Land Purchase Problem - Owner Died!

[simon43]

Here's an interesting problem that I find myself in:

A few years ago, I (my Thai company), started the purchase of some land in Phuket. A purchase contract was signed by myself and the seller. This contracted stipulated some stage payments which I made. however after all payments had been made, the seller seemed in no hurry to sign the final documents to enable ownership transfer.

Despite hassling my lawyer, the matter dragged on and on.

Finally, I was informed that the seller had died!

Checking into this, it seems that indeed the seller had died, without signing the final transfer documents. The purchase contract was legally binding on his heirs, so there looked to be some hope of completing the transfer.

However, no-one is able to locate the heirs and new owners of the land! I am left several million out of pocket and unable to take ownership of the land.

The land itself looks 'kosher', and was recently measured by the local land department. There is no suspicion that it was one of those dodgy land deals selling land that was not owned by the seller. ( saw the original NS3G documents..)

But how can I track down the new heirs? My contract states that if the sale is not completed within a certain timeframe, then I can take legal action to force the seller to complete, or force them to pay me back all my money plus interest,.

Is it possible to take ownership of the land 'by default', since all payments to purchase the land have been made etc.

I could just walk away and save myself lawyer fees and headaches. But it's a nice piece of land, (not worth a huge amount)

Advice welcome!

Simon

(PS - My big mistake in this was that I 'assumed' that the lawyer handling the sale was putting the money I paid into a holding account, to be handed over to the seller on completion. In fact, he just gave my payments straight to the seller....)

[Thaipwriter]

I would start suing the lawyer tomorrow for handing over the money....as long as you have written agreement that it was to be held until transfer.

[BKK90210]

One way of tracking down the heir(s)...

Have your lawyer find out the seller's thai-ID card number, this will link to his current TabienBaan and hopefully one/or few of them on the list in the tabienBaan will be his heir(s) to your property....unless he has the will stated otherwise

Edited July 12, 2006 by BKK90210

[sramkok-pratum]

Does your lawyer have some kind of documents from the seller that saller get your each payments? If yes your lawyer should know what to do cause you have an purchase ageement. Your lawyer can ask to get court order for transfer title. Go to KROM TEE DIN กรมที่ดิน dept of land and ask them yourself cause your case it's quite happen lot. If you not sure about your lawyer.

What is your lawyer he/she not gonna come up with some options for you?

[Chang_paarp]

In a western country you would lodge a claim agains the estate of the person. This would prevent prevent the probate office allowing the transfer of all assets and dispersement in the will. The family will have a big insentive to fix the problem then.

Of course you are not in a western country and the rules may well be different.

Talk to a different lawyer.

[simon43]

Yes, I realise that my lawyer is total cr*p. I am talking to another lawyer right now and some of your suggestions sound useful. I'll let you know how it all goes.

Simon

[Dragonman]

There are a couple of options your lawyer could have taken.

Either, as Chang_paarp suggested, a claim against the estate probate;

Or, a Civil Case, where an ex parte judgement could be made if the heirs could not be found. This is now allowable under Thai Law. An Interlocutory Injunction could be applied for stopping the sale of the land until the Case is heard.

[kenk3z]

Most of us would be pretty skeptical and reluctant to make such "advance payments" in these circumstances - either in Thailand or our home countries. For example, I won't even make a $15USD insurance co-payment to my doctor in cash without a written receipt.

You should be pretty sharp by now having lived in Thailand for awhile. What was supposed to be the advantage to you with the advance payments? Did you not have the total amount ready to complete the deal at once?

Your "lawyer" may have kept a portion of the "take". I don't believe this is someone you can work with again except through another (reputable) lawyer.

Thank you for posting your difficulty - should be educational for others - and at least we can offer suggestions. You can take my comments in the context of someone who doesn't really even trust ATM transactions in Thailand.

kenk3z

Edited July 16, 2006 by kenk3z

[Digger]

Most of us would be pretty skeptical and reluctant to make such "advance payments" in these circumstances - either in Thailand or our home countries. For example, I won't even make a $15USD insurance co-payment to my doctor in cash without a written receipt.

You should be pretty sharp by now having lived in Thailand for awhile. What was supposed to be the advantage to you with the advance payments? Did you not have the total amount ready to complete the deal at once?

Your "lawyer" may have kept a portion of the "take". I don't believe this is someone you can work with again except through another (reputable) lawyer.

Thank you for posting your difficulty - should be educational for others - and at least we can offer suggestions. You can take my comments in the context of someone who doesn't really even trust ATM transactions in Thailand.

kenk3z

You will see once you see many of Simon's post's that common sense and good judgement does not often go hand in hand with his business decisions. Still, always makes for entertaining reading.

[Blue Unicorn]

You will see once you see many of Simon's post's that common sense and good judgement does not often go hand in hand with his business decisions. Still, always makes for entertaining reading.

Entertaining is the word....However even if someone lacks common sense, it is still a nasty thing to happen to anyone. I hope this man can get his money back.

The biggest problem with so many things like this, is that foreigners in Thailand believe and trust their girlfriends judgements. They forget that firstly they are normally ill educated bar girls and/or are alot younger, with no worldly experience. Not to say this is what happened here, but it is very common mistake. I have friends who do it all the time and I just laugh. I tell them...if you were in Europe or USA and you wanted legal advice, or business advice etc...would you ask a 14 year old ill eduacted person....so why the heck do they do that in Thailand ? You ask other professional expats who are involved productively in business or have some knowledge.

Good luck with getting your money back andmaybe treat it as a lesson to not repeat again !

[simon43]

A few answers to your comments:

Firstly, this incident occured several years ago, when I had just moved to Thailand. I wished to purchase some land and consulted the legal guy in Phuket - who BTW, is not Thai but is a partner in a Thai legal firm. I took his advance re the sales contract etc.

My GF of the time was not involved really. She certainly had no input re the purchase contract except that it was signed by both her and myself. The intention was to put the land paper in her name, but of course this never happened since the seller never got to the land office before he died. This ex GF has now signed legal papers to transfer this land into my Thai wife's name, should the purchase process finally complete.

Yes, I have receipts from the legal guy for all sums paid as per the purchase contract.

Basically, the incident 'bogged down' because of a lazy legal guy and a dying seller.......

I can change legal guys (I have done), but I can't bring the seller back to life!

But certainly my mistake was not to insist on an escrow account for these monies, (at the time I 'assumed' that a lawyer would hold client's monies oin escrow. That was one big, incorrect assumption!!)

Anyway, this matter is now with a Public Prosecutor in BKK, (I made some good friends over the past few years...)

Simon

Edited July 19, 2006 by simon43