Kremlin hits back at Thai Immigration's out-in visa ban

[GAZZPA]

I could not disagree more. I have had countless friends visit over the years, who are wealthy, and drop insane amounts of money here, and they have done border runs, or gotten extensions, when they have decided to extend their trips. I agree once this has been done five or ten, or fifty times, it is something else, though in many of these instances they are not working in Thailand. But, once or twice? What is the harm in that? That is just boneheaded policy. Plain and simple. Policy designed with not one iota of forethought, nor vision.

Immigration isn't stopping people who do this "once or twice". It's the ones doing it more than that that they are singling out.

Ok, but it is missing the point a little..

It is not illegal to leave and then come back again, there is no law that I know of that states that this is illegal or how many times it is acceptable. So, it is not enforcement as there is nothing to enforce,, except where the immigration authorities believe that the person is working which is if course illegal on a tourist visa.

I don't believe this is a huge issue anyway. I don't know of many foreigners on tourist visas who are working here. The exception being a couple of teachers but one of those has now got a work permit, the other went home..

[pattayaorganic]

We are all forgetting one small detail: Victor Bout

Supplying Buk's to Southern rebels is not entirely out of reason...

[BwindiBoy]

In my opinion the whole point of this issue is IF the wording of the treaty agreement between Russia and Thailand is as presented ... “According to Paragraph 1 of a bilateral intergovernmental agreement [between Russia and Thailand], Russian tourists are allowed to enter Thailand for up to 30 days, after which they must leave the country, [but] the number of entries is not limited.” ... then Thailand is unilaterally reneging on the treaty without any formal discussion between the parties.

But it remains to be seen that in that referenced treaty the wording "...[but] the number of entries is not limited.”... is really there or not ... or was it just implied or inferred because no wording was including prohibiting numerous entries or otherwise limiting the number.

Even if the treat is as claimed, I doubt much could be done about it - except to stop allowing all tourist from Russia to visit Thailand. If there was enough economic impact then Thailand might change its mind. Or if Russia is supplying other services or loans or energy ... then Russia would have some sway in the matter. Or it might be that such publicity only adds to the dismal Public Relations Thailand is currently projecting and things will change.

But with Russians and all others ... I find it incongruous that Thai Immigration suddenly starts to enforce an old dusty law that they had not been enforced at all for many years ... and even facilitated the comings and goings of people across borders doing ridiculous border runs / visa runs - making the ins and outs totally allowed - and now not only wants to begin enforcement but call those who availed themselves of the NON ENFORCEMENT in past years abusers or worse ... Amazing Thailand... TiT... (let the dog out of the cage to run free - then put the dog back in the cage and call him BAD DOG)... so fricken funny. And TVF members who join in with this absurdity by Thai Immigration and call people names for doing only what was allowed and facilitated at the time are even more duplicitous than Thai Immigration.

I've highlighted in red why I believe your assertion that Thailand is reneging on the treaty is not accurate...

If they are (believed to be) working, they are not tourists. If they are not tourists, Thailand is not reneging on the deal.

Your argument might have a leg to stand on IF you can post a link to an official Thailand Government Document defining what a tourist is - how long they are allowed to stay, etc. Surely you have that link form Thai Immigration maybe? You and others want to use a simplistic outdated concept of what a tourist is and the length of stay allowed a tourist with no basis other than your opinion as to what it should be.

I am no fan of Russians here in Thailand - some of the most rude , loud and obnoxious people I have met in Thailand are Russians... but I live and let live - it is not my business. And yes - many are refused to be allowed entry because someone believes they are working!... Based only on an in and out pattern ... Could it be that the in and out pattern is due to it is one of the very few ways they can stay here if under age 50 and nothing more? Yes - absolutely Thai immigration can do what it wants to - be arbitrary, capricious and even harsh and they are obviously free to also act stupidly - against their own country's long interests. Thai Immigration just cannot do it the hard way ... go to shops along the tourists areas and find those who are working here illegally. It is amazing that they cannot do it -- I see them everyday here in Ao Nang... And yes I know one when I see one ... that 30ish blonde European gal working in the upscale hamburger place is not here legally - 9 times out of 10... nor is the 40ish European guy in Koh Samui working the tour shop at Arc Bar here legally either... Russians running amok all over Pattaya and Phuket and no one can spot them working? ... I bet I could. Thailand is taking the shotgun - big easy net approach and has no care as to who they label as 'working' and no proof either. . . I don't think Thailand should allow illegal workers - but they are going about it the wrong damned way.

Hey - I would like a part time job to save up for a few business ideas... and after Thai immigration runs off all the under age 50 crowd - me being way over 50 - able bodied - here on an easy to get long term visa - in six more months or so I am going to be a very sought after popular item... Love it.

Such emotive language... There is not a hint of an argument from me; I was merely highlighting...and deliberately chose non emotive language. Hey ho.

[Jim walker]

Putin beware he had better watch what he is saying to Thailand Junta they are just poised and battle ready with all these modern armaments just ready and poised to launch and take Moscow within a couple of days.

[Equalizer]

In all fairness, the Thai authorities should not be dictating what a tourist should be. At the end of the day if you are in this country and you are not working, you do the border runs, you abide by the rules etc what is the problem. ''If they really want to travel around the country for more than 30 days, then they must show us a plausible plan''. WHY? There may be no grand plan! this is pure paranoia. ''If we believe their purpose in coming to Thailand is not what they say it is, then we will order them to leave and they will be blacklisted. They will not be able to return to Thailand, ever.” So if a guy says i want to stay here for a year or two spend my money and have a good time this warrants a life time ban? What are these people thinking, it it totally bizarre. If they work ban them, fine but don't tarnish everyone with the same brush.

In their eyes you are not a TOURIST if you constantly do back to back iout-ins, and its THEIR MEANING when they wrote the laws that is important, not yours or anybody else's definition.

And this person who wants to spend 2 years or so here, why would the Thai government WANT to LET him star for 2 years or so?

Because he's spending money? How much? They have no way of knowing or controlling it, so the guy could be a pauper and come live on the streets for 2 years, then overstay.. etc etc... as has happened in the past.

They have set their minimum FINANCIAL requirements and given various ways to fulfill them.

showing 800K investment/living expenses in the bank and or minimum regular income for Retireees

10M invested in government bonds, government bank TD, and I believe property too.

1-2M and annual 20K for Elite Card

If he doesn't meet any of those requirements, is not married to a Thai, has no job and is not here for his education (or any of the more obscure Visa options), then THEY DON'T WANT HIM HERE (no matter how much YOU believe he should be allowed to stay).

The point i am making is who are you or anyone else including Thailand to dictate what a definition of a tourist is? I told you in the post.

At the end of the day if you are in this country and you are not working, you do the border runs, you abide by the rules etc what is the problem.

You are doing border runs precisely because you are not wanting a marriage visa, multiple entry visa, Ed Visa, Elite card, You say this person who wants to spend 2 years or so here, ''why would the Thai government WANT to LET him star for 2 years or so''? Well why not? He is spending HIS MONEY here, Your argument that all people who do border runs will end up on the street begging is ludicrous. I know people who was passing through on their way to Australia and never got there, spent a year or two here blowing all their dosh.

[VINCENT2012]

So how exactly is the Russian government 'hitting back'? What a piece of garbage journalism.

i agree i dont understand nothing more than bla bla bla. crap

[Griffo63]

So how exactly is the Russian government 'hitting back'? What a piece of garbage journalism.

Agreed. Hitting back would be trade sanctions, making it more difficult for Thais to enter/stay in Russia or some other imposition. This is a totally inaccurate headline

[MrMo]

And Thais and farang can go freely to Russia for 30 days at a time and as many times as they like ! ? ! ?

Having visited, lived and worked there I can assure you that's a NO WAY job.

[DrTuner]

Time to abolish that bilateral agreement then. While at it, remove the visa exemption for Russians too. Pretty please with a cherry on the top.

[Tingtau]

So how exactly is the Russian government 'hitting back'? What a piece of garbage journalism.

Haaaah! I guess by telling Thailand that they are mistaken? At least to the jounalist who wants to get his caption on the front page! I guess for that hapless guy, implicit in being "corrected" is the unspoken, but heard by him only

"See, here's what you signed! You're wrong. So, take that, Thailand! Consider yourself TOLD!!" Journalist "OMG, they're talking back!! They're challenging a Thai government body!! OMG!!"

You're right...garbage jounalism.

[catweazle]

I actually thought I'd now reading about Russia sending troops over here to take over Phuket or something, but just found a boring piece of BS journalism where title and text wouldn't match up. What a waste of time...

[whybother]

The point i am making is who are you or anyone else including Thailand to dictate what a definition of a tourist is? I told you in the post.

At the end of the day if you are in this country and you are not working, you do the border runs, you abide by the rules etc what is the problem.

You are doing border runs precisely because you are not wanting a marriage visa, multiple entry visa, Ed Visa, Elite card, You say this person who wants to spend 2 years or so here, ''why would the Thai government WANT to LET him star for 2 years or so''? Well why not? He is spending HIS MONEY here, Your argument that all people who do border runs will end up on the street begging is ludicrous. I know people who was passing through on their way to Australia and never got there, spent a year or two here blowing all their dosh.

It's Thailand. It's completely up to them to define what a tourist is. If they decide that someone that stays in Thailand for more than 3 months is not a tourist, then as far as Thailand is concerned, they are not a tourist.

[Kwic]

Putin gonna invade Thailand too?

Where has Putin invaded? You must read Murdochsteins Rag, All the other papers have the US and Co. invading Countries for quite a few Years now.

Putin gonna invade Thailand too?

too??

What other country does he invade ?

Or he works for the CIA now and i missed this newsflash ?

How about Ukraine? And I don't mean Crimea. What is he doing now? Russians are attacking Ukrainian cities and Putin is pretending they are not from Russia, so how do you call that?

[transam]

So how exactly is the Russian government 'hitting back'?

Well, they are saying "Citizens of the Russian Federation do not...fall under the new rules." So Russia feels that their citizens should be able to exit and re-enter Thailand as often as they like with no limit on the number of back-to-back visa exempt entries.

.....................................to carry on with running their businesses.............

[rayw]

Watch out Thailand. Putin might annex Thailand next!

Joking apart, Putin NEVER force annexed Crimea, the Crimean people massively voted with some 85+% democratically in favour of annexing to Russia, let us all try to remember that. Facts that can be checked rather than the utter crap reported in the western presstitute media. I am neither pro Russia nor particularly now pro America either, but I do like to see some truth which is not what we are being dangerously and stupidly fed from Washington it seems these days !!!!!!!!!! I suppose if you feed folk enough false rubbish for long enough then many of course start believing it.

Personally it should be quite fair and simple, in that you should not discriminate against any race, creed, culture or religion, you judge each individual person's case on it's merits and honesty. Sure tourist visas were NEVER intended for use to stay, live and/or work in Thailand, get used to that as that is all that is now being enforced.

Only thing I will add is what I always say, is that I feel this good and sensible Government we now have here should maybe consider non-immigrant long stay visas like OA for those under 50 who can meet a reasonable financial requirement similar to what retirees over 50 now have to do. So at least folk who have made enough money to retire to Thailand at say 40 should be able to do so legally, provided they meet a predefined laid down requirement, like maybe over a million Baht income or bank account balance, or maybe more than that. Whatever figure is felt reasonable by the Thai immigration authorities for anyone to retire here at a younger age. This would not only bring valuable income into Thailand but also avoid any need and temptation for those folk under 50 to have to try to break the immigration rules just to stay here and all the massive policing complications that causes.

who said anything about crimea?

What a strange comment. Where was the last place that became annexed to Russia hmm ? Was it maybe Crimea ?? So when it said "NEXT" it is surely implicit to anyone with a modicum of grey matter that you are referring to Crimea as that was the previous occurrence, and YES do remember they annexed through the free democratic will of the people, so whether you or I or the currently insane US administration agree or not, is of irrelevant if you believe in the free will of the people as I do. and yet the US Administration only pay lip service to this doctrine it now seems.

Sure Somtamnication was just joking as per his emoticon, and I appreciate that of course, but still I like to try to ensure people do not get their facts wrong especially considering all the clearly apparent lies and misinformation in the Western media these days!!!. That is all on this subject from me as the point is by now surely made.

Edited September 12, 2014 by rayw

[slipperylobster]

Well, if they have bilateral agreements they better stick to those and don't make decisions and announcements without using their brains.

That would be hard for them. I do not want to say why.....

[lucjoker]

Reaction from this youtube clip?

It happened on Koh Larn( or Lanta) and the masked man was arrested.

He told police he had orders from his boss to make everybody pay if they entered the beach.

The boss told him the beach was his.

My wife heard it in the news.

[simondan]

In all fairness, the Thai authorities should not be dictating what a tourist should be. At the end of the day if you are in this country and you are not working, you do the border runs, you abide by the rules etc what is the problem. ''If they really want to travel around the country for more than 30 days, then they must show us a plausible plan''. WHY? There may be no grand plan! this is pure paranoia. ''If we believe their purpose in coming to Thailand is not what they say it is, then we will order them to leave and they will be blacklisted. They will not be able to return to Thailand, ever.” So if a guy says i want to stay here for a year or two spend my money and have a good time this warrants a life time ban? What are these people thinking, it it totally bizarre. If they work ban them, fine but don't tarnish everyone with the same brush.

In their eyes you are not a TOURIST if you constantly do back to back iout-ins, and its THEIR MEANING when they wrote the laws that is important, not yours or anybody else's definition.

And this person who wants to spend 2 years or so here, why would the Thai government WANT to LET him star for 2 years or so?

Because he's spending money? How much? They have no way of knowing or controlling it, so the guy could be a pauper and come live on the streets for 2 years, then overstay.. etc etc... as has happened in the past.

They have set their minimum FINANCIAL requirements and given various ways to fulfill them.

showing 800K investment/living expenses in the bank and or minimum regular income for Retireees

10M invested in government bonds, government bank TD, and I believe property too.

1-2M and annual 20K for Elite Card

If he doesn't meet any of those requirements, is not married to a Thai, has no job and is not here for his education (or any of the more obscure Visa options), then THEY DON'T WANT HIM HERE (no matter how much YOU believe he should be allowed to stay).

The point i am making is who are you or anyone else including Thailand to dictate what a definition of a tourist is? I told you in the post.

At the end of the day if you are in this country and you are not working, you do the border runs, you abide by the rules etc what is the problem.

You are doing border runs precisely because you are not wanting a marriage visa, multiple entry visa, Ed Visa, Elite card, You say this person who wants to spend 2 years or so here, ''why would the Thai government WANT to LET him star for 2 years or so''? Well why not? He is spending HIS MONEY here, Your argument that all people who do border runs will end up on the street begging is ludicrous. I know people who was passing through on their way to Australia and never got there, spent a year or two here blowing all their dosh.

Sovereign nations have the right to define terms how they want. All legislation does this. Its par for the course.

If you think its hard now in the LOS, try being a Thai wanting to come to, say, Australia, on a tourist visa. That will really give you something to whinge about.

[diehard60]

the rusian federation is upset because their people can not come and go as they want to get their drugs and prostitution.

[whybother]

the rusian federation is upset because their people can not come and go as they want to get their drugs and prostitution.

They can come and go as they want ... as long as they DO actually go. It's the ones that don't go that is the issue.

Edited September 12, 2014 by whybother

[freedom4life]

It's high-time that something is done about Thai-immigration and the lackeys running it ...their policies are going to have to change or they are going to meet with some hostility in the not-too-distant future..why should anyone be forced-out of anything if their intentions are fair, reasonable and justified? .

[Traveller45]

...am I missing something here? The title would suggest that Russia took some retaliatory measure or another. Against the many Thais who are visiting Russia regularly or who stay there permanently... But in fact no such thing took place, right?

[belg]

who will miss the russiann tourists?

certainly not me ... already too many of them around everywhere

[freedom4life]

Reaction from this youtube clip?

It happened on Koh Larn( or Lanta) and the masked man was arrested.

He told police he had orders from his boss to make everybody pay if they entered the beach.

The boss told him the beach was his.

My wife heard it in the news.

Harassing tourists now? Whoa...come on buddy, enter my space...sand under your feet will not be the only place you'll feel it.

[greenchair]

In my country.

A thai is entitled to----+

own land

Own 100% of a business.

Own a home outright.

Equal salary, though money is worth 27 times more in home country.

Automatic residence when married.

And automatic citizenship after 5 years.

Old age pension

Unemployment benefits

Single parent benefits if divorce.

State housing.

Probably could add a bit more, but no point.

What about other countries?

what do they offer a thai alien.

[wileycoyote]

Caution should be used in "blanket" legislation.

[MediaWatcher]

Tatsujin, on 11 Sept 2014 - 19:14, said:

edwardandtubs, on 11 Sept 2014 - 19:03, said:

So how exactly is the Russian government 'hitting back'? What a piece of garbage journalism.

Need some glasses?

“According to Paragraph 1 of a bilateral intergovernmental agreement [between Russia and Thailand], Russian tourists are allowed to enter Thailand for up to 30 days, after which they must leave the country, [but] the number of entries is not limited.”

i.e. they can do in and outs as many times as they wish.

The term "hitting back" is miss-used" and miss-leading", I think we have a right to question exactly how is the Russian government "hitting back." To help you understand the meaning...

hit back

to react to something bad by doing something bad.

eg. The attorney general hit back at critics who have questioned her handling of the crisis. We imposed import duties on their goods, and they hit back with tariffs on our products.

[whybother]

In my country.

A thai is entitled to----+

own land

Own 100% of a business.

Own a home outright.

Equal salary, though money is worth 27 times more in home country.

Automatic residence when married.

And automatic citizenship after 5 years.

Old age pension

Unemployment benefits

Single parent benefits if divorce.

State housing.

Probably could add a bit more, but no point.

What about other countries?

what do they offer a thai alien.

Most of those would only be available once they became a citizen.

You can own a home outright in Thailand. You probably get paid much more than a Thai here and even though "money is worth 27 times more", it probable costs 27 times more too.

Thai's barely get any of the benefits (pension, unemployment etc) you mention. Do you expect to get them here when they don't?

[Tony125]

Would Russia really "Hit Back" , I'd say the potential war on their border and EU and US sanctions may be stealing their attention Don't want to test them too much though or they'll be shooting Thai airways out of the sky

They can forbid thier citizens from Traveling to Thailand or ban Thai airlines from flying over Russian territory ( they have already threatened to ban airlines if US and EU puts any more sanctions on them.) Could also restrict or ban tourists from Thailand to enter Russia or seize Thai business asstes in Russia.

[NomadJoe]

So how exactly is the Russian government 'hitting back'?

Well, they are saying "Citizens of the Russian Federation do not...fall under the new rules." So Russia feels that their citizens should be able to exit and re-enter Thailand as often as they like with no limit on the number of back-to-back visa exempt entries.

.....................................to carry on with running their businesses.............

Some yes, some not. I feel for those that weren't, but I am glad to see a lot of the scumbags that come to live in Thailand, of which there are many, have or will be leaving. But this is making things more difficult for my Filipino GF.