How Does Education in Cambodia compare with Thailand?

[Scott]

Here is an interesting link to a story about what happened in Cambodia when they stopped cheating:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/forum/187-cambodia-news/

I wonder how this compares to Thailand?

[meand]

That is pretty bad. I gotta say, it was hard to cheat at my school. What happens though is the tests just get easier. There is no way to tease all the factors apart to see how Thailand compares, but in my opinion the education simply can't get much worse than Thailand currently has. Good students are going to learn of you thrown them a book and say "the test is on the book at the end of the semester". Meaning, they learn no matter what. I rank schools on how the middle to lower levels learn, and in Thailand it could not be worse, really. They are doing nothing, learning nothing and being passed and patted on the back by everybody. Talk about a pig with some lipstick, this is a giant pig with a whole lot of brightly colored lipstick.

It kinda reminds me of that great dog show. The guys says "I train the humans not the dogs". When you reward a child by passing them for doing nothing, they think they are doing good. It's no different than petting your dog when he jumps on you.... he thinks he's good so he'll keep doing it. Thailand needs to train more of its humans. That's the interesting part, it's not the kids but the adults who are causing all the problems.

Edited September 3, 2014 by meand

[culicine]

As a comparison, one of my best students got into medicine on the strength of failing the PAT1 maths exam. He was in the top one percent in the country with his score. Yet the highest score was an incredible 297/300. Wonder who got that!

The average scores in O-Net here are abysmal - 25-40% on average, across subjects, for a multiple choice test. One can surmise that about 60% of the countries population learned very little of the curriculum, based on those results.

The problem is the learning culture here, thought I think the exams are too hard, in the main, for the average student here. Many of my students say - learn (for the test), then forget. The emphasis on exams means kids think they are just learning to pass a test, and not to gain knowledge for some greater purpose. Things will change when the attitude towards learning changes. Getting rid of the no fail policy will help too, but not solve all the problems.

[ebean001]

There are a lot of concern about Thai education. I think one concern many people miss is the fact that parents really don't help much. Also, I would question the content of the text books. something tells me they stress reading, writing, and speaking the language but limited on all else.

take the challenge - ask any thai other than a 3, 4 or 5th grader what 7 times 5 equals. i have met thai students beyond the 6th grade who have no idea of the answer. they don't need to know any more. go figure that one out.

[laobali]

The parents (and grandparents and ...) can't help much because most of them have been through the same woefully deficient system. Who teaches the teachers?

[TheSiemReaper]

I don't think it's possible for any education system to be worse than Cambodia's. During the period of French occupation there was one school. Before that there had been none. Sihanouk opened schools beginning in 1953 but the Pol Pot era put an end to that. Cambodian education is essentially the blind leading the blind in most cases. Teaching staff are paid less than nothing and are nearly all uniquely unqualified to teach anything of value. Throw in the past 3 decades of "buy your certificates" and it's a total disaster. It's good to see steps being taken to weed out the cheating, though you have to suspect that this is Hun Sen sending a warning to teachers that they need to stop voting for the opposition rather than a serious attempt to make changes, but it's not enough. It will take decades before Cambodia is even close to Thailand in education terms.

[dao16]

It is the learning culture, and it is thoroughly entrenched in almost every layer of society. The biggest one is the no fail policy, which really does mean that the lowest of the low pass and, maybe even worse, they actually stay in the same classes with the students who are self-motivated and actually learn. This comes partially out of the idea that keeping the group together is more important than focusing on the needs of individual children within a group. In turn, those individuals are "expected" to help the weaker ones through. That sounds good in theory, but in practice it just means that everyone copies the strong students' homework or exams and end up studying nothing at all.

The last thing is that sustained study just isn't a concept here, really. Going in, butts in seats, yeah. But taking what you learned home, reviewing it and applying it to other parts of your life? Not so much. I am not only talking about children, either. This happens all the way through what they call "graduate school" here, with some exceptions.

My experience with Cambodia is that poverty breeds urgency and you can see a lot of really driven people there who work hard because they need to compete to survive. Not saying that is a good thing in and of itself, but immediate necessity does seem to play a role.

Edited September 3, 2014 by dao16

[catweazle]

Pol Pot eradicated iq as a whole in Cambodia - the place never recovered! Can't compare it to Thailand, even though Thai teachers are teaching their pupils that LOS never was occupied, ever!

Edited September 3, 2014 by catweazle

[TheSiemReaper]

Pol Pot eradicated iq as a whole in Cambodia - the place never recovered! Can't compare it to Thailand, even though Thai teachers are teaching their pupils that LOS never was occupied, ever!

That may be the stupidest thing I've read all week. Do you think the Khmer Rouge asked people to fill in IQ tests and then shot them for passing? It's a myth that the intelligensia came off any worse than the rest of Cambodia. Mainly because a.) there wasn't much of an intelligensia (see my post above as to why - no schools) and b.) because many of the smartest people fled the country prior to the KR take over. Milton Osborne (perhaps the most respected figure in South East Asian analysis) concludes that there was no difference in the overall damage to the intelligensia (as a percentage of people affected) than the population at large.

[catweazle]

Pol Pot eradicated iq as a whole in Cambodia - the place never recovered! Can't compare it to Thailand, even though Thai teachers are teaching their pupils that LOS never was occupied, ever!

That may be the stupidest thing I've read all week. Do you think the Khmer Rouge asked people to fill in IQ tests and then shot them for passing? It's a myth that the intelligensia came off any worse than the rest of Cambodia. Mainly because a.) there wasn't much of an intelligensia (see my post above as to why - no schools) and b.) because many of the smartest people fled the country prior to the KR take over. Milton Osborne (perhaps the most respected figure in South East Asian analysis) concludes that there was no difference in the overall damage to the intelligensia (as a percentage of people affected) than the population at large.

Wrong, Siamrepeater! If you read first hand accounts of survivors and if you would make an effort to visit Cambodia's capitol, you'd be surprised! It's your choice if you believe so-called specialists and analysts... I trust in what I see with my own eyes. You could begin with the book "First they killed my father" by Loung Ung for starters... Would say more, but have mercy on you since you seem to at least have a good sense of dark humor (the iq test knock is hilarious) what is something I like and value.

Edited September 3, 2014 by catweazle

[BruceMangosteen]

For what it's worth.....I've been to Cambodia several times and the typical Cambodian speaks much better English than your typical Thai. I mean from school age(limited exposure) to adults working at reception or in bars and casinos and taxi drivers. The English is also proper, not the "Thai Glish" with missing verbs etc.. They seem very motivated to learn English. I don't know if transcends to the schools.

[TheSiemReaper]

Pol Pot eradicated iq as a whole in Cambodia - the place never recovered! Can't compare it to Thailand, even though Thai teachers are teaching their pupils that LOS never was occupied, ever!

That may be the stupidest thing I've read all week. Do you think the Khmer Rouge asked people to fill in IQ tests and then shot them for passing? It's a myth that the intelligensia came off any worse than the rest of Cambodia. Mainly because a.) there wasn't much of an intelligensia (see my post above as to why - no schools) and b.) because many of the smartest people fled the country prior to the KR take over. Milton Osborne (perhaps the most respected figure in South East Asian analysis) concludes that there was no difference in the overall damage to the intelligensia (as a percentage of people affected) than the population at large.

Wrong, Siamrepeater! If you read first hand accounts of survivors and if you would make the effort to visit Cambodia's capitol, you'd be surprised! It's your choice if you believe so-called specialists and analysts... I trust in what I see with my own eyes. You could begin with the book "First they killed my father" by Loung Ung for starters... Would say more, but have mercy on you since you seem to at least have a good sense of dark humor (the iq test knock was hilarious) what is something I like and value.

I live in Cambodia; I've lived in Phnom Penh. You'd be amazed at how little your observations reflect my day-to-day reality. I've read "First they Killed My Father" and nearly every other text on Cambodia there is commonly available too. Education is a wonderful thing, you might try getting a well-rounded one rather than basing your understanding on a single personal account of an event.

Edited September 3, 2014 by TheSiemReaper

[Hardy99]

If you trust in neutral taken statistics (PISA) you can see that the ranking of Thailand is far behind Cambodia!
Nearly all ASEAN countries, except Myanmar or Laos are better in that ranking. The Thai Curriculum and Thai Government schools you can forget - not even Need think about!

The private Schools run under EP (english program) also follow Thai Curriculum are much more expensive and a little bit better, so the only choice to give the Kids a Chance is private School follow foreign Curriculum.. (hell expensive).

Say it in one Phrase : Compare cambodia and Thailand education - Cambodia wins! You can check that out, just let Google find it for you. It was also posted in The Nation, I think Thailand was about some place 7x and Cambodia 5x. An other Point is the location. In Thailand there are many locations you can find private Schools - north to south. How that looks in cambodia - no idea.

Compare the private Schools I think Thailand wins, must have much bigger selection.

[Hans Donnerborg]

I hope you dont expect parents of thais or cambodians to help their children in schools.

Parents have often less than 4 years of basic edu - that is if any at all.

[Hans Donnerborg]

My vife claim to have gymnasium.
Its not the same kind of gym as i.

She is brillant in "Simon says" copy and repeat

(sorry but thats how i se it)

greater understanding of what and why

or

how to extract info

that is ehm somewhere in Siberia

She was astounded of my knowledge of ol Thailand
just because i read a book.

I dont know what they teach them in Thailand

"copy cat " is ok in basic school to get a foundation i reading and writing-

but in gymnasium it should be more intellectual.

and not just advanced waterbuffalo riding - evil grins

[Yooyung]

My vife claim to have gymnasium.

Its not the same kind of gym as i.

She is brillant in "Simon says" copy and repeat

(sorry but thats how i se it)

greater understanding of what and why

or

how to extract info

that is ehm somewhere in Siberia

She was astounded of my knowledge of ol Thailand

just because i read a book.

I dont know what they teach them in Thailand

"copy cat " is ok in basic school to get a foundation i reading and writing-

but in gymnasium it should be more intellectual.

and not just advanced waterbuffalo riding - evil grins

Thats the most amusing post I have read on this forum for a long time. I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about....but it sure was fun to read!

[stevo2]

The local village school is a perfect example of why Thailand is miles behind.

Last week half of the kids were home. I asked them why. The reason given "Kru by tee-o". (the teachers have gone on holiday) Apparently perfectly acceptable. Of course teachers don't get enough holiday.!!!

Today and yesterday all of the kids are home. "Kru brachoom" (teacher meeting).

Roll on ASEAN.

[aarontendo]

Heh to be fair it may be a teachers planning day, which is done back in America once or twice a quarter if I recall correctly. Not the end of the world really.

[stevo2]

Not the end of the world?????

Taking into account then sports "day", the teachers holiday and now the "planning day" (which they could have done on their holiday) the students at the school have studied 1 day in the last 10 school days.

Looks like the Thai parents agree with you though.

[aarontendo]

I wasn't commenting on any other days. Merely stating that there are sometimes teachers planning days built into the school schedule in other spots as well. Sports days occur in pretty much in every school I've heard of, so unless it's multiple days again it's nothing big. These are pretty normal things back in your home country too I suspect.

I can't really comment on the teachers holidays however.

[stevo2]

I seem to remember, when I was at school, that teacher planning days were accounted for at the end of term.

There is supposed to be a rule in Thailand that schools are open for business 200 days a year. If they fall short then they have to teach on Saturdays and Sundays or add extra days to the end of term.

Does this happen??????

What really agitates me is the fact that the parents don't complain.

[meand]

Not the end of the world?????

Taking into account then sports "day", the teachers holiday and now the "planning day" (which they could have done on their holiday) the students at the school have studied 1 day in the last 10 school days.

Looks like the Thai parents agree with you though.

Not the end of the world at all. Those kids aren't learning anything anyway.

People tend to think missing days of school will result in some sort of disastrous consequences. I can see how if a single child misses a day or two, falling behind could be a very damaging issue. However, the entire school being of an extra day will mean zero in the grand scheme of things. People need to relax, days off are a good thing. They are pretty much the entire point of life if you ask me.

[GanDoonToonPet]

It's difficult to tell as Cambodia doesn't participate in any of the usual ranking studies such as PISA, Pearson, U21 etc.

Thailand's rankings are:

PISA 2012: 427 points (lowest 368 / mean 494 / highest 613)

Pearson 2014: Ranked 35/40 (z score = -1.16, improved 0.3 since the last report)

U21: Ranked 42/50 (adjusted up due to economic development level)