New road safety video released by UK police

[AllanB]

This video is big news in the UK, released by the police in an effort to reduce deaths by making people think about their riding behavior. I for one think it is a good idea, driving at the speed limit I have been overtaken by half a dozen bikes, in a month, many riding at double my speed.

Bikers are hard enough to see here with many riders dressed in black leather, this nutcase was doing nearly a ton, so no chance for other drivers when making a valued judgement.

Poor guy in the car.

[ktm jeff]

This video was released by the guys family , asking car drivers to look out for bikes. the driver was prosecuted for causing the riders death.

[manarak]

This video was released by the guys family , asking car drivers to look out for bikes. the driver was prosecuted for causing the riders death.

what ???

I hope he wasn't sentenced, the bike driver was:

1- way too fast

2- so fast that he was unable to break

3- so fast he was unable to react in time

4- so fast he was unable to dodge the car

And I'd like to add - high speed alone is not dangerous driving (yes, even at twice the limit).

Excessive speed in situations requiring low speed is dangerous driving!

Edited September 5, 2014 by manarak

[RubberSideDown]

The driver admitted he never saw the bike (or even the car behind it)- the police investigation ruled the driver should not have attempted that maneuver (regardless of the speed of the bike). There was no judgement for the driver to make- he moved into the oncoming lane without looking- had he bothered to turn his head or check if the way was clear, the rider would still be alive.

While the bike's speed was obviously a factor in the rider's death and that was a stupid place to be riding so fast, that car would have pulled out in front of him in any case- had the bike been going slower he may have been able to take evasive action, but the 'car turning right (or left depending on the country) in front of a bike' scenario is what takes many of us out- always proceed with caution when there's a car in the turn lane up ahead- assume they don't see you (because that's probably the case).

This is from a UK newspaper:

The male driver of the Renault Clio David hit appeared in court following the accident.

The motorist admitted causing death by careless driving and got a 12 months community sentence in April and an 18 month driving ban.

He was also ordered to pay £200 costs with a £60 surcharge and do 130 hours unpaid work.

Ch Insp Spinks added: "We know from the footage that David was travelling up to 100mph. Regardless of the speed of the bike, the car manoeuvre should not have been attempted."

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/bereaved-family-releases-shocking-video-4165719

Edited September 5, 2014 by RubberSideDown

[ATF]

Car driver is a w-anker didn't even indicate he was turning. Probably on his phone or texting.

[RubberSideDown]

^

Yup- he also started his turn way too early- he's nearly parallel to the the oncoming lane when he should have been perpendicular to it:

[ATF]

^

Yup- he also started his turn way too early- he's nearly parallel to the the oncoming lane when he should have been perpendicular to it:

image.jpg

The bikers family obviously had a public defendant. The car driver should have been jailed minimum and a very hefty settlement.

[ATF]

Here's a Thai version. Look how far the passenger is thrown to the left of the pic.

Edited September 6, 2014 by ATF

[NomadJoe]

^ I think the driver went off screen left quickly, passenger is on the ground., and two pedestrians, one a child, were taken down by debris and or the driver.

[ll2]

This video was released by the guys family , asking car drivers to look out for bikes. the driver was prosecuted for causing the riders death.

what ???

I hope he wasn't sentenced, the bike driver was:

1- way too fast

2- so fast that he was unable to break

3- so fast he was unable to react in time

4- so fast he was unable to dodge the car

And I'd like to add - high speed alone is not dangerous driving (yes, even at twice the limit).

Excessive speed in situations requiring low speed is dangerous driving!

First of all RIP.

what?

man did not you watch the video?

the car came from other lane out of the blue without even looking to the road resulting on the death of the rider.

c'mon!

[pokerkid]

What would the reactions have been if a child would have crossed the road and the wannabe Rossi would have caused a collision while driving at almost 100mph.

[ll2]

What would the reactions have been if a child would have crossed the road and the wannabe Rossi would have caused a collision while driving at almost 100mph.

reaction would be getting angry to the parents of the child for not educating their kid or not setting up preventive measures.

i mean, as a parent, you have to take care of your child and educate them so he/she does not cross a busy road/highway, at least not alone.

Edited September 6, 2014 by ll2

[pokerkid]

still someone racing on public roads does not get any sympathy from me if something goes wrong.

live by the sword etc.

[DualSportBiker]

That poor technique is the national standard here in Thailand...

Whilst it is obvious the rider was driving with excessive speed, the driver screwed up. That turn has over 200 meters straight-line view to a crest. The biker was in-sight for more that long enough to be seen.

^

Yup- he also started his turn way too early- he's nearly parallel to the the oncoming lane when he should have been perpendicular to it:

image.jpg

[AllanB]

According to the news, the police released it with the permission of the guy's parents, although another report had it the other way around. If the car driver was prosecuted (the news article didn't mention it) it was a travesty, how can any judge distances when the bike is doing almost twice the speed limit? Race track marshals have special training to do their job dealing with these sort of speeds, car drivers don't.

Knowing the law here, it is possible the driver would take a small percentage of the responsibility. Years ago I had to take 33% responsibility for hitting a guy who jumped a red light, according to 3 witnesses.

The point is there are too many bikers here driving too fast, far more frequently than car drivers, stupid really given the bike riders vulnerability and relative invisibility to other drivers. It is as though bikers are just less mature than car drivers, this guy was 38 behaving like a 16 year old.

Edited September 6, 2014 by AllanB

[ATF]

Allan as I've said many times this forum should be separated into a real bikers and scooter riders forum.

Around 80% of the people here ride scooters and will never understand the thrill of riding at 200 mph/320 kph. They are more concerned about a dent in their basket or do I need to change my tires after 50,000 km.

100 mph really is nothing and as you saw in my video you can get wiped out just crossing the road.

Each to their own I ride for pleasure not necessity.

[AllanB]

The driver admitted he never saw the bike (or even the car behind it)- the police investigation ruled the driver should not have attempted that maneuver (regardless of the speed of the bike). There was no judgement for the driver to make- he moved into the oncoming lane without looking- had he bothered to turn his head or check if the way was clear, the rider would still be alive.

While the bike's speed was obviously a factor in the rider's death and that was a stupid place to be riding so fast, that car would have pulled out in front of him in any case- had the bike been going slower he may have been able to take evasive action, but the 'car turning right (or left depending on the country) in front of a bike' scenario is what takes many of us out- always proceed with caution when there's a car in the turn lane up ahead- assume they don't see you (because that's probably the case).

This is from a UK newspaper:

The male driver of the Renault Clio David hit appeared in court following the accident.

The motorist admitted causing death by careless driving and got a 12 months community sentence in April and an 18 month driving ban.

He was also ordered to pay £200 costs with a £60 surcharge and do 130 hours unpaid work.

Ch Insp Spinks added: "We know from the footage that David was travelling up to 100mph. Regardless of the speed of the bike, the car manoeuvre should not have been attempted."

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/bereaved-family-releases-shocking-video-4165719

It must be very difficult appearing in court following the trauma of a fatal accident and as a result it is very possible he would feel and then plead guilty to not being diligent. In court he may dismiss the fact that he was dealing with a small motorbike (a vehicle with a frontal area 1/10th that of a car) blasting towards him at an unexpected speed of a 100mph.

This is where the legal system falls down, it looks at the facts in terms of black and white and as a result the car drivers will bear the guilt for the rest of his life, all because this idiot thought he was a boy racer.

I think some you bikers don't realise just how small an object you and how invisible you are, as an experienced car driver I do and ride defensively at all times. I have had plenty of people who haven't seen me and I have been ready, so far.

I have the sense to understand that it is pointless being in the right when you are dead.

Edited September 6, 2014 by AllanB

[RubberSideDown]

^

If you read the Youtube description (this video was put up by the family, not the police- it's simple to Google more info) the driver admitted to not only not seeing the bike (speed wasn't an issue- there was no misjudgment), but also not seeing the car behind it.

Just because the bike was speeding doesn't absolve the driver of doing his due diligence- he didn't look before he turned. It's easy to make assumptions about why the driver plead guilty (especially when those assumptions support your point-of-view), but the facts of the case are available, as are the comments of police saying the driver was in the wrong based on the video evidence.

Cars turning in front of bikes (regardless of the bikes' speed) is (I believe) the most common cause of multi-vehicle motorcycle accidents- drivers don't see bikes, and the family put this video out there to raise awareness for drivers to pay better attention before making turns. The fact that even police officials found fault with the driver in spite of the motorcycle's speed says a lot.

'We bikers' are well aware of how we are perceived on the road. Obviously this rider made a poor call in riding so fast on that road, but the speed limit is 60mph- drivers will be moving at well over that speed on a regular basis when the road is clear and should be ready for possible speeders in their path when crossing it- it's not like it was an obstructed or busy 30mph road- it was dead-straight and empty- to not have seen that 1300cc bike was a serious (and criminal) lapse. This is why my HID headlights are on during the day unless I'm stopped behind a car at a light or I'm in slow traffic- if I'm coming at you, you're going to see me.

Edited September 6, 2014 by RubberSideDown

[ktm jeff]

AllanB Your previous posts have always made you come across as a decent guy , but i think your views here are a bit harsh (IMO). Speed wasnt a factor here (as in many cases of "sorry mate , i didnt see you" ) .Rider - of 20 years - was doing 97 in a national limit single carrigeway of 60 or 70 MPH. Car would have pulled out whatever speed bike was going , BUT yes , riding slower does give one more options to take evasive action. There may be an irony here , as the rider seems to take his left hand off the bars _possibly to thank the car he just overtook for moving slightly to the left - and then seems to glance at his left mirror. Taking his eyes (possibly) off the road for that time may have effected the outcome more than his speed. Some family has lost a loved one , and a fellow biker - no matter what you ride . AS II2 said RIP .

[ktm jeff]

RSD your last line "if im coming at you , your going to see me ". Dont bank on it mate. You know that.

[wantan]

Yep, riding a bike is dangerous. Riding fast is more dangerous. RIP

[DualSportBiker]

If you take a proper look at the clip you can see that the car has started its turn with the bike around 10 to 12 car lengths away, and is still in the turn box when the bike is between 40 and 50 meters away. The car is traveling at under 20 mph at the time.

Had the rider been doing 60, not 97, the time taken to close the gap would have extended from 1 second ((180,000/60)/60) = 50 meters per second, down to 1.9 seconds.

Do you think that would have made a significant difference? In all likelyhood, the bike would have hit or clipped the rear of the car. It is virtually impossible to guess what would have happened, but the final go/no-go decision should have been made while in the turn box when the bike was 50 meters out. Full-stop at that point would most likely leave enough room for the bike.

It was a travesty, but not that the driver was prosecuted. The rider was at fault for his speed, that is without question, but the driver turned a bad situation into a deadly one by making a pair of poor decisions; committed too early, and failed to check attentively enough to see a bike.

According to the news, the police released it with the permission of the guy's parents, although another report had it the other way around. If the car driver was prosecuted (the news article didn't mention it) it was a travesty, how can any judge distances when the bike is doing almost twice the speed limit? Race track marshals have special training to do their job dealing with these sort of speeds, car drivers don't.

Knowing the law here, it is possible the driver would take a small percentage of the responsibility. Years ago I had to take 33% responsibility for hitting a guy who jumped a red light, according to 3 witnesses.

The point is there are too many bikers here driving too fast, far more frequently than car drivers, stupid really given the bike riders vulnerability and relative invisibility to other drivers. It is as though bikers are just less mature than car drivers, this guy was 38 behaving like a 16 year old.

[RubberSideDown]

RSD your last line "if im coming at you , your going to see me ". Dont bank on it mate. You know that.

I know I should have added 'unless you're legally blind'.

[RubberSideDown]

If you take a proper look at the clip you can see that the car has started its turn with the bike around 10 to 12 car lengths away, and is still in the turn box when the bike is between 40 and 50 meters away. The car is traveling at under 20 mph at the time.

Had the rider been doing 60, not 97, the time taken to close the gap would have extended from 1 second ((180,000/60)/60) = 50 meters per second, down to 1.9 seconds.

Do you think that would have made a significant difference? In all likelyhood, the bike would have hit or clipped the rear of the car. It is virtually impossible to guess what would have happened, but the final go/no-go decision should have been made while in the turn box when the bike was 50 meters out. Full-stop at that point would most likely leave enough room for the bike.

It was a travesty, but not that the driver was prosecuted. The rider was at fault for his speed, that is without question, but the driver turned a bad situation into a deadly one by making a pair of poor decisions; committed too early, and failed to check attentively enough to see a bike.

I agree.

The bike would have been in view for a full five seconds (after passing the car in his lane)- if I'm the driver making that turn, I'm looking in the direction of oncoming traffic until I actually start moving- five seconds is a long time in that scenario, and there's no excuse for not having seen oncoming traffic. I think he might have plead guilty to avoid a more serious sentence, as the cop quoted in the article said the driver was in the wrong based on the video evidence.

[manarak]

This video was released by the guys family , asking car drivers to look out for bikes. the driver was prosecuted for causing the riders death.

what ???

I hope he wasn't sentenced, the bike driver was:

1- way too fast

2- so fast that he was unable to break

3- so fast he was unable to react in time

4- so fast he was unable to dodge the car

And I'd like to add - high speed alone is not dangerous driving (yes, even at twice the limit).

Excessive speed in situations requiring low speed is dangerous driving!

First of all RIP.

what?

man did not you watch the video?

the car came from other lane out of the blue without even looking to the road resulting on the death of the rider.

c'mon!

Maybe the car was at fault too, but the MC rider was riding so fast in an area marked "SLOW" that he couldn't stop, and maybe also too fast for a car driver with slow reactions to notice him.

When riding at that speed, one always has to anticipate cars turning in such manner.

[andreandre]

RIP the biker...His number was up..that's it!

Cars have turned in front of motorbikes[and other vehicles] from the beginning and always will do..Its all about perception in general, but especially depth perception and every driver is different at it.

Both were at fault tho' in this case...[iMO]

Edited September 6, 2014 by andreandre

[aitch52]

Yes a tragic accident RIP the young biker. I was in the UK when the Think Bike advert was out. One of the best safety films going, certainly changed my attitude when approaching a junction in a car or a bike. The words, think once, think twice, THINK BIKE seemed to come to you if in a car. Or has that eejit seen me if on a bike. Could certainly do with a similar campaign here in LOS.

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE 2.5 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[BKKBike09]

RIP.

http://www.bikesafer.com/detail/braketime.html

[Daffy D]

Why is that the car is almost always at fault when involved in an accident with a bike?

The excessive bike speed in the video is calmly dismissed as hardy relevant as if the car driver should have known the tiny dot of a motorbike would be barreling down the road at almost 100mph instead of driving within the legal speed and the limitations of his own capabilities.

The car driver has a reasonable expectation that the bike rider is within the speed limit and be aware of other traffic on the road.

The bike rider should have been aware that there was a possibility of the car making the maneuver to cross the road.

I am sorry for the death of yet another rider but he should have been within the speed limit and aware the road ahead.

[AllanB]

Some people just don't get how hard a biker is to see compared to a car and there are a number reasons for this.

1. The front elevation of a bike is about 1/10th that of a car.

2. Even if you do see this much smaller object, the much smaller size makes it more difficult to judge it's closing speed and in this case it was twice what anyone should expect.

3. With so few bikes on the road here, people are not necessarily looking out for them, they are expecting cars and trucks.

4. Many bikers are still doing their best to camouflage themselves wearing black leathers and not using headlights during the day.

It seems from many of the comments from so called "serious bikers" that you don't seem to care that you cannot be seen, feeling that right is right, resulting in some cases of being dead right.

Wingeing at car drivers is not a mature answer, making allowances for it is.

Instead of being aware of this, many bikers like this guy, make the situation 100% worse by riding at almost 100mph, more than twice the speed a car driver would expect. The maximum limit on the road is 60mph and this is an absolute maximum, most car drivers would slow down at such junctions, especially if someone was preparing to cross.

I know this particular road, it being only a few miles from my mooring and along with most others I drive at 50mph and would likely slow to 45 in case the driver made a mistake.

I doubt very much if the biker saw the car either and the result is one is dead and the other is traumatised for life. In my view the biker was 110% to blame and if it hadn't have happened on that day, it would have happened on another.

An accident waiting to happen........

Bikers need to wake up and face the fact that they are much harder to see and much easier to hurt.

Edited September 7, 2014 by AllanB