money.

There's a news item running here right now about how horrid and polluting, even of ground water not to mention air, that the landfills are in Thailand.

In the US all would be sorted into recyclables, much would be burned cleanly, and what couldn't be burned would be put into an engineered landfill that was sealed so it couldn't leak into ground water. As new garbage was put into it it would immediately be covered by earth to assure no air pollution or fires.

Have you seen a velocity separator? I'll bet Thailand hasn't.

Power bills. First, the Thai government subsidizes them meaning you pay for them somewhere else, perhaps in the price of cheese or VAT or import taxes or other taxes. Next the people up North such as near Lampang are getting blasted with pollution from coal burning. In the US all the would come out of the "smoke stacks" would be steam.

If you want to pay 3rd world prices and live literally in filth that's hazardous to your health, up to you. I don't think you're living like a Thai in the US or your costs would be similar. I'm convince the US is the cheapest 1st world country there is to live in. Maybe by a wide margin.

That's only because the USA is eleventy bazillion in debt with taxes that are too low to pay the real cost of living.

[craigt3365]

The home in question is not in West Phoenix...the streets start on the east side of Central Ave, and count up. So technically it is East, but so close to Central, it is actually called "Midtown," and is home to one of the top private golf courses in the US, which would still host the Phoenix open, but there was just not enough parking for the crowds that exceed 120,000. That home is a 10 minute walk to the 3 billion dollar light rail system....anyways, I held it for almost exactly two years, and sold it myself for 1.4 million thb, and had the buyer paying me 8% until he paid me off, 9 months later. During my stay there, I made 580 thb per hour part time, which isn't perfect...but no rent to pay.....no debt.

Sedona is a tourist trap, pure and simple, quite beautiful..ok to visit, but people who relocate there find themselves in horrible employment predicaments. I also lived on the river in Bullhead City....bought a furnished condo from a dead man's kids for 26,000 usd, and worked a a part time teacher; full time gambler....just about the white trash capital of the free world.

Flagstaff is all style, no substance...nice university for those who can't get into U of A or ASU....but terrible wages and high rent. Santa Cruz County is probably the best, with about a perfect elevation of 4000 ft +/-. No A/c needed, and still plenty warm. Duty free shopping at the border, too. Very low food prices down there...saw red grapes at 35 thb per KG a few months ago. See what they have to say about that at Wororat Market.

Hmmm....Sedona made it as #9 for best small cities in the list below. To each his own. Very touristy on the weekends, but quiet during the week. And easy to get away from the crowds. Avoid downtown and the major tourist sites. Definitely not a place to go for work, unless you are a wait staff! LOL But pretty good year round weather.

http://www.cntraveler.com/galleries/2014-07-22/10-best-small-cities-and-where-to-stay/2

I'd hardly consider Bullhead City the white trash capital of the US. I've spent a fair amount of time there in the RV parks. Motorhome backed up to the river, sitting under the awning watching the boats go by. Quite nice. Plenty of other places would qualify better. Blythe? 5555

As for Flag, it's a beautiful city. Wonderful in the summer, but cold in the winter, so not for me unless as a summer home. Great small college town. Wonderful downtown area. Rent is high and for good reason. It's a highly desirable place. Close to the Grand Canyon, Sedona, Lake Powell, and lots and lots of wonderful places to hike. My brother was in Canyon de Chelly a few weeks ago. Absolutely amazing place.

Where would you live in Santa Cruz county? Not Nogales. It's a horrible border town. All the other towns are super small. Just curious...I do love that area.

[FritsSikkink]

So we can conclude that while here, you lived wholly like a Thai?

No cheese or wine? No single malts or cream cheese? No Doritos? No rib-eyes? No bacon and sausage for breakfast? No tacos or burritos? All of which are still cheaper in the States.

Living "frugally" can be quite a yawn inducing existence.

I understand your sentiments, but me, I'm not interested in "getting by." I'd rather work hard and play hard. I've got five years here non-stop myself, and can't wait to go back, both to work at a very nice salary, and to eat, eat, eat.

It's all relevant.

I lived like a Thai but I had plenty of money for "entertainment". 40,000 baht a month goes much further in Thailand than here. There is a lot of cheap food in the US but it is very unhealthy as you already know. I personally prefer Thai food to farang food. I seldom paid more than 30 baht for a good meal in Pattaya or northern Thailand.

For 30 baht you get a meal, not a good one. Try a 3 star Michelin restaurant once.

[canarysun]

40,000 baht would last me 6 months over here! Welcome to to the real Thailand !

Farang Jaidee x

[thailiketoo]

So we can conclude that while here, you lived wholly like a Thai?

No cheese or wine? No single malts or cream cheese? No Doritos? No rib-eyes? No bacon and sausage for breakfast? No tacos or burritos? All of which are still cheaper in the States.

Living "frugally" can be quite a yawn inducing existence.

I understand your sentiments, but me, I'm not interested in "getting by." I'd rather work hard and play hard. I've got five years here non-stop myself, and can't wait to go back, both to work at a very nice salary, and to eat, eat, eat.

It's all relevant.

I lived like a Thai but I had plenty of money for "entertainment". 40,000 baht a month goes much further in Thailand than here. There is a lot of cheap food in the US but it is very unhealthy as you already know. I personally prefer Thai food to farang food. I seldom paid more than 30 baht for a good meal in Pattaya or northern Thailand.

For 30 baht you get a meal, not a good one. Try a 3 star Michelin restaurant once.

Absolutely the antithesis of the Buddhist way to happiness. Of course many Thais also agree with your estimation of the good life but it is worth noting that many do not.

[Canadaguy]

So we can conclude that while here, you lived wholly like a Thai?

No cheese or wine? No single malts or cream cheese? No Doritos? No rib-eyes? No bacon and sausage for breakfast? No tacos or burritos? All of which are still cheaper in the States.

Living "frugally" can be quite a yawn inducing existence.

I understand your sentiments, but me, I'm not interested in "getting by." I'd rather work hard and play hard. I've got five years here non-stop myself, and can't wait to go back, both to work at a very nice salary, and to eat, eat, eat.

It's all relevant.

Edited September 15, 2014 by Canadaguy

[driedmango]

Compared to where i live in Canada, the west coast of the USA is a bargain all around, even Seattle.. BC Canada has now made a min price of pretty much $5.50 a pint and a pub CAN"T go lower, so all beer is same price.. it's corrupt in a different way here, like they just raise the price.

I have been thinking of a summertime coffee stand here for festivals.. what a joke, you have to be wealthy to try to open a little food try to try to scrape by.

Almost thinking of moving to Thailand, but no connections there and it is also full of problems.

I like to think with all my disadvantages as a white male in the world, I will benefit in the struggle, but who knows..

[NeverSure]

That's only because the USA is eleventy bazillion in debt with taxes that are too low to pay the real cost of living.

Dream on, baby. The US debt as a ratio to GDP is 72.5% while the UK's is 90%. Japan rings the bell at 214%.

None of those other countries have the nature resources that the US has that can be converted to cash. Vast timberlands, more oil than all of the rest of the world combined, enough natural gas already discovered to last 100 years, 88,000 miles of saltwater shoreline, more farmland than any other country in the world...

Wishing won't make it so, dude.

LINK

Edited September 15, 2014 by NeverSure

[mania]

That's only because the USA is eleventy bazillion in debt with taxes that are too low to pay the real cost of living.

Dream on, baby. The US debt as a ratio to GDP is 72.5%

Is Debt as a ratio to GDP a good guide to use?....Being it includes government spending

Which in the USA's case is quite high . Kind of double dipping IMHO when using GDP as a guide against debt

GDP= Consumer Spending + Investment + (exports-imports)+ Government Spending

Wouldn't a better guide of a countries financial health be just be income/taxation vs expense/liabilities...SS,Medicare etc./interest on debt etc.?

Edited September 16, 2014 by mania

[thailiketoo]

That's only because the USA is eleventy bazillion in debt with taxes that are too low to pay the real cost of living.

Dream on, baby. The US debt as a ratio to GDP is 72.5%

Is Debt as a ratio to GDP is a good guide to use?....Being it includes government spending

Which in the USA's case is quite high . Kind of double dipping IMHO when using GDP as a guide against debt

GDP= Consumer Spending + Investment + (exports-imports)+ Government Spending

Wouldn't a better guide of a countries financial health be just be income/taxation vs expense/liabilities...SS,Medicare etc./interest on debt etc.?

Maybe a good guide would be what percent of the country wants to leave?

[craigt3365]

That's only because the USA is eleventy bazillion in debt with taxes that are too low to pay the real cost of living.

Dream on, baby. The US debt as a ratio to GDP is 72.5%

Is Debt as a ratio to GDP is a good guide to use?....Being it includes government spending

Which in the USA's case is quite high . Kind of double dipping IMHO when using GDP as a guide against debt

GDP= Consumer Spending + Investment + (exports-imports)+ Government Spending

Wouldn't a better guide of a countries financial health be just be income/taxation vs expense/liabilities...SS,Medicare etc./interest on debt etc.?

Maybe a good guide would be what percent of the country wants to leave?

I know few that want to leave permanently. I know many who are frustrated with their government, but would never leave just because of that....though they talk about it all the time. 55555

There are many who are temporarily living outside the US, but plan to move back at some time. Or visit on a regular basis. Mexico is the #1 destination for US expats, because it's close to "home" and has wonderful weather in the winter. We call them "snowbirds".

Enough with the GDP discussion...back to the topic, please.

[hhgz]

"Let's just say things are a bit more expensive here than what I was used to in Thailand."

Let's just say, we're not surprised. Let's just sat that internet research can prove rewarding.

"This place sucks and I'm getting out of here asap."

​Let's just say there's always a plate of 20THB food, and 3000THB/month apartments awaiting your return.

[eldragon]

One thing I want to be very clear about, I am not bashing the US. It was good to me in my early years but I saw the writing on the wall. I am just saying it is really expensive, you had better plan on living in debt, paying high living costs, living with a lot of stress, working a lot and paying tons of taxes. Its not the land of the free and it costs a wad of cash to live here. If you make a lot then its all good but anything less then $5K a month net you are struggling.

I love my life in Thailand.

What you described sounds exactly like a lot of the problems many Thais face. Thailand is a different place, but also the same. It happens to be easier here for you b/c you likely have less responsibilities and your perspective makes you appreciate a simpler life. Anyway, good for you. Go with what makes you happy.

[JAFO]

Here is one that really always reminds me of the cost of living in the US. Took the truck in for its "Service". To sustain the expensive warranty on the truck you have to do the routine PM's or you get the threats "You will void your warranty" schpeel. So took it in(even though I am quite capable to do all of what they did), for a basic 30 point maintenance check, motor and differential oil change, a OBII ECU check and clear was $476.48(14,294 bht). Took them about an 1.5 hours. When I picked up the truck the service tech guy tried to lock me into a deal where I buy a silver maintenance pkg which would reduce these higher service costs but I had to pay for it all up front for 2 years. What a scam. One thing that always always strikes me funny here in the US is someone always has their hand in my pocket. It seems like I am paying out to somebody, some business, some agency every few days. In Thailand I may not pay out anything to anybody for months on end. No bills in the mail, no tax notices.

[mania]

In Thailand I may not pay out anything to anybody for months on end. No bills in the mail, no tax notices.

It took me more than a year to get used to the no mail no bills thing here in Thailand.

I would check my box daily.

Now I know to only check twice a month.

Once for the electric bill & once for my cable/internet bill

Edited September 17, 2014 by mania

[JAFO]

Ahhh, speaking of always feeling someone has their hands in my pocket...I come home today and go to mail box and BAM.....DMV bill for truck.

Lets breakdown the fees

Reg fee $70

License Fee $203

Weight fee $80

County district fee $10

SMOG Abatement fee $ 20

Total bill due $383 (11,940 bht)

In less than 24 hrs I have had to spend nearly 26,000 bht( including 14,000 bht from post 441) on the truck to keep warranty in place and now register the truck. In Thailand my service fee would have been 2450 bht(if I chose to have them do it), my tax reg in Thailand on our vehicle is 1700 bht. Grand total 4150 bht.

Again I am posting these numbers as I had mentioned before that its all the little fees that eat you alive here in the US and they are relentless. This is why many can never get ahead. Its check to check or poor and on food stamps.

Much of the debate in this thread has been about housing costs. That honestly is only a part of it. All the secondary and tertiary costs bury you. Many can afford a mortgage but can never live much beyond their home. From there on out they leverage their home ownership to finance cars and run up credit card bills.

Edited September 18, 2014 by JAFO

[craigt3365]

Ahhh, speaking of always feeling someone has their hands in my pocket...I come home today and go to mail box and BAM.....DMV bill for truck.

Lets breakdown the fees

Reg fee $70

License Fee $203

Weight fee $80

County district fee $10

SMOG Abatement fee $ 20

Total bill due $383 (11,940 bht)

In less than 24 hrs I have had to spend nearly 26,000 bht( including 14,000 bht from post 441) on the truck to keep warranty in place and now register the truck. In Thailand my service fee would have been 2450 bht(if I chose to have them do it), my tax reg in Thailand on our vehicle is 1700 bht. Grand total 4150 bht.

Again I am posting these numbers as I had mentioned before that its all the little fees that eat you alive here in the US and they are relentless. This is why many can never get ahead. Its check to check or poor and on food stamps.

Much of the debate in this thread has been about housing costs. That honestly is only a part of it. All the secondary and tertiary costs bury you. Many can afford a mortgage but can never live much beyond their home. From there on out they leverage their home ownership to finance cars and run up credit card bills.

I just took my Honda in for yearly service. I think it was B1,500. They did sell me the next several maintenance checkups with a 15% discount. But like you said, at B1,500, it's a great deal.

As for the registration, I'd gladly pay that yearly fee to have the roads here in the same condition as the roads back home! I don't think I ever had a flat tire in the US. I've had 3 here in 3 years. The roads here are absolutely terrible...and dangerous.

[JAFO]

Ahhh, speaking of always feeling someone has their hands in my pocket...I come home today and go to mail box and BAM.....DMV bill for truck.

Lets breakdown the fees

Reg fee $70

License Fee $203

Weight fee $80

County district fee $10

SMOG Abatement fee $ 20

Total bill due $383 (11,940 bht)

In less than 24 hrs I have had to spend nearly 26,000 bht( including 14,000 bht from post 441) on the truck to keep warranty in place and now register the truck. In Thailand my service fee would have been 2450 bht(if I chose to have them do it), my tax reg in Thailand on our vehicle is 1700 bht. Grand total 4150 bht.

Again I am posting these numbers as I had mentioned before that its all the little fees that eat you alive here in the US and they are relentless. This is why many can never get ahead. Its check to check or poor and on food stamps.

Much of the debate in this thread has been about housing costs. That honestly is only a part of it. All the secondary and tertiary costs bury you. Many can afford a mortgage but can never live much beyond their home. From there on out they leverage their home ownership to finance cars and run up credit card bills.

I just took my Honda in for yearly service. I think it was B1,500. They did sell me the next several maintenance checkups with a 15% discount. But like you said, at B1,500, it's a great deal.

As for the registration, I'd gladly pay that yearly fee to have the roads here in the same condition as the roads back home! I don't think I ever had a flat tire in the US. I've had 3 here in 3 years. The roads here are absolutely terrible...and dangerous.

@Craigt3365

You know its funny. Road quality in the US is totally dependent on where you live. Here in California they are utter garbage Hwy 101, Hwy 880 and interstate 680 are a handful. Pot holes, huge cracks, big uneven sections where big trucks have worn grooves in them and constant quick fixes that open up in a day or so . Interestingly I am the opposite of you on flat tires. I have yet to ever have one in Thailand but here in Calif have picked up a screw on one incident and slowly leaked out another had a huge lag bolt lodge in my sidewall scraping the tire. Here its frustrating as the construction guys fling drywall screws and all sort of crap off their truck as they hit holes and bumps and it falls into those pockets and pot holes and you hit one and pick it up. Tire gone.

I am up in North Thailand and our roads are extremely nice and well marked. Sure they have pockets of junky areas but overall I find them extremely comparable overall. Even a few friends who have visited commented on the roads and that they are the same. Anyway I understand your POV and if the money paid really went to improve roads I would have no issue but as you know this money just goes into an abyss and seldom do roads that are a mess get fixed. Its like the Lotto, was supposed to help schools and yet billions are made and schools still close.

I suspect roads in the Midwest belt are pretty nice, east coast are horrific due to the harsh winters. I've been there.

[craigt3365]

I lived all over the US and unfortunately, the weather really takes a toll on the roads. But, there are some fantastic highways, traffic lights almost always work, and you'll never find a huge hole in the middle of the road with a bamboo stick poking out and a plastic bag tied to it! LOL

I took a 3 week trip from Pattaya up to Khon Kaen and around the eastern part of Issan 2 years ago. The roads are absolutely horrible. Poorly signed, huge pot holes, crazy traffic. Mexico has better roads. We've done 2 very long driving trips from Pattaya down to Phuket, Samui, NST, etc. The main road is a disgrace. Absolutely horrible. A few roads are pretty good. But like you say, the trucks really beat them up here. Overloaded, etc.

I kinda like 101. We did that trip from LA to SF 3 years ago. What a wonderful trip. Again, I'll take the US roads any day. No stray dogs, scooters with no lights going the wrong way, farm tractors, crazy bus drivers, etc. 5555 We were literally run off the road near Buriram on our trip by a bus coming the other way. Just flashed their lights at us and next thing you know, I'm in the dirt. No choice!

[Digitalnomade]

Thailand is the 6th most dangerous country in the world for driving. Even African countries are safer!

[CaptainTyphoon]

I like this topic!!!!

I have not had the urge to move back there, to ASU, for over 20 years. Sometimes I wonder what I would do if I did move back, and where I would choose to live

I think I would choose Manhattan.

Why, Manhattan?

Because Manhattan is not really a part of America, and also the wide variety of cultures and arts and music and fantastic universities could help me see past the garbage in the rest of the country.

I do sometimes wish I could go to NYC, but I rarely went when I lived in the USA, many years ago.

How much more do you need to pay for the living at the same level as you lived in Thailand?

[thailiketoo]

I like this topic!!!!

I have not had the urge to move back there, to ASU, for over 20 years. Sometimes I wonder what I would do if I did move back, and where I would choose to live

I think I would choose Manhattan.

Why, Manhattan?

Because Manhattan is not really a part of America, and also the wide variety of cultures and arts and music and fantastic universities could help me see past the garbage in the rest of the country.

I do sometimes wish I could go to NYC, but I rarely went when I lived in the USA, many years ago.

How much more do you need to pay for the living at the same level as you lived in Thailand?

The average price for monthly parking in Manhattan is $431. Parking in Manhattan costs about the same as rent (15,000 baht) in Bangkok.

Hourly rates tend to vary widely by neighborhood -- from about $6 to $25 and over. What can one get for 900 baht an hour in Thailand?????

http://manhattan.about.com/od/gettingaround/a/parkingnyc.htm

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Ahhh, speaking of always feeling someone has their hands in my pocket...I come home today and go to mail box and BAM.....DMV bill for truck.

Lets breakdown the fees

Reg fee $70

License Fee $203

Weight fee $80

County district fee $10

SMOG Abatement fee $ 20

Total bill due $383 (11,940 bht)

In less than 24 hrs I have had to spend nearly 26,000 bht( including 14,000 bht from post 441) on the truck to keep warranty in place and now register the truck. In Thailand my service fee would have been 2450 bht(if I chose to have them do it), my tax reg in Thailand on our vehicle is 1700 bht. Grand total 4150 bht.

Just did my pickup in Thailand,

Insurance 1,000bht

Roadworthiness test 160bht

Tax 909bht (inc. 9bht fine for paying 1 month late)

Total 2,069 bht.

Edited September 18, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[Kudel]

And some Japanese car brands are cheaper to buy new in my country then in Thailand Honda Accord with V6 engine and full option costs 5000 euro less then in Thailand but of course nobody buys Japanese cars here nowadays as some most German cars are cheaper then jap cars.

[CaptainTyphoon]

And some Japanese car brands are cheaper to buy new in my country then in Thailand Honda Accord with V6 engine and full option costs 5000 euro less then in Thailand but of course nobody buys Japanese cars here nowadays as some most German cars are cheaper then jap cars.

That is amazing. You say that German cars are cheaper than Japanese cars in America?\

What will they think of next?

How much is an Sel 420? Still over a 100 thousand, probably.

[Kudel]

And some Japanese car brands are cheaper to buy new in my country then in Thailand Honda Accord with V6 engine and full option costs 5000 euro less then in Thailand but of course nobody buys Japanese cars here nowadays as some most German cars are cheaper then jap cars.

That is amazing. You say that German cars are cheaper than Japanese cars in America?\

What will they think of next?

How much is an Sel 420? Still over a 100 thousand, probably.

Nope i live in a small country in Europe called Belgium looked up the price for said Honda Accord two years ago on the Honda Thailand site and the Honda Belgium site and said model was about 5000 euros cheaper then in Thailand with the then currency rate's, and some of youre fellow yanks have said that jap cars are cheaper to buy in the states then in Thailand and a decent Volkswagen or AUDI or some Benz and some BMW models are almost in the same price range as jap cars .

If driving a benz after twenty years you will still be able to buy spare parts of the shelf and cheaper then jap cars parts in most European country,

's if you can still find said spare parts .

[JAFO]

Lets talk phone and Cable/internet services as a sticker shock.

I have a very basic mobile phone package here in the US. 2 Phones(wife and I) 2gb Data, unlimited text, unlimited voice. I have 4G in most places. The big 3 (AT&T, Verizon, and Sprint) are all clearly in collusion together as their prices are within a few bucks of each other. Again all about what the market will bear. When you sign up with any of them it has to be a 2 year contract and if you exit early for any reason you are liable for early contract cancellation fees plus the cost of the phone pro rated. So they front you a phone for a low entry fee cost but you pay full retail over the 2 year contract.

My current monthly bill is $152.48(4,574 bht) being I never go over my 2gb allowance. My AIS service prior to me coming back to work in the US was $53.00(1590 bht) for 2 phones with basic same service.

I will admit the service was a bit slower at times but honestly I do not use my phone much for anything but a camera and a messenger to chat with friends and family back home. I do not live on my phone with FB, web browsing, etc etc. Whats really nice about Thailand is you have more than just 3 options and many pay as you go options. You can do this for a lot less if one wanted too. That is virtually impossible here. They want you locked up.

Cable or Satellite TV here is horrendous for what you really get. You can't pick out what channels you want to receive so they market it that signing up gets you 700 channels of HD TV, Firstly who watches 700 Channels of TV? Secondly, how many are really something worth watching? I can honestly say that I might watch 7 channels the rest is utter mind numbing crap. Reality nonsense, Kardashian BS, religion channels, infomercial junk relentless med commercials, lawyers selling services etc and I am at work during the day so I might pull off a couple hours a night and that's usually watching the SF Giants.

Average basic Comcast/internet cable bill where I live $125(3,750 bht) for 2 rooms(They bundle internet and cable). That is the cheapest basic cable package. I know some that spend upwards $200(6,000 bht) so they can have premium channels like HBO and Cinemax. In Thailand I had a total different deal, I had a basic satellite set up as the missus liked her Thai news and that was free, my internet cost was $30(900 bht).

I will say that I do not have a big desire to watch TV but the internet is important as I can DL or stream content when I want to. I am a DL content person and then stream to my big TV. Cant do that in the US. Everything is bundled and they lock you up into a contract.

Again as mentioned before I am posting my expenses for where I live. I clearly understand that others have different cash outlays and desires and needs but I am just showing these hidden living costs. This is why retiring here can be extremely difficult and explains why so many are below the poverty line. If you make a six fig salary you can survive. You will not save much, cannot do much but you can be above the poverty line and carry a descent amount of financial debt. You also have to work much further into life. Most work until 65 or up so SS and Medicaid kick in. If you move to another part of the US its all relative, its lower cost housing but salaries never even come close to 6 figures for a middle class job. Milk, bread, food staples are the same across all 50 states except Hawaii where everything is way more expensive, gas may be cheaper across the lower 48 but not all that much, 10 to 15%. Its not like California is $4.00 and Atlanta is $1.50.

I rather enjoy the overall comparison. I have a detailed spreadsheet i generated some 5 years ago when I had nothing but time in my condo after work in BKK to assess this. So if you want to retire early and make your money work for you, Thailand will work. You clearly have to make some concessions but to this date I have not found that anything I had to "Live without" got me upset. I replaced with other activities as I had my free time to venture off and try new things.

BTW, my monthly rent here is $2230(66,900bht). My rent in Thailand averaged $285(8500bht) to $300(10,000bht) when I was condo living. When the missus and I moved down near the beach and rented the same size house we live in here in the US it was $300(10,000bht). Now that we have a home in Thailand our rent is $0.