5 Immigration officers came to my Home in Samui (Business address)

[NativeSon360]

If you live in a Thai Soi neighborhood, then probably one of your neighbors went "snitching" to the cops, with some made-up "probability" story about you.

[ericthai]

I think the first thing you should do is dial your accountant and hand them the phone. At least thats what my accountant said to do.

No hurry, they know beforehand who the accountant is. The right time for negotiations is after the inspection is made.

Maybe it is the accountant who tips them off about the farang working illegally?

The weak link in the chain is the accountant; when he/she gets caught out for something stupid - like using the same employees for multiple companies - they will give up every one of their clients to save themselves...

My guess is the OP did not have to do anything in person to get the WP and extension - obviously this would mean money changed hands to obtain permits which were illegally issued via the backdoor. Anyone who offers such 'services' is suspect.

One question - would immigration police check the company setup? Is that not under the labor dept, and the normal police (hence the lack of enforcement over the past decade)?

There has been no lack of enforcement in the last decade. I have had my company for a little more than 8 years now. Our office in Bangkok has been visited 2-3 times in the past years. Our factory in Ubon Rachtani about 5 times, checking up on me only once but other times checking on our workers to see if they are Thai of khmer So this does happen. We have had immigration and local police stop by. Labor only came out once in BKK when we first opened our office.

[louse1953]

Busted.

[tony5150]

Great....you A holes scared him off.

[manarak]

I agree with Beetlejuice as I do understand the OP. Fact is that Immigration has the right to check at all times. (Just beware of the fake ones).

There are many people (not judging OP) whom bend the rules and think it's in their rights. However there are tons of farangs just holding companies to keep their property under control. Logically but as stated in Thai law, illegal. Just make sure you have those 4 Thai as real employees. It cost you hardly any Baht and ensures you are fully legal.

They have the right to *try to check* at all times.

They can enter premises if they are publicly accessible, such as shops, accessible offices, etc.

For companies located inside private rooms, they need a warrant to access the room if uninvited.

[manarak]

Since this applies to all foreigners, nothing racist about it.

Yes, please read a dictionary and find the difference between race and nationality/citizenship.

maybe you should read up on what is nowadays engulfed in the concept of "racism" - there are now so many things in there that only a small part is still about "race"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism

[falang07]

Can somebody clear this up please. Is it legal to only pay the social security of the 4 thais ? Is it legal to employ them part time instead of full time ?

Social security has to be paid on full time salaries.

But no one is going to check if the employees got any salary, unless they complain. And again, it is up to the employees if they return any salary to the employer, too. The key is social security in here. If it is paid and no one complains, all is OK.

[stevenl]

Since this applies to all foreigners, nothing racist about it.

Yes, please read a dictionary and find the difference between race and nationality/citizenship.

maybe you should read up on what is nowadays engulfed in the concept of "racism" - there are now so many things in there that only a small part is still about "race"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism

Your link, so sorry, you're wrong. We're not talking biological differences here.

"

Racism consists of both prejudice and discrimination based in social perceptions of biological differences between peoples. It often takes the form of social actions, practices or beliefs, or political systems that consider different races to be ranked as inherently superior or inferior to each other, based on presumed shared inheritable traits, abilities, or qualities. It may also hold that members of different races should be treated differently."

[manarak]

maybe you should read up on what is nowadays engulfed in the concept of "racism" - there are now so many things in there that only a small part is still about "race"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism

Your link, so sorry, you're wrong. We're not talking biological differences here.

"

Racism consists of both prejudice and discrimination based in social perceptions of biological differences between peoples. It often takes the form of social actions, practices or beliefs, or political systems that consider different races to be ranked as inherently superior or inferior to each other, based on presumed shared inheritable traits, abilities, or qualities. It may also hold that members of different races should be treated differently."

you should read the whole article.

the UN definition also includes national origin:

Legal

The UN does not define "racism"; however, it does define "racial discrimination": According to the United Nations Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination,

the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction, or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin that has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.^[25]

Edited September 13, 2014 by manarak

[stevenl]

you should read the whole article.

the UN definition also includes national origin:

Legal

The UN does not define "racism"; however, it does define "racial discrimination": According to the United Nations Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination,

the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction, or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin that has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.^[25]

I did, but don't think the UN definition is 'the definition'. They use that definition for their purposes, but that does not change the meaning of racism: "Racism consists of both prejudice and discrimination based in social perceptions of biological differences between peoples. It often takes the form of social actions, practices or beliefs, or political systems that consider different races to be ranked as inherently superior or inferior to each other, based on presumed shared inheritable traits, abilities, or qualities. It may also hold that members of different races should be treated differently.".

[toooa]

In the U.S., immigrations do make a surprise visit to business owned by investor's visa holder or business employing foreigners with some type of work visa/permit. Our company had this visit twice in 3 months. Basically, USCIS is making sure that they are not abusing their Visa in any way. Sound like Thai Immigration is doing their job and enforcing the laws.

meanwhile leaving the Southern (US) border practically open to illegals... the irony

[manarak]

you should read the whole article.

the UN definition also includes national origin:

Legal

The UN does not define "racism"; however, it does define "racial discrimination": According to the United Nations Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination,

the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction, or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin that has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.^[25]

I did, but don't think the UN definition is 'the definition'. They use that definition for their purposes, but that does not change the meaning of racism: "Racism consists of both prejudice and discrimination based in social perceptions of biological differences between peoples. It often takes the form of social actions, practices or beliefs, or political systems that consider different races to be ranked as inherently superior or inferior to each other, based on presumed shared inheritable traits, abilities, or qualities. It may also hold that members of different races should be treated differently.".

I agree with you in principle, but we are not the persons who shape policies.

The concept fo racism is bound to be ever-growing in scope because rights groups, NGOs and anti-discrimination groups use it to advance their agenda.

From my point of view, yes, racism should be limited to perceived biological differences, yet pro-tolerance groups have been successful in widening the scope to also include people's culture and religion, so that if someone expresses dislike for certain religious or cultural behaviors he can be branded a racist too.

[ubonjoe]

I think it is time to end the off topic bickering about racism, Another post or reply will be removed,