Yingluck's fate on rice scheme to be known tomorrow

[whybother]

If they decide to prosecute: The junta have it in for Yingluck.

If they decide not to prosecute: They junta have done a deal with Yingluck.

[Thai at Heart]

How much of the rice went bad from last November till now when the government were not able to function due to the PRDC/Army teamwork?

Why would the protests stop the warehouse managers from doing their jobs?

Other than closing the door, and doing the odd fumigation and a bit of sweeping there was nothing a warehouseman could have done to stop this stuff colouring down due to natural ageing. Nothing.

[whybother]

How much of the rice went bad from last November till now when the government were not able to function due to the PRDC/Army teamwork?

Why would the protests stop the warehouse managers from doing their jobs?

Other than closing the door, and doing the odd fumigation and a bit of sweeping there was nothing a warehouseman could have done to stop this stuff colouring down due to natural ageing. Nothing.

I don't think the issue is with rice that has "coloured down".

Rotting. Infestations. Disappearing.

But all because of the protests ... right??

[rametindallas]

If a PM is responsible for all illegal acts done by others in Govt.all PM's would goto jail. Its a crazy system.

It's not her position as PM that makes her responsible. It is the fact that she was chairperson of the Rice Support Scheme and, therefore, directly responsible for its implementation. In the face of numerous warnings by Thailand Development Research Institute and many other NGOs and quasi governmental organizations, she 'went through the motions' of pretending to investigate the corruption inherent in the program and never found even a single flaw in the program. She was part of the corruption by not stopping it when she, as both chairperson of the program and PM, was the ONLY person in Thailand who COULD stop it.

[surangw]

I think that a deal has been closed, and this is why she came back from her overseas trip. She won't be prosecuted, and someone else will have to face the court.

Quite possible.

Probably one of the many deals that are likely to have been brokered between the old and the new recently.

she probably already has her exit plan in reserve, and money off shore in place.

[See the bears]

How much of the rice went bad from last November till now when the government were not able to function due to the PRDC/Army teamwork?

Why would the protests stop the warehouse managers from doing their jobs?

Other than closing the door, and doing the odd fumigation and a bit of sweeping there was nothing a warehouseman could have done to stop this stuff colouring down due to natural ageing. Nothing.

I don't think the issue is with rice that has "coloured down".

Rotting. Infestations. Disappearing.

But all because of the protests ... right??

The armed protesters rendered the government dysfunctional. They surrounded,occupied, vandalised and looted many government departments & hunted down government ministers. The government can't be held responsible for any deterioration in the rice stocks from that date onwards.

[whybother]

The armed protesters rendered the government dysfunctional. They surrounded,occupied, vandalised and looted many government departments & hunted down government ministers. The government can't be held responsible for any deterioration in the rice stocks from that date onwards.

I'm still wondering how the protests stopped the warehouse managers from doing their jobs.

[oldsailor35]

I hope that they will throw the sack (book) of rice at her and all her cronies and lackeys

that has shamelessly bled the country dry for so long and nothing to show for, as most

of the farmers on that handout are still where they were before they were handed free money....

It would be nice to see justice done. But, as usual, one way or another, a Shin won't really be punished. Deals within deals, courtesy among the elite and all that.

She'll get to stay, a billionaire, live the life of luxury, and at "worst" be banned from politics for 5 years. Sure that will bother her.

What about the good commerce ministers, Arisman's missus company. Chalerm's son's mate who was running things in the logistics, Nat's transport, the false sales deal lied to the public? All gone quiet.

I heard a rumour that they have all moved into a temple down Surat Thani way.

[Trouble]

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If she is prosecuted, she becomes a martyr with very high political credit (not the same as credibility at all)., She'd be the Thai An Yung Sukki. I really don't see much commentary on the fallout, just lots of opinions concerning culpability.

The political reality is something different. If prosecuted or not, the people that voted for her are not going to suddenly swing to the Democrat side. The Powers That Be, not the same as the politicians here at all, definitely need her out of the picture without a backlash. There really are a lot of smart Thais, just not often in the public sector. I don't think either side behind the scenes is really comfortable with the situation. No clear cut winners afterwards if any missteps take place, They can ban her from politics, but all she has to do is endorse someone.

then it's right back to square one, again, with another inevitable coup.

Amazing Thailand.

I am interested in seeing how this plays out.

Well, if you seize all the family properties and money in Thailand, than she will be much less martyr than if she stays in jail.

Reasons are enough, most if not all family members are in some obvious corrupt business.....Even Thaksins ex-wife complained about his other sister can't get enough.....

Allegedly there is an estimated 500 billion loss from the scheme according to the OP, yet to be specified in any detail. It is just a number being thrown around by the press. To date there have been no charges or even an allegation that she personally profited from anything to do with the scheme and there is no evidence so far presented that she was involved personally in a criminal scheme to defraud. Seems like the charges that they might bring are for malfeasance in office. Whatever the politics surrounding whether she will be charged or not, and you can bet there are plenty, let's all look at what evidence might be presented before demanding specific punishment.

The comments made with regard to the original post only go to show how people have made up their minds before reviewing what evidence might be at hand in order to properly convict. As one poster pointed out if a president or prime minister was responsible for everyone beneath them who committed fraud or malfeasance in office, they would all be in jail. I think it is particularly important to remember that any government is a big machine and impossible to control. I think we should wait and see if the prosecutor can connect the dots before she is prosecuted. Let's face the fact that malfeasance is a very difficult thing to prove in the best of circumstances. Further, if there is any limits placed on her ability to call witnesses and defend herself then we will see another example of the Thai justice system being used as a political tool.

[oldsailor35]

At least she has the balls to not run away and hide like her evil twin...

Or slide off into a temple for a couple of years.

[whybother]

At least she has the balls to not run away and hide like her evil twin...

Or slide off into a temple for a couple of years.

Who was it that slid off to a temple for a couple of years?

[changsinghleo]

Not going to bother with a comment as I now know from experience that it won't be accepted. But their reason of "your e-mail is unattended" doesn't make sense to my cranial mass.?

[Thai at Heart]

How much of the rice went bad from last November till now when the government were not able to function due to the PRDC/Army teamwork?

Why would the protests stop the warehouse managers from doing their jobs?

Other than closing the door, and doing the odd fumigation and a bit of sweeping there was nothing a warehouseman could have done to stop this stuff colouring down due to natural ageing. Nothing.

I don't think the issue is with rice that has "coloured down".

Rotting. Infestations. Disappearing.

But all because of the protests ... right??

Its of substandard to what went into the warehouse.

[MilesofSmiles]

It would be nice to think that someone would be held accountable for the scam, err, mess.

... or that steps would be taken to stop the same thing happening again in future.

But it won't.

[AleG]

Other than closing the door, and doing the odd fumigation and a bit of sweeping there was nothing a warehouseman could have done to stop this stuff colouring down due to natural ageing. Nothing.

I don't think the issue is with rice that has "coloured down".

Rotting. Infestations. Disappearing.

But all because of the protests ... right??

Its of substandard to what went into the warehouse.

Or what it was claimed to go into the warehouse for that matter.

[rubl]

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If she is prosecuted, she becomes a martyr with very high political credit (not the same as credibility at all)., She'd be the Thai An Yung Sukki. I really don't see much commentary on the fallout, just lots of opinions concerning culpability.

The political reality is something different. If prosecuted or not, the people that voted for her are not going to suddenly swing to the Democrat side. The Powers That Be, not the same as the politicians here at all, definitely need her out of the picture without a backlash. There really are a lot of smart Thais, just not often in the public sector. I don't think either side behind the scenes is really comfortable with the situation. No clear cut winners afterwards if any missteps take place, They can ban her from politics, but all she has to do is endorse someone.

then it's right back to square one, again, with another inevitable coup.

Amazing Thailand.

I am interested in seeing how this plays out.

Well, if you seize all the family properties and money in Thailand, than she will be much less martyr than if she stays in jail.

Reasons are enough, most if not all family members are in some obvious corrupt business.....Even Thaksins ex-wife complained about his other sister can't get enough.....

Allegedly there is an estimated 500 billion loss from the scheme according to the OP, yet to be specified in any detail. It is just a number being thrown around by the press. To date there have been no charges or even an allegation that she personally profited from anything to do with the scheme and there is no evidence so far presented that she was involved personally in a criminal scheme to defraud. Seems like the charges that they might bring are for malfeasance in office. Whatever the politics surrounding whether she will be charged or not, and you can bet there are plenty, let's all look at what evidence might be presented before demanding specific punishment.

The comments made with regard to the original post only go to show how people have made up their minds before reviewing what evidence might be at hand in order to properly convict. As one poster pointed out if a president or prime minister was responsible for everyone beneath them who committed fraud or malfeasance in office, they would all be in jail. I think it is particularly important to remember that any government is a big machine and impossible to control. I think we should wait and see if the prosecutor can connect the dots before she is prosecuted. Let's face the fact that malfeasance is a very difficult thing to prove in the best of circumstances. Further, if there is any limits placed on her ability to call witnesses and defend herself then we will see another example of the Thai justice system being used as a political tool.

Well, allegedly the minimal loss of 500 billion Baht was confirmed by one of the Ministries and it wasn't the one for Tourism.

Ms. Yingluck is accused of negligence and the very fact that the details on this non-revolving fund which was increased from 500 to 700 to 880 to +++ billion Baht seems to indicate at least a touch of negligence. Personally I doubt she will have profited financially herself, but the scheme concocted as 'self-financing' and therefor put outside the National Butget has lost at least 500 billion Baht and with the remaining rice mounting not in the 'right' shape losses seem to increase. If not negligent I'm afraid Ms. Yingluck might be criminally involved in defrauding the State of the loss incurred. Maybe to help finance supporters?

As for the witnesses, don't worry if the OAG decides to prosecute Ms. Yingluck she'll be able to present her wishlist and about all would be accepted including her golf caddy assuming he testifies here in person

[northernjohn]

Let's do a checklist.

1. Controversial rice schem - every past govenment rice scheme are controversial.

2. Enormous loss - have not seen the final audited figures less rice sold and will be sold, warehouse compensation etc

3. Alleged corruption - speculation but not proven. Only local and low level corruption.

The NACC is too eager to please their master and may have rush through concluding their final report. Case rather weak. Likely OAG will asked NACC to investigate for more evidence. No drama.

How do you figure it was controversial.

It was and out and out vote getting scheme.

Are you naive enough to think they would have brought it up if it wouldn't help them get elected?

Do you really think they would have got elected if they had been honest and said all we want to do is white wash Thaksin so he can come back and be a dictator?

Enormous loss already known fact. The only thing we don't know is how enormous it is. Stop for a minute and think millions of ton's of rice being sold at below purchase price plus the cost of transportation and milling. Let us not forget the high percentage that is unsalable due to rot.

Who is the NACC master?

Answer the citizens of Thailand.

How many party policies before an election are not about getting elected? Stupid comment.

They were very open & honest about their policy to bring Thaksin home.

Enormous loss; Have you looked at the numbers for US Farm policy & EU CAP? How about Japanese rice policy?

If you had a leg to stand on you would not have tried to deflect it onto some other country. I have no problem staying in Thailand. Enjoy your world travels they are useless here.

As far as how many promises before an election to get elected stupid statement.

How about how many phony useless ones. For the PTP it took a lot.

Ya the only one they tried to keep over public disapproval was bring back Thaksin. But you neglect to mention they did not say they were going to white wash him of all his crimes to do it.

[KevinB]

I have no intention of responding to some of the comments here - about as dumb as trying to explain to a person who watches Fox News that always running down the President of the USA actually does damages the International standing of their beloved country. I've actually heard a commentator breaking into on monkey chant on air on Fox - when I was dumb enough to click on a News channel other than SKY or BBC.

I note the following "facts" (as reported by our illustriously fair and balance press) during the Warehouse checking programme carried out by the army during the early days of the coup. It was ofcourse very interesting to see how much "negative press" the old regime got and how swiftly the stuck funds owed to the farmers were so quickly release after magically been blocked by some force other that the previous Yingluk government.

Anyway - in Southern Thailand (clearly not the heartland of any Shin support) two or three of the largest warehouses storing rice (all miles apart and owned by different powerful local traders) had all had mysterious fires between 6 and 4 weeks before the Coup. All the storage records got destroyed - it one case even some of the rice got burnt in the fire (some looked like carefully targeted blazes). Amazing premonition - don't you think. I wonder who shared with them the pre-ordained date set by a horoscope specialist.

Some of the biggest "missing stocks" are in commercial warehouses owned by some very hi-so families in Bangkok - folk who I can bet are not contributors to anything to do with the house of Shin.

SO wake-up folks just like so many things in Thailand everyone who could rip the ring out of the Rice Pledging scheme WAS DOING JUST THAT (from Government Officials at provincial and district level to every rice trader in the country - right down to the folk operating the transport , the weigh-bridges and the gates on the warehouse compound. If the Shin dynasty controlled every single thing in this country (which they clearly don't) they wouldn't need to even be in politics.

Do you know what a couple of hundred rai in down-town Bangkok is worth???? - have a little look around - ask a few people who owns those lovely un-developed plots along Sukumavit - some very nicely placed people actually - including (you will be surprised to hear) families of long deceased Generals who retired or died years ago - leaving their families the drag of having to drop one or two plots on the market when they get a bit short of readies. These families don't even both to get involved in politics directly - the just fund the "process".

I'm sure some of you will relish the trial of the former PM - a bit like the mob watching the guillotine raise and fall in Revolutionary France - screaming for more blood - if they could have only seen the future - a dumpy little General became an Emperor and proceeded to try and conquer all of Europe.

[HerbalEd]

I think that a deal has been closed, and this is why she came back from her overseas trip. She won't be prosecuted, and someone else will have to face the court.

She did that overseas trip so that if she actually decides to run she can do it again without raising suspicion.

There's no fooling you.

[northernjohn]

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If they decide to prosecute: The junta have it in for Yingluck.

If they decide not to prosecute: They junta have done a deal with Yingluck.

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I tend to agree there is probably some sort of deal in place. This is not a good situation for the Government to be in. If she get's what she deserves the sympathy vote will rise. If she doesn't get what she deserves the government bashers will be in there screaming at the top of their voice about it. Not a good situation for the government to be in. For sure Yingluck knows she is guilty and that they have the goods on her to convict her. So it would follow that she would make some sort of a deal. After all can't have a Shinawatra in jail now can we. You know face and all that.

Wouldn't it be nice if she agreed to tell all the backroom deals her brother pulled off?

The armed protesters rendered the government dysfunctional. They surrounded,occupied, vandalised and looted many government departments & hunted down government ministers. The government can't be held responsible for any deterioration in the rice stocks from that date onwards.

I'm still wondering how the protests stopped the warehouse managers from doing their jobs.

Consider the source of the statement. The red shirts did not come about because of their intelligence.

Edited September 3, 2014 by northernjohn

[HerbalEd]

If world leaders who "incurred enormous loss to the country from alleged corruption" go to jail, there will be lots of them in prison.

Whether she deserves punishment or not probably has nothing to do with it. The massive loss of face to the Nation of Thailand of having a PM go to prison ... for the whole world to see ... will prevent her being charged and prosecuted ... much less going to prison.

[bristolgeoff]

i also think a deal is done with maybe some tea money passing hands somewhere. to sweeten the deal too.

[greenchair]

Her assets revealed that she did not increase her wealth at all during her term. She may have made a bad policy decision (which many voted in with her )but she was not involved in corruption in this instance. It's true, all politicians would be in jail if bad policy was a crime. And what do the farmers have now? NOTHING!!! the reason we don't hear from them, though they are suffering, is the famous attitude adjustment. They are no longer allowed to protest. Leave her alone, she has done nothing wrong.

[Boxclever]

She will be charged and convicted of some trumped up charge, this has been the Junta's agenda all along, that way she will get banned from politics for 5 years. Good news is her younger sister is waiting in the wings, hope for freedom and democracy yet

[tifino]

well - tomorrow is today...

...what happ'n?

[sscsamui]

I know a lot of people think this woman has the mentality of a watermelon, but you will never convince me that she did not know that "some" of the things she did while PM were dodgy, to say the least. In a lot of other countries she would have the book thrown at her and pay for her sins.

But as another poster said, she is of the Shinawatra regime, and elitist, a hi-so, an untouchable.

Hope I live long enough to see Karma catch up with this disgusting excuse for a family.

I agree....

[Nickymaster]

How much of the rice went bad from last November till now when the government were not able to function due to the PRDC/Army teamwork?

yes of course, all problems started in November 2013....

How much rice was already rotten in November 2013? You can't answer that because nobody knew that at that stage. Thanks to Yingluck's transparent way of working.

How much where the losses in November 2013? You can't answer that because nobody knew that at that stage. Thanks to Yingluck's transparent way of working.

Only thing we know is that in November 2013, payments from May 2013 to farmers where outstanding.

What we know for sure is that since the day Yinglck was put on non-active, everything started to become clear.

[See the bears]

How much of the rice went bad from last November till now when the government were not able to function due to the PRDC/Army teamwork?

yes of course, all problems started in November 2013....

How much rice was already rotten in November 2013? You can't answer that because nobody knew that at that stage. Thanks to Yingluck's transparent way of working.

How much where the losses in November 2013? You can't answer that because nobody knew that at that stage. Thanks to Yingluck's transparent way of working.

Only thing we know is that in November 2013, payments from May 2013 to farmers where outstanding.

What we know for sure is that since the day Yinglck was put on non-active, everything started to become clear.

Right, you mean from the really transparent junta, who don't have to declare or be held liable for anything they do. LOL!

[whybother]

How much of the rice went bad from last November till now when the government were not able to function due to the PRDC/Army teamwork?

yes of course, all problems started in November 2013....

How much rice was already rotten in November 2013? You can't answer that because nobody knew that at that stage. Thanks to Yingluck's transparent way of working.

How much where the losses in November 2013? You can't answer that because nobody knew that at that stage. Thanks to Yingluck's transparent way of working.

Only thing we know is that in November 2013, payments from May 2013 to farmers where outstanding.

What we know for sure is that since the day Yinglck was put on non-active, everything started to become clear.

Right, you mean from the really transparent junta, who don't have to declare or be held liable for anything they do. LOL!

A Yingluck supporter complaining about junta transparency???? 55555555555555555555555

[ginjag]

She will be charged and convicted of some trumped up charge, this has been the Junta's agenda all along, that way she will get banned from politics for 5 years. Good news is her younger sister is waiting in the wings, hope for freedom and democracy yet

The biggest YAWN post this year. Of course it will be trumped up, everything the Shins did wrong are trumped up, (politically motivated) you forgot to say.

Why is she in the news ??? why did PTP not run a 4 year term with good governance, what is their excuse ??? when they had the power to do it.

" her young sister is in the wings" if she had wings she couldn't take off-- Your last 6 words are a joke.