Just moved back to the states after 5 years. Sticker shock.

[CaptainTyphoon]

Lets talk phone and Cable/internet services as a sticker shock.

I have a very basic mobile phone package here in the US. 2 Phones(wife and I) 2gb Data, unlimited text, unlimited voice. I have 4G in most places. The big 3 (AT&T, Verizon, and Sprint) are all clearly in collusion together as their prices are within a few bucks of each other. Again all about what the market will bear. When you sign up with any of them it has to be a 2 year contract and if you exit early for any reason you are liable for early contract cancellation fees plus the cost of the phone pro rated. So they front you a phone for a low entry fee cost but you pay full retail over the 2 year contract.

My current monthly bill is $152.48(4,574 bht) being I never go over my 2gb allowance. My AIS service prior to me coming back to work in the US was $53.00(1590 bht) for 2 phones with basic same service.

I will admit the service was a bit slower at times but honestly I do not use my phone much for anything but a camera and a messenger to chat with friends and family back home. I do not live on my phone with FB, web browsing, etc etc. Whats really nice about Thailand is you have more than just 3 options and many pay as you go options. You can do this for a lot less if one wanted too. That is virtually impossible here. They want you locked up.

Cable or Satellite TV here is horrendous for what you really get. You can't pick out what channels you want to receive so they market it that signing up gets you 700 channels of HD TV, Firstly who watches 700 Channels of TV? Secondly, how many are really something worth watching? I can honestly say that I might watch 7 channels the rest is utter mind numbing crap. Reality nonsense, Kardashian BS, religion channels, infomercial junk relentless med commercials, lawyers selling services etc and I am at work during the day so I might pull off a couple hours a night and that's usually watching the SF Giants.

Average basic Comcast/internet cable bill where I live $125(3,750 bht) for 2 rooms(They bundle internet and cable). That is the cheapest basic cable package. I know some that spend upwards $200(6,000 bht) so they can have premium channels like HBO and Cinemax. In Thailand I had a total different deal, I had a basic satellite set up as the missus liked her Thai news and that was free, my internet cost was $30(900 bht).

I will say that I do not have a big desire to watch TV but the internet is important as I can DL or stream content when I want to. I am a DL content person and then stream to my big TV. Cant do that in the US. Everything is bundled and they lock you up into a contract.

Again as mentioned before I am posting my expenses for where I live. I clearly understand that others have different cash outlays and desires and needs but I am just showing these hidden living costs. This is why retiring here can be extremely difficult and explains why so many are below the poverty line. If you make a six fig salary you can survive. You will not save much, cannot do much but you can be above the poverty line and carry a descent amount of financial debt. You also have to work much further into life. Most work until 65 or up so SS and Medicaid kick in. If you move to another part of the US its all relative, its lower cost housing but salaries never even come close to 6 figures for a middle class job. Milk, bread, food staples are the same across all 50 states except Hawaii where everything is way more expensive, gas may be cheaper across the lower 48 but not all that much, 10 to 15%. Its not like California is $4.00 and Atlanta is $1.50.

I rather enjoy the overall comparison. I have a detailed spreadsheet i generated some 5 years ago when I had nothing but time in my condo after work in BKK to assess this. So if you want to retire early and make your money work for you, Thailand will work. You clearly have to make some concessions but to this date I have not found that anything I had to "Live without" got me upset. I replaced with other activities as I had my free time to venture off and try new things.

BTW, my monthly rent here is $2230(66,900bht). My rent in Thailand averaged $285(8500bht) to $300(10,000bht) when I was condo living. When the missus and I moved down near the beach and rented the same size house we live in here in the US it was $300(10,000bht). Now that we have a home in Thailand our rent is $0.

I do not think you need to make ANY concessions in Thailand.

If you need to make concessions, as you say, then what are they?

Other than this point, I agree with all you say, and it is a GOOD POST!

Edited September 19, 2014 by CaptainTyphoon

[meand]

People forget the tax of having to do something every 90 days in this country too, which is utterly ridiculous if you are married IMO. It really does add up too, all the transport and associated costs.

[NeverSure]

It seems to me that people tend to focus on one thing instead of the overall. Some things will be better in one place but worse in another. If I average out the cost in both places they are about the same. I have no problem flat-out saying that Thailand has some of the worst roads and worst drivers of any place I've ever seen, and it proves it by being the 6th most dangerous place in the world to drive. How do you put a price on that?

Someone mentioned German cars. Maybe he meant Volkswagen which is one of the best selling cars in the world and is made in the USA and is cheap to buy.

For my 2 cents I'd just like to invite people to buy the following. Remember, a house will include the land in your name.

2.5 million baht with land, price is negotiable always.

2014 Toyota Corolla well equipped - 548K baht

15.6" Toshiba laptop with Windows 8.1 included 11,200 baht

40" HDTV 9500 baht

Edit: Where I live there is no sales (vat) tax and these are out-the-door prices. All but the house are brand new.

Edited September 19, 2014 by NeverSure

[JAFO]

Lets talk phone and Cable/internet services as a sticker shock.

I have a very basic mobile phone package here in the US. 2 Phones(wife and I) 2gb Data, unlimited text, unlimited voice. I have 4G in most places. The big 3 (AT&T, Verizon, and Sprint) are all clearly in collusion together as their prices are within a few bucks of each other. Again all about what the market will bear. When you sign up with any of them it has to be a 2 year contract and if you exit early for any reason you are liable for early contract cancellation fees plus the cost of the phone pro rated. So they front you a phone for a low entry fee cost but you pay full retail over the 2 year contract.

My current monthly bill is $152.48(4,574 bht) being I never go over my 2gb allowance. My AIS service prior to me coming back to work in the US was $53.00(1590 bht) for 2 phones with basic same service.

I will admit the service was a bit slower at times but honestly I do not use my phone much for anything but a camera and a messenger to chat with friends and family back home. I do not live on my phone with FB, web browsing, etc etc. Whats really nice about Thailand is you have more than just 3 options and many pay as you go options. You can do this for a lot less if one wanted too. That is virtually impossible here. They want you locked up.

Cable or Satellite TV here is horrendous for what you really get. You can't pick out what channels you want to receive so they market it that signing up gets you 700 channels of HD TV, Firstly who watches 700 Channels of TV? Secondly, how many are really something worth watching? I can honestly say that I might watch 7 channels the rest is utter mind numbing crap. Reality nonsense, Kardashian BS, religion channels, infomercial junk relentless med commercials, lawyers selling services etc and I am at work during the day so I might pull off a couple hours a night and that's usually watching the SF Giants.

Average basic Comcast/internet cable bill where I live $125(3,750 bht) for 2 rooms(They bundle internet and cable). That is the cheapest basic cable package. I know some that spend upwards $200(6,000 bht) so they can have premium channels like HBO and Cinemax. In Thailand I had a total different deal, I had a basic satellite set up as the missus liked her Thai news and that was free, my internet cost was $30(900 bht).

I will say that I do not have a big desire to watch TV but the internet is important as I can DL or stream content when I want to. I am a DL content person and then stream to my big TV. Cant do that in the US. Everything is bundled and they lock you up into a contract.

Again as mentioned before I am posting my expenses for where I live. I clearly understand that others have different cash outlays and desires and needs but I am just showing these hidden living costs. This is why retiring here can be extremely difficult and explains why so many are below the poverty line. If you make a six fig salary you can survive. You will not save much, cannot do much but you can be above the poverty line and carry a descent amount of financial debt. You also have to work much further into life. Most work until 65 or up so SS and Medicaid kick in. If you move to another part of the US its all relative, its lower cost housing but salaries never even come close to 6 figures for a middle class job. Milk, bread, food staples are the same across all 50 states except Hawaii where everything is way more expensive, gas may be cheaper across the lower 48 but not all that much, 10 to 15%. Its not like California is $4.00 and Atlanta is $1.50.

I rather enjoy the overall comparison. I have a detailed spreadsheet i generated some 5 years ago when I had nothing but time in my condo after work in BKK to assess this. So if you want to retire early and make your money work for you, Thailand will work. You clearly have to make some concessions but to this date I have not found that anything I had to "Live without" got me upset. I replaced with other activities as I had my free time to venture off and try new things.

BTW, my monthly rent here is $2230(66,900bht). My rent in Thailand averaged $285(8500bht) to $300(10,000bht) when I was condo living. When the missus and I moved down near the beach and rented the same size house we live in here in the US it was $300(10,000bht). Now that we have a home in Thailand our rent is $0.

I do not think you need to make ANY concessions in Thailand.

If you need to make concessions, as you say, then what are they?

Other than this point, I agree with all you say, and it is a GOOD POST!

Well I say concessions as to what people will have to ultimately change in either their thought process or things that are just not available and they will likely have to let go. If you are one that wants strip malls loaded with consumer goods, Police cars patrolling every neighborhood, 4G cell service, 700 channels of TV to pick from, paved sidewalks everywhere, streetlights every 50 feet that light up the valley, fast food places like In and Out, Carls Junior, McDonalds, Togo's, Subway sandwiches etc etc, then Thailand may not be the place for you. I personally need none of that. Anyone wanting to move abroad really needs to sit down and look at the big picture before packing up and moving. Its a much bigger proposition. And I mentioned one must not forget about the long term living costs. Forget about all the one off consumer purchases and comparisons. Those are moot IMHO.

[JAFO]

It seems to me that people tend to focus on one thing instead of the overall. Some things will be better in one place but worse in another. If I average out the cost in both places they are about the same. I have no problem flat-out saying that Thailand has some of the worst roads and worst drivers of any place I've ever seen, and it proves it by being the 6th most dangerous place in the world to drive. How do you put a price on that?

Someone mentioned German cars. Maybe he meant Volkswagen which is one of the best selling cars in the world and is made in the USA and is cheap to buy.

For my 2 cents I'd just like to invite people to buy the following. Remember, a house will include the land in your name.

2.5 million baht with land, price is negotiable always.

2014 Toyota Corolla well equipped - 548K baht

15.6" Toshiba laptop with Windows 8.1 included 11,200 baht

40" HDTV 9500 baht

Edit: Where I live there is no sales (vat) tax and these are out-the-door prices. All but the house are brand new.

@ Neversure,

You reference 4 very material items like those are really living expenses. I would hope others look at things in a much bigger picture and longer term. While the things you mentioned might be cheaper here in the US they are one off material purchases and not everybody wants or needs them. If one is planning on living long term in Thailand its about day to day living expenses. Things you need to have and those associated costs. Short of the house and the car, I could easily have a friend bring me the Comp and TV on an airplane flight when they come over here for work. one learns how to maximize their dollar.

[NeverSure]

-snip-

And I mentioned one must not forget about the long term living costs. Forget about all the one off consumer purchases and comparisons. Those are moot IMHO.

I'm not sure what you mean. There are not only one off consumer purchases, there are purchases almost daily of food and other consumer goods.

Prices for most things are simply cheaper in the US than they are in Europe or OZ, and taxes are far lower. Gasoline is $3.59 (116 baht) per US gallon. Food, beer, wine, liquor are all much cheaper.

Someone mentioned internet and cable TV but it's not the same, and I found those prices to be high. I do pay about $100 a month for 50MBps down, and 240 channels.

I think there's an economic reason that more Americans don't become expats. America has 5x the population of the UK and 10x the population of OZ and yet is very underrepresented as expats to LOS.

Edited September 19, 2014 by NeverSure

[NeverSure]

It seems to me that people tend to focus on one thing instead of the overall. Some things will be better in one place but worse in another. If I average out the cost in both places they are about the same. I have no problem flat-out saying that Thailand has some of the worst roads and worst drivers of any place I've ever seen, and it proves it by being the 6th most dangerous place in the world to drive. How do you put a price on that?

Someone mentioned German cars. Maybe he meant Volkswagen which is one of the best selling cars in the world and is made in the USA and is cheap to buy.

For my 2 cents I'd just like to invite people to buy the following. Remember, a house will include the land in your name.

2.5 million baht with land, price is negotiable always.

2014 Toyota Corolla well equipped - 548K baht

15.6" Toshiba laptop with Windows 8.1 included 11,200 baht

40" HDTV 9500 baht

Edit: Where I live there is no sales (vat) tax and these are out-the-door prices. All but the house are brand new.

@ Neversure,

You reference 4 very material items like those are really living expenses. I would hope others look at things in a much bigger picture and longer term. While the things you mentioned might be cheaper here in the US they are one off material purchases and not everybody wants or needs them. If one is planning on living long term in Thailand its about day to day living expenses. Things you need to have and those associated costs. Short of the house and the car, I could easily have a friend bring me the Comp and TV on an airplane flight when they come over here for work. one learns how to maximize their dollar.

See above. Everyday purchases are cheaper unless you really lower your living standards.

[JAFO]

It seems to me that people tend to focus on one thing instead of the overall. Some things will be better in one place but worse in another. If I average out the cost in both places they are about the same. I have no problem flat-out saying that Thailand has some of the worst roads and worst drivers of any place I've ever seen, and it proves it by being the 6th most dangerous place in the world to drive. How do you put a price on that?

Someone mentioned German cars. Maybe he meant Volkswagen which is one of the best selling cars in the world and is made in the USA and is cheap to buy.

For my 2 cents I'd just like to invite people to buy the following. Remember, a house will include the land in your name.

2.5 million baht with land, price is negotiable always.

2014 Toyota Corolla well equipped - 548K baht

15.6" Toshiba laptop with Windows 8.1 included 11,200 baht

40" HDTV 9500 baht

Edit: Where I live there is no sales (vat) tax and these are out-the-door prices. All but the house are brand new.

@ Neversure,

You reference 4 very material items like those are really living expenses. I would hope others look at things in a much bigger picture and longer term. While the things you mentioned might be cheaper here in the US they are one off material purchases and not everybody wants or needs them. If one is planning on living long term in Thailand its about day to day living expenses. Things you need to have and those associated costs. Short of the house and the car, I could easily have a friend bring me the Comp and TV on an airplane flight when they come over here for work. one learns how to maximize their dollar.

See above. Everyday purchases are cheaper unless you really lower your living standards.

@Neversure

Its funny. Personally I have never felt at anytime that I lowered my living standards moving to Thailand. In many regards I feel I improved them as I shed myself of just buying stuff to buy stuff and I got to stop working long before the avg retirement age of most Americans. Now I will say that some judge their quality of life or their living standards/status solely based on material possessions or how much they can buy. I get that. Its clearly an individual preference. I am glad I was fortunate enough to have lived both to fairly compare.

[NeverSure]

@Neversure

Its funny. Personally I have never felt at anytime that I lowered my living standards moving to Thailand. In many regards I feel I improved them as I shed myself of just buying stuff to buy stuff and I got to stop working long before the avg retirement age of most Americans. Now I will say that some judge their quality of life or their living standards/status solely based on material possessions or how much they can buy. I get that. Its clearly an individual preference. I am glad I was fortunate enough to have lived both to fairly compare.

Just for me, there are some living standards I can't control, and some bother me in LOS.

Crap roads and crazy drivers.

Litter and piles of rubbish that smell and may even have rats in them.

Water into your dwelling that isn't safe to drink.

Lack of sanitary sewer.

Dangerous and unpredictable electrical installations.

Dirty streets, sidewalk and buildings with sidewalks so cluttered with carts and cars and scooters that it's dangerous to walk. Sometimes you have to walk in the street where no one cares what happens to you.

Uncertainty of food quality and safety.

I could go on and on, but to me any of those is lowering my standard of living.

[JAFO]

@Neversure

Its funny. Personally I have never felt at anytime that I lowered my living standards moving to Thailand. In many regards I feel I improved them as I shed myself of just buying stuff to buy stuff and I got to stop working long before the avg retirement age of most Americans. Now I will say that some judge their quality of life or their living standards/status solely based on material possessions or how much they can buy. I get that. Its clearly an individual preference. I am glad I was fortunate enough to have lived both to fairly compare.

Just for me, there are some living standards I can't control, and some bother me in LOS.

Crap roads and crazy drivers.

Litter and piles of rubbish that smell and may even have rats in them.

Water into your dwelling that isn't safe to drink.

Lack of sanitary sewer.

Dangerous and unpredictable electrical installations.

Dirty streets, sidewalk and buildings with sidewalks so cluttered with carts and cars and scooters that it's dangerous to walk. Sometimes you have to walk in the street where no one cares what happens to you.

Uncertainty of food quality and safety.

I could go on and on, but to me any of those is lowering my standard of living.

May I ask what part of Thailand you live in that you experience all of this?

I have experienced a few roads in need of repair but no worse then where I currently live now in Calif. Generally speaking the roads are better in the US but not worlds apart. Personally dealing with the inept drivers in the US I would take Thai drivers over the fools I contend with every day but that is clearly a personal threshold limit. Some have far better driving and patience skills then others.

I do not see any of the rubbish you speak of where I am located. I will say I did see it in BKK frequently and it was a bit nasty Hence why BKK was nothing more than a stop over and leave.

In the US it is recommended that you do not drink any tap water in most states and most do not, its all bottled water like Thailand. Of course Brita and all the other water filtration companies in the US make a killing on water purification systems. Bottled water is just fine for me. I like it cold anyway.

I have a septic tank and leech field as do all my neighbors, pretty standard safe practices and used world wide

I have never experienced dangerous electrical installations. I have seen some really ugly wire messes in BKK along Wireless Road (which in itself is an oxymoron) but where I live its pretty normal. Telephone poles and wires.

Do not see any of the street, sidewalk issues you mentioned(This all sounds like BKK living)

As for food, my wife and I know the people that raise the pigs, chickens and fish. We grow our own vegetables and fruit and trade with neighbors who grow things we do not. I have to say this is WAY WAY better then the US. To keep costs down the US imports nearly all its fruit and veggies from countries with absolutely no controls but it allows them to be cheaper in the stores. You have zero idea what was used to grow them.

Again, not trying to cite a debate with you, just quite interested where you experience all those things. I would say if it was that bad for me I may not have ever moved or I would have given it a deeper consideration. I can see where those things you mentioned are marginal.

Edited September 19, 2014 by JAFO

[NeverSure]

I've lived only in Chiang Mai. The longest was almost 6 months. The last time I was there (last year) I also spent a month with a rented Avis car touring Isaan.

I've never been anywhere in the US where it was recommended not to drink the water, but I've heard of it during times of drought when water supplies got really muddy. Otherwise most places have proper water treatment plants.

I just did a quick google images. I typed in small town USA street to be sure to get the most basic and least upscale, and then typed in small town Thailand street and here's what I get. To me the differences are stark. They would be in the UK, Canada, OZ, etc. too.

In Thailand I see improper food handling, lack of refrigeration, etc. That always bothers me and is part of why I say that I can't live the same lifestyle in Thailand no matter what I do.

Peace.

[nzvic]

Son reckons food/clothing/housing heaps cheaper in US than in NZ - and from what I've seen, fantastic quality in clothing, at bargain basement prices. He, and others, see it as vibrant place full of opportunity compared to NZ which is one of the costliest for housing. Kiwis who wanted to return, despite being in lucrative professions, told me they couldn't afford to return to live.

I don't think Thailand is as cheap to live in as it's made out to be, and I'm pretty frugal because I choose to be and can pass on savings to the disadvantaged and my kids eventually!

Sadly the young, more productive people are leaving NZ, so evermore fewer paying towards the very generous welfare state system, whereby one can be unemployed throughout life yet get free housing/liveable income etc....it was meant for the disabled, sick, disadvantaged initially. That's why it's so easy to get into the country as they don't want the population going down; after 10 yrs, all benefits are available despite never being employed! Some benefits are even available immediately e.g. 24/7 accident cover from the minute of arriving!!! Stupid eh?

Have some USA members found it time-consuming to get their "alien" spouses into the country? It's taken a year to get a 10-yr greencard, despite never-unemployed son to do so; his Am. wife has been working back there for a year. Backlog in processing may be the cause.

[craigt3365]

I do not think you need to make ANY concessions in Thailand.

If you need to make concessions, as you say, then what are they?

Other than this point, I agree with all you say, and it is a GOOD POST!

Well I say concessions as to what people will have to ultimately change in either their thought process or things that are just not available and they will likely have to let go. If you are one that wants strip malls loaded with consumer goods, Police cars patrolling every neighborhood, 4G cell service, 700 channels of TV to pick from, paved sidewalks everywhere, streetlights every 50 feet that light up the valley, fast food places like In and Out, Carls Junior, McDonalds, Togo's, Subway sandwiches etc etc, then Thailand may not be the place for you. I personally need none of that. Anyone wanting to move abroad really needs to sit down and look at the big picture before packing up and moving. Its a much bigger proposition. And I mentioned one must not forget about the long term living costs. Forget about all the one off consumer purchases and comparisons. Those are moot IMHO.

There are plenty of concessions. They've been listed before. Good beef, cheap wine, quality roads, selection of good used cars, reliable internet, cheap household goods, shopping, etc. But if you live here in a small 1BR apartment, don't eat meat or drink wine, etc, then these things might not matter. This is how I lived when I first came to Thailand. But not now. So, to some of us, these things are a huge concession. I'm trying to find some equipment for my pool. Impossible to get the parts here so have to import them, at a fair expense when you count in the import duties.

As for cable TV, you're not comparing apples to apples. True cable here is horrible. Very poor selection of channels and many shows have parts censored. What you get for the same price in the US is way better. But to some, that doesn't really matter. To some, it does. Here's an option for over 300 channels for $44 or B1,400.

http://www.att.com/u-verse/shop/channellineupPopup.jsp?pkgId=U200&locale=

As for cell phones, I do in the US like I do here. Pay as you go. I think I paid about $20 a month.

You talk about police cars patrolling. I hear people on this forum complaining all the time about the poor quality of the police force here. In our village, to even get them to show up, we have to pay 2k Baht. And it will take hours, if they ever come. I'd love to see a roving patrol car every once in a while.

One big thing I haven't seen listed is health care. For many, this will be the biggest expense they have. And it comes when you least expect it.

Everybody's life is different.

[NeverSure]

Son reckons food/clothing/housing heaps cheaper in US than in NZ - and from what I've seen, fantastic quality in clothing, at bargain basement prices. He, and others, see it as vibrant place full of opportunity compared to NZ which is one of the costliest for housing. Kiwis who wanted to return, despite being in lucrative professions, told me they couldn't afford to return to live.

I don't think Thailand is as cheap to live in as it's made out to be, and I'm pretty frugal because I choose to be and can pass on savings to the disadvantaged and my kids eventually!

Sadly the young, more productive people are leaving NZ, so evermore fewer paying towards the very generous welfare state system, whereby one can be unemployed throughout life yet get free housing/liveable income etc....it was meant for the disabled, sick, disadvantaged initially. That's why it's so easy to get into the country as they don't want the population going down; after 10 yrs, all benefits are available despite never being employed! Some benefits are even available immediately e.g. 24/7 accident cover from the minute of arriving!!! Stupid eh?

Have some USA members found it time-consuming to get their "alien" spouses into the country? It's taken a year to get a 10-yr greencard, despite never-unemployed son to do so; his Am. wife has been working back there for a year. Backlog in processing may be the cause.

Nice post and good luck to your son.

Yes, getting a green card is a slow process but I think he'll get it.

You mentioned clothes. Do you know that the US can make clothing without human intervention? It's technology that's driving that opportunity you mention. Young people never had so much opportunity as everything changes so fast and the young adapt to it best.

[bonobo]

I'm in the US now and have been here for several weeks doing some things for my US household. Other than some one-time purchases, we are spending about the same as what we do in Thailand--for a higher quality of life. For everything that is more expensive here, there are many things that are cheaper. Even some odd things are cheaper. Today at the Asian store so my wife could buy some items, about half were cheaper than in Thailand--even durian, although that was frozen.

However, one thing really stands out. Medical care is much more expensive in the US. I am covered from my military service, but putting my wife on that program is very expensive. Simple health care with a $50 deductible is quite expensive, too.

Not having to do with costs, although it could be a reason some insurances are high, one huge difference between the US and Thailand is the number of people getting around on mobility scooters. They are everywhere, even on the main streets. Old people, fat people, people with no obvious signs of disability, they are everywhere. Obviously disabled people still seem to be in powered wheelchairs, but everyone else seems to be in the scooters. On television, there are continual ads explaining how to get medicare or insurance to pay for them. In Bangkok, the scooters would be useless, but in the US where public areas are designed for the disabled, the scooters work fine. In Thailand, the truly disabled either sit at home or ever-so-slowly stutter-step to their destination.

[craigt3365]

May I ask what part of Thailand you live in that you experience all of this?

I have experienced a few roads in need of repair but no worse then where I currently live now in Calif. Generally speaking the roads are better in the US but not worlds apart. Personally dealing with the inept drivers in the US I would take Thai drivers over the fools I contend with every day but that is clearly a personal threshold limit. Some have far better driving and patience skills then others.

I do not see any of the rubbish you speak of where I am located. I will say I did see it in BKK frequently and it was a bit nasty Hence why BKK was nothing more than a stop over and leave.

In the US it is recommended that you do not drink any tap water in most states and most do not, its all bottled water like Thailand. Of course Brita and all the other water filtration companies in the US make a killing on water purification systems. Bottled water is just fine for me. I like it cold anyway.

I have a septic tank and leech field as do all my neighbors, pretty standard safe practices and used world wide

I have never experienced dangerous electrical installations. I have seen some really ugly wire messes in BKK along Wireless Road (which in itself is an oxymoron) but where I live its pretty normal. Telephone poles and wires.

Do not see any of the street, sidewalk issues you mentioned(This all sounds like BKK living)

As for food, my wife and I know the people that raise the pigs, chickens and fish. We grow our own vegetables and fruit and trade with neighbors who grow things we do not. I have to say this is WAY WAY better then the US. To keep costs down the US imports nearly all its fruit and veggies from countries with absolutely no controls but it allows them to be cheaper in the stores. You have zero idea what was used to grow them.

Again, not trying to cite a debate with you, just quite interested where you experience all those things. I would say if it was that bad for me I may not have ever moved or I would have given it a deeper consideration. I can see where those things you mentioned are marginal.

Having driven all over Thailand, I'll again debate this with you about the roads being better here and the drivers better. I lived 20 years in California, I know the roads quite well. The drivers are extremely aggressive in the US, that's for sure. But there are some terrible drivers here. A lot due to drunk driving. I'd hate to think of how many people I know who've been in accidents here with drunk drivers. And there are some absolutely wonderful roads in the US, with proper guardrails, signage, drainage, shoulders, lane markings, etc.

Trash is everywhere. I was on a drive in the back roads of Pattaya yesterday. Trash everywhere. These are pretty much Thai only villages. Their sewage primarily goes into the storm drains, as does all the houses in my village. I walk on the beach several times a week. I know exactly where this effluent comes out into the ocean. Never see this in the US. One reason I don't swim at my local beach. Never. There is no sewage treatment for a good part of Thailand.

As for electrical, it's a huge mess here. We have blackouts constantly. That was a rare thing back home. I was a at a guys house yesterday. Very nice village. He laughed about the wiring saying when he changed a particular bulb, the whole house goes black. Electrical standards are just not followed properly here.

The US grows a significant amount of the produce it consumes. Oranges, apples, cherries, berries, etc. Being from California, you've obviously seen the miles and miles of fruit and vegetable farms. I miss fresh cherries and berries!!! But absolutely love the fruits here.

As for health standards, these reports are worth reading:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/571167-just-one-fifth-of-wastewater-in-thailand-is-being-treated/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3269779/

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/life/The-pesticides-on-our-plates-30188702.html

[bonobo]

May I ask what part of Thailand you live in that you experience all of this?

I have experienced a few roads in need of repair but no worse then where I currently live now in Calif. Generally speaking the roads are better in the US but not worlds apart. Personally dealing with the inept drivers in the US I would take Thai drivers over the fools I contend with every day but that is clearly a personal threshold limit. Some have far better driving and patience skills then others.

I do not see any of the rubbish you speak of where I am located. I will say I did see it in BKK frequently and it was a bit nasty Hence why BKK was nothing more than a stop over and leave.

In the US it is recommended that you do not drink any tap water in most states and most do not, its all bottled water like Thailand. Of course Brita and all the other water filtration companies in the US make a killing on water purification systems. Bottled water is just fine for me. I like it cold anyway.

I have a septic tank and leech field as do all my neighbors, pretty standard safe practices and used world wide

I have never experienced dangerous electrical installations. I have seen some really ugly wire messes in BKK along Wireless Road (which in itself is an oxymoron) but where I live its pretty normal. Telephone poles and wires.

Do not see any of the street, sidewalk issues you mentioned(This all sounds like BKK living)

As for food, my wife and I know the people that raise the pigs, chickens and fish. We grow our own vegetables and fruit and trade with neighbors who grow things we do not. I have to say this is WAY WAY better then the US. To keep costs down the US imports nearly all its fruit and veggies from countries with absolutely no controls but it allows them to be cheaper in the stores. You have zero idea what was used to grow them.

Again, not trying to cite a debate with you, just quite interested where you experience all those things. I would say if it was that bad for me I may not have ever moved or I would have given it a deeper consideration. I can see where those things you mentioned are marginal.

Having driven all over Thailand, I'll again debate this with you about the roads being better here and the drivers better. I lived 20 years in California, I know the roads quite well. The drivers are extremely aggressive in the US, that's for sure. But there are some terrible drivers here. A lot due to drunk driving. I'd hate to think of how many people I know who've been in accidents here with drunk drivers. And there are some absolutely wonderful roads, with proper guardrails, signage, drainage, shoulders, lane markings, etc.

Trash is everywhere. I was on a drive in the back roads of Pattaya yesterday. Trash everywhere. These are pretty much Thai only villages. Their sewage primarily goes into the storm drains, as does all the houses in my village. I walk on the beach several times a week. I know exactly where this effluent comes out into the ocean. Never see this in the US. One reason I don't swim at my local beach. Never. There is no sewage treatment for a good part of Thailand.

As for electrical, it's a huge mess here. We have blackouts constantly. That was a rare thing back home. I was a at a guys house yesterday. Very nice village. He laughed about the wiring saying when he changed a particular bulb, the whole house goes black. Electrical standards are just not followed properly here.

The US grows a significant amount of the produce it consumes. Oranges, apples, cherries, berries, etc. Being from California, you've obviously seen the miles and miles of fruit and vegetable farms. I miss fresh cherries and berries!!! But absolutely love the fruits here.

As for health standards, these reports are worth reading:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/571167-just-one-fifth-of-wastewater-in-thailand-is-being-treated/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3269779/

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/life/The-pesticides-on-our-plates-30188702.html

The US exports and imports about the same amount of agricultural products. A significant percentage of the imports, though, are flowers, which count as agricultural.

The US could be mostly self-sufficient, but people want fresh strawberries and grapes in January, and those have to come from the southern hemisphere.

[thailiketoo]

The US exports and imports about the same amount of agricultural products. A significant percentage of the imports, though, are flowers, which count as agricultural.

The US could be mostly self-sufficient, but people want fresh strawberries and grapes in January, and those have to come from the southern hemisphere.

I can't find a reference but I remember being taught in school that Arkansas could exist completely alone without anything from anyplace else. They have oil and gas and even diamond mines and of course chickens. Arkansas has a whole lot of chicken farms.

[thailiketoo]

It seems to me that people tend to focus on one thing instead of the overall. Some things will be better in one place but worse in another. If I average out the cost in both places they are about the same. I have no problem flat-out saying that Thailand has some of the worst roads and worst drivers of any place I've ever seen, and it proves it by being the 6th most dangerous place in the world to drive. How do you put a price on that?

Someone mentioned German cars. Maybe he meant Volkswagen which is one of the best selling cars in the world and is made in the USA and is cheap to buy.

For my 2 cents I'd just like to invite people to buy the following. Remember, a house will include the land in your name.

2.5 million baht with land, price is negotiable always.

2014 Toyota Corolla well equipped - 548K baht

15.6" Toshiba laptop with Windows 8.1 included 11,200 baht

40" HDTV 9500 baht

Edit: Where I live there is no sales (vat) tax and these are out-the-door prices. All but the house are brand new.

The little lie. It's the house price. What city are you comparing purchasing a used 2000 sq foot house in? Decatur has no ocean or mountains or tourist attractions. GA weather is very bad in the winter and too hot in the summer. I'd say the middle of Issan. Certainly not Chiang Mai or Bangkok. So what is a 20 year old 2000 square foot home going for in Issan? 800,000 baht with the land in the family name son or daughter (they are going to take care of you anyway so...). Lets do the house numbers. USA 2,544,000 baht Thailand 800,000 baht = 1,744,000 baht. Spend 250,000 baht to have a contractor in Thailand get the house up to whatever spec you want and you have saved a million and a half baht buying in Thailand.

Different strokes of course and I'm an old guy living on a pension. I do very well on my pension in Thailand kind of a Hugh Hefner with short dark haired women who don't speak English.

Trophy wife in USA cost me $52,000 (her auto, clothes and trinket payments) per year in expenses. Thailand $12,000 a year in expenses. So I'm doing fine. I just bought her a real Seiko diamond watch with mother of pearl for a pittance.

Tomorrow is going out to eat day and I'll spend a couple of fifty bucks on dinner at the best restaurant in town. The best place that everyone takes the selfies from. She'll be happy.

To recap; what is the most expensive expense? House Thailand less than half. Second most expensive? Partner expense. Thailand about 20% of USA expenditures.

Now if you want to compare a single guy renting an apartment in the USA and Thailand it's silly cheap in Thailand.

If you are a young working guy with children - go the USA. Old guy with young girlfriend or young guy with no girlfriend go to Thailand. Although I'd be hard pressed to recommend any young man who wants a future to live in Thailand. I didn't. I was here at 22 and went back home to make my fortune so I could retire to Thailand.

Edited September 20, 2014 by thailiketoo

[craigt3365]

Here's also something you'd rarely see in the US:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/761682-sattahip-investigates-water-supply-quality-after-610-fall-ill/

Water quality here is very dodgy....

[Kudel]

It seems to me that people tend to focus on one thing instead of the overall. Some things will be better in one place but worse in another. If I average out the cost in both places they are about the same. I have no problem flat-out saying that Thailand has some of the worst roads and worst drivers of any place I've ever seen, and it proves it by being the 6th most dangerous place in the world to drive. How do you put a price on that?

Someone mentioned German cars. Maybe he meant Volkswagen which is one of the best selling cars in the world and is made in the USA and is cheap to buy.

For my 2 cents I'd just like to invite people to buy the following. Remember, a house will include the land in your name.

2.5 million baht with land, price is negotiable always.

2014 Toyota Corolla well equipped - 548K baht

15.6" Toshiba laptop with Windows 8.1 included 11,200 baht

40" HDTV 9500 baht

Edit: Where I live there is no sales (vat) tax and these are out-the-door prices. All but the house are brand new.

The little lie. It's the house price. What city are you comparing purchasing a used 2000 sq foot house in? Decatur has no ocean or mountains or tourist attractions. GA weather is very bad in the winter and too hot in the summer. I'd say the middle of Issan. Certainly not Chiang Mai or Bangkok. So what is a 20 year old 2000 square foot home going for in Issan? 800,000 baht with the land in the family name son or daughter (they are going to take care of you anyway so...). Lets do the house numbers. USA 2,544,000 baht Thailand 800,000 baht = 1,744,000 baht. Spend 250,000 baht to have a contractor in Thailand get the house up to whatever spec you want and you have saved a million and a half baht buying in Thailand.

Different strokes of course and I'm an old guy living on a pension. I do very well on my pension in Thailand kind of a Hugh Hefner with short dark haired women who don't speak English.

Trophy wife in USA cost me $52,000 (her auto, clothes and trinket payments) per year in expenses. Thailand $12,000 a year in expenses. So I'm doing fine. I just bought her a real Seiko diamond watch with mother of pearl for a pittance.

Tomorrow is going out to eat day and I'll spend a couple of fifty bucks on dinner at the best restaurant in town. The best place that everyone takes the selfies from. She'll be happy.

To recap; what is the most expensive expense? House Thailand less than half. Second most expensive? Partner expense. Thailand about 20% of USA expenditures.

Now if you want to compare a single guy renting an apartment in the USA and Thailand it's silly cheap in Thailand.

If you are a young working guy with children - go the USA. Old guy with young girlfriend or young guy with no girlfriend go to Thailand. Although I'd be hard pressed to recommend any young man who wants a future to live in Thailand. I didn't. I was here at 22 and went back home to make my fortune so I could retire to Thailand.

Yeah sure and every five years you can spend more money renovating said cheap house Thai style and zone planning is also out of the question in Thailand ,I once was in a place called Nong Khi i think it was called a few foreigners had some mansions built and a few years later some Thai bussiness people built a manure factory there for the local farmers the hole place smelled like kaka 24/7.Or how many times have people read complaints after buying a sea view condo only to have another condo building being built blocking their sea view and apparently not all people want to move half way around the globe because the pussy expence ratio is better in Thailand think with the big head not the little one.

[thailiketoo]

Yeah sure and every five years you can spend more money renovating said cheap house Thai style and zone planning is also out of the question in Thailand ,I once was in a place called Nong Khi i think it was called a few foreigners had some mansions built and a few years later some Thai bussiness people built a manure factory there for the local farmers the hole place smelled like kaka 24/7.Or how many times have people read complaints after buying a sea view condo only to have another condo building being built blocking their sea view and apparently not all people want to move half way around the globe because the pussy expence ratio is better in Thailand think with the big head not the little one.

With home rents cheaper in Thailand than parking garages in USA it does make sense to rent in Thailand. I'm enclosing a photo of a manure factory for those that don't know.

[Kudel]

Yeah sure and every five years you can spend more money renovating said cheap house Thai style and zone planning is also out of the question in Thailand ,I once was in a place called Nong Khi i think it was called a few foreigners had some mansions built and a few years later some Thai bussiness people built a manure factory there for the local farmers the hole place smelled like kaka 24/7.Or how many times have people read complaints after buying a sea view condo only to have another condo building being built blocking their sea view and apparently not all people want to move half way around the globe because the pussy expence ratio is better in Thailand think with the big head not the little one.

With home rents cheaper in Thailand than parking garages in USA it does make sense to rent in Thailand. I'm enclosing a photo of a manure factory for those that don't know.

If ever intrested i rent out garage boxes in my home town they look better and are bigger then some of those shoe box condo's some of the tv high rollers live in it's 80euro a month.

[benj005]

Thailand is a great place if you're a retired person. Most foreigners who work in Thailand are mainly teachers, and we all know that you can't invest or save on that salary. You could tutor to boost your monthly salary, but then you'd be working all the time. You are unlikely to have a pension, and health care will be nonexistent.

I can understand why more retires are moving to SE Asia. The quality of life is good, and you can't beat the cost. America has gotten too expensive. Taxes have gotten out of hand. I live in NJ (South Jersey). My brother has a home in the garden state, and he pays nearly $7k in property taxes. He's a mailman, so he has a decent job with full benefits. North Jersey is even worse. I know people who pay $10k and more in property taxes. Then again you get what you pay for. The public schools in North jersey are considered the best in America. Houses are beautiful. Lawns are freshly cut. Crime is very low. Roads are clean and safe.

Compare that to Thailand. The government schools are lacking, and god forbid if your child has a disability. Soi dogs run around the streets. Most are friendly, but this isn't always the case. As foreigners we are always signaled out because Thais think we're millionaires. Thailand has the most dangerous roads in the world. You can't even take a bus without fearing for your life. Also, you need to watch what you say. Thais have freedom of speech, but only on a few issues. They can't voice their opinions if it's directed at people in power.

If you're a retire you can have fun in Thailand. If you're young/middle aged I think you're going to have a more difficult time. Especially if you need to support a family.

[craigt3365]

A troll post has been removed from view.

[Thighlander]

@Neversure

Its funny. Personally I have never felt at anytime that I lowered my living standards moving to Thailand. In many regards I feel I improved them as I shed myself of just buying stuff to buy stuff and I got to stop working long before the avg retirement age of most Americans. Now I will say that some judge their quality of life or their living standards/status solely based on material possessions or how much they can buy. I get that. Its clearly an individual preference. I am glad I was fortunate enough to have lived both to fairly compare.

Just for me, there are some living standards I can't control, and some bother me in LOS.

Crap roads and crazy drivers.

Litter and piles of rubbish that smell and may even have rats in them.

Water into your dwelling that isn't safe to drink.

Lack of sanitary sewer.

Dangerous and unpredictable electrical installations.

Dirty streets, sidewalk and buildings with sidewalks so cluttered with carts and cars and scooters that it's dangerous to walk. Sometimes you have to walk in the street where no one cares what happens to you.

Uncertainty of food quality and safety.

I could go on and on, but to me any of those is lowering my standard of living.

To keep costs down the US imports nearly all its fruit and veggies from countries with absolutely no controls but it allows them to be cheaper in the stores. You have zero idea what was used to grow them.

Let me guess. Michael Moore told you that. Agriculture in California is 45 billion usd per year. In the Winter months, we do import from Mexico. They use our seeds/sprays/ and technology...it is inspected by USDA. Some other stuff from South America, that will cost double to triple the in-season price in the US.

Name something not grown in the US....or even California....Oranges were 7 thb per Kg in Arizona last year....or free if you new someone with a tree.

[NeverSure]

It seems to me that people tend to focus on one thing instead of the overall. Some things will be better in one place but worse in another. If I average out the cost in both places they are about the same. I have no problem flat-out saying that Thailand has some of the worst roads and worst drivers of any place I've ever seen, and it proves it by being the 6th most dangerous place in the world to drive. How do you put a price on that?

Someone mentioned German cars. Maybe he meant Volkswagen which is one of the best selling cars in the world and is made in the USA and is cheap to buy.

For my 2 cents I'd just like to invite people to buy the following. Remember, a house will include the land in your name.

2.5 million baht with land, price is negotiable always.

2014 Toyota Corolla well equipped - 548K baht

15.6" Toshiba laptop with Windows 8.1 included 11,200 baht

40" HDTV 9500 baht

Edit: Where I live there is no sales (vat) tax and these are out-the-door prices. All but the house are brand new.

The little lie. It's the house price. What city are you comparing purchasing a used 2000 sq foot house in? Decatur has no ocean or mountains or tourist attractions. GA weather is very bad in the winter and too hot in the summer. I'd say the middle of Issan. Certainly not Chiang Mai or Bangkok. So what is a 20 year old 2000 square foot home going for in Issan? 800,000 baht with the land in the family name son or daughter (they are going to take care of you anyway so...). Lets do the house numbers. USA 2,544,000 baht Thailand 800,000 baht = 1,744,000 baht. Spend 250,000 baht to have a contractor in Thailand get the house up to whatever spec you want and you have saved a million and a half baht buying in Thailand.

Different strokes of course and I'm an old guy living on a pension. I do very well on my pension in Thailand kind of a Hugh Hefner with short dark haired women who don't speak English.

Trophy wife in USA cost me $52,000 (her auto, clothes and trinket payments) per year in expenses. Thailand $12,000 a year in expenses. So I'm doing fine. I just bought her a real Seiko diamond watch with mother of pearl for a pittance.

Tomorrow is going out to eat day and I'll spend a couple of fifty bucks on dinner at the best restaurant in town. The best place that everyone takes the selfies from. She'll be happy.

To recap; what is the most expensive expense? House Thailand less than half. Second most expensive? Partner expense. Thailand about 20% of USA expenditures.

Now if you want to compare a single guy renting an apartment in the USA and Thailand it's silly cheap in Thailand.

If you are a young working guy with children - go the USA. Old guy with young girlfriend or young guy with no girlfriend go to Thailand. Although I'd be hard pressed to recommend any young man who wants a future to live in Thailand. I didn't. I was here at 22 and went back home to make my fortune so I could retire to Thailand.

I understand what you're saying. I'm simply unable to enter into a conversation that includes me buying a house in Thailand because I can't own the land and I could lose it.

Therefore it is worthless to me and I'd never buy one. If I did buy one, it would literally have zero value on my balance sheet.

[thailiketoo]

I understand what you're saying. I'm simply unable to enter into a conversation that includes me buying a house in Thailand because I can't own the land and I could lose it.

Therefore it is worthless to me and I'd never buy one. If I did buy one, it would literally have zero value on my balance sheet.

I don't believe you. You could compare the cost of condos or rental properties but you won't because you know there is no comparison in price. You can own a condo in Thailand and you can own a condo in the USA. So what's the problem?

It is like me saying that I will only compare Etan trucks knowing that you can't buy one in the USA.

[Kudel]

I understand what you're saying. I'm simply unable to enter into a conversation that includes me buying a house in Thailand because I can't own the land and I could lose it.

Therefore it is worthless to me and I'd never buy one. If I did buy one, it would literally have zero value on my balance sheet.

I don't believe you. You could compare the cost of condos or rental properties but you won't because you know there is no comparison in price. You can own a condo in Thailand and you can own a condo in the USA. So what's the problem?

It is like me saying that I will only compare Etan trucks knowing that you can't buy one in the USA.

Again maybe zone planning and consumer rights or home owner rights are not the same in both country's ,the Thai government doesn't give a hoot about foreigners in property dispute's

[thailiketoo]

I understand what you're saying. I'm simply unable to enter into a conversation that includes me buying a house in Thailand because I can't own the land and I could lose it.

Therefore it is worthless to me and I'd never buy one. If I did buy one, it would literally have zero value on my balance sheet.

I don't believe you. You could compare the cost of condos or rental properties but you won't because you know there is no comparison in price. You can own a condo in Thailand and you can own a condo in the USA. So what's the problem?

It is like me saying that I will only compare Etan trucks knowing that you can't buy one in the USA.

Again maybe zone planning and consumer rights or home owner rights are not the same in both country's ,the Thai government doesn't give a hoot about foreigners in property dispute's

Not only the Thai government. You might want to google, "Right of eminent domain." That's one of the reasons I said renting in Thailand is a good idea but since Neversure knows that apartment rents are 80% less money in Thailand he refuses to debate the point.