Difficulty to translate

[alyx]

Hey I am trying to write a will and need to translate "one and only" or "sole"

A translation has been returned to me but from what I have been read, it is wrong ( I can decipher letters not read sorry )

Can anyone have a look at it and change the wording please?

อาศัยอยู่ที่เดียวกับที่แอดเดรส,ของฉันเป็นหนึ่งและเป็นทายาทเท่านั้น

residing at the same address, as my sole and only heir

Thank you

[alyx]

Wow, 77 hits and nobody cares to answer

Maybe it is too simple a question or not enough controversial

If I put this basic question here, it is because I have had a couple of distinct translations from Thai people and thought that a straight, unique, version would come from you

Obviously I was wrong

I will try and find some, willing, physical entities to help me out with that

[AyG]

Wow, 77 hits and nobody cares to answer

Translating for use in a legal document is not a trivial matter.

I'd suggest stop being a cheapskate and pay for a bilingual lawyer to do the job properly for you. Well worth it in the long run (when we're all dead, anyway).

[Mole]

People are doing this GRATIS.

And with such reply, it'll even less likely anyone will care.

Ditto what AyG said.

If you want something done promptly, then PAY FOR IT.

FYI, that google translated Thai is totally useless and almost incomprehensible without the English.

I was actually just about to write it correctly for you, but then I saw your reply and decided to find something more productive to do instead.

Edited September 8, 2014 by Mole

[alyx]

People are doing this GRATIS.

And with such reply, it'll even less likely anyone will care.

Ditto what AyG said.

If you want something done promptly, then PAY FOR IT.

FYI, that google translated Thai is totally useless and almost incomprehensible without the English.

I was actually just about to write it correctly for you, but then I saw your reply and decided to find something more productive to do instead.

My goodness, I love people with ethics

[alyx]

Wow, 77 hits and nobody cares to answer

Translating for use in a legal document is not a trivial matter.

I'd suggest stop being a cheapskate and pay for a bilingual lawyer to do the job properly for you. Well worth it in the long run (when we're all dead, anyway).

Why am I not surprised?

1) I have paid for the text to be translated already, and what I have been read to, is definitely not the intended meaning

2) oh , and you are right, useful in the long run....well, that, you cannot know but, actually that is the last sentence of my spouse's will who has died.

I didn't want to give this kind of details, and decided to ask advice about the translation only.

This is a language forum, meaning that people who, supposedly, are at ease with Thai language, have had a look and out of 77 no one cared to answer

Free?, who cares

Edited September 8, 2014 by alyx

[alyx]

Wow, 77 hits and nobody cares to answer

Translating for use in a legal document is not a trivial matter.

I'd suggest stop being a cheapskate and pay for a bilingual lawyer to do the job properly for you. Well worth it in the long run (when we're all dead, anyway).

By the way, isn't cheapskate an offensive term ?

Edited September 8, 2014 by alyx

[Tim207]

Wow, 77 hits and nobody cares to answer

Translating for use in a legal document is not a trivial matter.

I'd suggest stop being a cheapskate and pay for a bilingual lawyer to do the job properly for you. Well worth it in the long run (when we're all dead, anyway).

By the way, isn't cheapskate an offensive term ?

LOL, why yes I believe it is. FYI, many if not most of us who view topics in the language section are here to LEARN. Would you like all those 77 people to give you answers regardless of whether they feel they are qualified to give the proper answer or not? Now that your attitude seems to have annoyed some of those that could give you a qualified answer, I guess you will need to try another avenue to get your question answered.

[alyx]

555

Thank you for enlightening me: this isn't the only way to get an answer?

If I understand you ( if I can, that is ) offensive terms are a must ( well, different standards here )...I hope you do not address your maid / driver in that manner, they might resent it

Don't you feel ridiculously pompous / pretentious ? ( I am confident you know how to say that in Thai , otherwise you may post it here )

I am distraught at the thought that your community has ostracised the ugly duck

Edited September 11, 2014 by alyx

[tgeezer]

555

Thank you for enlightening me: this isn't the only way to get an answer?

If I understand you ( if I can, that is ) offensive terms are a must ( well, different standards here )...I hope you do not address your maid / driver in that manner, they might resent it

Don't you feel ridiculously pompous / pretentious ? ( I am confident you know how to say that in Thai , otherwise you may post it here )

I am distraught at the thought that your community has ostracised the ugly duck

I would be interested in returning to translation.

Is that อาศัยอยู่ที่เดียวกับที่แอดเดรส,ของฉันเป็นหนึ่งและเป็นทายาทเท่านั้น

residing at the same address, as my sole and only heir.

Do you take issue with the English translation? This is the first time that I have seen this thread but your first post seemed to say that you wanted the English translated into Thai.

I don't think that it is my limited knowledge of Thai which makes it difficult to translate, it appears to be a mishmash of Thai and English. I feel sure that such language would be invalid and not pass probate.

We can all attempt to parse the Thai if that would help but I don't think it would make sense.

Perhaps Mole can help as a favour to the forum.

[alyx]

Thank you for the reply

Actually it is the translation from another language to English

I had that translated into Thai. I have asked a Thai neighbour to read it to me but it sounded all wrong, it is when I decided to post here.

Since, I have asked someone else to translate and I have got something which seems to be correct

This is my testament, written by my hand at


I, name , childless, born on date, place, residing address, name my spouse, Name, born on date, place , residing at the same address, as my sole universal heir.


Done at

ข้าพเจ้าเขียนพินัยกรรมฉบับนี้ด้วยลายมือของข้าพเจ้าที่ ประเทศไทย

ข้าพเจ้า Name ไม่มีบุตร เกิดวันที่ Date Place ในจังหวัดสมุทรปราการ พำนักอยู่ที่ Address คู่สมรสของข้าพเจ้าชื่อ อแลง name, date ที่เมืองมาเซลส์ พำนักในที่อยู่เดียวกันในฐานะเป็นทายาทของข้าพเจ้าแต่ผู้เดียว

Actually I had problems with "sole universal heir" whereas, in the first translation I think I fouls understand "first heir"

If you cannot figure it out I will have it translated from Thai to English at another office, but thanks anyway








[tgeezer]

Thank you for the reply

Actually it is the translation from another language to English

I had that translated into Thai. I have asked a Thai neighbour to read it to me but it sounded all wrong, it is when I decided to post here.

Since, I have asked someone else to translate and I have got something which seems to be correct

This is my testament, written by my hand at


I, name , childless, born on date, place, residing address, name my spouse, Name, born on date, place , residing at the same address, as my sole universal heir.


Done at

ข้าพเจ้าเขียนพินัยกรรมฉบับนี้ด้วยลายมือของข้าพเจ้าที่ ประเทศไทย

ข้าพเจ้า Name ไม่มีบุตร เกิดวันที่ Date Place ในจังหวัดสมุทรปราการ พำนักอยู่ที่ Address คู่สมรสของข้าพเจ้าชื่อ อแลง name, date ที่เมืองมาเซลส์ พำนักในที่อยู่เดียวกันในฐานะเป็นทายาทของข้าพเจ้าแต่ผู้เดียว

Actually I had problems with "sole universal heir" whereas, in the first translation I think I fouls understand "first heir"

If you cannot figure it out I will have it translated from Thai to English at another office, but thanks anyway








I have just looked at a will I have and it is long, listing all real estate and personal possessions. I think that it is important for a foreigner to have a watertight will so I would advise you to have the testator see a lawyer with a view to making a legally uncontestable will.

Your post prompted me to dig out this will where I see that I am left a car which was sold ten years ago!

[AyG]

This is my testament, written by my hand at

That immediately suggests you are writing an holographic will. There is absolutely no need for it to be in Thai. (Your executor will secure a Thai translation.) In fact, if you write it in Thai when you are clearly so utterly clueless about the Thai language, then it will be wide open to challenge.

[tgeezer]

I have just reread the thread. The will is in a third language which has been translated into English and now for reasons of your own it is necessary for you to have it in Thai, is that correct?

The translation which you got without our help is understandable to me, legal language obviously would only confuse the issue, (no pun intended).

I am not sure that 'childless' should be in the testator a title, I would put that as a circumstance relevant to the bequest. .... "being childless leave all my wordly goods.... " but it is understandable; maybe it is very Thai.

[SlyAnimal]

Please no personal insults

The members who post in this section are primarily people interested in learning Thai, and aren't qualified or confident enough to give you an answer on such an important topic as a will.

If asked for the "legal phrase" in English, I think many would even rather wait for someone else to answer, rather than answer themselves (Unless of course they had experience in legal documents/wills).

A general translation is certainly doable for most, as many will do it for fun, to use/test their Thai. But l know that I most certainly wouldn't presume to think my Thai was good enough to translate a legal document. I'd maybe give it a shot for my own use, by certainly not for anyone else's, as I wouldn't want to be responsible for that person's legal problems due to a bad translation. Better to just wait for someone who can give a more accurate translation.

Mole is the best regular contributor for this type of query, as he's Thai. However your response seems to have put a halt to any joy on that front.

There might be a few other Thai members browsing this section, or our Farang members might be able to get their wives to assist you, but a professional translation would be best as it's going to likely require specific legal jargon and the difference between spoken Thai and formal Thai is incredibly vast, I'd imagine the transition to legal jargon is even more onerous.

[rgs2001uk]

^^^^^^, SA you are talking about the Thai language and legal system.

There are many Thais who have no understanding of the Thai legal code, heck I even know Thais who are illiterate.

Asking a Thai neighbour to translate means nothing.

Trying to translate from a third language to English then to Thai is probably almost impossible, different countries, different legal codes etc etc.

My best advice for the OP head to your embassay and ask them to recommend a lawyer or translator who is able to provide the service you require.

For the OP, head here,

http://www.tilleke.com/

[rgs2001uk]

I have just reread the thread. The will is in a third language which has been translated into English and now for reasons of your own it is necessary for you to have it in Thai, is that correct?

The translation which you got without our help is understandable to me, legal language obviously would only confuse the issue, (no pun intended).

I am not sure that 'childless' should be in the testator a title, I would put that as a circumstance relevant to the bequest. .... "being childless leave all my wordly goods.... " but it is understandable; maybe it is very Thai.

Being childless is totally irrelevant to a Thai will, but as I mentioned earlier, this is what happens when you think Thailand and your home country have the same legal system.

[alyx]

Thank you for the replies

I guess that apologies are in order: I realise that my opening post is, if not misleading, kind of confusing as I didn't deem appropriate, nor necessary to disclose some details.

My question was quite simple: check whether a couple of words were correctly translated, hence my surprise before the lack of acknowledgement.

What I considered disinterest/indifference was, in fact a very honourable stand: no answers unless you are certain to understand and give the correct one.

Allow me to try and explain:

This is the established will of my Thai spouse who passed away, a couple of months ago.

The will is in English and another language.

.

We had a certain amount of money and we wanted to make sure that, upon either death, this would stay with the surviving spouse.

We have never had any problems with the in laws, and right now everything is fine, but nowadays money can so easily ignites a dispute that I wanted this translation at hands, just in case.

You know what happened next: I had it translated, then read back to me but.it didn't sound right.

As the time and situation don't point at the need for a lawyer I naturally called upon unbiased readers/translators.

I am not asking anyone to do a legal proof translation of the terms ( mind you, if you feel up to it....lol), as this is not (yet) a life threatening situation.

I hope that my explanation is limpid

Thanks

Edited September 12, 2014 by alyx

[tgeezer]

I have just reread the thread. The will is in a third language which has been translated into English and now for reasons of your own it is necessary for you to have it in Thai, is that correct?

The translation which you got without our help is understandable to me, legal language obviously would only confuse the issue, (no pun intended).

I am not sure that 'childless' should be in the testator a title, I would put that as a circumstance relevant to the bequest. .... "being childless leave all my wordly goods.... " but it is understandable; maybe it is very Thai.

Being childless is totally irrelevant to a Thai will, but as I mentioned earlier, this is what happens when you think Thailand and your home country have the same legal system.

I assumed that the Thai legal system is modelled on the English system and being English, my home country's system.

You can explain a bequest if you like to.

[Ohng]

Thank you for the reply

Actually it is the translation from another language to English

I had that translated into Thai. I have asked a Thai neighbour to read it to me but it sounded all wrong, it is when I decided to post here.

Since, I have asked someone else to translate and I have got something which seems to be correct

This is my testament, written by my hand at


I, name , childless, born on date, place, residing address, name my spouse, Name, born on date, place , residing at the same address, as my sole universal heir.


Done at

ข้าพเจ้าเขียนพินัยกรรมฉบับนี้ด้วยลายมือของข้าพเจ้าที่ ประเทศไทย

ข้าพเจ้า Name ไม่มีบุตร เกิดวันที่ Date Place ในจังหวัดสมุทรปราการ พำนักอยู่ที่ Address คู่สมรสของข้าพเจ้าชื่อ อแลง name, date ที่เมืองมาเซลส์ พำนักในที่อยู่เดียวกันในฐานะเป็นทายาทของข้าพเจ้าแต่ผู้เดียว

Actually I had problems with "sole universal heir" whereas, in the first translation I think I fouls understand "first heir"

If you cannot figure it out I will have it translated from Thai to English at another office, but thanks anyway








ข้าพเจ้าเขียนพินัยกรรมฉบับนี้ด้วยลายมือของข้าพเจ้าเอง ณ ประเทศไทย

ข้าพเจ้านาย/นาง Name ไม่มีบุตรธิดา เกิดวันที่ Date Place ในจังหวัดสมุทรปราการ อาศัยอยู่ที่ Address คู่สมรสของข้าพเจ้าชื่อ อแลง name, date ที่เมืองมาเซลส์ อาศัยอยู่ที่เดียวกันกับข้าพเจ้า มีฐานะเป็นผู้สืบทอดมรดกของข้าพเจ้าแต่เพียงผู้เดียว

Edited September 14, 2014 by Ohng

[alyx]

Tanks à lot

[Mole]

All I can add is that the translation Ohng wrote isn't entirely correct at the beginning. (ธิดา) The rest seems fine, although more text needs to be added in order to specify that the "date" is your wife's date of birth and not just some unknown date, because the current text above would not explain what the "date" after your wife's name is.

Oh, more info probably also needs to be added in order to specify exactly whose "residing at the same address" is. Currently the Thai text just say "residing at the same address" but it doesn't say same address with whom.

I would also suggest you rearrange so that your date of birth comes right after your name, then that you're childless, otherwise it would look as if the date of birth belongs to your non existent child. In Thai language, since there's no grammar like English, order of words is the most important and can potentially change a sentence's meaning completely.

You're better off hireling a solicitor/lawyer who will be able to arrange this to you in proper manner. I also believe these kind of legal document may require it to be written in certain specific way as it's usual for many types of Thai documents.

Edited September 16, 2014 by Mole

[alyx]

Thanks for the constructive and detailed answer

As I have posted earlier, this is the will of my passed away spouse

I just needed a translation to show my in laws, if any point was to be disputed ( better ready than sorry )

This is why I was insisting on translating the final two words

Of course if a dispute should occur, which I sincerely doubt, I would contact a lawyer and have the document translated officially

Thanks again for your help and understanding

[Ohng]

บุตรธิดา means children [son and daughter]

if you only write "บุตร", it can also be translated into only "son" and one can says that you still have ธิดา [daughter]

so, it is better write "บุตรธิดา" than writing just only "บุตร" since it is ambiguous word.

[Mole]

บุตร is a gender neutral word which means "offspring".

บุตรธิดา however will explicitly mean "daughter". (literal: female offspring)

In the above case, writing just บุตร is correct, while if writing บุตรธิดา will mean "no daughters".

For the record, บุตรชาย will explicitly mean "son". (literal: male offspring)

[Richard W]

บุตร is a gender neutral word which means "offspring".

Why does the RID give its meaning as "ลูก, ลูกชาย"? It seems rather that it needs to be disambiguated.

บุตรธิดา however will explicitly mean "daughter". (literal: female offspring)

In the above case, writing just บุตร is correct, while if writing บุตรธิดา will mean "no daughters".

Ouch! I've got a Thai-English dictionary that translates บุตรธิดา as "children, sons and daughters".

Is it acceptable to switch register and use clearly gender-neutral ลูก instead?

Edited September 20, 2014 by Richard W

[Mole]

No, for official documents, the correct terminology is บุตร or บุตรธิดา.

ลูก is colloquial use.

It appears I was wrong regarding บุตรธิดา. Must have mixed its meaning with บุตรสาว.

Edited September 21, 2014 by Mole

[Ohng]

I still insist that บุตรธิดา or บุตร-ธิดา or บุตรหรือธิดา are more precisely.

Yes, บุตร can means daughter since men and women are equal these days.

Other example words: ทายาท ทายาทผู้สืบสกุล ทายาทผู้สืบสันติวงศ์ were meant to used only for men but it is widely used for both gender now.

We can use พจนานุกรมฉบับราชบัณฑิตยสถาน to lookup the word that we are not sure since it's once used in the court to judge the former prime minister.

http://rirs3.royin.go.th/dictionary.asp

บุตร, บุตร- [บุด, บุดตฺระ-] น. ลูก, ลูกชาย. (ส. ปุตฺร; ป. ปุตฺต).

By the way, บุตรี ธิดา บุตรสาว ลูกสาว are used only for the daughter.

[Richard W]

Yes, บุตร can means daughter since men and women are equal these days.

Do you really mean 'daughter', and not 'child'? Equality would result in it meaning 'son or daughter'. Another way of asking my question is, 'Do you really mean 'mean' and not 'include'?'.