Leaving without cancelled WP and extension

[kawaiimomo]

I will try to sum up my situation:

- Old WP expired on June 19th, new one was made (15 days in between)

- Extension in passport shows until September 9th (but obviously is not valid since June 19th)

- Will leave on monday or tuesday (Sept 8th or 9th) to apply on Singapore for a new non-B for a different company

- Current WP is not cancelled

- Obviously I also don't have a cancellation stamp on the extension

What are the chances of getting stop at Suvarnabhumi or Don Mueang? Any recommendations other than having the 20k ready?

I actually tried to extend the extension of stay because I am still on the 30 day notice period. The officer noticed the WP was just 2 months old and the extension was going on for over 2 years, so she realized there was a gap. I was offered to pay the overstay for that gap and extend again but the company documents were not updated as of August so I couldn't do it. I explained the whole thing to the new company and they offered to sponsor the new visa in Singapore (there because no labour letter or WP application receipt required).

Now I am reading some people had problems when leaving due to not having the extension cancelled, so I started panicking. I guess the best case-scenario is that nothing happens as they will just see the 'valid in passport' extension stamp. What is the worst one? I am thinking about cancelling the WP and/or getting a termination letter from my current company. But cancelling the current extension would mean paying the overstay as they would notice it stopped being valid since almost 80 days ago (honestly, my current financial situation could benefit from avoiding the fine although I am willing to pay beforehand if that could save some trouble).

What would you do?? Need help please :-/

[paz]

Leaving by air there are no checks on work permit, cancellation letters, or anything like.

Edited September 4, 2014 by paz

[kawaiimomo]

Thanks paz!

Let's hope everything goes fine and I am back in 3 days with my new non-B and start my new job with a more serious company that won't make me go through this stressful situation again :-)

[bangkapi]

It's coming back into Thailand that could be a problem if you start looking for other work.

I have a "friend" who was working in an international school who did not renew his contract after the fifth year.

He went on vacation for 2 months to USA and then came back to Thailand to look for new work.

When he went to immigration, they fined him over 13,000 baht back and charged him for overstay from the day he left Thailand. He also got an ugly stamp in his passport.

The rules are a bit weird and convoluted. Always make sure that visas and permits are cancelled or used up if you ever plan to come back to LOS.

[SiggiCM]

It's coming back into Thailand that could be a problem if you start looking for other work.

I have a "friend" who was working in an international school who did not renew his contract after the fifth year.

He went on vacation for 2 months to USA and then came back to Thailand to look for new work.

When he went to immigration, they fined him over 13,000 baht back and charged him for overstay from the day he left Thailand. He also got an ugly stamp in his passport.

The rules are a bit weird and convoluted. Always make sure that visas and permits are cancelled or used up if you ever plan to come back to LOS.

dont spread such a B***S, how they can charge for overstay when you are not in the country,

and if the contract wasn´t renew and he left so nothing wrong, the only thing is he had to start new aplication nothing else,

I ahte when peopel writing, I hear from a friend of mine, write things you can swear on it or stop spreading any rumors

[digitalchromakey]

The fact that your current employer couldn't persuade labour to keep the old WP alive meant that your Case 2.1 Extension expired back on June 19th, which sets you up for a 20,000 THB overstay.

Option 1:

Don't go back to Immigration and exit Thailand.

Your current extension expires on the 9th September, so plan to exit Thailand around then with the papers to apply for a single entry non 'b' from your new employer along with an introduction letter stating that you will start work in October.

Take your current WP and keep your fingers crossed, you might just get away with it.

Problem is that your local immigration dept is on to you and wants to nail you for an overstay, this could come back to haunt you.

Option 2:

Go back to immigration and bite the bullet - insist that your employer pays the overstay as it's 100% their fault.

Option 1 (which is what you are proposing to do) is risky because immigration will probably catch up with you when you go back for an extension with your new employer.

Option 2 gives you a 'clean sheet' since black listing is not yet on the statute books.

[bigt116]

Again !! VISAs do not get cancelled, only Extensions of Stay , (if based on the employment you are leaving) !

[digitalchromakey]

Again !! VISAs do not get cancelled, only Extensions of Stay , (if based on the employment you are leaving) !

Sorry, but who is writing about cancelling a visa?

Edited September 6, 2014 by digitalchromakey

[gyrosman]

I've taught here for several years and within a week your company sponsor will have cancelled your "B" visa for work which means your stay in Thailand on that visa ends and if stay you'll probably be charged overstay fees and you mention 80 days overstay already at 90 you're band for 1 year. Maybe some people slide through but a business friend was 6 months over and order to leave and band for 1 year and he is married to a Thai and was a partner in a 10 million a month constuction business.

Last year I took 2 fellow teachers to the Cambodia border to do a walk through, immigration was confused because their "B" visa was good for several more months and he wanted to know what they were doing. Well, 1 teacher just up and quit so everything just finished, the other was fired and as stated the company cancelled his "B"visa in 3 days which givs you seven days from the date of being fired to leave Thailand or fix your visa status.

Immigation came to their house 2 days later to check to see if they were preparing to exit Thailand. Good Luck with the new Thailand.Trash the WP that means nothing.

[bigt116]

It's coming back into Thailand that could be a problem if you start looking for other work.

I have a "friend" who was working in an international school who did not renew his contract after the fifth year.

He went on vacation for 2 months to USA and then came back to Thailand to look for new work.

When he went to immigration, they fined him over 13,000 baht back and charged him for overstay from the day he left Thailand. He also got an ugly stamp in his passport.

The rules are a bit weird and convoluted. Always make sure that visas and permits are cancelled or used up if you ever plan to come back to LOS.

Sorry Digitalchromakey, my post was not aimed at your post :-)

Edited September 6, 2014 by bigt116

[bigt116]

I've taught here for several years and within a week your company sponsor will have cancelled your "B" visa for work which means your stay in Thailand on that visa ends and if stay you'll probably be charged overstay fees and you mention 80 days overstay already at 90 you're band for 1 year. Maybe some people slide through but a business friend was 6 months over and order to leave and band for 1 year and he is married to a Thai and was a partner in a 10 million a month constuction business.

Last year I took 2 fellow teachers to the Cambodia border to do a walk through, immigration was confused because their "B" visa was good for several more months and he wanted to know what they were doing. Well, 1 teacher just up and quit so everything just finished, the other was fired and as stated the company cancelled his "B"visa in 3 days which givs you seven days from the date of being fired to leave Thailand or fix your visa status.

Immigation came to their house 2 days later to check to see if they were preparing to exit Thailand. Good Luck with the new Thailand.Trash the WP that means nothing.

How many times !!!!!!!!!1 VISAs do NOT get cancelled !!!

The banning of reentry for overstay has not yet come into effect.

You don't have 7 days to leave the country, unless you apply for that extension.

[gyrosman]

Again !! VISAs do not get cancelled, only Extensions of Stay , (if based on the employment you are leaving) !

You do not get a work permit without having a "B" visa from your company and if you quit or get fired your "B" is cancelled by the company within seven days, trying working for AYC of Bangkok and see. Flashing a work permit around is useless, an extension of stay is a border run or immigration cost for 30 days. Work permit and "B" visa is gone.

[digitalchromakey]

Again !! VISAs do not get cancelled, only Extensions of Stay , (if based on the employment you are leaving) !

You do not get a work permit without having a "B" visa from your company and if you quit or get fired your "B" is cancelled by the company within seven days, trying working for AYC of Bangkok and see. Flashing a work permit around is useless, an extension of stay is a border run or immigration cost for 30 days. Work permit and "B" visa is gone.

This is not correct, if you have Non Immigrant 'B' Visa obtained from a Thai Consular Facility in another country, this is unaffected by a WP cancellation, only extensions based on working in Thailand can and must be cancelled in this case.

There is no seven day grace period on cancellation of WP, unless the extension is for a BOI company from the One Stop Centre in BKK.

[BruceMangosteen]

There is no re-entry permit involved we assume. So, obviously, the extension of stay cancels upon departure. If there is a multiple re-entry in play, it would we also assume expire in a day or two, while the farang is out of the country. Therefore common sense dictates the application will be greeted in Singapore with no unfavorable tenor or complications and the decision for a new VISA being based upon existing laws being enforced in said country along with the mood of the officer who your number puts you with. The Work Permit is also expired so a non-issue.

[BruceMangosteen]

When he went to immigration, they fined him over 13,000 baht back and charged him for overstay from the day he left Thailand.

dont spread such a B***S, how they can charge for overstay when you are not in the country,

I didn't read it that way. He means from the day he left backwards when here illegally. Any mental midget knows they can't charge you for overstay days when you aren't in the Kingdom. That said, I was actually warned they do try it on when your WP is denied after your extension based on employment has been granted. The situation involved the farang being out of the country some of the days, yet, he was admitted back in based upon a multiple re-entry stamp granted based on the extension. The WP issue was never sorted and he left again never to return. No problem at the airport. I don't think these computers are linked, sort of like the USA used to be with the FBI and CIA.

[Shurup]

Working in Thailand for 6 years, I've never been asked to show my WP during my monthly in/out trips.

Since my WP got canceled, my Multiple entry "B" visa remained (was not canceled) and was still used for a number of trips into the country. Later on, I applied for a different visa.

[BruceMangosteen]

Working in Thailand for 6 years, I've never been asked to show my WP during my monthly in/out trips.

Since my WP got canceled, my Multiple entry "B" visa remained (was not canceled) and was still used for a number of trips into the country. Later on, I applied for a different visa.

If the VISA was granted based upon the employment and employer on the Work Permit, you were in fact illegally in the Kingdom once the WP was canceled. It's not that anyone on here cares about that aspect but the new Government has hinted they are going to link the computers at some point. They have such a long list of projects who knows, but they did get the rice farmers paid.

[Shurup]

Yes I know and I got my new visa as soon as I could.

Just wanted to point out that visa don't get canceled together with a WP. And there's no way really to find out unless they link their computers.

[bigt116]

Working in Thailand for 6 years, I've never been asked to show my WP during my monthly in/out trips.

Since my WP got canceled, my Multiple entry "B" visa remained (was not canceled) and was still used for a number of trips into the country. Later on, I applied for a different visa.

If the VISA was granted based upon the employment and employer on the Work Permit, you were in fact illegally in the Kingdom once the WP was canceled. It's not that anyone on here cares about that aspect but the new Government has hinted they are going to link the computers at some point. They have such a long list of projects who knows, but they did get the rice farmers paid.

I think you may find that that is wrong - While the Visa may have been issued for a specific letter of invitation to work, it is not tied to that job, and is valid for its duration whether or not you take up that employment.

[BruceMangosteen]

I think you may find that that is wrong - While the Visa may have been issued for a specific letter of invitation to work, it is not tied to that job, and is valid for its duration whether or not you take up that employment.

I'm not in tune with all the "letters" but without any doubt, a Non Imm VISA based up employment is in fact tied to a particular job/employer/employment. There is no point in debating it here on TV. It is a fact as I say, not an opinion. Again, I don't know the "letter" code but it's not marriage or retirement etc.. I'm referring more to renewals aka "extensions" and don't pretend to know all that much about the initial VISA.

[bigt116]

I think you may find that that is wrong - While the Visa may have been issued for a specific letter of invitation to work, it is not tied to that job, and is valid for its duration whether or not you take up that employment.

I'm not in tune with all the "letters" but without any doubt, a Non Imm VISA based up employment is in fact tied to a particular job/employer/employment. There is no point in debating it here on TV. It is a fact as I say, not an opinion. Again, I don't know the "letter" code but it's not marriage or retirement etc.. I'm referring more to renewals aka "extensions" and don't pretend to know all that much about the initial VISA.

You should really use the correct terminology then, because as is pointed out so often, visas and extensions of stay are totally different. If you refer to them both as visas you may well give some poor soul a large unexpected overstay bill, because of incorrect advice/terminology.

Edited September 6, 2014 by ubonjoe
moved reply from quoted text

[BruceMangosteen]

"You should really use the correct terminology then, because as is pointed out so often, visas and extensions of stay are totally different. If you refer to them both as visas you may well give some poor soul a large unexpected overstay bill, because of incorrect advice/terminology."

They are not totally different. The extension is in fact of the original "VISA" if I've got it right. Extensions of stay are granted based upon said VISA be it a Retirement or work related "VISA". I don't know how you can say my replies could cause an overstay accusation, it is indeed yours which would/could have. If you have a "work" VISA, whatever letter that is, and you have extended your stay(aka your VISA) and then lose your job and said employer goes to the trouble of notifying the various agencies, it could cause an overstay if you think like you posted, it is good until expires. The only matter I'm not sure of is the very first "VISA" aka the one put into your passport. Mine refers to the employer in a handwritten note on the actual sticker in Thai, perhaps yours doesn't or now they don't. I don't know and said as much. Good luck. Have the money when in doubt and don't leave anything in your flat of value in case you are blackballed.

[digitalchromakey]

"You should really use the correct terminology then, because as is pointed out so often, visas and extensions of stay are totally different. If you refer to them both as visas you may well give some poor soul a large unexpected overstay bill, because of incorrect advice/terminology."

They are not totally different. The extension is in fact of the original "VISA" if I've got it right. Extensions of stay are granted based upon said VISA be it a Retirement or work related "VISA". I don't know how you can say my replies could cause an overstay accusation, it is indeed yours which would/could have. If you have a "work" VISA, whatever letter that is, and you have extended your stay(aka your VISA) and then lose your job and said employer goes to the trouble of notifying the various agencies, it could cause an overstay if you think like you posted, it is good until expires. The only matter I'm not sure of is the very first "VISA" aka the one put into your passport. Mine refers to the employer in a handwritten note on the actual sticker in Thai, perhaps yours doesn't or now they don't. I don't know and said as much. Good luck. Have the money when in doubt and don't leave anything in your flat of value in case you are blackballed.

Yes they are, the extension is based on eligibility at extension application time and not in any way the application basis for the original non immigrant visa which was made a Thai Consular Facility which serves merely as a pre-cursor.

Extensions of Permission to Stay are not visas (which permit you to apply to enter Thailand at a border) - leave Thailand with an extension, but with out a re-entry permit, and you will find out that an extension is not and never will be a visa - you will not be allowed to enter Thailand with just an an Extension, other than as Visa Exempt.

[kawaiimomo]

The fact that your current employer couldn't persuade labour to keep the old WP alive meant that your Case 2.1 Extension expired back on June 19th, which sets you up for a 20,000 THB overstay.

Option 1:

Don't go back to Immigration and exit Thailand.

Your current extension expires on the 9th September, so plan to exit Thailand around then with the papers to apply for a single entry non 'b' from your new employer along with an introduction letter stating that you will start work in October.

Take your current WP and keep your fingers crossed, you might just get away with it.

Problem is that your local immigration dept is on to you and wants to nail you for an overstay, this could come back to haunt you.

Option 2:

Go back to immigration and bite the bullet - insist that your employer pays the overstay as it's 100% their fault.

Option 1 (which is what you are proposing to do) is risky because immigration will probably catch up with you when you go back for an extension with your new employer.

Option 2 gives you a 'clean sheet' since black listing is not yet on the statute books.

I took the option 1 and I was back with a new non-B and stamped for the usual 3 months. How is it possible for immigration to catch up with me when doing the extension on a different job? I don't think they have any info related to my previous WPs so it should be impossible for them to notice the gap between them.

[kawaiimomo]

Thanks to all for the replies. I exited on the last day of the extension via Suvarnabhumi without any issue at the passport control. I had the problems at the Thai embassy in Singapore because they requested my current WP or proof of cancelation, I will write a report post now.

[digitalchromakey]

The fact that your current employer couldn't persuade labour to keep the old WP alive meant that your Case 2.1 Extension expired back on June 19th, which sets you up for a 20,000 THB overstay.

Option 1:

Don't go back to Immigration and exit Thailand.

Your current extension expires on the 9th September, so plan to exit Thailand around then with the papers to apply for a single entry non 'b' from your new employer along with an introduction letter stating that you will start work in October.

Take your current WP and keep your fingers crossed, you might just get away with it.

Problem is that your local immigration dept is on to you and wants to nail you for an overstay, this could come back to haunt you.

Option 2:

Go back to immigration and bite the bullet - insist that your employer pays the overstay as it's 100% their fault.

Option 1 (which is what you are proposing to do) is risky because immigration will probably catch up with you when you go back for an extension with your new employer.

Option 2 gives you a 'clean sheet' since black listing is not yet on the statute books.

I took the option 1 and I was back with a new non-B and stamped for the usual 3 months. How is it possible for immigration to catch up with me when doing the extension on a different job? I don't think they have any info related to my previous WPs so it should be impossible for them to notice the gap between them.

When you go for a new extension, you don't think they might look at your passport, see your last extension stamp then cross reference?

You think Immigration don't keep records on their computers?

Extensions of Permission to Stay based on Working in the Kingdom of Thailand are always passed to the immigration regional head office for approval during the one month conditional period.

As I posted previously, if you followied this route you might get away with it, but I wouldn't guarantee.

[mrtoad]

My understanding is that WP and Immigration are not linked. The rules that if on extension of stay then technically you have to leave the country etc, etc. I seriously doubt that anyone is going to be stopped at immigration on the way out if they are within the dates stamped on the extension of stay, and have a entry permit stamped in it.

[kawaiimomo]

When you go for a new extension, you don't think they might look at your passport, see your last extension stamp then cross reference?

You think Immigration don't keep records on their computers?

Extensions of Permission to Stay based on Working in the Kingdom of Thailand are always passed to the immigration regional head office for approval during the one month conditional period.

As I posted previously, if you followied this route you might get away with it, but I wouldn't guarantee.

For sure they keep records, but if Immigration doesn't explicitly request the information to Labour then it is impossible for them to notice that the extension became invalid when the WP expired. Looking at the passport and their own computers it should be impossible to notice it, as I don't recall the officer typing anything on the computer when she discovered that the extension was invalid. Also, the options I was given by them was to pay the overstay or to leave the country and get a new visa. I'll keep my fingers crossed anyway ;-)

[digitalchromakey]

My understanding is that WP and Immigration are not linked. The rules that if on extension of stay then technically you have to leave the country etc, etc. I seriously doubt that anyone is going to be stopped at immigration on the way out if they are within the dates stamped on the extension of stay, and have a entry permit stamped in it.

It's not a technicality, if your WP expires or is cancelled and you are on an extension based on working, then you have to leave the country or provide a new basis for extension.

They may be no formalised communication channel, however the problem in this case is that the OP's employer let the WP expire and immigration have already noticed that fact.

In this case the OP showed the new WP, Immigration saw that it was not continuous with the old WP and called an overstay, this is where the problem started.

[PST]

I have a one year extenstion which expires in August, I will give one months notice at work in July, as I am aware that once I leave my job, technically my visa is invalid along with my WP.

My question is this, I plan on re entering Thailand later on in August on a Non O from the UK based on marriage, so do I need to get a re enrty permit before I leave, even though I'm coming back in on a different visa?, and do I also need to cancel my extention before I leave?.

Thanks.

PST.