Buying Bikes "In Thailand" as an Investment

[soihok]

Following on the closed topic, but not mentioning any other country.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I know it goes on for cars, especially American cars, but thinking about putting your money into motorbikes as an investment is a bit scary. But many do it and make money from it around the world.

I have no idea how easy it is to export bikes from Thailand to overseas buyers, so can't comment on it.

But the market inside the country itself for ultra rare bikes must exist.

My 6 year old would be over the moon to be climbing about an RC30 parked in her room.

[ktm jeff]

If you plan to do this , inport/export will be very difficult that will cost you money to do , or put buyers off , if outside Thailand . Then you need to pre-empt what will be desirable in 10/20/30 years from now. Kawasaki will release some anniversary models soon , but although nicer than standard , these wont be special enough (IMO). Then the bikes have to be stored correctly - and NOT ridden - and remember that inflation eats into your investment also. If the bike goes up in value by 50% in 10 years , you would have done better with just banking the money - although having a desirable bike to look at in the home is better than numbers in your bank book.

[ll2]

stick to two strokers!

[Overandout]

Even used (ridden) bikes can gain value, they don't have to be only ornaments. I know someone who has made at least 10 times the rate of inflation with his RG500 and that's been ridden. I know because I rode it!

This thread was started due to the closure of Soihoks thread about a Ducati Desmosedici RR for sale. They also sell for considerably more than the new price plus inflation.

[ktm jeff]

Overandout , yes you can ride them but the "virgin" bikes are far more desirable. RG 500 , nice bike , nice friend. I have 3 500cc strokers that are ridden !. When the Desmosedici RR came out i was very temped but the exhausts exit behind the riders seat , so no good for a tail pack / luggage. Im not kidding , this put me off - DOH !.

[Overandout]

Overandout , yes you can ride them but the "virgin" bikes are far more desirable. RG 500 , nice bike , nice friend. I have 3 500cc strokers that are ridden !. When the Desmosedici RR came out i was very temped but the exhausts exit behind the riders seat , so no good for a tail pack / luggage. Im not kidding , this put me off - DOH !.

Of course.

Its true that the "very rare" bikes (like Desmo RR, RC 30, OW01, Norton JPS Rotary etc) will appreciate in value unless they are trashed, whereas mass produced bike will only do so if they gain a cult status. No-one will ever but a GS500 for more than it was new, even counting for inflation!!

Big mistake to to buy the Desmo by the way, but it sounds like you already know that!!

[ktm jeff]

Yea , mistake. But i was really going to use it for tour abroad (Spain/France Italy) and couldnt fit luggage. I think they were about £35,000 (EDIT - £40,000) new but you can buy them for £40-45,000 now with very low miles. Taking inflation into account , thats a bargain.

Edited September 4, 2014 by ktm jeff

[Overandout]

I used to do track days at Jarama and there was usually a guy there with a Desmo RR. He always went home at lunch time despite having paid for the whole day. His theory was that he got faster as the day went on, so more prone to crash in the afternoon!

[ktm jeff]

Ive just found some RR,s for sale. England - 2008 842 miles £42,000 (2,200,000 Baht) Thailand 2009 10,500 miles 2,500,000 Baht. Import duty must have been steep. Working out origional purchase price they havent gone up much over 6 or 7 years , but they have been used. Depends why they were bought - to use , to show or for investment.

[RubberSideDown]

It's not like you buy something like an RR and just hang on to it while it appreciates in value- it has to be serviced regularly, and the cost for special edition Ducatis can be double or more (the Panigale R costs way more to service than the standard or S models due to the higher-end engine components- the RR must be a fortune, and then you'd have to worry about it being so rare the tech might not have experience with it).

Having an old or rare bike comes with it's own set of special issues if you plan to keep it on the road, and being in LOS makes it that much more pricey and difficult- I have a lot of respect for guys that can keep their unusual bikes going here.

[soihok]

I wonder how many RD350/250 LC's are around, as well as the RD500 / RG500 in Thailand?

My old X7 Suzuki would be really cool to use in Thailand, in a tank slapping, piston holing kind of way. Sold it back in 90 (in the UK) for about 5000 baht , ( it needed yet another engine rebuild, which is super quick to do, just that was super bored always having to do it) same goes for my 98 V-Max I sold in Singapore in 2009, vastly underpriced (100,000 baht) but had to leave the country due to end of employment. It would fetch at least 3 times that now.

But thats another story, moving between countries and having to sell up along the way. I did look at importing to Thailand but its really a road I would like to go down.

Personally I would be always on edge riding something mega expensive/unique on the road, it would have to sit on stands undercover somewhere. People do though and I too respect that. Thats not saying I wouldn't enjoy it

I guess the market inside Thailand is too small, so any collection would be on more of a personal taste. I would love to be proved wrong though.

I worked with a Swiss German mechanic about 7 years ago in Singapore, Martin is his name, lives in a large lockup/ warehouse outside Pattaya surrounded by the American muscle cars he had collected over the years. No wife or kids, just "my cars". He was a man at peace with his machines.

[soihok]

Overandout , yes you can ride them but the "virgin" bikes are far more desirable. RG 500 , nice bike , nice friend. I have 3 500cc strokers that are ridden !. When the Desmosedici RR came out i was very temped but the exhausts exit behind the riders seat , so no good for a tail pack / luggage. Im not kidding , this put me off - DOH !.

Fair play Jeff !!

[khunjamesjohnson]

In the car world, the cars with racing history sell for record prices.

$38,000,000 for a Ferrari GTO at auction last month. It had been wrecked too, but restored.

Another sold for around $50,000,000.

Enzo Ferrari has been elevated to Michelangelo status.

The Desmo RR is the Ferrari GTO of motorcycles.

Find one that has been raced and won.

That will be worth investing in.

The Italian exotic car prices have skyrocketed.

Lots of Ferrari models going for over a million dollars now.

I predict the Italian bikes will be a hot item next as the cars are out of reach.

[ktm jeff]

The strokers are track bikes , although 1 is "road legal" officer , but on a Q plate (a number plate that denotes the bike is registered but of unknown age / provanance). HE HE. My touring bike now is a Aprillia RSV Factory 1000. Take it through Europe (France , Italy , Spain ), camping every year for 4 / 5 weeks using soft luggage. Le-Mans 24 HR race (cars or bikes ) on the return trip. Also Ireland or Isle-of-man for 1 week with mates in cottage. Ive always toured on sports bikes !. RR never raced (IMO) in any series , but yes , ex race bikes are tempting. I dont have a Ferrari.

[soihok]

I have never owned a Ferrari either mate.

But I did have a kit car that looked like a Ferrari Dino. Sold at about 100,000 baht 25 years ago.

[ktm jeff]

Did you know this car (the real one) was never badged as a Ferrari. Built by Fiat at their factory. I used to build kit cars and a 2 liter twin cam Lancia was a popular engine. What did you have in it ?.

[soihok]

Hi Jeff.

Unfortunately mine had a VW Variant flat 4.

Kit Car manufacturer was Karma (Melton Mowbray, Leicester, UK). I can tell you some funny stories about the bling v embarrassment.

Edited September 5, 2014 by soihok

[ktm jeff]

Hi , yes of course , i forgot that was another engine option.I used to fit 1500 twin ports into sandrail buggys .No hiding the engine in one of those.The wheels look correct but im not sure of the black rings around the lights.I may be wrong. I live 50KM from Leicester. Small world.Was the photo taken in the USA ?.

[soihok]

Hi Jeff.

The photo is not of my car, only a real one

I don't have any photos at hand, but it was bloody funny (or embarrassing) at times. Mine was Grey colour.

Do you, or have you met, Roger Woolly of RW Kit Cars (way back in the mid 80's)?

I am in touch with Roger on facebook.

[ktm jeff]

Sorry about delay neighbour came around.Dont remember RK , what type of replicas did he do. I built to order. 1 - Calvy , a 1950,s open top open wheel sports car (looked similar to a MG ) that used a 1800 MG/Marina or a 3500 Rover / Buick engine.. 2 - Sandhurst , a Dakar sandrail using any VW flat 4. Ive also fitted a 2000 Ford "Pinto" and a 1800 Vauxhall Cavalier SRI engine to these.Does Roger still go to the kit car show at the NAC ?.

[soihok]

At a guess Roger must be in his late 60's now.

https://www.facebook.com/rogersrig/about

He will have endless contacts relating to the vehicle modding world, drop him a message.

Like your style Jeff

Edited September 6, 2014 by soihok

[ktm jeff]

I dont know/remember Roger sadly. Looks like he is into Yank Tanks (nice Dodge) , and speedway - my late father rode a bit. I do remember Karma did mainly VW based replicas. I think i will be in England for next years Kit car show , so nearer the time i will find out if he is attending. The "old" guys have so many tales to tell , its superb. Im a couple of decades younger , and sometimes think "we" werent half as bad as these guys !!!.

[soihok]

Roger brought moulds of the original from the US and started production in the UK. RW (Roger Woolley) Kit Cars.

http://www.classic-kitcars.com/classic-kitcar-details.php?82

I never got see a V8 Rover engine Karma though. Only the VW Floor Pan based Kit. I used to avoid driving it in the rain as it became a paddling pool inside but it was used throughout winters (no way was I taking the bike out in the snow, tried it once in freezing fog and it almost made me cry).

I ended up selling my complete and roadworthy car to a dealer in Harrogate (I needed the cash to pay for a GSXR that I longed for), for the same price as a basic Kit.

Going back I did have a small collection at that time:-

Karma Kit Car

Honda VF750F

Suzuki GS1000E

Suzuki GT250X7

That Kit Car was the last car I have owned (back in 88) until I bought a Toyota Vigo in 2006 (Thailand).

Edited September 7, 2014 by soihok

[soihok]

I started racing the GS1000 and X7 in club races. Wasn't very good at it, but it was fun.

The GSXR (750J) got stolen and I replaced that with a GSXR1100G, which also got stolen.

Then I saw the light and buggered off from the UK in 92 - best move I made -

[ktm jeff]

Sorry you lost some bikes , crime in England hasnt got any better. Will move full time to CM in 2016 at 50. Cant wait.Just want to be able to ride bikes , and not to be thought of badly because i like bikes. "Greenlaning" now is almost imposible. Noticed the Q reg kit car in England didnt have the black rings around the lamps the other one had - didnt think it looked correct.To go so long without a car now would be almost impossible.

[soihok]

The thefts of my bikes was one of the nails in the coffin with regards to me losing faith in life in England. Main reason for leaving was I just got disillusioned with living there, leaving was the best made I have ever made. I was 27. Plus the weather is crap.

Apart from my bikes being stolen I had an Escort Mark 2 stolen and most of my Snap On tool collection was stolen (I was a mobile mechanic at the time).

Got the Escort back with no wheels, seats, radio, etc.

Got the Slingshot back in several boxes and a severely crashed (non) rolling frame

Never saw the tools or the 1100 again.

I am moving jobs / countries this weekend from Malaysia to Singapore. Have had the use of a company 4x4 Triton in Malaysia over the last 2 years.

No company wheels in Singapore but I am buying a brand new MT-09 ABS when I arrive there . Yes, I miss bikes too.

Funny story about my Karma Kit Car (not at the time). Pulling out of a pub car park in Worksop which was really crowded outside at the front (it was a nice summers evening), my mate sat next to me said" go on, give it some welly away from the pub".

So I did, just as we were going over a speed bump, dropped the clutched.

It had 355 wide tyres on it which were never going to wheel spin.

So the old flat four pulled the gearbox of its mountings and was only left in the car by the gear linkage and drive shafts.

My how the punters outside that pub laughed.

It was really embarrassing.

[ktm jeff]

soihok , we are about the same age and my first visit to Thailand was in the early 90,s. Came scuba diving with my mate who left England for Australia around 2000. We both trained in the automotive engineering industry . You took a brave leap of faith going to Thailand so young , but it seems it was the right move. You must have that desicion reinforced if you ever return for a "hloiday". Will be back in CM next Feb and Im hoping to be over full time in 2016.

[soihok]

Cheers Jeff.

I didn't head straight for Thailand in 92, arrived in 95 for the first time. This was after travelling long periods around South America and India/Nepal/Sri Lanka.

Ended living in Hong Kong for about 5 years, through the handover, (owned another GSXR750 there , when I left I gave it away for a couple of beers to a Brit I met in a bar).

So many tales to tell..

Can't wait to get out on the new bike.

[Overandout]

Check out ebay Australia for top notch investing! (No link provided just in case)

A guy is selling 2 NOS RG500s in the same auction, current bid is over 95,000 AU$.... with 6 days to go!!

[soihok]

Wow.

That's a lot of money for the bikes.