Pink Line electric train project ready for Thai Cabinet review

[webfact]

Pink Line electric train project ready for Cabinet review

BANGKOK, 11 September 2014 (NNT) – The Office of Transport and Traffic Policy and Planning (OTP) has revealed that the construction plan for the Pink Line electric train is awaiting proposal to the Cabinet while the bidding process is expected to take place late this year.

Director of the OTP Peerapol Thawornsuppacharoen stated that the Pink Line electric train, running from Khae Rai to Pak Kret and Min Buri, is one of the Transport Ministry’s projects which are to be presented to the Cabinet for approval in the near future. The new line, stretching 34.5 kilometers, will come in the form of a monorail and will require a budget of about 58.3 billion baht.

The Director explained that, if the green light is given by the Cabinet, the bidding session for the Pink Line will be opened to private firms by the end of this year and the system’s construction design will be conducted by the Mass Rapid Transit Authority of Thailand afterwards. If all goes as planned, the construction and test run processes are expected to take three years before services begin in early 2019.

According to the OTP, the monorail system is capable of transporting 80,000-200,000 passengers daily and its construction is considered easier than that of the dual rail system due to less space required for rail installation and smaller turning radius.


-- NNT 2014-09-11

[airconsult]

It resurfaced again did it? Somebody check the identities of the bidders.

The change to monorail was killed off twice because they are notoriously unreliable and have a very low passenger count per hour. The BTS-style system originally proposed would handle 5 times greater passenger load per hour, and has 10 times the MTBF.

Considering the busiest stop on this line will be Chang Wattana Government centre - the peak hour loads will be far in excess of what the monorail can do.

EDIT - the currently open BTS lines carry 600,000 passengers per day over a total of 36km of track. How will a much smaller monorail manage 200,000 over the same distance?

Edited September 11, 2014 by airconsult

[Cuchulainn]

Will be grossly overcrowded!!

[Expat Girl]

Fantastic news, it's great to see the government making these investments in infrastructure. Along with the Blue Line extension, the Purple Line and the BTS extension, Bangkok is moving in the right direction, well done.

[AGareth2]

Good news

[Lakegeneve]

It resurfaced again did it? Somebody check the identities of the bidders.

The change to monorail was killed off twice because they are notoriously unreliable and have a very low passenger count per hour. The BTS-style system originally proposed would handle 5 times greater passenger load per hour, and has 10 times the MTBF.

Considering the busiest stop on this line will be Chang Wattana Government centre - the peak hour loads will be far in excess of what the monorail can do.

EDIT - the currently open BTS lines carry 600,000 passengers per day over a total of 36km of track. How will a much smaller monorail manage 200,000 over the same distance?

The line never went away, it has been delayed for a cumulative total of 3.5 years.

The change to a monorail instead of heavy rail occurred in late 2008 ostensibly for cost reasons but in reality due to lobbying from a monorail form south of the border. The monorail decision was reviewed by the Dem govt in 2010 and the PT govt in April 2012 but it was never "killed off". Unfortunately!

The current projected costs of the line now exceed what the projected costs of a heavy rail line were 5 years ago. All of your concerns are valid given that this is a key E-W route in the northern suburbs with very heavy traffic demands. It should be heavy rail for the obvious reasons.

Ap

[chainarong]

The Pink line needs more work done on its planning, one wounders who has the majority of shares in the local concrete works, lets get the B.P. to do some investigating, lets cut to the chase, light rail would kill the mono concept. and would be far cheaper.

[Expat Girl]

I would assume, please correct me if i am wrong, that the monorail would essentially have two 'monorails' if that makes sense, one for each direction. If that is the case i believe the movement of 200,000 people a day is achievable. Not sure how many passengers per train, but at a guess i would say 900. Hopefully it will look visually better than the BTS as i expect there will be more light between the two 'rails' or one as the case maybe.

[quidnunc]

I would assume, please correct me if i am wrong, that the monorail would essentially have two 'monorails' if that makes sense, one for each direction. If that is the case i believe the movement of 200,000 people a day is achievable. Not sure how many passengers per train, but at a guess i would say 900. Hopefully it will look visually better than the BTS as i expect there will be more light between the two 'rails' or one as the case maybe.

Doesn't make sense. First off, in the article it says they chose the monorail because it has a smaller turning radius. Secondly, if there were 2 separate tracks that would mean that the direction the train is heading on each track would alternate. That would create a lot of confusion.

[airconsult]

I would assume, please correct me if i am wrong, that the monorail would essentially have two 'monorails' if that makes sense, one for each direction. If that is the case i believe the movement of 200,000 people a day is achievable. Not sure how many passengers per train, but at a guess i would say 900. Hopefully it will look visually better than the BTS as i expect there will be more light between the two 'rails' or one as the case maybe.

I like optimism - but let's look at it this way.

200,000 divided by 18 hours (it won't be open 24 hrs) - that's 11111 per hour (call it 11 thousand, give them a chance here).

Now - if a train departs every 5 minutes, that's 916 every 5 minutes (and we can assume some people are going in both directions)

If it is the same design as KL - then each carriage carries max 158 passengers in a 2-car configuration.

Oops - now we're "off the rails" so to speak as we need to carry 916 every 5 minutes and even if people are travelling equally in both directions we have 632 - short by almost 300.

Again - compare that to the heavy rail which is BTS - currently 600,000 in 18 hours over the same distance with more stations (stations are a delay).

The monorail concept doesn't make sense for the number of people it will need to accommodate after the first 6 months.

EDIT - last item *NOISE* The design of the BTS tracks with the sides tends to funnel most of the noise upwards. A monorail design doesn't do that, and will be travelling through residential neighbourhoods.

Edited September 11, 2014 by airconsult

[Expat Girl]

I would assume, please correct me if i am wrong, that the monorail would essentially have two 'monorails' if that makes sense, one for each direction. If that is the case i believe the movement of 200,000 people a day is achievable. Not sure how many passengers per train, but at a guess i would say 900. Hopefully it will look visually better than the BTS as i expect there will be more light between the two 'rails' or one as the case maybe.

Doesn't make sense. First off, in the article it says they chose the monorail because it has a smaller turning radius. Secondly, if there were 2 separate tracks that would mean that the direction the train is heading on each track would alternate. That would create a lot of confusion.

I do agree with the smaller turning radius, and of course the greater the profile of the 'monorail track' the greater the turning radius. But if you look at the picture in the news story it does indicate dual 'monorail tracks' and also i did a quick Google search on the Pink Line and the Wiki article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MRT_Pink_Line does state two 'monorail tracks', how true this is i don't know, but personally i think it will be two track given the distance of the network.

With regard to the direction if there was two tracks, i do not believe this would be any different to the BTS, they would need a crossover area at the two terminus stations, which i believe is feasible with Monorail Systems.

[halloween]

I would assume, please correct me if i am wrong, that the monorail would essentially have two 'monorails' if that makes sense, one for each direction. If that is the case i believe the movement of 200,000 people a day is achievable. Not sure how many passengers per train, but at a guess i would say 900. Hopefully it will look visually better than the BTS as i expect there will be more light between the two 'rails' or one as the case maybe.

Doesn't make sense. First off, in the article it says they chose the monorail because it has a smaller turning radius. Secondly, if there were 2 separate tracks that would mean that the direction the train is heading on each track would alternate. That would create a lot of confusion.

You never had a train set as a kid?

[lvr181]

I would assume, please correct me if i am wrong, that the monorail would essentially have two 'monorails' if that makes sense, one for each direction. If that is the case i believe the movement of 200,000 people a day is achievable. Not sure how many passengers per train, but at a guess i would say 900. Hopefully it will look visually better than the BTS as i expect there will be more light between the two 'rails' or one as the case maybe.

Doesn't make sense. First off, in the article it says they chose the monorail because it has a smaller turning radius. Secondly, if there were 2 separate tracks that would mean that the direction the train is heading on each track would alternate. That would create a lot of confusion.

You never had a train set as a kid?

Oh, give quidnunc a break - he/she probably cannot remember that far back

A "single rail system" hardly meets future proofing requirements. Do it right the first time and transparently without corruption (I ask hopefully).

[Expat Girl]

I would assume, please correct me if i am wrong, that the monorail would essentially have two 'monorails' if that makes sense, one for each direction. If that is the case i believe the movement of 200,000 people a day is achievable. Not sure how many passengers per train, but at a guess i would say 900. Hopefully it will look visually better than the BTS as i expect there will be more light between the two 'rails' or one as the case maybe.

I like optimism - but let's look at it this way.

200,000 divided by 18 hours (it won't be open 24 hrs) - that's 11111 per hour (call it 11 thousand, give them a chance here).

Now - if a train departs every 5 minutes, that's 916 every 5 minutes (and we can assume some people are going in both directions)

If it is the same design as KL - then each carriage carries max 158 passengers in a 2-car configuration.

Oops - now we're "off the rails" so to speak as we need to carry 916 every 5 minutes and even if people are travelling equally in both directions we have 632 - short by almost 300.

Again - compare that to the heavy rail which is BTS - currently 600,000 in 18 hours over the same distance with more stations (stations are a delay).

The monorail concept doesn't make sense for the number of people it will need to accommodate after the first 6 months.

EDIT - last item *NOISE* The design of the BTS tracks with the sides tends to funnel most of the noise upwards. A monorail design doesn't do that, and will be travelling through residential neighbourhoods.

I don't believe this system will be anything like the KL Monorail, i am sure the responsible parties in the government have undertaken a details analysis of the patronage of the system and that is why they are quoting the figures they are, whether they are realistic remains to be seen, but there is always a fine balance between peak and off peak services, as no doubt we have all witnessed on occasions on the BTS.

11,000 per hour is very achievable, remember they will be running services in both directions, not just 916 every 5 minutes in one direction, there will be peak and off peak flow both inbound and outbound so there should be some balance as to the amount of passenger in each direction.

I do agree stations are a delay, but disagree on the noise, most monorails are very quite, given the vehicles predominately run on rubber tyres, and unlike the BTS there is a lot of noise distributed between the rail and wheel, metal to metal which produces a high level of vibration through the concrete bed, which is very rigid.

Here is my prediction, 6 car monorail, dual 'monorail tracks' moving between 20 and 22,000 passengers per hour (10 to 11,000 on average each way), at a minimum, and if the MRTA and BTS systems are anything to go by, it will be an excellent network. Again hats off to the Thai government for moving forward with these projects, lets hope it does get cabinet approval.

Edited September 11, 2014 by Expat Girl

[Canada]

I find it interesting that the project will open to bidders and then construction design will happen later. Must be a misquote or something. How could you possibly bid on something that was not yet spec'd?

[Expat Girl]

I find it interesting that the project will open to bidders and then construction design will happen later. Must be a misquote or something. How could you possibly bid on something that was not yet spec'd?

I agree, i expect, if it does get approval, there will be a phase were a multitude of consultants will spec everything out, then it will go out to tender and the bidders will make there recommendations both on price and the technical aspects.

Personally, without being negative, i cannot see the construction tenders going out till early 2015, maybe February or March, but sometimes things do move along when they want them to.

[halloween]

When a new poster appears to be interested in only one topic about which they are both very positive and knowledgeable, I have to wonder about ulterior motives.

[Expat Girl]

When a new poster appears to be interested in only one topic about which they are both very positive and knowledgeable, I have to wonder about ulterior motives.

Don't worry i have no ulterior motives, i just joined this forum today and this was the first topic i picked up on, and not had a great deal of time to browse them all given i am sat at work. I will be active in other posts, i am sure there is some great discussions on this website, good and bad, and hopefully i can contribute.

[airconsult]

When a new poster appears to be interested in only one topic about which they are both very positive and knowledgeable, I have to wonder about ulterior motives.

Don't worry i have no ulterior motives, i just joined this forum today and this was the first topic i picked up on, and not had a great deal of time to browse them all given i am sat at work. I will be active in other posts, i am sure there is some great discussions on this website, good and bad, and hopefully i can contribute.

I'll try and keep my cynicism down for a while - welcome and cheers!

[airconsult]

I would assume, please correct me if i am wrong, that the monorail would essentially have two 'monorails' if that makes sense, one for each direction. If that is the case i believe the movement of 200,000 people a day is achievable. Not sure how many passengers per train, but at a guess i would say 900. Hopefully it will look visually better than the BTS as i expect there will be more light between the two 'rails' or one as the case maybe.

I like optimism - but let's look at it this way.

200,000 divided by 18 hours (it won't be open 24 hrs) - that's 11111 per hour (call it 11 thousand, give them a chance here).

Now - if a train departs every 5 minutes, that's 916 every 5 minutes (and we can assume some people are going in both directions)

If it is the same design as KL - then each carriage carries max 158 passengers in a 2-car configuration.

Oops - now we're "off the rails" so to speak as we need to carry 916 every 5 minutes and even if people are travelling equally in both directions we have 632 - short by almost 300.

Again - compare that to the heavy rail which is BTS - currently 600,000 in 18 hours over the same distance with more stations (stations are a delay).

The monorail concept doesn't make sense for the number of people it will need to accommodate after the first 6 months.

EDIT - last item *NOISE* The design of the BTS tracks with the sides tends to funnel most of the noise upwards. A monorail design doesn't do that, and will be travelling through residential neighbourhoods.

I don't believe this system will be anything like the KL Monorail, i am sure the responsible parties in the government have undertaken a details analysis of the patronage of the system and that is why they are quoting the figures they are, whether they are realistic remains to be seen, but there is always a fine balance between peak and off peak services, as no doubt we have all witnessed on occasions on the BTS.

11,000 per hour is very achievable, remember they will be running services in both directions, not just 916 every 5 minutes in one direction, there will be peak and off peak flow both inbound and outbound so there should be some balance as to the amount of passenger in each direction.

I do agree stations are a delay, but disagree on the noise, most monorails are very quite, given the vehicles predominately run on rubber tyres, and unlike the BTS there is a lot of noise distributed between the rail and wheel, metal to metal which produces a high level of vibration through the concrete bed, which is very rigid.

Here is my prediction, 6 car monorail, dual 'monorail tracks' moving between 20 and 22,000 passengers per hour (10 to 11,000 on average each way), at a minimum, and if the MRTA and BTS systems are anything to go by, it will be an excellent network. Again hats off to the Thai government for moving forward with these projects, lets hope it does get cabinet approval.

I certainly hope you're right - but as it seems to be coming out of the ministry and not BMA - I won't hold my breath.

BMA has had *reasonable* results with their modelling and planning for growth - the only really major screwup was with the single-line section of the Silom line due to difficulties on land access (temple on one side - bridge owned by provincial roads authority(huh?) on the other).

On the other hand the last bit of train tinkering the ministry did directly was the airportlink. That was..... disasterous..... Budget blew out enormously, number of carriage sets reduced to 12 (so no spares right now), station access appalling at several (including makkasan). And 3 1/2 years later it's overstressed and underfunded. It took 2 years for SRT to get a budget approved from the ministry to purchase new sets and spares.

That is what I'm afraid of.

EDIT - only thing I was really happy about with the airportlink is it provides a lovely dark fibre run from airport to city.

Edited September 11, 2014 by airconsult

[Expat Girl]

When a new poster appears to be interested in only one topic about which they are both very positive and knowledgeable, I have to wonder about ulterior motives.

Don't worry i have no ulterior motives, i just joined this forum today and this was the first topic i picked up on, and not had a great deal of time to browse them all given i am sat at work. I will be active in other posts, i am sure there is some great discussions on this website, good and bad, and hopefully i can contribute.

I'll try and keep my cynicism down for a while - welcome and cheers!

Thanks Airconsult, good to have a bit of banter now and again.

[Lakegeneve]

I would assume, please correct me if i am wrong, that the monorail would essentially have two 'monorails' if that makes sense, one for each direction. If that is the case i believe the movement of 200,000 people a day is achievable. Not sure how many passengers per train, but at a guess i would say 900. Hopefully it will look visually better than the BTS as i expect there will be more light between the two 'rails' or one as the case maybe.

Doesn't make sense. First off, in the article it says they chose the monorail because it has a smaller turning radius. Secondly, if there were 2 separate tracks that would mean that the direction the train is heading on each track would alternate. That would create a lot of confusion.

I do agree with the smaller turning radius, and of course the greater the profile of the 'monorail track' the greater the turning radius. But if you look at the picture in the news story it does indicate dual 'monorail tracks' and also i did a quick Google search on the Pink Line and the Wiki article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MRT_Pink_Line does state two 'monorail tracks', how true this is i don't know, but personally i think it will be two track given the distance of the network.

With regard to the direction if there was two tracks, i do not believe this would be any different to the BTS, they would need a crossover area at the two terminus stations, which i believe is feasible with Monorail Systems.

Goodness me, why all of the confusion???

It is a monorail, ie. it has one rail for EACH direction. One track heads west, the other heads east.

Watch this video to get the idea if you don't understand why there are two rails.....

This Yellow Line video also clearly shows (both will use the same monorail supplier as the MRTA will select one for both lines)

[Lakegeneve]

I find it interesting that the project will open to bidders and then construction design will happen later. Must be a misquote or something. How could you possibly bid on something that was not yet spec'd?

The whole line has been designed for at least 18 months now.

It was due to go to tender in mid 2013, then late 2013 but was delayed due to the political crisis. The design issue relates to the fact that prior to tendering the line for construction the MRTA needs to select a monorail supplier first (they will select one to supply rolling stock for both the Pink and Yellow lines and realised this a bit late) as that dictates the final technical design of the rail.

Each monorail supplier uses a different type of rail. There is some standardisation but there are numerous different types of monorails (including suspension monorails like the worlds oldest monorail in Weppertal, see pic)

[Lakegeneve]

I would assume, please correct me if i am wrong, that the monorail would essentially have two 'monorails' if that makes sense, one for each direction. If that is the case i believe the movement of 200,000 people a day is achievable. Not sure how many passengers per train, but at a guess i would say 900. Hopefully it will look visually better than the BTS as i expect there will be more light between the two 'rails' or one as the case maybe.

I like optimism - but let's look at it this way.

200,000 divided by 18 hours (it won't be open 24 hrs) - that's 11111 per hour (call it 11 thousand, give them a chance here).

Now - if a train departs every 5 minutes, that's 916 every 5 minutes (and we can assume some people are going in both directions)

If it is the same design as KL - then each carriage carries max 158 passengers in a 2-car configuration.

Oops - now we're "off the rails" so to speak as we need to carry 916 every 5 minutes and even if people are travelling equally in both directions we have 632 - short by almost 300.

Again - compare that to the heavy rail which is BTS - currently 600,000 in 18 hours over the same distance with more stations (stations are a delay).

The monorail concept doesn't make sense for the number of people it will need to accommodate after the first 6 months.

EDIT - last item *NOISE* The design of the BTS tracks with the sides tends to funnel most of the noise upwards. A monorail design doesn't do that, and will be travelling through residential neighbourhoods.

I don't believe this system will be anything like the KL Monorail, i am sure the responsible parties in the government have undertaken a details analysis of the patronage of the system and that is why they are quoting the figures they are, whether they are realistic remains to be seen, but there is always a fine balance between peak and off peak services, as no doubt we have all witnessed on occasions on the BTS.

11,000 per hour is very achievable, remember they will be running services in both directions, not just 916 every 5 minutes in one direction, there will be peak and off peak flow both inbound and outbound so there should be some balance as to the amount of passenger in each direction.

I do agree stations are a delay, but disagree on the noise, most monorails are very quite, given the vehicles predominately run on rubber tyres, and unlike the BTS there is a lot of noise distributed between the rail and wheel, metal to metal which produces a high level of vibration through the concrete bed, which is very rigid.

Here is my prediction, 6 car monorail, dual 'monorail tracks' moving between 20 and 22,000 passengers per hour (10 to 11,000 on average each way), at a minimum, and if the MRTA and BTS systems are anything to go by, it will be an excellent network. Again hats off to the Thai government for moving forward with these projects, lets hope it does get cabinet approval.

I certainly hope you're right - but as it seems to be coming out of the ministry and not BMA - I won't hold my breath.

BMA has had *reasonable* results with their modelling and planning for growth - the only really major screwup was with the single-line section of the Silom line due to difficulties on land access (temple on one side - bridge owned by provincial roads authority(huh?) on the other).

On the other hand the last bit of train tinkering the ministry did directly was the airportlink. That was..... disasterous..... Budget blew out enormously, number of carriage sets reduced to 12 (so no spares right now), station access appalling at several (including makkasan). And 3 1/2 years later it's overstressed and underfunded. It took 2 years for SRT to get a budget approved from the ministry to purchase new sets and spares.

That is what I'm afraid of.

EDIT - only thing I was really happy about with the airportlink is it provides a lovely dark fibre run from airport to city.

A couple of things in respect of your post.

The Ministry of Transport is ultimately responsible for all projects including the few BMA funded ones. They have to sign off on them. OTP is the MOT agency responsible for the planning (the current Master Plan) and the MRTA responsible for the implementation, construction and operation undertaken via the private concessionaire model. The MRTA is actually seriously considering running the BTS ext from Bearing to Samut Prakhan.

Everything currently under constuction (Purple Line, Blue line ext, BTS ext, SRT Dark Red line) are all MOT projects via either the MRTA or the SRT. All other projects are MRTA projects, aside from the Grey line and potential BTS Bang Wah ext which the BMA MAY fund .

See full project list here (#293), http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/406991-the-new-skytrain/page-12

Post coup update #320, http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/406991-the-new-skytrain/page-13

Secondly, the money for the new rolling stock (7 sets of 4 cars) for the ARL was approved 2 years ago in May 2012, by Cabinet (I can reference the exact Cabinet mtg date of that helps....). "May 2012 7 New Sets of four car formation for Airport Link with the price tag of 4.2 Billion Baht approved - to be delivered in 2014"

The original delivery date as you can see was going to be this year. The reason for the delay? Partially, the dysfunctional SRT which has notoriously slow tender and procurement processes. Partially, political due to the fact that earlier last year the Minister reviewed what type of rolling stock to purchase as there was a push to buy cheaper CNS rolling stock (German Spainish were under consideration) which would have also meant having to change the signalling system . This review took some 8 months and then the whole political spat of late last year took over.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/369458-airport-rail-link-again-sorry/page-24#entry8362777

8 months review + 7 months of a political protest/dissolved parliament + 4 months of a post coup period before the issue goes back to Cabinet again and is approved AGAIN.

As it stands now, the SRTET is trying to tender this prior to the end of the year for a 2017 delivery date.

[airconsult]

I like optimism - but let's look at it this way.

200,000 divided by 18 hours (it won't be open 24 hrs) - that's 11111 per hour (call it 11 thousand, give them a chance here).

Now - if a train departs every 5 minutes, that's 916 every 5 minutes (and we can assume some people are going in both directions)

If it is the same design as KL - then each carriage carries max 158 passengers in a 2-car configuration.

Oops - now we're "off the rails" so to speak as we need to carry 916 every 5 minutes and even if people are travelling equally in both directions we have 632 - short by almost 300.

Again - compare that to the heavy rail which is BTS - currently 600,000 in 18 hours over the same distance with more stations (stations are a delay).

The monorail concept doesn't make sense for the number of people it will need to accommodate after the first 6 months.

EDIT - last item *NOISE* The design of the BTS tracks with the sides tends to funnel most of the noise upwards. A monorail design doesn't do that, and will be travelling through residential neighbourhoods.

I don't believe this system will be anything like the KL Monorail, i am sure the responsible parties in the government have undertaken a details analysis of the patronage of the system and that is why they are quoting the figures they are, whether they are realistic remains to be seen, but there is always a fine balance between peak and off peak services, as no doubt we have all witnessed on occasions on the BTS.

11,000 per hour is very achievable, remember they will be running services in both directions, not just 916 every 5 minutes in one direction, there will be peak and off peak flow both inbound and outbound so there should be some balance as to the amount of passenger in each direction.

I do agree stations are a delay, but disagree on the noise, most monorails are very quite, given the vehicles predominately run on rubber tyres, and unlike the BTS there is a lot of noise distributed between the rail and wheel, metal to metal which produces a high level of vibration through the concrete bed, which is very rigid.

Here is my prediction, 6 car monorail, dual 'monorail tracks' moving between 20 and 22,000 passengers per hour (10 to 11,000 on average each way), at a minimum, and if the MRTA and BTS systems are anything to go by, it will be an excellent network. Again hats off to the Thai government for moving forward with these projects, lets hope it does get cabinet approval.

I certainly hope you're right - but as it seems to be coming out of the ministry and not BMA - I won't hold my breath.

BMA has had *reasonable* results with their modelling and planning for growth - the only really major screwup was with the single-line section of the Silom line due to difficulties on land access (temple on one side - bridge owned by provincial roads authority(huh?) on the other).

On the other hand the last bit of train tinkering the ministry did directly was the airportlink. That was..... disasterous..... Budget blew out enormously, number of carriage sets reduced to 12 (so no spares right now), station access appalling at several (including makkasan). And 3 1/2 years later it's overstressed and underfunded. It took 2 years for SRT to get a budget approved from the ministry to purchase new sets and spares.

That is what I'm afraid of.

EDIT - only thing I was really happy about with the airportlink is it provides a lovely dark fibre run from airport to city.

A couple of things in respect of your post.

The Ministry of Transport is ultimately responsible for all projects including the few BMA funded ones. They have to sign off on them. OTP is the MOT agency responsible for the planning (the current Master Plan) and the MRTA responsible for the implementation, construction and operation undertaken via the private concessionaire model. The MRTA is actually seriously considering running the BTS ext from Bearing to Samut Prakhan.

Everything currently under constuction (Purple Line, Blue line ext, BTS ext, SRT Dark Red line) are all MOT projects via either the MRTA or the SRT. All other projects are MRTA projects, aside from the Grey line and potential BTS Bang Wah ext which the BMA MAY fund .

See full project list here (#293), http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/406991-the-new-skytrain/page-12

Post coup update #320, http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/406991-the-new-skytrain/page-13

Secondly, the money for the new rolling stock (7 sets of 4 cars) for the ARL was approved 2 years ago in May 2012, by Cabinet (I can reference the exact Cabinet mtg date of that helps....). "May 2012 7 New Sets of four car formation for Airport Link with the price tag of 4.2 Billion Baht approved - to be delivered in 2014"

The original delivery date as you can see was going to be this year. The reason for the delay? Partially, the dysfunctional SRT which has notoriously slow tender and procurement processes. Partially, political due to the fact that earlier last year the Minister reviewed what type of rolling stock to purchase as there was a push to buy cheaper CNS rolling stock (German Spainish were under consideration) which would have also meant having to change the signalling system . This review took some 8 months and then the whole political spat of late last year took over.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/369458-airport-rail-link-again-sorry/page-24#entry8362777

8 months review + 7 months of a political protest/dissolved parliament + 4 months of a post coup period before the issue goes back to Cabinet again and is approved AGAIN.

As it stands now, the SRTET is trying to tender this prior to the end of the year for a 2017 delivery date.

Hmm,

"Secondly, the money for the new rolling stock (7 sets of 4 cars) for the ARL was approved 2 years ago in May 2012, by Cabinet (I can reference the exact Cabinet mtg date of that helps....). "May 2012 7 New Sets of four car formation for Airport Link with the price tag of 4.2 Billion Baht approved - to be delivered in 2014" "

Not that it matters - but that's what I said - ARL opened in 2010 - 2012 additional carriages were approved. Apart from working with the airport, my wife purchased a house near where the line would be constructed back in 2005 - in 2008 we decided to move into that house, walking distance from a station - so I was very aware of the extended testing/training period (12 months) and final opening for test and then live operation.

You wouldn't believe how much work needed to be done at the airport end, as it had been scheduled originally for a 2007 opening.

Cheers

[Expat Girl]

I would assume, please correct me if i am wrong, that the monorail would essentially have two 'monorails' if that makes sense, one for each direction. If that is the case i believe the movement of 200,000 people a day is achievable. Not sure how many passengers per train, but at a guess i would say 900. Hopefully it will look visually better than the BTS as i expect there will be more light between the two 'rails' or one as the case maybe.

Doesn't make sense. First off, in the article it says they chose the monorail because it has a smaller turning radius. Secondly, if there were 2 separate tracks that would mean that the direction the train is heading on each track would alternate. That would create a lot of confusion.

I do agree with the smaller turning radius, and of course the greater the profile of the 'monorail track' the greater the turning radius. But if you look at the picture in the news story it does indicate dual 'monorail tracks' and also i did a quick Google search on the Pink Line and the Wiki article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MRT_Pink_Line does state two 'monorail tracks', how true this is i don't know, but personally i think it will be two track given the distance of the network.

With regard to the direction if there was two tracks, i do not believe this would be any different to the BTS, they would need a crossover area at the two terminus stations, which i believe is feasible with Monorail Systems.

Goodness me, why all of the confusion???

It is a monorail, ie. it has one rail for EACH direction. One track heads west, the other heads east.

Watch this video to get the idea if you don't understand why there are two rails.....

This Yellow Line video also clearly shows (both will use the same monorail supplier as the MRTA will select one for both lines)

I am sure we understand why there is two rails, but we simply did not have all the information at hand to make that judgement, despite it being logical two rails would be provided given the length of the proposed network.

[Expat Girl]

I find it interesting that the project will open to bidders and then construction design will happen later. Must be a misquote or something. How could you possibly bid on something that was not yet spec'd?

The whole line has been designed for at least 18 months now.

It was due to go to tender in mid 2013, then late 2013 but was delayed due to the political crisis. The design issue relates to the fact that prior to tendering the line for construction the MRTA needs to select a monorail supplier first (they will select one to supply rolling stock for both the Pink and Yellow lines and realised this a bit late) as that dictates the final technical design of the rail.

Each monorail supplier uses a different type of rail. There is some standardisation but there are numerous different types of monorails (including suspension monorails like the worlds oldest monorail in Weppertal, see pic)

It is good to see that a lot of work has been advanced already, i assume this principally relates to the civil and route layout, although as you mention, different suppliers, different rail requirements which will have an impact of what has been produced to date. It is good to see they will choose a single rolling stock supplier . It would be a good idea if the rolling stock supplier was also the systems supplier to keep everything fairly compatible given what occurred on the BTS, and has the potential of occurring on the BTS Blue Line extension, but healthy competition never did anyone harm. Thanks for sharing your knowledge on here.

[Lakegeneve]

Doesn't make sense. First off, in the article it says they chose the monorail because it has a smaller turning radius. Secondly, if there were 2 separate tracks that would mean that the direction the train is heading on each track would alternate. That would create a lot of confusion.

I do agree with the smaller turning radius, and of course the greater the profile of the 'monorail track' the greater the turning radius. But if you look at the picture in the news story it does indicate dual 'monorail tracks' and also i did a quick Google search on the Pink Line and the Wiki article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MRT_Pink_Line does state two 'monorail tracks', how true this is i don't know, but personally i think it will be two track given the distance of the network.

With regard to the direction if there was two tracks, i do not believe this would be any different to the BTS, they would need a crossover area at the two terminus stations, which i believe is feasible with Monorail Systems.

Goodness me, why all of the confusion???

It is a monorail, ie. it has one rail for EACH direction. One track heads west, the other heads east.

Watch this video to get the idea if you don't understand why there are two rails.....

This Yellow Line video also clearly shows (both will use the same monorail supplier as the MRTA will select one for both lines)

I am sure we understand why there is two rails, but we simply did not have all the information at hand to make that judgement, despite it being logical two rails would be provided given the length of the proposed network.

Length has nothing to do with it (as any girl knows!).

Unless one plans to have a one direction loop line, if you want people to travel in both directions you need two rails. Very logical is it not?

Just a small correction to the above post, the Blue Line is a MRTA line, it has nothing to do with the BTS.

Edited September 12, 2014 by Lakegeneve

[Lakegeneve]

I don't believe this system will be anything like the KL Monorail, i am sure the responsible parties in the government have undertaken a details analysis of the patronage of the system and that is why they are quoting the figures they are, whether they are realistic remains to be seen, but there is always a fine balance between peak and off peak services, as no doubt we have all witnessed on occasions on the BTS.

11,000 per hour is very achievable, remember they will be running services in both directions, not just 916 every 5 minutes in one direction, there will be peak and off peak flow both inbound and outbound so there should be some balance as to the amount of passenger in each direction.

I do agree stations are a delay, but disagree on the noise, most monorails are very quite, given the vehicles predominately run on rubber tyres, and unlike the BTS there is a lot of noise distributed between the rail and wheel, metal to metal which produces a high level of vibration through the concrete bed, which is very rigid.

Here is my prediction, 6 car monorail, dual 'monorail tracks' moving between 20 and 22,000 passengers per hour (10 to 11,000 on average each way), at a minimum, and if the MRTA and BTS systems are anything to go by, it will be an excellent network. Again hats off to the Thai government for moving forward with these projects, lets hope it does get cabinet approval.

I certainly hope you're right - but as it seems to be coming out of the ministry and not BMA - I won't hold my breath.

BMA has had *reasonable* results with their modelling and planning for growth - the only really major screwup was with the single-line section of the Silom line due to difficulties on land access (temple on one side - bridge owned by provincial roads authority(huh?) on the other).

On the other hand the last bit of train tinkering the ministry did directly was the airportlink. That was..... disasterous..... Budget blew out enormously, number of carriage sets reduced to 12 (so no spares right now), station access appalling at several (including makkasan). And 3 1/2 years later it's overstressed and underfunded. It took 2 years for SRT to get a budget approved from the ministry to purchase new sets and spares.

That is what I'm afraid of.

EDIT - only thing I was really happy about with the airportlink is it provides a lovely dark fibre run from airport to city.

A couple of things in respect of your post.

The Ministry of Transport is ultimately responsible for all projects including the few BMA funded ones. They have to sign off on them. OTP is the MOT agency responsible for the planning (the current Master Plan) and the MRTA responsible for the implementation, construction and operation undertaken via the private concessionaire model. The MRTA is actually seriously considering running the BTS ext from Bearing to Samut Prakhan.

Everything currently under constuction (Purple Line, Blue line ext, BTS ext, SRT Dark Red line) are all MOT projects via either the MRTA or the SRT. All other projects are MRTA projects, aside from the Grey line and potential BTS Bang Wah ext which the BMA MAY fund .

See full project list here (#293), http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/406991-the-new-skytrain/page-12

Post coup update #320, http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/406991-the-new-skytrain/page-13

Secondly, the money for the new rolling stock (7 sets of 4 cars) for the ARL was approved 2 years ago in May 2012, by Cabinet (I can reference the exact Cabinet mtg date of that helps....). "May 2012 7 New Sets of four car formation for Airport Link with the price tag of 4.2 Billion Baht approved - to be delivered in 2014"

The original delivery date as you can see was going to be this year. The reason for the delay? Partially, the dysfunctional SRT which has notoriously slow tender and procurement processes. Partially, political due to the fact that earlier last year the Minister reviewed what type of rolling stock to purchase as there was a push to buy cheaper CNS rolling stock (German Spainish were under consideration) which would have also meant having to change the signalling system . This review took some 8 months and then the whole political spat of late last year took over.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/369458-airport-rail-link-again-sorry/page-24#entry8362777

8 months review + 7 months of a political protest/dissolved parliament + 4 months of a post coup period before the issue goes back to Cabinet again and is approved AGAIN.

As it stands now, the SRTET is trying to tender this prior to the end of the year for a 2017 delivery date.

Hmm,

"Secondly, the money for the new rolling stock (7 sets of 4 cars) for the ARL was approved 2 years ago in May 2012, by Cabinet (I can reference the exact Cabinet mtg date of that helps....). "May 2012 7 New Sets of four car formation for Airport Link with the price tag of 4.2 Billion Baht approved - to be delivered in 2014" "

Not that it matters - but that's what I said - ARL opened in 2010 - 2012 additional carriages were approved. Apart from working with the airport, my wife purchased a house near where the line would be constructed back in 2005 - in 2008 we decided to move into that house, walking distance from a station - so I was very aware of the extended testing/training period (12 months) and final opening for test and then live operation.

You wouldn't believe how much work needed to be done at the airport end, as it had been scheduled originally for a 2007 opening.

Cheers

Actually, I would. When civil works first started in early 2005 (contract was signed on 20 Jan 05), testing was planned for Feb-Mar 08 and the planned opening date was between April to mid 2008. Not sure where you got the 2007 from? (Of course you would know that back in 2002 the Taksin govt deferred building the ARL until later in the decade and then 18 months later in 2004 reversed the decision upon advice from OTP & MOT. An 8 month evaluation study was undertaken from Feb 2004).

Construction was delayed by 15 months due to land access issues (moving squatters & NASA disco etc) and then another 12 months due to overrun installation of the E&S schedule. It essentially opened 2.2 years later than planned but that was consistent with all other metro line openings in BKK.

I'm surprised that you were referring to 2012 in your original post as you obviously had insight or predictions going back to 2010 that no one else had. (Given the normal 2 yr period from order to delivery of new trains) Essentially, what you are suggesting is that the SRTET should have placed an order for new rolling stock just when the line opened!

The original business plan envisaged purchasing new Cityline rolling stock when demand required (a threshold of daily pax ridership, which was forecast to be in year 5/6 of operations. The fact that daily pax rates grew so quickly and beyond expectations meant that by the 2nd year of operations an urgent order of new rolling stock was required.

Also by then the obvious failure of the business plan relying too heavily on the Express was exposed. Unfortunately, the SRTET had no funds so had to go cap in hand asking for it. The reasons for delays since then were previously mentioned. (It might be worth noting that the BTSC has not purchased any new rolling stock on time to meet growing pax demand -mainly due to a lack of funds - and all their 3 deliveries have been late. It seems to be the way in BKK. BMCL still has yet to purchase any new stock for the MRT line!

Thankfully, they at least didn't make it a stupid monorail line!

[halloween]

Length has nothing to do with it (as any girl knows!).

Unless one plans to have a one direction loop line, if you want people to travel in both directions you need two rails. Very logical is it not?

Just a small correction to the above post, the Blue Line is a MRTA line, it has nothing to do with the BTS.

A single track with passing loops in evenly spaced stations would also be an option. Works fine on the southern railway line, and other long lines where high traffic density is not required.