Child with my wife - Dual nationality.?

[Sena Dave]

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Thanks for that , I have just mailed a .Gov line asking the question again , I did marry the mother 6 months later and we lived in the Uk for only 1 year before i returned to asai to work. My daughter was born there and has indefinite right to abode in the UK. I'll have a read through of that piece , thanks again

Happy to have brought useful info, as you keep reading you will also see the good news about an impending change to the law that will eliminate the discrimination even for unmarried fathers.

Paz , I posted on that site you gave the link for , they said because i married after the birth I can get a passport for him. I know from past experience of divorce and child custody its going to be a long road , but I'm going to go after it now, Thanks once agian

[hotsoup]

A 'Thai' child is Thai regardless of where he/she was born. That presupposes the mother/father has an ID card. Your

name should be on the birth certificate. It is well nigh impossible to renounce Thai citizenship.if your wife has a Tabian Ban and the child's name is on it. As I understand it, there is no longer any 'requirement' at present to choose a nationality at any age.

A child should have a Thai Passport.Both you and the mother would need to go together to apply for that. There is some confusion as to whether a child needs both a birth certificate + a Tabian Ban to apply. It makes life simpler.

If you are a British citizen, born in the UK, then the child is British and can acquire a UK passport. If a child is born in Thailand, you would need to register the birth with the Embassy and they will then provide a UK birth certificate.

It is true that if your child is born outside the UK then your grand children will not be British unless they are born in the UK

Edited September 11, 2014 by hotsoup

[Canada]

Not sure how relevant it is but I am researching this subject now, being a new father in Thailand. My daughter is entitled to Canadian citizenship regardless of where she is born. First step in getting a passport is to obtain a certificate of citizenship for her from Canada. Then it is a simple process. I pass this right to her wherever she is born because I was born in Canada. She will do the same for her children if they are born in Canada. If they are not born in Canada, they will have no right to citizenship in Canada.

[IMA_FARANG]

As you are the father and your Thai wife is the mother the Child automatically can get Dual citizenship.

The chils is a Thai by virtue of having one parent that is Thai, and British by one parent That is British ...... you.

I highly recommend that you take the time an trouble to register your child as British with the U.K. embassy as soon as you can.

This may not mean a lot now, but your child may find it very beneficial later when he or she gets older.

There is no longer a law in Thailand that your child must declare his or her nationality at any time.

However, he or she, MAY chose to declare or renounce their Thai citizenship later voluntarily later on after they reach the required age. (when they are no longer a minor and therefore can legally make the choice)

But, understand that this is a VOLUNTARY choice they can make if they wish to at that time, it is not REQUIRED.

Generally, it is best to retain dual citizenship.

As your wife is Thai, have her get the child a Thai passport. Later the child can enter and exit Thailand as a Thai, no visa required.

Also you should apply for a U.K. passport for your child, so he or she will be able to enter the U.K. on their British passport,

If it is a son, you should understand that he will be required to be available to be drafted as any Thai male is. All Thai males have to face that possibility. but not females.

In general, it is best to use the passport of country that suits the circumstances of a dual citizen to enter that country, use the child's Thai passport to enter Thailand, and their British passport if entering the U.K.

Thai citizens require no visa to enter Thailand.

I'm not sure about the British embassy, you will almost certainly need proof he is your child by marriage at the least to get him registered as a U.K. national.

Edited September 11, 2014 by IMA_FARANG

[Sena Dave]

I've just looked at for MNI, Application for child under 18 as British citizen document. I need Translated and Notarized copy of Thai Birth cert and my divorce and custody papers apparently. If you are married then you need your wife's signature

[Sena Dave]

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/318563/Form_MN1_June_2014.pdf

[paz]

Paz , I posted on that site you gave the link for , they said because i married after the birth I can get a passport for him. I know from past experience of divorce and child custody its going to be a long road , but I'm going to go after it now, Thanks once agian

So, you had married the mother after your son was born, but eventually divorced and now have custody ? I think that should not make any difference.

Citizenship laws are incredibly different among countries, and often very complicated, like the British one.

[Sena Dave]

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Paz , I posted on that site you gave the link for , they said because i married after the birth I can get a passport for him. I know from past experience of divorce and child custody its going to be a long road , but I'm going to go after it now, Thanks once agian

So, you had married the mother after your son was born, but eventually divorced and now have custody ? I think that should not make any difference.

Citizenship laws are incredibly different among countries, and often very complicated, like the British one.

Yes it was like that, when you say "shouldn't make a difference ", do you mean in a good way , as in I should get one for him

? Ive been chasing my tail all day trying to get more info , I think I'm home with it. I Emailed a UK Immigration lawyer and he also said that it could be a human rights issue if they do not. I do not want to live in the UK , I just want my boy to be able to can come and go when he is older , like my daughter can

[paz]

Yes it was like that, when you say "shouldn't make a difference ", do you mean in a good way , as in I should get one for him

? Ive been chasing my tail all day trying to get more info , I think I'm home with it. I Emailed a UK Immigration lawyer and he also said that it could be a human rights issue if they do not. I do not want to live in the UK , I just want my boy to be able to can come and go when he is older , like my daughter can

I'm no expert and no lawyer but I really think you will get citizenship for your son. There is a lot more about having a passport than just come and go, and that is about entire Europe.

[Sena Dave]

The bloke from that site you put up Emailed me back in about 2 minutes and said they changed the law and you didn't have to be married at the time of birth, as long as you married the mother the boy was eligible for a passport, You can register for British citizenship up to 18y/o. He did mention that some Embassy's get a bit snooty without the mothers signature, but my legal custody ruling should put pay to that. When i spoke to UKIS , UK immigration services (Lawyer) the said if I get any grief they will ping them with the Human Rights act. Been a busy day mate, but worth it

[sburdic]

My oldest son was born in Thailand at 5th field hospital off Sukumviet Road near soi 64. I was I diet cook at the hospital back in 1970. We have not gotten his dual citizen ship. But from what I understand all we need to do is bing him to Thailand with his birth certificate and do the paperwork. I need to do this so that his name will be on the house book for later when are gone. By the way, What is the law dealing with property. My wife being thai, and a dual citizen of Thailand and USA, if she dies before me, how long do I have to sell the house and land, or if due to my age they will let me keep it, live in it until I die? I could sell it so low a price, then buy a condo.

That's pretty cool Danel! I was born at 5th field back in '70 too while my dad was serving. My mother and father never registered me with the amphur before we had to leave for the US shortly after I was born so, no Thai birth certificate.

39 years later, after deciding I wanted to claim citizenship my mother helped me to get it. Since I was born in Thailand, but had no documentation, my mother and I had to take a DNA test at RTP HQ to prove we were related. After the blood test everything went smoothly, but still took a while. Let me know if you need any other details. Maybe your son's case is a little similar to mine.

[Sena Dave]

Update if anyone is interested UKIS UK Immigration Service came back yesterday and said my boy has a right to citizenship through descent, They then kindly offered to sort it all out for me for a Grand Sterling, not much of a "Service" then.

I have the form filled out , his birth cert, translated to English and verified, my divorce and custody papers, so I,m going to the embassy on Tuesday , I'm not banking on instant success, but after 13 years the ball has started to roll

[Richard W]

If a child is born in Thailand, you would need to register the birth with the Embassy and they will then provide a UK birth certificate.

Strictly speaking you don't need to. However, if when grown up the child did not have the privilege to have a British passport that was clearly his (try using a baby passport 20 years later!), the birth certificate can be used in the UK like a British birth certificate to demonstrate permission to be employed or rent accommodation. (Other documents would also be needed.)

[paz]

Update if anyone is interested UKIS UK Immigration Service came back yesterday and said my boy has a right to citizenship through descent, They then kindly offered to sort it all out for me for a Grand Sterling, not much of a "Service" then.

1,000 GBP to recognize a natural right? I understand some documents and the ceremony have a cost, but I wasn't thinking that much.

[Sena Dave]

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Update if anyone is interested UKIS UK Immigration Service came back yesterday and said my boy has a right to citizenship through descent, They then kindly offered to sort it all out for me for a Grand Sterling, not much of a "Service" then.

1,000 GBP to recognize a natural right? I understand some documents and the ceremony have a cost, but I wasn't thinking that much.

They have it sewn up , I clarified the charges today . The Home office charge SIX HUNDRED and SIXTY NINE pounds to register a child as a British citizen, and I checked that on their site , link below, The UKIS want a grand to do it and will get his passport as well . When I go back to Penang on Monday I'll look into it and see how difficult it is to do myself, no dealings with the embassy apparently straight to Home office

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/301380/Master_Fees_Leaflet_Apr_2014.pdf

[Richard W]

Thanks for that , I have just mailed a .Gov line asking the question again , I did marry the mother 6 months later and we lived in the Uk for only 1 year before i returned to asai to work. My daughter was born there and has indefinite right to abode in the UK. I'll have a read through of that piece , thanks again

They have it sewn up , I clarified the charges today . The Home office charge SIX HUNDRED and SIXTY NINE pounds to register a child as a British citizen, and I checked that on their site , link below, The UKIS want a grand to do it and will get his passport as well . When I go back to Penang on Monday I'll look into it and see how difficult it is to do myself, no dealings with the embassy apparently straight to Home office

Dear Sena Dave, what you are saying makes no sense. We need some facts about your history to check the situation. My understanding, based on surmise, are the following:

1. Your 'son' and 'daughter' are, so far as the outside world knows, biologically yours.

2. You have been a British citizen since you were born, or you were naturalised as British before your son was born and have remained British since then.

3. When your son was born, neither you nor his mother was married to anyone else. (This may not be relevant - it is a confusing issue.)

4. When your son was born, your domicile (i.e. long-time home) was either Britain or Thailand.

5. You married his mother after you were born.

6. Your daughter was born in the UK while you and her mother were married.

7. Neither your son nor daughter has renounced British nationality, and neither has been deprived of British nationality. (Their deprivation should be impossible, but I mention it for completeness.)

Given these facts, your son has been British since at least when you married his mother, and your daughter has always been British. You do not need to register either as British. The best way of establishing that they are British is to apply for British passports for them.

I am confused by the statement that your daughter has 'indefinite right of abode' in her passport. If she has a Thai passport, it might have been endorsed to record 'indefinite leave to remain' in the UK, and her Thai passport might have been endorsed with 'right of abode' simply because she is British.

Technically, 'leave to remain' is meaningless if she is a British citizenship. If she has been outside the UK for more than two years, it will have lapsed, though it might be possible to revive it by applying for a visa as a 'returning resident'.

If she has 'right of abode' [in the UK] endorsed on her current Thai passport, that may stop her getting a British passport - policy is not to allow someone to concurrently hold a foreign passport endorsed with 'right of abode' as well as a British passport.

[paz]

Given these facts, your son has been British since at least when you married his mother, and your daughter has always been British. You do not need to register either as British. The best way of establishing that they are British is to apply for British passports for them.

This page

https://www.gov.uk/register-a-birth

says the same. But if I was Dave I would do the registration anyway, So that the children would (in case of any unforeseeable occurrence) be able to always obtain their British birth record certificates, either in the UK, or in Thailand.

Edited September 13, 2014 by paz

[Richard W]

Given these facts, your son has been British since at least when you married his mother, and your daughter has always been British. You do not need to register either as British. The best way of establishing that they are British is to apply for British passports for them.

This page

https://www.gov.uk/register-a-birth

says the same. But if I was Dave I would do the registration anyway, So that the children would (in case of any unforeseeable occurrence) be able to always obtain their British birth record certificates, either in the UK, or in Thailand.

These are two different types of registration. The first type of registration makes someone who is not a British citizen, but has a very close connection with Britain, into a British citizen. The second merely records the birth overseas of a British citizen.

There used to be a connection between registering a birth overseas and passing on British citizenship, but this connection has been broken.

Edited September 13, 2014 by Richard W

[paz]

These are two different types of registration. The first type of registration makes someone who is not a British citizenship, but has a very close connection with Britain, into a British citizen. The second merely records the birth overseas of a British citizen.

There used to be a connection between registering a birth overseas and passing on British citizenship, but this connection has been broken.

Seems good, the .gov website says registration for child born abroad is 'only' 105 gbp plus 22 return postage. Requirement is to be born after 1/6/2006.

[Richard W]

2. You have been a British citizen since you were born, or you were naturalised as British before your son was born and have remained British since then.

Correction:

2. You have been a British citizen since you were born in the UK, or you were naturalised as British before your son was born and have remained British since then.

[FarangWorld]

The thing is though (this post is important if you have a son) do you really want your son to have Thai citizenship when he's born?

Both of my parents are Thai, but I was born and raised in London. I also ended up having only a British passport. I asked my mother why she didn't make me a Thai citizen, her reply was "I didn't take you to get Thai citizenship because they could still force you to do national service". This was confirmed with a relative who works for the Thai government.

Just something to think about.

Oh and congratulations!

[Sena Dave]

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Thanks for that , I have just mailed a .Gov line asking the question again , I did marry the mother 6 months later and we lived in the Uk for only 1 year before i returned to asai to work. My daughter was born there and has indefinite right to abode in the UK. I'll have a read through of that piece , thanks again

They have it sewn up , I clarified the charges today . The Home office charge SIX HUNDRED and SIXTY NINE pounds to register a child as a British citizen, and I checked that on their site , link below, The UKIS want a grand to do it and will get his passport as well . When I go back to Penang on Monday I'll look into it and see how difficult it is to do myself, no dealings with the embassy apparently straight to Home office

Dear Sena Dave, what you are saying makes no sense. We need some facts about your history to check the situation. My understanding, based on surmise, are the following:

1. Your 'son' and 'daughter' are, so far as the outside world knows, biologically yours.
2. You have been a British citizen since you were born, or you were naturalised as British before your son was born and have remained British since then.
3. When your son was born, neither you nor his mother was married to anyone else. (This may not be relevant - it is a confusing issue.)
4. When your son was born, your domicile (i.e. long-time home) was either Britain or Thailand.
5. You married his mother after you were born.
6. Your daughter was born in the UK while you and her mother were married.
7. Neither your son nor daughter has renounced British nationality, and neither has been deprived of British nationality. (Their deprivation should be impossible, but I mention it for completeness.)

Given these facts, your son has been British since at least when you married his mother, and your daughter has always been British. You do not need to register either as British. The best way of establishing that they are British is to apply for British passports for them.

I am confused by the statement that your daughter has 'indefinite right of abode' in her passport. If she has a Thai passport, it might have been endorsed to record 'indefinite leave to remain' in the UK, and her Thai passport might have been endorsed with 'right of abode' simply because she is British.

Technically, 'leave to remain' is meaningless if she is a British citizenship. If she has been outside the UK for more than two years, it will have lapsed, though it might be possible to revive it by applying for a visa as a 'returning resident'.

If she has 'right of abode' [in the UK] endorsed on her current Thai passport, that may stop her getting a British passport - policy is not to allow someone to concurrently hold a foreign passport endorsed with 'right of abode' as well as a British passport.

Thats 7 yes's to your questions

My daughter has Indefinite right to abode in her passport for the UK , that lasts as long as her Thai passport lasts. Things are a bit messed up with the kids histories document wise, due to my messed up marriage and trying to work and look after a 3 and a 4 year old on my Jack. Half of my kids documents would be with their mother and I have not heard or seen her since 2005, This is going to sound terrible but I cannot remember whether my boy was registered or not at the British embassy. What I did about 3 weeks ago to find out was request a copy of his berth cert online from British Birth deaths marriages site

1 Son Born Mar 01 in Thailand , not married

2 July 01 Married to ,mother of Son

3 May 2002 All live in UK . start indefinite leave to remain for UK Son and Wife

4 Oct 2002 Daughter born in UK

5 Mar 2003 Leave UK to work in Taiwan , do not complete indefinite leave to remain

6 2005 Split with missus

7 2011 , Divorce and full legal custody

I'm in BKK on Tuesday so I may pop into the embassy, I'll have to find out about whether i had to register him to be British or he just is

Thanks Gents

[Chrisbinbkk]

My kids have both thai and British passports and yes its for life... just dont use british passport coming into Thailand!

Neither of them can hand down UK citizenship to their kids as they are Thai by birth...

[Chrisbinbkk]

My kids have both thai and British passports and yes its for life... just dont use british passport coming into Thailand!

Neither of them can hand down UK citizenship to their kids as they are Thai by birth...

And the only major hassle at the British embassy here in Bangkok was the need to have my original British birth certificate. . My father sent me this it was lost in the post (dont ask why I have no idea) so I simply went on the home office website filled out the form and for 50 quid or so I was sent a new original. Pretty easy...

[samran]

The thing is though (this post is important if you have a son) do you really want your son to have Thai citizenship when he's born?

Both of my parents are Thai, but I was born and raised in London. I also ended up having only a British passport. I asked my mother why she didn't make me a Thai citizen, her reply was "I didn't take you to get Thai citizenship because they could still force you to do national service". This was confirmed with a relative who works for the Thai government.

Just something to think about.

Oh and congratulations!

You are already a Thai citizen. Thai law is very clear on the matter. You just don't have a passport, which at the end of the day is just a travel document.

Visits to Thailand using the Thai passport are fine.

Living overseas like you are means you are unable to attend conscription and there isn't a penalty. Once 30 you are automatically exempted though there is a maximum 400 baht fine for reporting late.

[Richard W]

Neither of them can hand down UK citizenship to their kids as they are Thai by birth...

That can be remedied, to varying degrees, by three years residence in the UK at the appropriate time. The downside is that registration is then required to pass British citizenship on.

Odd as it may seem, I can't think of any case where holding Thai citizenship prevents a child of a British citizen from having a right to become British. It might conceivably stop a discretionary registration on the basis of statelessness.

[Richard W]

1 Son Born Mar 01 in Thailand , not married

2 July 01 Married to ,mother of Son

3 May 2002 All live in UK . start indefinite leave to remain for UK Son and Wife

4 Oct 2002 Daughter born in UK

5 Mar 2003 Leave UK to work in Taiwan , do not complete indefinite leave to remain

6 2005 Split with missus

7 2011 , Divorce and full legal custody

I'm in BKK on Tuesday so I may pop into the embassy, I'll have to find out about whether i had to register him to be British or he just is

Your son is British already. To get him a passport, you may have to fill out a special questionnaire to establish your domicile. Domicile has some odd rules and some odd effects. For example, as far as I can tell, the Newcastle-born former prime minister Abhisit Vejjajiva has always been domiciled in Thailand, so any children of his would be British regardless of when they were born or who their mother was. (I know of no rumours that make this anything but a hypothetical observation.)

[Sena Dave]

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1 Son Born Mar 01 in Thailand , not married
2 July 01 Married to ,mother of Son
3 May 2002 All live in UK . start indefinite leave to remain for UK Son and Wife
4 Oct 2002 Daughter born in UK
5 Mar 2003 Leave UK to work in Taiwan , do not complete indefinite leave to remain
6 2005 Split with missus
7 2011 , Divorce and full legal custody

I'm in BKK on Tuesday so I may pop into the embassy, I'll have to find out about whether i had to register him to be British or he just is

Your son is British already. To get him a passport, you may have to fill out a special questionnaire to establish your domicile. Domicile has some odd rules and some odd effects. For example, as far as I can tell, the Newcastle-born former prime minister Abhisit Vejjajiva has always been domiciled in Thailand, so any children of his would be British regardless of when they were born or who their mother was. (I know of no rumours that make this anything but a hypothetical observation.)

Thanks again , I had a consutation with UKIS , they are listed by the Brit embassy as "Preferred" anglo-Thai lawyers

They agree there is no doubt my son can have British citizenship and accompanying passport

However this was not his birth right as he was born in Thailand before I was married on marrying his mother 6 months later he became eligible for Citizenship and Passport.

I now have to register him as a British citizen (Consular birth cert no good for Passports or Citizenship apparently). Its going to cost a few bob , but to where I thought I was with it a week ago , I dont mind paying

[Richard W]

Your son is British already...

Thanks again , I had a consutation with UKIS , they are listed by the Brit embassy as "Preferred" anglo-Thai lawyers

They agree there is no doubt my son can have British citizenship and accompanying passport

However this was not his birth right as he was born in Thailand before I was married on marrying his mother 6 months later he became eligible for Citizenship and Passport.

I now have to register him as a British citizen (Consular birth cert no good for Passports or Citizenship apparently). Its going to cost a few bob , but to where I thought I was with it a week ago , I dont mind paying

How is he not British already? How are you British? If you were born in the UK and have been British since birth, your son became British as soon as you married his mother. Registration as British is for people who are not yet British. You should get him a British passport, but you do not have to pay to register him as British. Indeed, an attempt to register him as British should be refused on the ground that he is already British.

Now, if you had not married his mother, or if you were British by descent, then you would have to register your son as British for him to be British.

[apiwan]

, i got my kids registered as british and all with british passports and i didn't pay £1000