Your First Time In Thailand

[eddy-ham]

Having read most of the these posts I have to put my two pence worth in.

You are entitled to your opinion so please have mine..Your option of removing yourself from the dregs of society are your options, (to imply that these people, which from the tone of the letters written I think you do) is rather aloft and shows a lack of respect for other peoples position in life.Throughout life you will find good people and bad, it is not a question of class status and by removing yourself from the various areas of society your life will be poorer.............you are where you are by choice, some people do not have that choice.........

i agree in theory with what you are saying, but it doesnt mean that i will enjoy socialising with uneducated people who live below the poverty line.

yes, i'm sure a lot are good people who with a better start in life could have acheived much more but the fact is there is a GULF between their lives and mine.

it is a natural human trait to want to mix with like-minded individuals, it goes on all around the planet.

perhaps you think i go around sneering and spitting at people who arent in the same position as me??? that is totally incorrect. i treat everybody as i find them. i am respectful, courteous and well-mannered at all times, unless i copme across someone rude.

i think a lot of westerners come to thailand and they are saddened by how poor a lot of the people are while others swan around in their BMWs. we are brought up to believe in people having a fair chance in life through education and opportunity - but that doesnt happen here and there is nothing i can do about it.

every day i interact with working class thais, but i dont find a great deal in common with them if the conversation goes beyond who is the best football player etc etc

it is useless trying to apply western standards out here, thailand is what it is and that's how i deal with the place.

If I may presume a few things.

A) You live in Thailand and you are not Thai.

You come from England.

As you are a visitior in this beautiful country, you are allowed to be here by their grace and yet you speak of them in a condecending manner as in class and education. Most of you comments seemed to be based through education and material gains all of which are Western ideals and values and then you say`

``it is useless trying to apply western standards out here, thailand is what it is and that's how i deal with the place``

this ''Place `' is where you live , where you have decided to live, you are a guest............

[leftcross]

If I may presume a few things.

A) You live in Thailand and you are not Thai.

You come from England.

As you are a visitior in this beautiful country, you are allowed to be here by their grace and yet you speak of them in a condecending manner as in class and education. Most of you comments seemed to be based through education and material gains all of which are Western ideals and values and then you say`

``it is useless trying to apply western standards out here, thailand is what it is and that's how i deal with the place``

this ''Place `' is where you live , where you have decided to live, you are a guest............

you presume correctly on both of your original points.

however, that is all you know about me. i am not here 'by their grace', i was offered a job here by the thai branch of my english company.

i am not a 'visitor in the beautiful country', i am a tax-paying worker.

not everyone on these boards is a fat western pensioner with a farm girl in tow.

[Douggie Style]

to leftcross,

Some intelligent responses already from Totster, tourleadersi, bkkmadness & others.

So the people you refer to, trugding through life, tired, dispirited, mostly through circumstances they can't control, don't feel?

They know when they are being looked down upon, burning daily humilaitions & shame.

So tell me, under your theory, aren't you just trash to someone higher up the ladder?

[tourleadersi]

not everyone on these boards is a fat western pensioner with a farm girl in tow.

Hi there Leftcross.

I know from a post earlier that you are just having fun here winding people up but have you ever stopped to consider that maybe you are taking things a little too far? I'm not here trying to control what you say but you did point that you do not sneer at the less fortunate than you. The comment above certainly seems to fly in the face of that.

I and my wife do not fit the profile but my sympathy does go out to anyone who does. Trust me, some of the people that you described deserve your disdain, but I am sure there are others who are both equally trying to make a go of it in life and perhaps aspire to getting to your level in soceity. Knocking them down like that is pretty tough wouldn't you say?

[leftcross]

its a post on an internet forum for god's sake.

unfortunately the nature of the beast means that posters can hide their agendas and say things that may make them sound like Mr Altruistic, while in fact they are just trying to cover their <deleted>.

your earlier post about bar girls, for instance, shows which circles you like to move in.

i am not going to pass judgement on that as it is your life and you can do as you please.

but please save the sanctamonious replies. i havent got anything to hide but i know some of you guys would shirk from competing on a level playing field if your reality was revealed.

[Charma]

its a post on an internet forum for god's sake.

unfortunately the nature of the beast means that posters can hide their agendas and say things that may make them sound like Mr Altruistic, while in fact they are just trying to cover their <deleted>.

your earlier post about bar girls, for instance, shows which circles you like to move in.

i am not going to pass judgement on that as it is your life and you can do as you please.

but please save the sanctamonious replies. i havent got anything to hide but i know some of you guys would shirk from competing on a level playing field if your reality was revealed.

I think everyone now has a good feel for your agenda leftcross. Your conceit leeks out of you like a sieve. After putting forward your opinions on "peasants" and "pensioners" you step back and say what a nice, courteous amd well mannered person you are. I think though that your posted comments speak for themselves:

"the gold buying, bug eating, house building for mum caper only really applies if you are involved in relationships with the peasants of thailand".

"you people should really try mixing in a better class of thai instead of giving all your money to the dregs".

"I didn't travel 6000 miles to live my life surrounded by the brown-skinned equivalent of a council estate chav".

"All of the things the original poster mentioned are connected with the peasants of the country. As I said, back home I did not mix with the dregs off the council estates as my world was completely different to theirs".

"I worked, they didn't. I was educated, they weren't. I supported myself without looking for handouts, they didn't".

"my opinion - people draped in gold are chavs, people who eat insects are peasants".

"am i a snob? if thinking you are higher up the ladder in society than the dirt poor in a third world country makes a person a snob then yes i am. i would say it is accepting the social order"

"not everyone on these boards is a fat western pensioner with a farm girl in tow"

Yes this is a forum - and we can only come to a view of you based on what you post!

[eddy-ham]

however, that is all you know about me. i am not here 'by their grace', i was offered a job here by the thai branch of my english company.

i am not a 'visitor in the beautiful country', i am a tax-paying worker.

not everyone on these boards is a fat western pensioner with a farm girl in tow.

1) Paying tax does not mean that you have a right to be rude to people.you accepted the job, try accepting the people, as a educated person this should be easy.

2) Definition of education;

Increasingly,

- an 'educated person' will be somebody

- who has learned how to learn and (GO)

- who throughout his or her lifetime continues learning,

- and - especially learning in and through formal education."

3) I don't think insulting people require a response. but hey,lets class everybody the same on this forum .....re fat pensioners

4)On the way down you meet people you trod on on the way up!

[tourleadersi]

its a post on an internet forum for god's sake.

unfortunately the nature of the beast means that posters can hide their agendas and say things that may make them sound like Mr Altruistic, while in fact they are just trying to cover their <deleted>.

your earlier post about bar girls, for instance, shows which circles you like to move in.

i am not going to pass judgement on that as it is your life and you can do as you please.

but please save the sanctamonious replies. i havent got anything to hide but i know some of you guys would shirk from competing on a level playing field if your reality was revealed.

I guess I should have known better than to try and appeal to a side of your nature that you either don't have or choose not to show.

As for calling me sanctamonious, well sanctimonious actually, I am a nice guy who doesn't pass judgement on others wherever possible. I don't fake the way I am, I was genuinely asking you to spare a thought for people less fortunate than yourself in the vain hope that we could get back on topic.

The fact that you rehashed my earlier post about bargirls is being judgemental as you read it and then assumed that those are the circles that I like to move in. There is no shame in admitting that I know some girls who work in that industry, and I actually count them as friends. I have told you that twice already and maybe it is taking a while to sink in, but it is the truth. Anyone out there who judges a man for such things without trying to understand all of the circumstances is being judgemental. I have nothing to hide, but I don't bark about the fact that this is the case or believe that I am so spotless that I could beat others on a level playingfield. The fact that you think like that screams out that you have a superiority complex. I am who I am leftcross, I am not ashamed of anything. Perhaps hanging out with a bargirl who is a friend guarantees that I won't meet characters like you? If that is the case, then long shall our friendship remain.

[eddy-ham]

Re definition of snob...

It's a real word, not an acronym, and it seems to have reversed its meaning over the last two centuries. The OED gives this sequence of meanings: a cobbler (slang, 1781), a plebeian (1831), a vulgar, ill-bred person (1838), one who imitates his social superiors (1848), one who despises his social inferiors (1911). The original sense may be connected with "snip" or "snub".

Our old latin teacher said that snob is short for Sinus Nobilis ie. born without nobility.

Such knowlege is not for the likes of you.

sorry could not find anything that said educated!!

Backhanded compliment?

[leftcross]

1) Paying tax does not mean that you have a right to be rude to people.you accepted the job, try accepting the people, as a educated person this should be easy.

have i ever been rude to a thai person? hmmmm

2) Definition of education;

Increasingly,

- an 'educated person' will be somebody

- who has learned how to learn and (GO)

- who throughout his or her lifetime continues learning,

- and - especially learning in and through formal education."

every single person on the planet learns as they live. i am, as you well know, talking about people who were forced to leave school aged 11 and 12 without much of a formal education (yes i know it's not their fault!!). think about it.

3) I don't think insulting people require a response. but hey,lets class everybody the same on this forum .....re fat pensioners

that is an extreme example but it is the feeling i am getting from many of the posts on here. there's plenty of posters who try and defend the indefensible lest the finger of suspicion is pointed in their direction.

4)On the way down you meet people you trod on on the way up!

i havent trod on anyone.

[eddy-ham]

I havent trod on anyone.......

Please all reply.............

[eddy-ham]

I havent trod on anyone.......

Or

Sorry captain ,What Iceberg?

[tourleadersi]

I havent trod on anyone.......

In a physical sense that is probably true, or not that you have been aware of. But to be honest leftcross the opinions that you have offered up on this thread would indicate that you have verbally 'trodden' on people, in the kind of way a drunk waterbuffalo might move through a field of daisies. I'm sorry to say it but I don't think you've won too many friends on this thread, however I do understand that elsewhere your opinions are eagerly awaited.

[diddlysquat]

Re definition of snob...

Our old latin teacher said that snob is short for Sinus Nobilis ie. born without nobility.

A definition of snob could be someone who quotes Latin.

[jdinasia]

C'mon guys .... Lefty is just too easy of a target already in this thread

[tourleadersi]

C'mon guys .... Lefty is just too easy of a target already in this thread

True, but whenever I've been an easy target I've kept my head down....

[leftcross]

i'm a big boy, i can take it. plus it's interesting reading all your contrasting opinions.

[Martin]

There is a big difference between Thailand and the Western countries.

The Western countries have had compulsory, free, formal schooling for a long time.

In Thailand, it is possible to meet people who have had very little formal schooling, but whose innate ability has given them a high level of informal education through the schools and university of Life.

In a hierarchical society like Thailand has (or, is beginning to emerge from) it is usual for the rich to try to keep the poor 'in their place' by sneering at their lack of schooling

Deep inside themselves, the rich are always fearful of the poor, because they are outnumbered by people who are as bright as they are on average, and have had the advantage of having travelled a tougher route.

If we could measure the "intellectual horsepower" of 100 farm girls and 100 hi so, we would find little difference (if any) on average. But when we looked at individual scores, we would see quite a proprtion of the farm girls scoring higher than the lower hi so. And those lower hi so would have good reason to be fearful.

[PeaceBlondie]

My first long term relationship was in the West. Similar socio-economic backgrounds, great friends and lovers, except I was hard-working and she was lazy and a slob and then overweight...but now she's lost weight and we're still friends.

As I arrived in Thailand, after switching sides, a friend who just wants to teach advised me to not fall in love with a barboy, and I didn't. I fell in love with a good Thai, a manager. Gave him a small share of my income, one gold necklace, no mobile phones, etc. He takes care of me better than Ms. Alamo Heights ever did. His sister gave me a free haircut and shampoo yesterday; they're accepting me as one of the family. And they know I can't eat Thai food, and surely not bugs.

I thought we settled all these "class" issues on the Stickman thread last week. Some people can't let go. I've had friends in low places, and my daughter lives in Alamo Heights, across from one of the owners of the King Ranch. Me, I'm a low-life.

[eddy-ham]

Re definition of snob...

Our old latin teacher said that snob is short for Sinus Nobilis ie. born without nobility.

A definition of snob could be someone who quotes Latin.

reply...

could be.....but isn't

[Heng]

Deep inside themselves, the rich are always fearful of the poor, because they are outnumbered by people who are as bright as they are on average, and have had the advantage of having travelled a tougher route.

An interesting theory, except for the fact that "rich" and "poor" are completely relative terms. We're better off than most of our neighbors but less so than the family across the highway. I'm not sure who fears who, but my senses might not be as acute as yours. Are you talking about subconscious fears?

[Martin]

Sorry, 'Heng'. I should have made it clear that I was talking about class fear, not individual fears.

A rich man may not fear the poor man that he knows, in the slightest.

But, I believe that in hierarchical societies, there is a subconscious fear of the poor class by the rich class.

And there are, no doubt, some who live in gated communities, who would maintain that it is a well-founded fear!