California to be first US state to ban plastic bags

[webfact]

California to be first US state to ban plastic bags

LOS ANGELES - California governor Jerry Brown said late Thursday he will approve a ban on single-use plastic bags, in what would make the western US state the first to outlaw them.

Lawmakers passed the bill late last Friday, and it now only requires Brown’s signature to pass into law. The governor must do so before the end of September.

"I probably will sign it, yes," Democratic veteran Brown said during a televised debate with his Republican election rival Neel Kashkari, who is trailing badly in opinion polls.

"In fact, I’ll tell you why I’m going to sign it: there are about 50 cities with their own plastic bag ban, and that’s causing a lot of confusion," he said, cited by the Los Angeles Times and other media.

He added: "This is a compromise .. It’s taking into account the needs of the environment, and the needs of the economy and the needs of the grocers."

Under the Californian legislation, single-use plastic bags would disappear from grocery stores and pharmacies from July 1, 2015, and then from convenience and liquor stores from July 1, 2016.

The bill would allow stores to charge 10 cents for paper or reusable bags. Similar bans, backed by environmentalists, are already in place in cities including Los Angeles and San Francisco.

A ban is opposed by Republicans who say it would be too much government meddling for small and medium sized businesses, and by bag manufacturers who fear job losses.

Kashkari -- who latest polls indicate trails by 50 per cent to 34 per cent for the November 4 gubernatorial post -- said he opposes the legislation.

"No chance would I sign that bill," he said in Thursday’s debate.
AFP

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/California-to-be-first-US-state-to-ban-plastic-bag-30242591.html


-- The Nation 2014-09-05

[lee b]

Great, wish they would ban them here in Thailand or if not charge crazy prices per bag like they do in the UK.

[Seastallion]

Good.

Disposable nappies (diapers) next, I hope.

Of course the Republicans only worry about the dollar.

Edited September 5, 2014 by Seastallion

[canman]

I'm old enough to remember when the "enviromentalists" told us all that we had to stop using paper bags because all the trees were being cut down. Now they want us to go back to the paper bags. I wish they would make up their minds.

It's not easy being green

[BudRight]

The 'only' state to ban them, not the 'first.' Otherwise it implies knowledge of the future.

[craigt3365]

I was in Rwanda a few years ago where plastic bags are banned. I was amazed at how clean the countryside was. Bottles and cans get recycled, but not plastic bags. You were not even allowed to bring them in with you on the plane! Great idea. I hate being given a plastic bag for something like a pack of gum.

[Seastallion]

I'm old enough to remember when the "enviromentalists" told us all that we had to stop using paper bags because all the trees were being cut down. Now they want us to go back to the paper bags. I wish they would make up their minds.

It's not easy being green

That was probably in the days when most pulp came from natural forests. Paper pulp now comes from renewable sources and as a bonus is a carbon sink..

[spidermike007]

A ban is opposed by Republicans who say it would be too much government meddling for small and medium sized businesses, and by bag manufacturers who fear job losses.

Kashkari -- who latest polls indicate trails by 50 per cent to 34 per cent for the November 4 gubernatorial post -- said he opposes the legislation.

"No chance would I sign that bill," he said in Thursday’s debate.
AFP

​Of course not. The man, and his entire party is ethically and morally bankrupt. Strip the environment of any hope it has of surviving long term, in favor of a few more sales. That is smart. Visionary. Real leadership.

In reality many of us have been carrying our own bags for years. This will just force the slumbering masses to do so. It is very easy to do. It makes sense. I cannot even buy a bottle of water anymore, as it causes me pain to consume that amount of plastic. I get the 20 liter bottles at home, and fill them up hundreds of times, and bring them to restaurants, and nearly anyplace I go. I tend to refuse water if it is in a new plastic bottle, as often as I can. I dread thinking where those bottles end up.

[Thaiready]

A ban is opposed by Republicans who say it would be too much government meddling for small and medium sized businesses, and by bag manufacturers who fear job losses.

Kashkari -- who latest polls indicate trails by 50 per cent to 34 per cent for the November 4 gubernatorial post -- said he opposes the legislation.

"No chance would I sign that bill," he said in Thursdays debate.

AFP

​Of course not. The man, and his entire party is ethically and morally bankrupt. Strip the environment of any hope it has of surviving long term, in favor of a few more sales. That is smart. Visionary. Real leadership.

In reality many of us have been carrying our own bags for years. This will just force the slumbering masses to do so. It is very easy to do. It makes sense. I cannot even buy a bottle of water anymore, as it causes me pain to consume that amount of plastic. I get the 20 liter bottles at home, and fill them up hundreds of times, and bring them to restaurants, and nearly anyplace I go. I tend to refuse water if it is in a new plastic bottle, as often as I can. I dread thinking where those bottles end up.

Cry me handful....

[belg]

legelise hemp and use that in stead of cutting trees ?

[Suradit69]

Great, wish they would ban them here in Thailand or if not charge crazy prices per bag like they do in the UK.

"...like they do in the UK."

I'm sure every day we all pray we can be more like the UK-paradise in environmental matters ... and golly in just every way. It would be a dream come true.

More than a third of the waste paper and plastic collected by British local authorities, supermarkets and businesses for recycling is being sent 8,000 miles to China without any knowledge of the environmental or social costs - and to the complete surprise of most consumers.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2004/sep/20/environment.china

"...and to the complete surprise of most consumers."

Not so much "surprise" as complacent & self-satisfied ignorance.

A businessman from the English city of Leeds says that he is "shocked" that rubbish he put out for recycling has ended up being dumped in India.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7668178.stm

"We are shipping a phenomenal amount of waste, maybe 15,000 tonnes a week to China," said a spokesman for Warrant freight forwarders of Liverpool. The current price for sending a standard 26-tonne container of waste plastic to China, he said, is about £500

Edited September 5, 2014 by Suradit69

[Benmart]

Glad to hear it.

Here in Pattaya, I take my own reusable bag(s) when shopping. I have to chuckle as the clerks try to put my purchases in plastic bags, even though I had given them my reusable one beforehand.

More often than not, they still try to plastic bag my bread, cheese or any other suspect purchases. I smile and tell them to put them into the reusable bag, minus the plastic.

[Guitar God]

I wonder who will go on record of being the first Californian busted for possession of a single use plastic bag?

Usually it's the contents, not the container that cause the legal problems.

People usually plan to go grocery shopping, it's not that hard to plan to bring a bag. It seems wasteful to use a bag for a few minutes then throw it away. 7-11 automatically starts putting everything in bags whether you want it or not, can of pop, bottle of water, ready to eat pizza slice..

[Credo]

Good.

Disposable nappies (diapers) next, I hope.

Of course the Republicans only worry about the dollar.

That can't get rid of nappies, all the republicans will be soiling themselves.

[Trouble]

As one who lives in California, I am faced with this stupid law every time I goes to the store. I don't so much mind using paper instead of plastic but I do mind the state or local government mandating a 10 cent charge on each bag. When I was growing up the grocery story or drug store provided this as part of doing business. Today the do gooders think they have to make a point of everything. If you are going to outlaw the plastic, fine, but don't tell the stores and public how they must deal with the consequences. Just let the retail outlets build the cost of the paper bags into the cost of doing business like it used to be. Like everything else the politicians and do gooders get involved in, they seem to think they need to micromanage everything. Next they will figure out how to tax the paper bags in an attempt to cut down the use and save the trees.

The damn government encourages population growth by the income tax structure and then is constantly passing laws and regulations to deal with the crap the people generate. Less people might just equal less pollution.

[luckizuchinni]

I'm old enough to remember when the "enviromentalists" told us all that we had to stop using paper bags because all the trees were being cut down. Now they want us to go back to the paper bags. I wish they would make up their minds.

It's not easy being green

That was probably in the days when most pulp came from natural forests. Paper pulp now comes from renewable sources and as a bonus is a carbon sink..

Paper bags are not a carbon sink. As they decompose, they release the carbon back into the atmosphere. Paper also causes far more water and air pollution and takes more power to create than plastic.

On the other hand, plastic is far more unsightly as the bags drift around the environment, cause problems with water intake pipes, and can harm wildlife.

If you recycle the plastic bags, the gap is even wider.

Reusable bags though, whether from plastic or cotton, have the lowest environmental impact.

[alant]

once upon a time, thaivisa was for Thai related subject matter not Californian money from plastic bag schemes.

[craigt3365]

once upon a time, thaivisa was for Thai related subject matter not Californian money from plastic bag schemes.

This sub forum is specifically for world news. We have another sub forum that is only for Thai news.

[willyumiii]

Good on California!

When my Thai wife lived in California with me for six years, she was amazed at how much "Californians love and protect nature".

California is a remarkably clean ( air, water and land ) and healthy place to live.

I believe the ban on plastic will spread to other environmentally aware areas of the world.

Thailand will ban them also...in maybe 40 or 50 years when they come up with an alternate source of cheap rain hats!

[DaiHard]

Great, wish they would ban them here in Thailand or if not charge crazy prices per bag like they do in the UK.

I left the UK to get away from nanny state tossers and now you've followed me over here. Thailand happens to be one of the largest manufacturers of biodegrable bags.

[BKKdreaming]

who gets the 10 cents a bag ?

if it goes into the store owners pockets then its a BS law.....

and who is going to check how many 10 cent bags a shop "sells"

yes I always forget to bring a bag , a guess I will just buy a "handful" of groceries if I forget , or steal a cardboard box at no charge

Edited September 6, 2014 by BKKdreaming

[EBlair48]

There was an op-ed reprinted in BP last week about this law, the author pointed out while well meaning, it does very little for saving energy or the environment. He recommended, somewhat facetiously a ban on furniture as it is the real pollutant-rarely recycled, emits a lot of toxins in manufacturing, uses new wood sources and takes up a lot of landfill room.

[Seastallion]

As one who lives in California, I am faced with this stupid law every time I goes to the store. I don't so much mind using paper instead of plastic but I do mind the state or local government mandating a 10 cent charge on each bag. When I was growing up the grocery story or drug store provided this as part of doing business. Today the do gooders think they have to make a point of everything. If you are going to outlaw the plastic, fine, but don't tell the stores and public how they must deal with the consequences. Just let the retail outlets build the cost of the paper bags into the cost of doing business like it used to be. Like everything else the politicians and do gooders get involved in, they seem to think they need to micromanage everything. Next they will figure out how to tax the paper bags in an attempt to cut down the use and save the trees.

The damn government encourages population growth by the income tax structure and then is constantly passing laws and regulations to deal with the crap the people generate. Less people might just equal less pollution.

If I could clear some misunderstanding, you might be a happier person.

Firstly, the government has not "mandated" a 10c charge, they have provided for it to be legal should the shop wish to so charge it. It's not an authoritarian mandate, it's an option.

Secondly, you continue to have the option of taking your own bags. Your choice.

Thirdly, if they built the 10c cost into the sales and gave the bags out for free, you are still paying for them. You can be sure the cost of the plastic bags was built in to the operating costs of the shop.

[Scott]

An inflammatory post and reply have been deleted.

[Benmart]

As one who lives in California, I am faced with this stupid law every time I goes to the store. I don't so much mind using paper instead of plastic but I do mind the state or local government mandating a 10 cent charge on each bag. When I was growing up the grocery story or drug store provided this as part of doing business. Today the do gooders think they have to make a point of everything. If you are going to outlaw the plastic, fine, but don't tell the stores and public how they must deal with the consequences. Just let the retail outlets build the cost of the paper bags into the cost of doing business like it used to be. Like everything else the politicians and do gooders get involved in, they seem to think they need to micromanage everything. Next they will figure out how to tax the paper bags in an attempt to cut down the use and save the trees.

The damn government encourages population growth by the income tax structure and then is constantly passing laws and regulations to deal with the crap the people generate. Less people might just equal less pollution.

I retired, left California and now live full-time in Thailand.

I found that voting for limited options, complaining and wringing my hands was affecting my inner peace.

Here in Thailand, I live and let live. I also take my own bags to the store and life goes on.

Easy Does It.

[spidermike007]

Glad to hear it.

Here in Pattaya, I take my own reusable bag(s) when shopping. I have to chuckle as the clerks try to put my purchases in plastic bags, even though I had given them my reusable one beforehand.

More often than not, they still try to plastic bag my bread, cheese or any other suspect purchases. I smile and tell them to put them into the reusable bag, minus the plastic.

I encounter the same. Sometimes they look at me like I am from Mars. Wow. What a concept. He brought his own bag. I never thought about doing that. I would never do that, as someone may laugh at me. And doing something different or unusual is so strange. I do not want to be different. I want to remain asleep, and consume as much plastic as I can. Plastic is good for my country. There is nothing wrong with plastic. Why wouldn't it be good, if there is so much of it?

Maybe one day Thailand will have a visionary leader, who is willing to provide an example and some wisdom for the people. Maybe. Just maybe.

[NeverSure]

That was probably in the days when most pulp came from natural forests. Paper pulp now comes from renewable sources and as a bonus is a carbon sink..

Paper bags are not a carbon sink. As they decompose, they release the carbon back into the atmosphere. Paper also causes far more water and air pollution and takes more power to create than plastic.

On the other hand, plastic is far more unsightly as the bags drift around the environment, cause problems with water intake pipes, and can harm wildlife.

If you recycle the plastic bags, the gap is even wider.

Reusable bags though, whether from plastic or cotton, have the lowest environmental impact.

I agree with you only if the paper isn't recycled. By far most is in responsible countries. It is simply far cheaper and more energy efficient to recycle paper than it is to produce it new from trees.

There are huge tree farms that do nothing but grow wood pulp for paper and they are carbon sinks. The one below is in the US along the Columbia River which divides the State of Washington from the State of Oregon. This one happens to be in Oregon but there are some in Washington also. The trees are a fast growing Poplar, BTW.

[bonobo]

That was probably in the days when most pulp came from natural forests. Paper pulp now comes from renewable sources and as a bonus is a carbon sink..

Paper bags are not a carbon sink. As they decompose, they release the carbon back into the atmosphere. Paper also causes far more water and air pollution and takes more power to create than plastic.

On the other hand, plastic is far more unsightly as the bags drift around the environment, cause problems with water intake pipes, and can harm wildlife.

If you recycle the plastic bags, the gap is even wider.

Reusable bags though, whether from plastic or cotton, have the lowest environmental impact.

I agree with you only if the paper isn't recycled. By far most is in responsible countries. It is simply far cheaper and more energy efficient to recycle paper than it is to produce it new from trees.

There are huge tree farms that do nothing but grow wood pulp for paper and they are carbon sinks. The one below is in the US along the Columbia River which divides the State of Washington from the State of Oregon. This one happens to be in Oregon but there are some in Washington also. The trees are a fast growing Poplar, BTW.

They are not really carbon sinks in that they only temporarily take carbon out of the atmosphere. It is released back into the atmosphere as the paper decomposes, and more carbon is released in the manufacturing process (this is only looking at atmospheric pollution, not water.) As far as recycling, it takes more energy to recycle paper than plastic. Most proponents of paper bags over plastic claim that paper is carbon neutral, but this ignores the huge amount of energy required to make paper.

For trees to be carbon sinks, they cannot be harvested. Even then, the entire concept of carbon sinks is under scrutiny, and many groups dismiss the concept, particularly with regards to plantations.

Counter-intuitively, biodegradable plastic made from renewable resources are not as environmentally (with regards to global warming) friendly as that made from oil. However with finite oil reserves, there will be a limit as to how much oil-based plastic can be made.

[submaniac]

I am typing this from California. I hate nanny states. Government is to make sure that your country is not invaded, and there are police on the streets to preserve order. Anything beyond that is gratuitous. I am also a registered democrat so I would consider myself more liberal than conservative, but in living in California I realize how many stupid ideas the environmentalists have shoved down our throats and have made life more aggravating and are based upon unsubstantiated theories. This is another one of them. There are alot of laws that should be written, but wasting time outlawing plastic bags is not one of them.

[boomerangutang]

A ban is opposed by Republicans who say it would be too much government meddling for small and medium sized businesses,...

...but Republicans LOVE government meddling for super sized businesses. They would hate for a giant corporate biz headed by one of their buddies to get hurt for being badly-run. Quick, run to congress and get several billion dollar bail-outs a.s.a.p. AIS comes to mind.