Just moved back to the states after 5 years. Sticker shock.

[JAFO]

suppose it is all relative as to wht we are willing to consume! (and what we consider as being 'good' food)

I consume quite a lot of baked food, but I bake it myself and flour costs almost nothing (24 bht/kilo).

(Bread, pie, cake, biscuit)

I probable eat a lot better than you.

Interesting on baking. Either my wife or I BBQ our food both here and at home in Thailand. She BBQ's the pork for Nam Tok Moo or Kra Pao Moo, We salt and BBQ's the big fish, I showed her a trick with BBQing fish in Aluminum foil(like steaming it) with lemon and herbs which is now her favorite. We grill Chicken Thighs or wings. She boils the crab or shrimp. When she cooks eggs or makes an omelette she uses no oil at all, we have non stick pans. If she does use oil its Olive here and coconut there. My wife is extremely conscientious on cooking primarily as she is a degree'd nutritionist and worked in 2 hospitals in BKK setting up dietary plans for patients.

When we stop to eat at places on road trips she always looks on how the food is prepped and handled. She is pretty picky in Thailand but even if a place that is handling and cooking the food properly and is clean, its still WAY cheaper than the US. Nothing rarely exceeds $5 (150 bht) for us 2. The other night we went out for dinner at a Japanese restaurant here in Calif and for 2 it was $42 (1320 bht) and we sipped tea. Add any beverages to that and its $50 (1500 bht) or more.

By choice, I seldom eat western food here and never in Thailand. I quite enjoy Thai food and have for many many years. The biggest thing I like is the portion sizes. Here in the US its WAY too much food explaining a lot of the obesity

Edited September 21, 2014 by JAFO

[JAFO]

Wanted to revisit this thread for the sake of The OPs comment of sticker price shock. So last night my Wife and I were walking and happened by a restaurant called the Outback Steak house. Its a seemingly popular restaurant chain here.(I thnk someone posted a pic back a few pages). There was a descent line out front so the missus went and looked at the menu. With a few wrist wiggles with a few fingers in my direction I was coaxed into to eating there. My wife ordered the Mahi Mahi(White fish). I had not had beef in a long time so I had a medium cut prime rib. Both of us got veggies and a potato. We both had an Outback signature cocktail.

Firstly the food was marginal at best. Veggies were mush and the potato quite dry. Missus fish was Ok but wasn't spectacular. My hunk of prime rib was tough and not "Slow roasted with loads of Outback special herbs" as claimed.

When the check came the Wife was appalled. 2 dinners, 2 signature cocktails with tip, $77(2310 baht). I just laughed and said "Welcome to America". I will say this is pretty standard fare in the US at most restaurants. You get sub par food for a big price and a tip is expected.

As we sat at home we laughed about how long we could have eaten in Thailand on 2310 baht.

I have come to the conclusion that if you have copious amounts of money living here is easy. If you are in the 95-97% of the population, you live in debt and check to check or like the 46million people on government SNAP food stamp system.

[NeverSure]

Play fair. I didn't say a thing about rent.

No, I know you didn't but we could. Given that housing expense is by far the largest percent of living expense compare two equal places in Thailand and the States like NYC and Bangkok or Chiang Mai and San Francisco or Pattaya and Las Vegas. I'm open to discuss any other city comparisons that may be better. Compare rent to rent. Single retired man is the area I am familiar with in both the States and Thailand.

The other day on CNBC; they quoted a study showing that retirees were surprised to find that housing related costs are their biggest expense, with the average retiree in the US, spending 45% of their income on housing related expenses. Seen a lot of Americans refinance their homes at age 50+, re-starting the 30 year clock. These are often amounts well over 2000 usd per month. Then there is the reverse mortgage, which has been impIicated to border on fraud. I think the law in Thailand, restricting mortgages to those under 65 is likely a good idea. For no cost it provides a lot of security for Thais.

If a retired American has a $2,000 per month housing expense, it's an indication of poor planning and low assets. He could rent in most places for 1/2 that.

He needs to pull up stakes and move to a cheaper part of the US where a payment wouldn't be that high.

I have no house payments.

45% of income is as much as $2,000 means the guy makes more that $4K pm while retired. His budgeting and planning sucks. $4K would be a nice retirement income for non-idiots.

Edited October 4, 2014 by NeverSure

[sirineou]

Wanted to revisit this thread for the sake of The OPs comment of sticker price shock. So last night my Wife and I were walking and happened by a restaurant called the Outback Steak house. Its a seemingly popular restaurant chain here.(I thnk someone posted a pic back a few pages). There was a descent line out front so the missus went and looked at the menu. With a few wrist wiggles with a few fingers in my direction I was coaxed into to eating there. My wife ordered the Mahi Mahi(White fish). I had not had beef in a long time so I had a medium cut prime rib. Both of us got veggies and a potato. We both had an Outback signature cocktail.

Firstly the food was marginal at best. Veggies were mush and the potato quite dry. Missus fish was Ok but wasn't spectacular. My hunk of prime rib was tough and not "Slow roasted with loads of Outback special herbs" as claimed.

When the check came the Wife was appalled. 2 dinners, 2 signature cocktails with tip, $77(2310 baht). I just laughed and said "Welcome to America". I will say this is pretty standard fare in the US at most restaurants. You get sub par food for a big price and a tip is expected.

As we sat at home we laughed about how long we could have eaten in Thailand on 2310 baht.

I have come to the conclusion that if you have copious amounts of money living here is easy. If you are in the 95-97% of the population, you live in debt and check to check or like the 46million people on government SNAP food stamp system.

Maybe you dine in a very expensive area, in my area in NYC The outback is a relatively reasonable place to eat

below is a link to their menu and prices,, one of the reasons you paid as much might have being the drinks who tend to be expensive.

https://www.outbackonlineordering.com/#content=/Menu/ViewMenu/e8d9a6a2-9e72-48b4-9fd3-5a3c73f6bb3d&CategoryItemsContainer=/Menu/Category/53db0a5e-c595-4e19-afa3-5ac3e5f0ab73

I am not a big meat eater, but when I eat there I order the New York strip, I never had a bad meal there I also like the blooming Onion appetizer and their Thunder from down under desert. When my daughter was young, we used to go there for diner every weekend it was our special day out,she liked the cheese fries (a heaping plate of french fries covered with melted cheese and bacon) we only ate the appetizer and desert as it was too much food and took the main dish, home for later.

When we compare we need to compare apples with apples and oranges with oranges, at the Outback in NYC Prime rib and lobster ranges $25 -$31 I wonder how much the same would cost in Thailand the same applies to Thai food, Thai food is cheap in Thailand but more expensive in the US,

The problem IMO is that people have left the US for Years and and have not keep up with the market, both in terms of expenses and income. To live in NYC you need to have a three figure income, consequently things , might seem expensive to some one who has not keep up with the income market,.

But some things are less expensive than Thailand regardless of income. For instance, My wife just went to Thailand and is still there, clothing, shoes, perfume, for everyone she bought in the US at it is less expensive and better quality, She went there with three suitcases and is coming back with one.

Anyway this is my assessment.

[NeverSure]

I keep pointing out that there are good places in the US where housing is cheap. Buy this one for 2.7 mil. baht and it includes the land in your name. Under the price be sure to click on "estimate my monthly payment" and PITI will be under $500 pm because interest rates are low and taxes are cheap there.

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/2344-Maple-Ave_Morrow_GA_30260_M64048-54960?row=6&ex=GA589247938

Now, there are so many other things in the US that are cheaper by far than in Thailand that it will make up some difference. Cars, electronics and all other consumer items including food will blow Thailand away.

[JAFO]

I keep pointing out that there are good places in the US where housing is cheap. Buy this one for 2.7 mil. baht and it includes the land in your name. Under the price be sure to click on "estimate my monthly payment" and PITI will be under $500 pm because interest rates are low and taxes are cheap there.

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/2344-Maple-Ave_Morrow_GA_30260_M64048-54960?row=6&ex=GA589247938

Now, there are so many other things in the US that are cheaper by far than in Thailand that it will make up some difference. Cars, electronics and all other consumer items including food will blow Thailand away.

Neversure,

So I did some research on your link being the house is in Clayton county. Please look at this link

http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Clayton-Georgia.html

Please pay close attention to the crime rate averages and the ratio of sex offenders to population. 92 to 1 people to registered sex offenders and the crime rate is significantly higher in every category over the US average. So while it is $83K as you noted it has supported my comments on your low cost housing links you post, There is a reason why they are so low. So if a house picture for under $100K excites you then I recommend one go for it. Make sure you add bars to all windows and doors, alarms and don't let kids and a wife out after dark. Not a life I would want to lead to save a few bucks and pound my chest the land can be in my name.

Also did you map out how far from a descent town that home is?

[JAFO]

Wanted to revisit this thread for the sake of The OPs comment of sticker price shock. So last night my Wife and I were walking and happened by a restaurant called the Outback Steak house. Its a seemingly popular restaurant chain here.(I thnk someone posted a pic back a few pages). There was a descent line out front so the missus went and looked at the menu. With a few wrist wiggles with a few fingers in my direction I was coaxed into to eating there. My wife ordered the Mahi Mahi(White fish). I had not had beef in a long time so I had a medium cut prime rib. Both of us got veggies and a potato. We both had an Outback signature cocktail.

Firstly the food was marginal at best. Veggies were mush and the potato quite dry. Missus fish was Ok but wasn't spectacular. My hunk of prime rib was tough and not "Slow roasted with loads of Outback special herbs" as claimed.

When the check came the Wife was appalled. 2 dinners, 2 signature cocktails with tip, $77(2310 baht). I just laughed and said "Welcome to America". I will say this is pretty standard fare in the US at most restaurants. You get sub par food for a big price and a tip is expected.

As we sat at home we laughed about how long we could have eaten in Thailand on 2310 baht.

I have come to the conclusion that if you have copious amounts of money living here is easy. If you are in the 95-97% of the population, you live in debt and check to check or like the 46million people on government SNAP food stamp system.

Maybe you dine in a very expensive area, in my area in NYC The outback is a relatively reasonable place to eat

below is a link to their menu and prices,, one of the reasons you paid as much might have being the drinks who tend to be expensive.

https://www.outbackonlineordering.com/#content=/Menu/ViewMenu/e8d9a6a2-9e72-48b4-9fd3-5a3c73f6bb3d&CategoryItemsContainer=/Menu/Category/53db0a5e-c595-4e19-afa3-5ac3e5f0ab73

I am not a big meat eater, but when I eat there I order the New York strip, I never had a bad meal there I also like the blooming Onion appetizer and their Thunder from down under desert. When my daughter was young, we used to go there for diner every weekend it was our special day out,she liked the cheese fries (a heaping plate of french fries covered with melted cheese and bacon) we only ate the appetizer and desert as it was too much food and took the main dish, home for later.

When we compare we need to compare apples with apples and oranges with oranges, at the Outback in NYC Prime rib and lobster ranges $25 -$31 I wonder how much the same would cost in Thailand the same applies to Thai food, Thai food is cheap in Thailand but more expensive in the US,

The problem IMO is that people have left the US for Years and and have not keep up with the market, both in terms of expenses and income. To live in NYC you need to have a three figure income, consequently things , might seem expensive to some one who has not keep up with the income market,.

But some things are less expensive than Thailand regardless of income. For instance, My wife just went to Thailand and is still there, clothing, shoes, perfume, for everyone she bought in the US at it is less expensive and better quality, She went there with three suitcases and is coming back with one.

Anyway this is my assessment.

I absolutely agree the drinks added to the price. No argument from me but the food was still poor for what I paid. I backed out the drinks and the dinner was still near $50 with a tip if I assessed tip based on no drinks. While I don't crave beef much anymore to get that in Thailand would be pricey depending on where you are. I know in Hua Hin I have had some of the best Mantis Shrimp(Similar to lobster) with the fried Garlic and it was 200 baht per kg($3 per lb). Bought a bit under 2kg. Beef is hard to compare because I don't eat it often at all. I live near the SF bay area and they catch local Dungeness crab and it is ~250-300 baht ($8-10 per pound). Most full bodied crabs will cost you $12-15 bucks and not all that much meat in them other than the claws.

My wife does like your wife, takes many consumer products back as gifts to Thailand. Most of what she takes is simply not available there thus hard to compare some prices but to your point there are many things that are made with far better quality such as clothing. She will shop Ross and load up on clearance stuff. I guess its what one requires. I enjoy taking over things you cannot get in Thailand to share. The US clearly has a far larger selection in virtually every category. But we all tend to compare consumer products. Not all of us like to just go shopping to buy things, I do not find it a convenience but more a curse. However I am aware that is our culture here in the US. People get bored, go buy stuff. It makes people feel better.

NYC and California are similar in COL and both require a 6 fig salary to survive if just 2 people. Most now a days have multiple people living their home to share costs. Its why many kids are now not moving out until they are over 30. Easier to survive when only making $40 - $60K a year living at home. Its why we typically see 4-6 cars in front of every house. People have to have a car here, public transpo is pathetic. Can't afford a car and their own place. Choice is car.

All good points you made. For us it has been nice living in both places. We been able to exploit buying things here that are not available in Thailand and when in Thailand live for less because we can. Soon We will be back in TL full time when our house is completed.

Cheers

[craigt3365]

If a retired American has a $2,000 per month housing expense, it's an indication of poor planning and low assets. He could rent in most places for 1/2 that.

He needs to pull up stakes and move to a cheaper part of the US where a payment wouldn't be that high.

I have no house payments.

45% of income is as much as $2,000 means the guy makes more that $4K pm while retired. His budgeting and planning sucks. $4K would be a nice retirement income for non-idiots.

It depends on where you live, that's for sure. I've got friends whose rent in the US is around $500/month for a fully furnished house in an OK neighborhood. IMHO, $4k per month is a requirement for here in Thailand also. Depends on your lifestyle, and factoring in medical, car, house, travel, etc.

[craigt3365]

Wanted to revisit this thread for the sake of The OPs comment of sticker price shock. So last night my Wife and I were walking and happened by a restaurant called the Outback Steak house. Its a seemingly popular restaurant chain here.(I thnk someone posted a pic back a few pages). There was a descent line out front so the missus went and looked at the menu. With a few wrist wiggles with a few fingers in my direction I was coaxed into to eating there. My wife ordered the Mahi Mahi(White fish). I had not had beef in a long time so I had a medium cut prime rib. Both of us got veggies and a potato. We both had an Outback signature cocktail.

Firstly the food was marginal at best. Veggies were mush and the potato quite dry. Missus fish was Ok but wasn't spectacular. My hunk of prime rib was tough and not "Slow roasted with loads of Outback special herbs" as claimed.

When the check came the Wife was appalled. 2 dinners, 2 signature cocktails with tip, $77(2310 baht). I just laughed and said "Welcome to America". I will say this is pretty standard fare in the US at most restaurants. You get sub par food for a big price and a tip is expected.

As we sat at home we laughed about how long we could have eaten in Thailand on 2310 baht.

I have come to the conclusion that if you have copious amounts of money living here is easy. If you are in the 95-97% of the population, you live in debt and check to check or like the 46million people on government SNAP food stamp system.

Maybe you dine in a very expensive area, in my area in NYC The outback is a relatively reasonable place to eat

below is a link to their menu and prices,, one of the reasons you paid as much might have being the drinks who tend to be expensive.

https://www.outbackonlineordering.com/#content=/Menu/ViewMenu/e8d9a6a2-9e72-48b4-9fd3-5a3c73f6bb3d&CategoryItemsContainer=/Menu/Category/53db0a5e-c595-4e19-afa3-5ac3e5f0ab73

I am not a big meat eater, but when I eat there I order the New York strip, I never had a bad meal there I also like the blooming Onion appetizer and their Thunder from down under desert. When my daughter was young, we used to go there for diner every weekend it was our special day out,she liked the cheese fries (a heaping plate of french fries covered with melted cheese and bacon) we only ate the appetizer and desert as it was too much food and took the main dish, home for later.

When we compare we need to compare apples with apples and oranges with oranges, at the Outback in NYC Prime rib and lobster ranges $25 -$31 I wonder how much the same would cost in Thailand the same applies to Thai food, Thai food is cheap in Thailand but more expensive in the US,

The problem IMO is that people have left the US for Years and and have not keep up with the market, both in terms of expenses and income. To live in NYC you need to have a three figure income, consequently things , might seem expensive to some one who has not keep up with the income market,.

But some things are less expensive than Thailand regardless of income. For instance, My wife just went to Thailand and is still there, clothing, shoes, perfume, for everyone she bought in the US at it is less expensive and better quality, She went there with three suitcases and is coming back with one.

Anyway this is my assessment.

I've eaten at the Outback many times. Never had a bad meal and I'm quite critical. To get the same meal here would be more than what JAFO paid, as Thailand doesn't have chain restaurants like these (well, good ones) that have lower costs due to consolidation of production expenses, etc. So you'd have to find a restaurant that imports meat (an expensive proposition). And as we all know, throw in some good wine and you've upped the cost quite a bit.

Prime rib...now that's something I really miss. I just saw on your link seared ahi tuna for $12. Add in tax, and you're at about $14 (450B)? Good luck finding something similar here for the same price. It's real hit and miss. Whereas at this chain, the quality is pretty much guaranteed.

What a beautiful place to live. I'm assuming you visited Harriman State Park? I use to go there for walks from time to time as part of a local club.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_County,_New_York#mediaviewer/File:Island_Pond-Harriman_State_Park.jpg

[NoshowJones]

One thing I want to be very clear about, I am not bashing the US. It was good to me in my early years but I saw the writing on the wall. I am just saying it is really expensive, you had better plan on living in debt, paying high living costs, living with a lot of stress, working a lot and paying tons of taxes. Its not the land of the free and it costs a wad of cash to live here. If you make a lot then its all good but anything less then $5K a month net you are struggling.

I love my life in Thailand.

You could be talking about the UK also. I also love my life in Thailand.

[NoshowJones]

So we can conclude that while here, you lived wholly like a Thai?

No cheese or wine? No single malts or cream cheese? No Doritos? No rib-eyes? No bacon and sausage for breakfast? No tacos or burritos? All of which are still cheaper in the States.

Living "frugally" can be quite a yawn inducing existence.

I understand your sentiments, but me, I'm not interested in "getting by." I'd rather work hard and play hard. I've got five years here non-stop myself, and can't wait to go back, both to work at a very nice salary, and to eat, eat, eat.

It's all relevant.

I pay good money to visit a heart specialist educated in the West.

The items you listed, "cheese or wine? single malts or cream cheese? Doritos? rib-eyes? bacon and sausage for breakfast? Tacos or burritos? Are all ingredients for an early and painful death. (with the exception of a glass of red wine occasionally)

So I and every other heart conscious person thinks you are a loony. In Thailand at least the market is weighted to give me an extra incentive not to eat things that can kill me quick.

There is a shop close to me that raises vegetables organically and will make me two vegetable shakes (red and green) per day for 40 baht each.

PS, I'm not fat and when I sweat I don't smell like old cheese.

I do not have any heart or weight problems, but I wish there was a shop near me where I could buy vegetable shakes, do you know what vegetables they use? I suppose I could make my own, but all the preparing puts me off.

[JAFO]

If a retired American has a $2,000 per month housing expense, it's an indication of poor planning and low assets. He could rent in most places for 1/2 that.

He needs to pull up stakes and move to a cheaper part of the US where a payment wouldn't be that high.

I have no house payments.

45% of income is as much as $2,000 means the guy makes more that $4K pm while retired. His budgeting and planning sucks. $4K would be a nice retirement income for non-idiots.

It depends on where you live, that's for sure. I've got friends whose rent in the US is around $500/month for a fully furnished house in an OK neighborhood. IMHO, $4k per month is a requirement for here in Thailand also. Depends on your lifestyle, and factoring in medical, car, house, travel, etc.

Yikes...... $4K(120K baht a month) a requirement? Really? While we are all different what are the expectations you require that demand that much a month? I have tough time spending 40K baht a month and my wife and I live quite well.

[JAFO]

I keep pointing out that there are good places in the US where housing is cheap. Buy this one for 2.7 mil. baht and it includes the land in your name. Under the price be sure to click on "estimate my monthly payment" and PITI will be under $500 pm because interest rates are low and taxes are cheap there.

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/2344-Maple-Ave_Morrow_GA_30260_M64048-54960?row=6&ex=GA589247938

Now, there are so many other things in the US that are cheaper by far than in Thailand that it will make up some difference. Cars, electronics and all other consumer items including food will blow Thailand away.

Absolute tosh. If you knew anything about Thailand you would be ashamed to write such nonsense. Since you cannot own land in Thailand you keep comparing owning land. You can compare rental costs or condo purchase costs if you want to be fair. More than 30% of the average person's expense is housing costs, so you want to compare something else. During the past year I have purchased a large screen TV, Playstation, Computer and Tablet and phone. The difference in price was peanuts. Public transportation is ridiculously cheap in Thailand. Housing is a no brainer if you compare like locations. I know you want to compare some Okie from Muskogee redneck villa as opposed to seaside condos in Thailand but anyone knows they are not the same thing.

I don't know why you persists. We who have retired to Thailand are living better; way better than we could live in The West. Why do you think we stay here? Do you think we don't check prices of land and housing back home where we came from? Do you think we don't keep up with medical prices and food prices and transportation costs?

You think we are all brain dead idiots? It is cheaper, more fun and safer and better weather and better medical care and better food and ........ Gee why do you think we stay? Why do you think young folks jump out of balconies when they find out they can't stay in Thailand any more? Because things are better back home?

Stop trying to stack the deck and make a real comparison. If you like German beer go to Germany. If you like English Cheddar go to England. If you like Thai women come to Thailand. See what I'm saying? You can't expect to get great beer, cheese and women all in the same pub. One has to make choices. Thailand has great chain restaurants like Fuji if you like Kobe beef or Salmon Sushi. I've eaten at Fuji once a month for 5 years and never a bad meal; it's never hit and miss and it's food that my cardiologist approves of instead of killer portions of beef and bloody, blooming fried onions at (3000 calories for the onions).

Excellent post Thailiketoo. Shabushi comes to mind as well. Who wants a deep fried onion blossom for 300 baht?? It sounds nasty. While I am not busting Neversure's chops but it is getting old to see posts with links to homes that are cheap when they are in utter low rent, high crime areas with the intent to say "You can own the land"... I say....who cares? I'd rather not own the land. There is no benefit in it

[thailiketoo]

I keep pointing out that there are good places in the US where housing is cheap. Buy this one for 2.7 mil. baht and it includes the land in your name. Under the price be sure to click on "estimate my monthly payment" and PITI will be under $500 pm because interest rates are low and taxes are cheap there.

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/2344-Maple-Ave_Morrow_GA_30260_M64048-54960?row=6&ex=GA589247938

Now, there are so many other things in the US that are cheaper by far than in Thailand that it will make up some difference. Cars, electronics and all other consumer items including food will blow Thailand away.

What's your point? 1. A Farang can't own land in Thailand? OK everyone knows that. 2. It's cheaper to live in America than Thailand? Nonsense, everyone knows that too. 3. A family man would be better off raising children in America? OK, I won't debate that. I raised my children in America.

You simply can't compare owing land in the US and Thailand. No matter how many times you try. Because there is no comparison.

[thailiketoo]

I keep pointing out that there are good places in the US where housing is cheap. Buy this one for 2.7 mil. baht and it includes the land in your name. Under the price be sure to click on "estimate my monthly payment" and PITI will be under $500 pm because interest rates are low and taxes are cheap there.

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/2344-Maple-Ave_Morrow_GA_30260_M64048-54960?row=6&ex=GA589247938

Now, there are so many other things in the US that are cheaper by far than in Thailand that it will make up some difference. Cars, electronics and all other consumer items including food will blow Thailand away.

Absolute tosh. If you knew anything about Thailand you would be ashamed to write such nonsense. Since you cannot own land in Thailand you keep comparing owning land. You can compare rental costs or condo purchase costs if you want to be fair. More than 30% of the average person's expense is housing costs, so you want to compare something else. During the past year I have purchased a large screen TV, Playstation, Computer and Tablet and phone. The difference in price was peanuts. Public transportation is ridiculously cheap in Thailand. Housing is a no brainer if you compare like locations. I know you want to compare some Okie from Muskogee redneck villa as opposed to seaside condos in Thailand but anyone knows they are not the same thing.

I don't know why you persists. We who have retired to Thailand are living better; way better than we could live in The West. Why do you think we stay here? Do you think we don't check prices of land and housing back home where we came from? Do you think we don't keep up with medical prices and food prices and transportation costs?

You think we are all brain dead idiots? It is cheaper, more fun and safer and better weather and better medical care and better food and ........ Gee why do you think we stay? Why do you think young folks jump out of balconies when they find out they can't stay in Thailand any more? Because things are better back home?

Stop trying to stack the deck and make a real comparison. If you like German beer go to Germany. If you like English Cheddar go to England. If you like Thai women come to Thailand. See what I'm saying? You can't expect to get great beer, cheese and women all in the same pub. One has to make choices. Thailand has great chain restaurants like Fuji if you like Kobe beef or Salmon Sushi. I've eaten at Fuji once a month for 5 years and never a bad meal; it's never hit and miss and it's food that my cardiologist approves of instead of killer portions of beef and bloody, blooming fried onions at (3000 calories for the onions).

Excellent post Thailiketoo. Shabushi comes to mind as well. Who wants a deep fried onion blossom for 300 baht?? It sounds nasty. While I am not busting Neversure's chops but it is getting old to see posts with links to homes that are cheap when they are in utter low rent, high crime areas with the intent to say "You can own the land"... I say....who cares? I'd rather not own the land. There is no benefit in it

I just got back from NIKUYA Japanese BBQ Buffet By OISHI. Major chain. All you can eat steak, salmon, Sushi, Vegetables, salad and dessert. Tell me please. Why oh why would anyone move to Thailand and want to eat the same food available in Oklahoma? I mean if one wants corn fed beef go to Kansas if one wants German beer go to Germany. Cheap is going to be cheap in areas of the world famous for certain specialties.

Edited October 5, 2014 by thailiketoo

[craigt3365]

If a retired American has a $2,000 per month housing expense, it's an indication of poor planning and low assets. He could rent in most places for 1/2 that.

He needs to pull up stakes and move to a cheaper part of the US where a payment wouldn't be that high.

I have no house payments.

45% of income is as much as $2,000 means the guy makes more that $4K pm while retired. His budgeting and planning sucks. $4K would be a nice retirement income for non-idiots.

It depends on where you live, that's for sure. I've got friends whose rent in the US is around $500/month for a fully furnished house in an OK neighborhood. IMHO, $4k per month is a requirement for here in Thailand also. Depends on your lifestyle, and factoring in medical, car, house, travel, etc.

Yikes...... $4K(120K baht a month) a requirement? Really? While we are all different what are the expectations you require that demand that much a month? I have tough time spending 40K baht a month and my wife and I live quite well.

It's amazing how things add up. New tires for the car? 12k Baht. Some dental work, 60k. Pool needed regrouting, 20k. Water pump died, 8k. TV died, 25k. Maid, gardener, pool boy, etc...

Our elec bill is now 9.5k. I mentioned this to a neighbor and he said "that's great!". He said his was close to double that. For a few personal reasons, my expenses are more than they really should be. And for these reasons, I live here. I could not live this lifestyle in the US. Never happen.

[craigt3365]

I keep pointing out that there are good places in the US where housing is cheap. Buy this one for 2.7 mil. baht and it includes the land in your name. Under the price be sure to click on "estimate my monthly payment" and PITI will be under $500 pm because interest rates are low and taxes are cheap there.

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/2344-Maple-Ave_Morrow_GA_30260_M64048-54960?row=6&ex=GA589247938

Now, there are so many other things in the US that are cheaper by far than in Thailand that it will make up some difference. Cars, electronics and all other consumer items including food will blow Thailand away.

What's your point? 1. A Farang can't own land in Thailand? OK everyone knows that. 2. It's cheaper to live in America than Thailand? Nonsense, everyone knows that too. 3. A family man would be better off raising children in America? OK, I won't debate that. I raised my children in America.

You simply can't compare owing land in the US and Thailand. No matter how many times you try. Because there is no comparison.

If you have a Thai wife, you can own land here. Please, no comments on trust, etc. Let's not go off topic on that one.

[thailiketoo]

I keep pointing out that there are good places in the US where housing is cheap. Buy this one for 2.7 mil. baht and it includes the land in your name. Under the price be sure to click on "estimate my monthly payment" and PITI will be under $500 pm because interest rates are low and taxes are cheap there.

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/2344-Maple-Ave_Morrow_GA_30260_M64048-54960?row=6&ex=GA589247938

Now, there are so many other things in the US that are cheaper by far than in Thailand that it will make up some difference. Cars, electronics and all other consumer items including food will blow Thailand away.

What's your point? 1. A Farang can't own land in Thailand? OK everyone knows that. 2. It's cheaper to live in America than Thailand? Nonsense, everyone knows that too. 3. A family man would be better off raising children in America? OK, I won't debate that. I raised my children in America.

You simply can't compare owing land in the US and Thailand. No matter how many times you try. Because there is no comparison.

If you have a Thai wife, you can own land here. Please, no comments on trust, etc. Let's not go off topic on that one.

OK by me. Neversure is the one who always brings up owing land. I don't think it is relevant. You can buy or you can rent the cost of living expenses are usually figured out per month or per year not per lifetime.

The bank will own my house anyplace I live. So it is meaningless to me. I have housing costs. I've lived in Thailand for the past ten years. Cost me the same to live 10 years in Thailand as it cost me to live one year in the States. But that's only me. My wife has a good job and we don't have children and live outside of a tourist area.

[bkkheat]

I was thinking if going back to Australia but after a month holiday there, I changed my mind. I got a good job here paying a little north on 100k a month and I stay in a decent place, plenty of money for booze and parties. Can go to work late and my boss doesn't care.

Sure I can get a better salary in Oz, but it is a lot more fun here.

Would be hard for me on something like 50k a month but I know some people getting that and loving it here. It just depends on what you find important

[bonobo]

Just got back from the US and had a not-so-nice shock. A week before we left, our cat, which we were taking to the States, got into a fight with a dog and lost. We had multiple trips to the vet, surgery, meds, etc. It all came out to around $500, I think.

In order to leave Thailand, we had to pay another 5,000 baht for a Thai vet certificate (why a cat needs a certificate to leave Thailand is a mystery to me) and a chip (and why a chip when the cat will not be in the country?)

A week after we arrived in the US, the cat was lethargic. The wife wanted to take him to the vet. We took him, the vet did some tests, and basically said he was fine, but maybe had a cold. The bill? $717!

[canarysun]

It appears that your cat lives a more expensive life than me! lol

[JAFO]

If a retired American has a $2,000 per month housing expense, it's an indication of poor planning and low assets. He could rent in most places for 1/2 that.

He needs to pull up stakes and move to a cheaper part of the US where a payment wouldn't be that high.

I have no house payments.

45% of income is as much as $2,000 means the guy makes more that $4K pm while retired. His budgeting and planning sucks. $4K would be a nice retirement income for non-idiots.

It depends on where you live, that's for sure. I've got friends whose rent in the US is around $500/month for a fully furnished house in an OK neighborhood. IMHO, $4k per month is a requirement for here in Thailand also. Depends on your lifestyle, and factoring in medical, car, house, travel, etc.

Yikes...... $4K(120K baht a month) a requirement? Really? While we are all different what are the expectations you require that demand that much a month? I have tough time spending 40K baht a month and my wife and I live quite well.

It's amazing how things add up. New tires for the car? 12k Baht. Some dental work, 60k. Pool needed regrouting, 20k. Water pump died, 8k. TV died, 25k. Maid, gardener, pool boy, etc...

Our elec bill is now 9.5k. I mentioned this to a neighbor and he said "that's great!". He said his was close to double that. For a few personal reasons, my expenses are more than they really should be. And for these reasons, I live here. I could not live this lifestyle in the US. Never happen.

I see, clearly different lives. However what you listed as costs seem more like incidentals and not monthly living costs(tires every 3 to 4 years, Pool regrouting every xx years, Water pump failure is random as is TV). The maid, pool boy and gardener are all personal preferences but clearly not needed if one does the work himself.

I fully understand the electric bill. Some prefer or require a 70 degree house all the time and all the lights on. We have ceiling fans and never leave lights on hence an electric bill never exceeding 1500 baht a month and that was with our old Teak house, our new home will be even more efficient. House size has a huge impact on monthly living costs.

But as you noted, I could never live on 40-60,000 baht a month here in the US with any quality of life.. Sheeese my current rent is near 70,000 k baht here in the US.

[JAFO]

It appears that your cat lives a more expensive life than me! lol

Yeah it appears his cat lives a way better life than most folks. My aunt has spent thousands and thousands on her couple of dogs. I just never understood that. Of course I grew up on a farm so animals are animals. If one fell ill, it either healed itself or was euthanized, end of story. $717 is a lot of cash.

[Toknarok]

I wonder how many expats in this Country have servants? Maids, gardeners, I reckon not one expat could afford a servant in their home countries.

[craigt3365]

Just got back from the US and had a not-so-nice shock. A week before we left, our cat, which we were taking to the States, got into a fight with a dog and lost. We had multiple trips to the vet, surgery, meds, etc. It all came out to around $500, I think.

In order to leave Thailand, we had to pay another 5,000 baht for a Thai vet certificate (why a cat needs a certificate to leave Thailand is a mystery to me) and a chip (and why a chip when the cat will not be in the country?)

A week after we arrived in the US, the cat was lethargic. The wife wanted to take him to the vet. We took him, the vet did some tests, and basically said he was fine, but maybe had a cold. The bill? $717!

Vets in the US are not cheap. I think we paid close to $500 to bring my mother's dog here, not including the air transport expenses! It's ridiculous. But, what can you do??

[canarysun]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Just got back from the US and had a not-so-nice shock. A week before we left, our cat, which we were taking to the States, got into a fight with a dog and lost. We had multiple trips to the vet, surgery, meds, etc. It all came out to around $500, I think.

In order to leave Thailand, we had to pay another 5,000 baht for a Thai vet certificate (why a cat needs a certificate to leave Thailand is a mystery to me) and a chip (and why a chip when the cat will not be in the country?)

A week after we arrived in the US, the cat was lethargic. The wife wanted to take him to the vet. We took him, the vet did some tests, and basically said he was fine, but maybe had a cold. The bill? $717!

Vets in the US are not cheap. I think we paid close to $500 to bring my mother's dog here, not including the air transport expenses! It's ridiculous. But, what can you do??

I must admit i am rather fortunate ( or unfortunate ) to not have any Mother,Father or any Pets in my life but i am seriously considering getting a " Squirrel " for a pet.Some of our viewers my find the idea a bit " ponsy " but i have seen quite a few of the Thais with them.The Squirrel would sit on my shoulder whilst out on a gentle stroll and would live with me in my room.( i would feed it on " nuts " from the local market ) The lovely lady who runs the small complex where i live is slightly concerned in case the bloody thing should escape causing " havoc & mayhem " throughout the building..( but i think she is just being a bit eccentric.....)

F.J

[thehelmsman]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Just got back from the US and had a not-so-nice shock. A week before we left, our cat, which we were taking to the States, got into a fight with a dog and lost. We had multiple trips to the vet, surgery, meds, etc. It all came out to around $500, I think.

In order to leave Thailand, we had to pay another 5,000 baht for a Thai vet certificate (why a cat needs a certificate to leave Thailand is a mystery to me) and a chip (and why a chip when the cat will not be in the country?)

A week after we arrived in the US, the cat was lethargic. The wife wanted to take him to the vet. We took him, the vet did some tests, and basically said he was fine, but maybe had a cold. The bill? $717!

Vets in the US are not cheap. I think we paid close to $500 to bring my mother's dog here, not including the air transport expenses! It's ridiculous. But, what can you do??

I must admit i am rather fortunate ( or unfortunate ) to not have any Mother,Father or any Pets in my life but i am seriously considering getting a " Squirrel " for a pet.Some of our viewers my find the idea a bit " ponsy " but i have seen quite a few of the Thais with them.The Squirrel would sit on my shoulder whilst out on a gentle stroll and would live with me in my room.( i would feed it on " nuts " from the local market ) The lovely lady who runs the small complex where i live is slightly concerned in case the bloody thing should escape causing " havoc & mayhem " throughout the building..( but i think she is just being a bit eccentric.....)

F.J

Classic case of the pot calling the kettle black.