Scottish independence: Yes camp hails 'momentum'

[smokie36]

In fairness Smokie, it was the Tories who've given the Scots the option to vote on this. I stand to be corrected, but I believe this to be the case.

Salmond wanted a third option of an increased devolution in the question asked but Cameron refused.

Why is that?

Well firstly polls will have shown the Tories that a YES campaign could not possibly win......and in either case of yes or no the Tories would either gain a mandate to run the UK as a whole entity and keep funding to a minimum in the Scottish parliament....or independent of Scotland a guaranteed General Election win a few months later.

Its all gone rather wrong with things at 50/50 and the UKIP breathing down his neck!

[JockPieandBeans]

Wilcopops

Smokie

It is your prerogative to vote whichever way you want.

Having read through this thread.

It is very apparent that the nationalists can only see positives and no negatives.

Now only a lunatic would believe that.

So, what do you see as the negatives ?

How about you having a bash at listing those negatives ?

[smokie36]

Smokie

It is your prerogative to vote whichever way you want.

Having read through this thread.

It is very apparent that the nationalists can only see positives and no negatives.

Now only a lunatic would believe that.

So, what do you see as the negatives ?

Poor relations with our neighbour.....particularly when you have a Tory government.

I can only see this getting worse as we move heaven and earth to get investment into our new country.....Scotland and its people are going to wake up....the days of blaming the English for our woes will be over.

If things go badly to start with....which economically they might....we are under no illusions that we are going to be getting rich out of this.....but fixing things will be down to us and us alone....and to me that is right.

For too long we have not had the power to make changes to how we run our society.....and the view of most Scots is very different to that of the English on social issues and education.

I have no doubt Scottish education will once again become amongst the best in the world very quickly....and yes we will export that talent and expertise as we have always done....but I hope too that a generation from now many will remain to build a prosperous future for Scotland.

Issues such as which currency we use or whether we are part of the EU are minor to me.....and the no campaign would like us to believe they are huge....but in essence within a few years they will be forgotten.

Much as will Mr Osborne.....who in saying we can never have currency union....well he may not have that job by the time Scotland turns independent....nor may his government survive.

There are bigger issues at stake....more than the current Tory administration or Mr Salmond and his cronies.

It surprises me that so many can't see past this.

[JockPieandBeans]

Smokie

It is your prerogative to vote whichever way you want.

Having read through this thread.

It is very apparent that the nationalists can only see positives and no negatives.

Now only a lunatic would believe that.

So, what do you see as the negatives ?

Poor relations with our neighbour.....particularly when you have a Tory government.

I can only see this getting worse as we move heaven and earth to get investment into our new country.....Scotland and its people are going to wake up....the days of blaming the English for our woes will be over.

If things go badly to start with....which economically they might....we are under no illusions that we are going to be getting rich out of this.....but fixing things will be down to us and us alone....and to me that is right.

For too long we have not had the power to make changes to how we run our society.....and the view of most Scots is very different to that of the English on social issues and education.

I have no doubt Scottish education will once again become amongst the best in the world very quickly....and yes we will export that talent and expertise as we have always done....but I hope too that a generation from now many will remain to build a prosperous future for Scotland.

Issues such as which currency we use or whether we are part of the EU are minor to me.....and the no campaign would like us to believe they are huge....but in essence within a few years they will be forgotten.

Much as will Mr Osborne.....who in saying we can never have currency union....well he may not have that job by the time Scotland turns independent....nor may his government survive.

There are bigger issues at stake....more than the current Tory administration or Mr Salmond and his cronies.

It surprises me that so many can't see past this.

Smokie

I thank you for having the decency to respond in the fashion that you have. It makes a pleasant change to see that someone can actually articulate their reasoning. You have raised some very valid points.

Let me say, I could not give a flying fig for any politcal party or politician.

1. Poor relations with regards to our Neighbours. I would think that there are vast areas of England, Wales and NI that would would disagree with you.

2. I agree with you. The UK as a whole, is a hole and is only going to get worse. Which opens up a whole new topic of debate. What are the reasons for its decline and what are the policies that IS going to adopt to rectify this ?

3. Getting rich out of this. That is open to debate. What I will say is that in all the Countries that I have been to, the only people that get rich are the political elite and their cronies. Why would an IS be any different ?

4. Agreed. The Scottish Education system has became a joke, for various reason. Where is the policy for changing this ?

5. Currency. Well we could argue till the coos come home. All I will say, it does not matter what currency is used, if it is worth buttons, it is worth buttons.

6. Yes there are bigger issues at stake than any politician or political party.

For instance:

The Political Party system in the UK is immoral, corrupt and a <deleted> joke. How is an IS going to rectify this ?

The NHS is financially unsustainable and is on its knees. How is an IS going to rectify this ?

The Welfare State, again financially unsustainable. How is an IS going to deal with this ?

Immigration. The the UK has made a complete James Hunt of that. How is an IS going to deal with it ?

It is a widely accepted assumption, that the SNP will form the 1st Government in an IS. Where are the policies to cover the above ? Surely these issues should be in B&W and spelled out to the electorate before asking them to vote on Independence ?

Do you honestly believe that being Independent and baw deep in the EU makes you Independent ?

Over to you

[daveAustin]

Perfect, let's hope the Yes's have it! I feel for those jocks that don't want this, but speaking for a vast swathe of the English populace, it is way overdue. An independent Scotland can then join Europe and proceed to whine at them about everything under the sun. Happy days for the r of the UK, esp when they stick the middle finger up the EU. It'd all be worth repatriating for

[smokie36]

I am on my phone now so will give a more detailed reply later tonight but while I agree with many of those points I think the UK government is not going to tackle many of them unfortunately.

In Scotland joining the EU will be a key issue in any forthcoming election and unlike many of the YES campaign I would prefer to wait and see how we perform as an independent country before leaping into it.

The question following a YES vote will be which line the different parties will take and who the major players will be.

Obviously SNP and Labour but who knows if we will see a new party appear on the political scene in Scotland?

Labour have certainly done themselves no favours with voters yes or no during this campaign.

Anyhow....I got to run....

[Basil B]

Sounds they want all the benefits but don't want to pay for them, so they will still be a millstone around the neck of the UK

Won't the UK have to change its name? Scotland is easy. What will the remainder be called? Maybe at the same time you could take the opportunity to do away with that awful national anthem in favour of something with a bit more oomph! about it.

Could change from Great Britain to Little Britain.

The question regarding what Great Britain would be called if Scotland were to become independent, I propose "A Better Britain".

But there again I think Scottish independence will be a bad thing for all of us Brits both sides of the border.

But listening to a interview on the radio Monday morning with a person from the company/paper that conducted the poll it was stated that the figures published were "weighted" and the the actual poll was still a "NO" lead by a very small minority, maybe this was intended as a wake up call for the "NO" voters remind them their vote is very important,

[Chicog]

Watch the bookies if you want to know the most likely outcome.

[wilcopops]

If the Tories consider that Scotland scrounges so much welfare etc i'm sure the Tories would be HAPPY to see them go......or are they hiding something?

[David48]

Watch the bookies if you want to know the most likely outcome.

What is the current betting?

We don't have it here in OZ.

[JockPieandBeans]

Watch the bookies if you want to know the most likely outcome.

What is the current betting?

We don't have it here in OZ.

Paddy Power No 2/5 Yes 15/8

William Hill No 2/5 Yes 7/4

Ladbrokes No 2/5 Yes 15/8

[BKK Blues Brother]

Scotland should never have been given the opportunity to vote.

It will not only have disastrous consequences for them, but the whole of the UK as well.

That means that this vote is essentially undemocratic as it affects the majority, who are denied any say in the matter let alone a vote.

Does King Salmond and the SNP care about democracy?

They are excellent sales people and you are being sold lies!

FYI

Scotland ripping itself apart form the United Kingdom would be a twin edged sword for the UK because on the one hand the UK would no longer be burdened by having to to annually bribe the Scots with ever larger amounts of net subsidies where the annual block grant currently stands at £32 billion per year that helps bridge the gap between Scottish socialist government deficit spending and tax revenues. Against which there would be the loss of North Sea oil revenues that currently generate about £7 billion in tax revenue per year and therefore a net subsidy (bribe) to Scotland to stay in the Union of £25 billion per year before tax adjustments (income, corporation, vat etc.) that brings the net annual subsidy to Scotland down to £9 billion a year.

Whilst an £9 billion annual loss in revenues would devastate the £160 billion Scottish economy resulting in deep spending cuts and economy killing tax hikes to fill budgetary void. However, the saving to the UK of £9 billion per year would be more than offset by the loss of international investment as the UK becomes a far more riskier entity to invest in, park funds with and to do business with, potentially resulting in the annual loss of revenues of as much as over £100 billion per year. That is the real price of Scottish Independence and explains why Scotland can so easily blackmail the UK into paying a net £9 billion annual subsidy.

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article47228.html

[Jingthing]

Just a quick question.

Is there any reason, any reason at all, that people who aren't Scottish or U.K. nationals (or people obsessed with the movie Braveheart ) should care about the result of this election either way?

I can't think of one.

That said, I am curious to see the results in a sporting kind of way.

I think I want them to split ... that's the more dramatic result in that sense.

Edited September 10, 2014 by Jingthing

[transam]

Unfortunately Mr and Mrs Scot or immigrant don't understand anything about their future countries finances. For sure most will say ,"Hey, we are tough guys and gals" but the sad thing is they have not been told possible repercussions. I have read sooooo much crap from a canvasing YES guy I shake my head in disbelief, not a single word of might go wrong or negative stuff to be prepared for.

Blind leading the blind with absolutely no concrete evidence on anything........

[David48]

Scotland should never have been given the opportunity to vote.

Rubbish and a fanatical viewpoint.

Every Nation has a right to self determination.

If Scotland collectively decides that it is better out of the Union ... so be it.

Fiscally, I don't see it that way ... but I'll support them 100% for their right to decide for themselves.

.

[nontabury]

I am on my phone now so will give a more detailed reply later tonight but while I agree with many of those points I think the UK government is not going to tackle many of them unfortunately.

In Scotland joining the EU will be a key issue in any forthcoming election and unlike many of the YES campaign I would prefer to wait and see how we perform as an independent country before leaping into it.

The question following a YES vote will be which line the different parties will take and who the major players will be.

Obviously SNP and Labour but who knows if we will see a new party appear on the political scene in Scotland?

Labour have certainly done themselves no favours with voters yes or no during this campaign.

Anyhow....I got to run....

Out of 6 Scottish European parliamentary seats in the recent elections, one went to UKIP, in fact it was nearly two seats, this should give you an idea who might be joining SNP and Liebour in the 2016 Scottish election. Another reason to find out what currency you will have and just maybe you will be saved from the folly of the EU.

[David48]

Just a quick question.

Is there any reason, any reason at all, that people who aren't Scottish or U.K. nationals (or people obsessed with the movie Braveheart ) should care about the result of this election either way?

I can't think of one.

That said, I am curious to see the results in a sporting kind of way.

I think I want them to split ... that's the more dramatic result in that sense.

JT, it does have wider Financial Considerations.

An Australian Bank owns a fair slice of the Scottish Banking Sector, along with having Australian operations.

Accordingly, it's share price is currently on a downward direction.

Add to that, Global Exchanges rates.

The decision ... the indecision does have wider implications.

.

[phuketjock]

Unfortunately Mr and Mrs Scot or immigrant don't understand anything about their future countries finances. For sure most will say ,"Hey, we are tough guys and gals" but the sad thing is they have not been told possible repercussions. I have read sooooo much crap from a canvasing YES guy I shake my head in disbelief, not a single word of might go wrong or negative stuff to be prepared for.

Blind leading the blind with absolutely no concrete evidence on anything........

Usual unsubstantiated nonsense from you then what's new?

[jpinx]

Unfortunately Mr and Mrs Scot or immigrant don't understand anything about their future countries finances. For sure most will say ,"Hey, we are tough guys and gals" but the sad thing is they have not been told possible repercussions. I have read sooooo much crap from a canvasing YES guy I shake my head in disbelief, not a single word of might go wrong or negative stuff to be prepared for.

Blind leading the blind with absolutely no concrete evidence on anything........

Usual unsubstantiated nonsense from you then what's new?

I've been out today and now look quickly back over todays posts but I see no progress. It seems that everyone has their position and will not move an inch or concede a single point - even when presented with the most obvious facts, so I'll not waste my breath further except to say that I wish Scotland and UK all the very best. I am grateful for the few posters who made cohesive arguments from both sides -- I am very sorry you were drowned in the noise of empty vessels.

[dabhand]

Finally sussed why the polls have swung around since the early days.

Being asked the question - 'Have you decided which way you are voting?'

Early on, most people had not made up their mind - so they said 'No'.

Now, as most have decided what they are voting - they say 'Yes'

Simple or not?

[smokie36]

Unfortunately Mr and Mrs Scot or immigrant don't understand anything about their future countries finances. For sure most will say ,"Hey, we are tough guys and gals" but the sad thing is they have not been told possible repercussions. I have read sooooo much crap from a canvasing YES guy I shake my head in disbelief, not a single word of might go wrong or negative stuff to be prepared for.

Blind leading the blind with absolutely no concrete evidence on anything........

Unlike the UK which hmmm.....lurches from one disaster to the next and is....how many trillion is it in debt transam?

[transam]

Unfortunately Mr and Mrs Scot or immigrant don't understand anything about their future countries finances. For sure most will say ,"Hey, we are tough guys and gals" but the sad thing is they have not been told possible repercussions. I have read sooooo much crap from a canvasing YES guy I shake my head in disbelief, not a single word of might go wrong or negative stuff to be prepared for.

Blind leading the blind with absolutely no concrete evidence on anything........

Unlike the UK which hmmm.....lurches from one disaster to the next and is....how many trillion is it in debt transam?

Very simple answer, governments voted in by England, Scotland, Wales and N.I.

Or are you going to say Scotland didn't vote. ?

[BKK Blues Brother]

Scotland should never have been given the opportunity to vote.

Rubbish and a fanatical viewpoint.

Every Nation has a right to self determination.

If Scotland collectively decides that it is better out of the Union ... so be it.

Fiscally, I don't see it that way ... but I'll support them 100% for their right to decide for themselves.

.

So 8% of the UK population should vote on something that has an massive impact on 100% of the population.

Smacks of more than favouritism

Rubbish and a fanatical viewpoint... is sat in front of a computer 24/7

Edited September 10, 2014 by BKK Blues Brother

[partington]

Just a quick question.

Is there any reason, any reason at all, that people who aren't Scottish or U.K. nationals (or people obsessed with the movie Braveheart:whistling: ) should care about the result of this election either way?

I can't think of one.

That said, I am curious to see the results in a sporting kind of way.

I think I want them to split ... that's the more dramatic result in that sense.

I'm from the UK - English- and I don't care at all one way or the other. I can't be the only one!

[Jingthing]

I wonder if yes wins whether that will fire up the Frenchie separatists in Quebec?

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[BKK Blues Brother]

A yes camp voter switches over to No...

This is why...

In short, everything that has happened in Europe since 2009 or so has demonstrated that sharing a currency without sharing a government is very dangerous. In economics jargon, fiscal and banking integration are essential elements of an optimum currency area. And an independent Scotland using Britain’s pound would be in even worse shape than euro countries, which at least have some say in how the European Central Bank is run.

I find it mind-boggling that Scotland would consider going down this path after all that has happened in the last few years. If Scottish voters really believe that it’s safe to become a country without a currency, they have been badly misled.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/09/08/opinion/paul-krugman-scots-what-the-heck.html?_r=1

Any chance of an answer by a blinkered flag waver?

Dealing a sizeable blow to pro-independence campaigners, Mark Carney, Governor of the Bank of England, has said that “a currency union is incompatible with sovereignty”.

Speaking at the TUC Congress in Liverpool, Mr Carney made clear that an independent Scotland would fail to meet the criteria of a successful currency union.

A proper union would require free trade, banking union, and a fiscal backstop, he said.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/bank-of-england/11084339/Mark-Carney-Currency-union-is-incompatible-with-Scottish-independence.html

Any chance of an answer by a blinkered flag waver?

Salmond's campaign seems to be about winning a 'YES' vote, and worrying about the details later.

Edited September 10, 2014 by Scott
Reply moved out of the quote

[loppylugs1]

The English politicians there now in scotland want to get the hell out of it,they certainly do not speak for me or I suspect the majority of English.

Standard Life announced today they are pulling out of scotland with 6000 jobs going south if a Yes vote, likewise Lloyd's probably upwards of civil servant 200,000 jobs,BAE systems will reverse and go back to Portsmouth,that Grangemouth refinery would shut up shop with no grants. It is all in England's favour,let the scoths go to hell

[smokie36]

The English politicians there now in scotland want to get the hell out of it,they certainly do not speak for me or I suspect the majority of English.

Standard Life announced today they are pulling out of scotland with 6000 jobs going south if a Yes vote, likewise Lloyd's probably upwards of civil servant 200,000 jobs,BAE systems will reverse and go back to Portsmouth,that Grangemouth refinery would shut up shop with no grants. It is all in England's favour,let the scoths go to hell

We're glad they are here to help the YES campaign.

[loppylugs1]

The English politicians there now in scotland want to get the hell out of it,they certainly do not speak for me or I suspect the majority of English.

Standard Life announced today they are pulling out of scotland with 6000 jobs going south if a Yes vote, likewise Lloyd's probably upwards of civil servant 200,000 jobs,BAE systems will reverse and go back to Portsmouth,that Grangemouth refinery would shut up shop with no grants. It is all in England's favour,let the scoths go to hell

We're glad they are here to help the YES campaign.

Yeah right Cameron knows he is hated there,think there certainly is a motive behind all this. All will be revealed ,yes labour out of existence in England if it all goes according to plan

[pitrevie]

Now Rupert Murdoch is going to throw his weight behind the YES campaign. First Farage and now Salmond I guess he is still peeved that Cameron couldn't arrange BSkyB for him.