Ghosts

[OZONE]

I have seen two ghosts inThailand.

Both were in my hotel room.

One was a gaint and couldn't stand up inside so walked around crouched in half.

The other ghost was a crazy baby which kept beating its' head against the wall.

Apparently, old hotels are full of ghosts since if people die un-natural deaths their

spirits "ghosts" hang aroung and have no where to go.

Seen them with my own two eyes.

To this day I won't stay in that hotel again.

If you are afraid of ghosts;

1. Always chose new hotels if you have an option.

2. Another idea is to have katoeys with you as ghosts are afraid of katoeys.

ummmm.......I thought you were straight, so, why are you with kateoy in the hotel room? . Nevermind..I don't wanna know.

[AmeriThai]

A good way of ridding yourself of any ghostly delusions is to take some really powerful hallucinogenic drug...once you realise how incredibly realistic an hallucination can be you'll give up any ideas about ghosts, and just do what I do...jibber along to the fairies at the bottom of my garden

Jibbering with garden fairies can do it every time. LOL!

For some people, powerful hallucinogenics can be so intense to some people they may seem more like visions that seem so real they can sometimes leave a significant or lasting impression. It's quite possible such an experience could instead leave an impression that just reinforces the idea ghosts may indeed be real. An induced hallucination probably wouldn’t be effective as a definitive method to disprove the existence of ghosts.

Although hallucinogenics have an effect on the mind's ability of perception, the way we normally ‘see’ things also involves the mind’s ability of perception. The difference is in the paths electro-chemicals take, triggering different areas of the brain. But both can be perceived as real. This leads to the thought of whether or not there’s more to reality than meets the eye.

Since every person, planet, star and galaxy contains the same kind of quantum properties, is it possible a person who is deceased on our physical realm could somehow manifest himself under certain circumstances from the level of quantum physics into a form we regard as ghosts? Sounds strange, but it might not be all that unthinkable.

The subject of ghosts was discussed on the Farang Pub in the Haunting thread. Here’s a link to a post I wrote there that gives 3 or 4 examples. No need to rewrite it again. Consider the post as PART 1.

Feel free to comment on it.

TRUE TALES OF HAUNTINGS

I’ll post PART 2 right here in the Ghosts thread a little later.

[wilko]

A good way of ridding yourself of any ghostly delusions is to take some really powerful hallucinogenic drug...once you realise how incredibly realistic an hallucination can be you'll give up any ideas about ghosts, and just do what I do...jibber along to the fairies at the bottom of my garden

Jibbering with garden fairies can do it every time. LOL!

For some people, powerful hallucinogenics can be so intense to some people they may seem more like visions that seem so real they can sometimes leave a significant or lasting impression. It's quite possible such an experience could instead leave an impression that just reinforces the idea ghosts may indeed be real. An induced hallucination probably wouldn’t be effective as a definitive method to disprove the existence of ghosts.

Although hallucinogenics have an effect on the mind's ability of perception, the way we normally ‘see’ things also involves the mind’s ability of perception. The difference is in the paths electro-chemicals take, triggering different areas of the brain. But both can be perceived as real. This leads to the thought of whether or not there’s more to reality than meets the eye.

Since every person, planet, star and galaxy contains the same kind of quantum properties, is it possible a person who is deceased on our physical realm could somehow manifest himself under certain circumstances from the level of quantum physics into a form we regard as ghosts? Sounds strange, but it might not be all that unthinkable.

The subject of ghosts was discussed on the Farang Pub in the Haunting thread. Here’s a link to a post I wrote there that gives 3 or 4 examples. No need to rewrite it again. Consider the post as PART 1.

Feel free to comment on it.

TRUE TALES OF HAUNTINGS

I’ll post PART 2 right here in the Ghosts thread a little later.

Do you consider this to be evidence that "ghosts" are the "spirits" of dead people whho have come to interact with us? Are they to be "feared"?

Do you believe that "seeing with my own 2 eyes" is evidence of concrete existence?

[AmeriThai]

Do you consider this to be evidence that "ghosts" are the "spirits" of dead people whho have come to interact with us? Are they to be "feared"?

Do you believe that "seeing with my own 2 eyes" is evidence of concrete existence?

To answer your questions:

1 - Possibly, but they can also be other things.

2 - Only if they bite too hard or try dragging you into the pit of doom. Otherwise, not necessarily.

3 - Not always. Sometimes you can misunderstand or be mistaken about something you see. However, there are lots of things you can't directly see that do indeed exist. Because you can't see such things, is that concrete evidence they don't exist?

[AlexLah]

I have never believed in it untill my father died.

I had dreams before he died and after and all details where confirmed by my mother and brothers.

so I know there is something after you die.

Alex

[meadish_sweetball]

Did neutrons and radioactivity and all those kind of things not exist until we found a way to measure them? If we find a way to detect ghosts will they suddenly exist only then?

Some people actually are convinced that phenomena start to exist if enough people believe in them.

Quantum physics suggest that the mere act of observation affects the object observed (the case in point being which of two possible paths an electron takes from point A to B ). When observed, the electron always chooses one of the two, but quantum physics suggest that if there is no observer, the electron can go from A to B without taking one of the two "possible" paths.)

Whether this conclusion is correct or not, I cannot say as I am not a quantum physicist.

Terry Pratchett toys with the idea in his novel "Small Gods", which is a pretty entertaining read if you have some time to kill.

[Gazza]

Quantum physics suggest that the mere act of observation affects the object observed (the case in point being which of two possible paths an electron takes from point A to B ). When observed, the electron always chooses one of the two, but quantum physics suggest that if there is no observer, the electron can go from A to B without taking one of the two "possible" paths.)

Whether this conclusion is correct or not, I cannot say as I am not a quantum physicist.

I recently saw a documentary film about something similar. When a child's cowboy doll named 'Woody' was observed it always lay in an innate state. But when not observed it was able to move from A to B without any assistance and also had the uncanny ability to mimic Tom Hanks' voice.

[John K]

Actually I have not seen a ghost since cable tv became the standard.

[AmeriThai]

Actually I have not seen a ghost since cable tv became the standard.

Yeah, I've noticed that as well. But I don't think those are quite the same kind of ghosts being discussed.

If you haven't yet read the link I posted, I invite you to do so. There may be a few writing mistakes, but the idea still comes across clear enough. With your own experience in dealing with certain aspects of the mnd, it'd be interesting to have you share your comments and views about it.

By the way, cool avatar!

Edited July 31, 2006 by AmeriThai

[justsignedin]

Since I posted this topic I have spoken to another friend who claims to have had ghostly experiences. Once again he is a good friend of mine and the topic was not initiated by myself, the conversation was initialy centred around his relationship with a ex girlfriend. The details don't really matter. He is a good friend who i trust, and like my other friend who told me of his experiences he is for the want of a better word ( because i am not a religious person ) inclined towards buddhism. So maybe it is something about belief or open mindedness which makes certain people more susceptible to these experiences. I don't think think think for onr minute in these two cases that it was drugs, a state of semi consciousness, nuetrons or fairies or animated wooden dolls which were responsible. Personally I am the eternal pessimist and sceptic and I don't believe i will ever see a ghost, but i do believe what two good friends have told me.

[AmeriThai]

Since I posted this topic I have spoken to another friend who claims to have had ghostly experiences. Once again he is a good friend of mine and the topic was not initiated by myself, the conversation was initialy centred around his relationship with a ex girlfriend. The details don't really matter. He is a good friend who i trust, and like my other friend who told me of his experiences he is for the want of a better word ( because i am not a religious person ) inclined towards buddhism. So maybe it is something about belief or open mindedness which makes certain people more susceptible to these experiences. I don't think think think for onr minute in these two cases that it was drugs, a state of semi consciousness, nuetrons or fairies or animated wooden dolls which were responsible. Personally I am the eternal pessimist and sceptic and I don't believe i will ever see a ghost, but i do believe what two good friends have told me.

"I don't think think think for onr minute in these two cases that it was drugs, a state of semi consciousness, nuetrons or fairies or animated wooden dolls which were responsible."

Those were some suggestions made by posters. Okay, I'm with you on the fairies, which seemed to be more of a humorous comment than to be taken serious. But how would you know those things are NOT possible alternative explanations? What opinion, theory, or speculation do you have about what ghosts are? Sheer imagination? An electro-chemical response in the brain? Etc.?

In your first post that started this thread you asked:

Have you ever spoke to a Thai about ghosts and then been half convinced by thier enthusiasm that they really do exist. or have you had any supernatural experience yourself. ??????

You asked if anyone has had a supernatural experience, and people have given replies.

But then in this post you say:

"Personally I am the eternal pessimist and sceptic and I don't believe i will ever see a ghost, but i do believe what two good friends have told me."

So you're an eternal pessimist and a skeptic. Nothing wrong with that. But you believe what your friends told you? Okay, you've lost me on that. How exactly do you manage to BELIEVE something that your skeptical and pessimistic about? That sounds like a contradiction. Are you saying you believe the sincerity of your friends, but you don't believe what they saw or experienced was probably something other than a ghost?

[wilko]

It has been demonstrated beyond dispute that we can’t trust our senses....all of them. What we see, or especially remember can be completely false, even though to the “observer” it can seem so real

Most premonitions are not discovered till after the fact....we are perfectly capable of constructing (or loosing) a memory to back up our premonition.

My reference to drugs is that it shows one how utterly convincing an hallucination can be and how unreliable our senses are.....even mental illness shows us how reality is such a fragile thing.

As for nuclear physics......we never saw atoms etc, we empirically worked out they were there.....we specifically did NOT use ours senses as we know them to be untrustworthy we used calculation and logic. If this is applied to “the unexplained” it usually will give a satisfactory solution. (see the “my-dog-has-4-legs” theory)

There are still many unexplained phenomena in day to day life but that does not mean we have to attach labels or banal explanations to them.

Many scientific theories are found to be wrong or inaccurate later on but they are the result of hundreds of years of sound thought built upon sound thought.

The sad thing about “ghosts” is they are a product of a lack of appreciation of what the human state is and our ability to experience the world around us......it is a restriction in the potentially immensely broad human mind.

[AlexLah]

Quote: or have you had any supernatural experience yourself. ??????

As said before yes I did and I am a real sceptic and never believed in spirits ore ghosts but cannot deny the facts.

This Randy guy look for proof but most of those things happen spontainously.

As it happened with me.

How can I know his time of death when I was not there. (I was in the plane).

How can I know what clothes he was wearing if I was not there. ( I was in SG)

How can I know what my brother told the nurse the day he died. (I was in SG)

We had no contact at that time he ( my brother) just told me please come back to Holland because I think Papa will die soon.

These things I asked my mother after the funeral and she was shocked and also surprised.

I told her her and she and confirmed those things.

He can tell there has never been any scientific proof and that might be true but I know what I have experienced and this cannot be explained by so called modern science.

You know 100 years back most people also thought the world was flat and the earth is the midlle of the universe.

Kind regards,

alex

Edited August 1, 2006 by AlexLah

[justsignedin]

Since I posted this topic I have spoken to another friend who claims to have had ghostly experiences. Once again he is a good friend of mine and the topic was not initiated by myself, the conversation was initialy centred around his relationship with a ex girlfriend. The details don't really matter. He is a good friend who i trust, and like my other friend who told me of his experiences he is for the want of a better word ( because i am not a religious person ) inclined towards buddhism. So maybe it is something about belief or open mindedness which makes certain people more susceptible to these experiences. I don't think think think for onr minute in these two cases that it was drugs, a state of semi consciousness, nuetrons or fairies or animated wooden dolls which were responsible. Personally I am the eternal pessimist and sceptic and I don't believe i will ever see a ghost, but i do believe what two good friends have told me.

"I don't think think think for onr minute in these two cases that it was drugs, a state of semi consciousness, nuetrons or fairies or animated wooden dolls which were responsible."

Those were some suggestions made by posters. Okay, I'm with you on the fairies, which seemed to be more of a humorous comment than to be taken serious. But how would you know those things are NOT possible alternative explanations? What opinion, theory, or speculation do you have about what ghosts are? Sheer imagination? An electro-chemical response in the brain? Etc.?

In your first post that started this thread you asked:

Have you ever spoke to a Thai about ghosts and then been half convinced by thier enthusiasm that they really do exist. or have you had any supernatural experience yourself. ??????

You asked if anyone has had a supernatural experience, and people have given replies.

But then in this post you say:

"Personally I am the eternal pessimist and sceptic and I don't believe i will ever see a ghost, but i do believe what two good friends have told me."

So you're an eternal pessimist and a skeptic. Nothing wrong with that. But you believe what your friends told you? Okay, you've lost me on that. How exactly do you manage to BELIEVE something that your skeptical and pessimistic about? That sounds like a contradiction. Are you saying you believe the sincerity of your friends, but you don't believe what they saw or experienced was probably something other than a ghost?

Basically what i am trying to say is that i do believe what my friends have told me but i still have to see it myself to believe it. I know that still sounds contradictary and someone will stick their foot out to trip me up, but that is the best way i can put it. I guess i'm stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Thank you everyone for your replies it has been a pleasure reading your posts.

Edited August 1, 2006 by justsignedin

[AmeriThai]

Basically what i am trying to say is that i do believe what my friends have told me but i still have to see it myself to believe it. I know that still sounds contradictary and someone will stick their foot out to trip me up, but that is the best way i can put it. I guess i'm stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Thank you everyone for your replies it has been a pleasure reading your posts.

That’s kind of like saying, “I believe there’s air and gravity, but I’m skeptical they exist until I actually see them.”

I understand what you’re saying though, but maybe you’re wording is off. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

If you were actually skeptical, you wouldn’t believe what your friends told you, unless of course you saw one yourself. More than likely, you’d think what your friends actually saw was an illusion, something mental, were mistaken, etc. But that doesn’t seem to be what your saying. If you believe what your friends told you is true, then you also believe ghosts might exist. Either way, there’s no real middle ground to it.

What it seems you’re trying to say is that as hard as it is to imagine a ghost being something real, you’re inclined to believe they are and actually seeing one for yourself would simply confirm that belief.

Is that pretty close to what you mean?

[unforgiven]

The Thais on the whole seem to have a strong beleif in the spirit world. Most claim to have had some sort of supernatural experience or sighting. Have you ever spoke to a Thai about ghosts and then been half convinced by thier enthusiasm that they really do exist. or have you had any supernatural experience yourself. ??????

not personaly but my girl is really paranoid of them

[rainman]

i record all phone conversations of my business, including those of myself and my employees and on one of them i have the voice of my dad (who passed away about 10 years ago) when the sound is turned up really loud. you can clearly hear full sentences of things that only he and those close to him knew. i know, it does sound like a scene from 'the 6th sense' movie.

i'm not the one who goes running around with it and showing it to everyone, in fact there are less than a handful of people who have heard it but i can't find any other explanation for it.

[wilko]

i record all phone conversations of my business, including those of myself and my employees and on one of them i have the voice of my dad (who passed away about 10 years ago) when the sound is turned up really loud. you can clearly hear full sentences of things that only he and those close to him knew. i know, it does sound like a scene from 'the 6th sense' movie.

i'm not the one who goes running around with it and showing it to everyone, in fact there are less than a handful of people who have heard it but i can't find any other explanation for it.

[rainman]

i'm sorry i can't offer you a ghost with a knife behind the shower curtain