tutsiwarrior Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 I'm looking at a proposition to fund a business...USD10000 up front for a bar/restaurant business...bar/restaurant during the day with falang food and a bar at night with some girls...a good tourist area. my business partner is knowlegeable and it is in her best interest that we get the enterprize off the ground... we're looking at a place not extreme like Pattaya but not tame like Hua Hin. I said to the partner that I can see the set up and initial running expenses (no return on the investment for at least 6 months or so) but what about incidentals?...like local mafia and the cops? The sleaze element can break a well thought out business...she said that she could handle that aspect with her present contacts... this is a big risk but if it comes off well (the business partner is a smart cookie and has been in the business for 10 years) there is some money to be made....I'm not wanting to get rich, maybe just about USD1000 per month income...preferably administered by a third party accountant... what can the learned assembly advise? (btw, USD10000 is something that I can afford to walk away from...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laxman1960 Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 I'm looking at a proposition to fund a business...USD10000 up front for a bar/restaurant business...bar/restaurant during the day with falang food and a bar at night with some girls...a good tourist area. my business partner is knowlegeable and it is in her best interest that we get the enterprize off the ground...we're looking at a place not extreme like Pattaya but not tame like Hua Hin. I said to the partner that I can see the set up and initial running expenses (no return on the investment for at least 6 months or so) but what about incidentals?...like local mafia and the cops? The sleaze element can break a well thought out business...she said that she could handle that aspect with her present contacts... this is a big risk but if it comes off well (the business partner is a smart cookie and has been in the business for 10 years) there is some money to be made....I'm not wanting to get rich, maybe just about USD1000 per month income...preferably administered by a third party accountant... what can the learned assembly advise? (btw, USD10000 is something that I can afford to walk away from...) I am not sure you can get too much of a place for 10,000 USD which is about 380,000 Baht right now. Cheapest beer bars I have seen advertised on Sunbelt are around 400,000 to 500,000 Baht and I don't believe any of them were restaurants. And that is just the purchase price. Best of luck and I recommend you speak to the folks at Sunbelt Asia who are sponsors of the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
listenup Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Location, location, location. If you get this right, with your budget, It would be worth a go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunbeltAsia Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 ?...like local mafia and the cops? The sleaze element can break a well thought out business...she said that she could handle that aspect with her present contacts... This would be 2,000 Baht max for security. As for 'mafia" any bar owner I ever talked to, will laugh and say it is urban myth in Thailand. Never have heard one case of it happening. ....I'm not wanting to get rich, maybe just about USD1000 per month income... Your expectations are too high in my opinion. $1,000 per month would be a very high ROI for a $10,000 investment. Norm would be more like $350 per month and that would be a well manage bar. The odds of you losing money are high unless you have a good location. The top locations are making net 25,000 per month but they invested a good sum to get that location. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heng Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 (edited) . Edited July 17, 2006 by Heng Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiakaha Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Although I have zero experience in the hospitality industry, I have always thought that if one were to enter into a bar/restaurant endeavour in LOS, then one of your overriding pre-requisite thoughts should be... "what will be my point of difference over the countless numbers of other bars/restaurants" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~G~ Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 preferably administered by a third party accountant... What does this mean? That you have trust problem? In that case, I don't see how an accountant will help you. In this kind of business some of the income can very well go straight to your partner's pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p_brownstone Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 I'm looking at a proposition to fund a business...USD10000 up front for a bar/restaurant business...bar/restaurant during the day with falang food and a bar at night with some girls...a good tourist area Not a flame, OK Tutsi. Restaurant and Bar –, fine, but a Bar with Girls??. Have you thought this through – discussed it with your wife for example? From your other Posts you obviously have a nice family, and doubtless some standing, some respect, in your local Community here in Thailand – how would they feel about you, how would the local perception of you change if you started to earn money by pimping their fellow Thais’? I have absolutely no doubts as to the reaction of my family and friends should it become known that I was even contemplating such an “investment”. Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khun Jean Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 This would be 2,000 Baht max for security. As for 'mafia" any bar owner I ever talked to, will laugh and say it is urban myth in Thailand. Never have heard one case of it happening. Ok, now my confidence in the one who says this is gone. NEVER heard of it? To who goes the 2000 baht protection money? Is it to protect you from jail, because running an illegal bar with prostitution? Or you can stay open a little later, or is it a necessity to stay open. If it is the last, you can call them mafia. The whole concept of protection money is mafia. If you do nothing wrong protect from WHAT? Try stop paying it and see what happens. Urban myth? It is almost the basic social structure of Thailand. They will not bother you, but if you bother them even in a very small way they will come out. Keep handing out money and free drinks if you want to stay open. Sure it not happens in all places, but to state it is an urban myth is just being ignorant. Kanchanaburi comes to mind.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunbeltAsia Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Ok, now my confidence in the one who says this is gone. NEVER heard of it? Heard of it? Yes of course but not one time was it ever true. Always was just urban myth. I mean the "Russian" mafia, "Italian" mafia, 'Thai" mafia all was urban myth in Thailand in ref to bars. Stickman also did a report on this several years ago. http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/Weekly/weekly188.htm By the way the case he talked about in Ko Tao. I knew this guy, he had invested in a bar with a Thai guy. He had no lease, no company, no work permit, had paid no tax. Had gotten his money back and had doubled it over a 4 year period. He thought the Thai guy did no work and wanted to kick him out. Stupid move as he did not own anything in the bar. The people that showed up did not have guns but did point out, it was best that he left. He was lucky he had gotten his $ back a long time before. I don't know too many people in their own country would give $50,000 to someone with no agreement, no shares or no lease in their name. Only in Thailand! An American that could of own the bar 100% under Amity, but had no clue at that time. To who goes the 2000 baht protection money? Police Is it to protect you from jail, because running an illegal bar with prostitution? Or you can stay open a little later, or is it a necessity to stay open. If it is the last, you can call them mafia. The whole concept of protection money is mafia. If you do nothing wrong protect from WHAT? It can be to allow dancing, to allow perhaps a jukebox, to allow maybe a pool table, to allow longer hours, to allow hostess to sit with the men. All of these are licenses are required and with 2,000 Baht, they are overlooked for that month. Sometimes it can be 5,000 or 8,000 Baht. Just depends how many licenses were required and how big the place is. Try stop paying it and see what happens.Urban myth? It is almost the basic social structure of Thailand. They will not bother you, but if you bother them even in a very small way they will come out. Keep handing out money and free drinks if you want to stay open. Sure it not happens in all places, but to state it is an urban myth is just being ignorant. Kanchanaburi comes to mind.... Police as being security.. yes we even pay 2,000 Baht at one of our subway shops to get 24 hour security. Its cheaper than paying a security guard. We have all the licenses required but rather than having someone getting a Bj in the restroom, it pays to have a policeman pull up on his bike to keep it a family restaurant. Mafia, no I have never seen it to be true in the bar business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterjackson Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Hey the business partner is a smart cookie and has been in the business for 10 years I would be immediately sceptical if the above was true. Why would they need an investor with $ 10k, surely a smart cookie with so much experience would have either saved this much over 10 years or at least have some other contacts whom could be propositioned for the money. I would definately treat as a case of 'buyer beware'. Kind regards Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldAsiaHand Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Heythe business partner is a smart cookie and has been in the business for 10 years I would be immediately sceptical if the above was true. Why would they need an investor with $ 10k, surely a smart cookie with so much experience would have either saved this much over 10 years or at least have some other contacts whom could be propositioned for the money. I would definately treat as a case of 'buyer beware'. While this is all certainly true, I would also point back to another good reason to be sceptical that was raised in a much earlier post in the thread: the amount involved is too small to be credible for the claimed purpose. All in all, if it walks like a duck, yada yada yada....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khun Jean Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 (edited) Ok, now my confidence in the one who says this is gone. NEVER heard of it? Heard of it? Yes of course but not one time was it ever true. Always was just urban myth. I mean the "Russian" mafia, "Italian" mafia, 'Thai" mafia all was urban myth in Thailand in ref to bars. Stickman also did a report on this several years ago. http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/Weekly/weekly188.htm Stickman as a reference. That is a good one. To who goes the 2000 baht protection money? Police The worst kind! To protect and serve in a Thai way. Is it to protect you from jail, because running an illegal bar with prostitution? Or you can stay open a little later, or is it a necessity to stay open. If it is the last, you can call them mafia. The whole concept of protection money is mafia. If you do nothing wrong protect from WHAT? It can be to allow dancing, to allow perhaps a jukebox, to allow maybe a pool table, to allow longer hours, to allow hostess to sit with the men. All of these are licenses are required and with 2,000 Baht, they are overlooked for that month. Sometimes it can be 5,000 or 8,000 Baht. Just depends how many licenses were required and how big the place is. And sometimes these licences are not obtainable at all! Overlooked until someone else is the 'big guy', or another 'crack down' is ordered or until more money is needed. When you start on this road it will never end. First it was 2000 max. (post #4). It already went up to 8000 baht a month. Where will it end? In my opinion not the best way to do business. Try stop paying it and see what happens. Urban myth? It is almost the basic social structure of Thailand. They will not bother you, but if you bother them even in a very small way they will come out. Keep handing out money and free drinks if you want to stay open. Sure it not happens in all places, but to state it is an urban myth is just being ignorant. Kanchanaburi comes to mind.... Police as being security.. yes we even pay 2,000 Baht at one of our subway shops to get 24 hour security. Its cheaper than paying a security guard. We have all the licenses required but rather than having someone getting a Bj in the restroom, it pays to have a policeman pull up on his bike to keep it a family restaurant. Mafia, no I have never seen it to be true in the bar business. Maybe mafia is as a too big word. Better call them corrupt officials or petty thieves. If you pay 2000 baht a month, you are part of the problem and actively supporting corruption and mafia like operations. I know this is Thailand and this is the way it works. I think paying a little bit more for a real security guard would be the proper way of doing it, or will you then have to pay both?. For some this paying to the police is acceptable and a part of doing business. Just don't start complaining when that measly 2000 baht is not enough any more. For me it is complete unacceptable, i had a business, a small one. The first time this was casually mentioned i not even had to think about it. The business was just something for me to gain some experience in the 'thai way' and red tape involved. But when you have to start paying 'protection' money even when everything is 100% legal it starts to be a hassle and i just stopped. If on the other hand you have a lot of money in it or even doing something illegal (even if it is 'only' a little bit illegal, it is still illegal) , the choices are limited and you would probably have to accept everything. Edited July 17, 2006 by Khun Jean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon43 Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Hi Tutsiwarrior - one of the problems that I had was not the 'teamoney' issue. I understood that this is Thailand and if you want to run that sort of business with the minimum of hassle, then you need to pay teamoney, (especially if all the other bars in the building are paying it!). My issue was playing music. You need a licence to play music and that is nothing to do with the police. You get the licence from the record companies. However, you need a licence from each of the record companies whose artists music you play in your bar. Additionally, you need to buy licences to play 'farang' music. We had about 5 or 6 licence stickers in our bar, and these had to be paid for and renewed every few months. Quite an expense! What happened if you didn't have a licence to play the music that was 'on-air'? The record company checked most weeks and if they found that you were not licenced, then they confiscated all your audio equipment!! True, because I saw it happen to other bars in the building! Simon PS - As for 'pimping' Thai ladies and the shame of it on my Thai inlaws - all I can say is that I had a very hard time stopping the inlaws from sending pretty lady after pretty lady, (and some not so pretty) from the local moobahn to work in our bar!! Anyway, that bar is closed now, but I'll wait to be flamed re that last comment...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerryk Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 There are a lot of bars available in Chiang Mai for 200,000 baht to 300,000 baht. The monthly rent is from 8000 to 10,000 baht. The payoff for staying open an extra hour is from 500 to 1000 baht a week the last I heard. The only problem with these bars is they have no customers. I would think you would lose about 5000 baht per month. There are nice bars some with even guest houses attached but they cost more money and the rent is much higher. These bars have a few customers but the sales price and rent is so high you might lose even more money per month than the less expensive places. My estimate is a loss of 10,000 baht per month. Then there are the busy bars and they too are for sale but at a very high price and a big chunk of money for rent. My estimate is a loss of 20,000 baht per month. To sum up you loose a lot less in the less inexpensive bar with no customers than the expensive bar with a lot of customers. Reminds me of my first tour of the New York Yacht club. The club manager pointed out the dock with the bankers yachts and then the dock with the brokers yachts. I asked him where the customers of the bankers and brokers kept their yachts and he just laughed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunbeltAsia Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 And sometimes these licences are not obtainable at all! Overlooked until someone else is the 'big guy', or another 'crack down' is ordered or until more money is needed. When you start on this road it will never end. First it was 2000 max. (post #4). It already went up to 8000 baht a month. Where will it end? In my opinion not the best way to do business. One thing that most bar owners say "the police are good police' Heard this more than once. When I first question this " good police? " it was explained.. "They are not greedy." They don't go from 2K to 8K overnight. It takes them years to go from 2K to 3k. What the payment is set at, its what it stays at. Most Go Go Bars are around 8K. If you pay 2000 baht a month, you are part of the problem and actively supporting corruption and mafia like operations. I know this is Thailand and this is the way it works. I think paying a little bit more for a real security guard would be the proper way of doing it, or will you then have to pay both?. Let me explain. It's not under the table. It is an official receipt. We have an authorized red police box (looks like a mailbox) outside our back door. The policeman must fill out a timecard when they stopped by. It is similar to the US when you hire a policeman to work as a security guard. They have the police uniform and gun, the policeman is working thru the police dept overtime and you pay $40.00 an hour. That policeman is not corrupt who works in your store. A policeman has more credibility than a security guard. In Thailand in fact it is cheaper than a security guard to use the police in an official hire thru the headquarters. We had a problem, went to the police to ask for the cost of having someone check on the bathrooms. 2000 Bht( $50.00) for 24 hour security every hour, 7 days a week for one month. That’s the price for the last 3 years and we are happy to pay it. 5 years ago I was told by the CEO of CP Group, do everything by the book so you never have to look over your shoulder. Once they get a hook in you, it never ends. I have found this to be good advice to live by as we never had one problem. Still I have seen a number of bar owners pay a security fee, and it seems they have found this cost of the “hook” to be a very nominal price. Some have felt one baht to be too much. A guy that owned the "SharK" in Phuket, refused to pay one baht. He made net 70 million a year and was run out of town. If you have a disco, you must know you have to pay the "hook" or lose. That is the way it is. A dancing license is very hard to get since 1965( must be a hotel with over 100 rooms to obtain one now) Stickman as a reference. That is a good one. You might not like his writing but I have found him to be a straight shooter. The e-mails from bar owners opinions about no mafia were legit. I'll bet on it. My dealings with bar owners have been the same, zero mafia involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRay Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 the business partner is a smart cookie and has been in the business for 10 years) there is some money to be made Yes by some guys that find other guys to invest 10000 Dollar in a bar. Find 2 a year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khun Jean Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 (edited) I hope i not bother you too much, but what you say is a little blurry. first you commented this To who goes the 2000 baht protection money? Police Is it to protect you from jail, because running an illegal bar with prostitution? Or you can stay open a little later, or is it a necessity to stay open. If it is the last, you can call them mafia. The whole concept of protection money is mafia. If you do nothing wrong protect from WHAT? It can be to allow dancing, to allow perhaps a jukebox, to allow maybe a pool table, to allow longer hours, to allow hostess to sit with the men. All of these are licenses are required and with 2,000 Baht, they are overlooked for that month. Sometimes it can be 5,000 or 8,000 Baht. Just depends how many licenses were required and how big the place is. And a few messages later: And sometimes these licences are not obtainable at all! Overlooked until someone else is the 'big guy', or another 'crack down' is ordered or until more money is needed. When you start on this road it will never end. First it was 2000 max. (post #4). It already went up to 8000 baht a month. Where will it end? In my opinion not the best way to do business. One thing that most bar owners say "the police are good police' Heard this more than once. When I first question this " good police? " it was explained.. "They are not greedy." They don't go from 2K to 8K overnight. It takes them years to go from 2K to 3k. What the payment is set at, its what it stays at. Most Go Go Bars are around 8K. If you pay 2000 baht a month, you are part of the problem and actively supporting corruption and mafia like operations. I know this is Thailand and this is the way it works. I think paying a little bit more for a real security guard would be the proper way of doing it, or will you then have to pay both?. Let me explain. It's not under the table. It is an official receipt. We have an authorized red police box (looks like a mailbox) outside our back door. The policeman must fill out a timecard when they stopped by. ..... Big jump from "to allow dancing etc." and "They are not greedy" to "It is an official receipt". The last part i have no problem with. It is a good solution. The big problem is what you call the 'hook'. It not happens to many times when you have a bar which barely makes money. If the bar or any other business for that matter becomes a competitor or starts to make good money the hooks are unavoidable. I think you mixed both situations (official police service and the 'hook') unintentionally. Now it is not clear anymore so it might be better to rewrite those statement. What are your views to the following points? Protection (in the good sense of the word) A official security service of the police. Protection (in the bad sense) or 'hooks'Allowing you to bend the law (also police or other officials)Alternative 'protection' actually should be called threats (people with small brains that think they are powerfull, the local 'big shot', the competitors messenger, etc..) Edited July 17, 2006 by Khun Jean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heng Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Yeah, there has been some furious backtracking on this thread. But what would you expect from a marketing "guru" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerryk Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 The cops are not a problem in Thailand. Google Clinton Plaza and the same thing happened to a large bar area in Chiang Mai. Odds of this happening in Nana Plaza? Or that other bar complex in Bangkok which just turned bar free? Ya pays your money and you takes your chances. Me thinks there will be more problems telling the wife’s relatives that there are no more jobs left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tutsiwarrior Posted July 17, 2006 Author Share Posted July 17, 2006 in an attempt to clarify, the bar is not in Thailand (oooohhhh soba...not thai related) but in a tourist area and I had the opportunity to check out the locale and it looks peaceful, but as a bloody minded individual I said 'what if?' SE Asian rules apply everywhere. The would be business partner presently runs a bar in the area and is a local. It seems to me that the risk would be the same in Pattaya or anywhere else (about > 50% of failure) like I said...USD10K I can walk away from...the benefits if successful then would considerably lessen the aggravation load with my present employment (mamas don't ever raise your kids to be engineers...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tutsiwarrior Posted July 17, 2006 Author Share Posted July 17, 2006 I'm looking at a proposition to fund a business...USD10000 up front for a bar/restaurant business...bar/restaurant during the day with falang food and a bar at night with some girls...a good tourist area Not a flame, OK Tutsi. Restaurant and Bar –, fine, but a Bar with Girls??. Have you thought this through – discussed it with your wife for example? From your other Posts you obviously have a nice family, and doubtless some standing, some respect, in your local Community here in Thailand – how would they feel about you, how would the local perception of you change if you started to earn money by pimping their fellow Thais’? I have absolutely no doubts as to the reaction of my family and friends should it become known that I was even contemplating such an “investment”. Patrick thanks to all that are concerned but I would do this on faith that the partner would be looking out for our mutual best interests...I would do this 'on the side' and not involve my thai family. The benefits resulting of course would be shared by all. maybe I'm blinded by love (see my post elsewhere about Vung Tau)...I've hardly been able to eat in the past 2 days...but it is my suggestion, not hers... dare to struggle...dare to win... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunbeltAsia Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 My mistake for the confusion. Sorry. We pay 2,000 Baht per month to the police. We have a red mail box, that the policeman must mark a timesheet when he stops by. The red mail box is at Suk 7/1 if anyone cares to see what it looks like. This of course is not corruption Is it corruption, for a beer bar owner to pay money? ( For the record, never heard of a open-air beer bar paying more than a couple thousand baht per month while regular bars( including go go bars) depending on the size pay around 5,000-8,000 per month) What do they get for their money? They do get security if a customer acts up. They also don't get every license scrutinized if they have it or not( most do not have every license). Some would say, yes and some would say no it’s not corruption as they would have to pay more to hire a security guard. Depends on your view. As a hypothetical example when MOS was still open and they had all the licenses. Is it corruption by the Police if the owner was asked to pay or they would get a drug raid on a Saturday night? Was it corruption by the disco owner to pay or just good business sense? By the way there is a big difference between a nightclub disco and a bar. A disco/nightclub is much more in the limelight and if you are going in this business, you must know this. I feel their is corruption by the police and no corruption by the owner. Is it corruption for an after-hours club to pay 100,000 Baht per month to stay open till 6 a.m.? This is point blank clear... corruption by both the police and the bar owner. Greed on both parties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~G~ Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 What do they get for their money? They do get security if a customer acts up. They also don't get every license scrutinized if they have it or not. Some would say, yes and some would say no it’s not corruption as I would have to pay more to hire a security guard. Depends on your view. Again you are confusing both issues. Let's take it one step at a time. They do get security if a customer acts up. This was the first issue. No need to bring it up again. They also don't get every license scrutinized if they have it or not. This is the second issue. I will be very surprised if it is legal for police to be paid in order to avoid checking licenses. Their job is to check the licenses, not to avoid checking them. By skipping the check they act against the interest of their employer. Or do they give official receipts here as well? There is only one name for it and this is Corruption. Some would say, yes and some would say no it’s not corruption as I would have to pay more to hire a security guard. Depends on your view. Nonsense. Again you are bringing in the first issue of Protection as an excuse for the second issue of Corruption. A security guard has nothing to do with Licenses that are required by the Thai law. It is quite embarassing that this needs to be spelled out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunbeltAsia Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 This is the second issue. I will be very surprised if it is legal for police to be paid in order to avoid checking licenses. Their job is to check the licenses, not to avoid checking them. By skipping the check they act against the interest of their employer. Or do they give official receipts here as well? There is only one name for it and this is Corruption. I myself agree. In my opinion, its corruption but also stated that others may feel different. I've talked to a number of bar owners, of course they are justifying it but they do not feel it is corruption. "It is cheaper than a security guard" Just like when someone is stopped by the police and they did nothing wrong. They pay 100 Baht and feel this is a sucharge for driving on the streets in Thailand. They feel it is not corruption as the police are underpaid and have to eat. I feel though its corruption. Both cases I think the people take the view, its small money. 'Mai Pen Rai" A clear cut case of corruption an after hours barowner who paid 100,000 Baht per month. " I haven't killed anyone. I help the tourism in Thailand" was his feeling, why this was ok to pay the police this amount to stay open till 6 a.m. He of course helped himself as well by making a net million Baht a month. Some would say, yes and some would say no it’s not corruption as I would have to pay more to hire a security guard. Depends on your view.Nonsense. Again you are bringing in the first issue of Protection as an excuse for the second issue of Corruption. A security guard has nothing to do with Licenses that are required by the Thai law. It is quite embarassing that this needs to be spelled out. See above. My view is different than what some bar owners views are. Its corruption if they did not have the license is my view and it is corruption by the police. But I don’t own any bars so it don’t matter what my view is. I do feel though, if they have the license then it’s not corruption by the bar owner and its corruption by the police. That’s my own view for what its worth. Others feel different and have stated why in their mind, its not corruption. We both know that is justification so they can feel they are doing the right thing but try to convince the bar owner why their view is wrong and its not security. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonfruit Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 Sunbelts owner is obviously no longer posting on here. Such a shame as he was very informatiive usually, and not dragged into these arguments. Bottom line in this thread is, if you believe it can make you some money, you have done the sums, and you feel you can trust your partner, then you gotta give it a shot. Best of luck with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunbeltAsia Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Sunbelts owner is obviously no longer posting on here.Such a shame as he was very informatiive usually, and not dragged into these arguments. Hi Moonfruit, It is indeed me. Between meetings, calls from clients and 80 employees asking questions, I do post on Thai visa. As you can see not always, what I'm thinking is conveyed, while I’m doing this. My fault for the misunderstanding and sincerely apologize for any confusion of my opinion and what bar owners opinions are. The bottom line to sum this up. I don't feel any payment is made to any mafia involved in Bars. Every bar owner I have spoken to, have not been involved with any payment to any mafia. Payments are made to the police by bar owners. I do feel this is corruption. Any bar owner I ever talked to, felt this was not corruption, but it was "security" and had no problem with it. Payments for a beer bar is around 2,000 Baht to the Police. A regular bar can be from 2,000 Baht to 8,000 Baht per month. A nightclub can be much higher +++ After hours bar is 100,000 Baht per month Greg Lange Managing Director Sunbelt Asia Co., Ltd www.sunbeltasiagroup.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMA_FARANG Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 I'm looking at a proposition to fund a business...USD10000 up front for a bar/restaurant business...bar/restaurant during the day with falang food and a bar at night with some girls...a good tourist area. my business partner is knowlegeable and it is in her best interest that we get the enterprize off the ground...we're looking at a place not extreme like Pattaya but not tame like Hua Hin. I said to the partner that I can see the set up and initial running expenses (no return on the investment for at least 6 months or so) but what about incidentals?...like local mafia and the cops? The sleaze element can break a well thought out business...she said that she could handle that aspect with her present contacts... this is a big risk but if it comes off well (the business partner is a smart cookie and has been in the business for 10 years) there is some money to be made....I'm not wanting to get rich, maybe just about USD1000 per month income...preferably administered by a third party accountant... what can the learned assembly advise? (btw, USD10000 is something that I can afford to walk away from...) 1. Quote "(btw, USD10000 is something that I can afford to walk away from...)". If that is true be prepared to walk away. 2. Question: How many shots (singles) do you get from a fifth of Johnny Walker? What do you have to charge to make a 50% profit on the fifth? 3. Rule of thumb: The way to make a small amount of money in Thailand is to put a lot of money into a bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donx Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 3. Rule of thumb: The way to make a small amount of money in Thailand is to put a lot of money into a bar. You are forgetting that the OP isn't investing this money in Thailand but in HCMC if I understood his vague reference correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farangsay Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 (edited) 3. Rule of thumb: The way to make a small amount of money in Thailand is to put a lot of money into a bar. You are forgetting that the OP isn't investing this money in Thailand but in HCMC if I understood his vague reference correctly. OK , sorry but , IMHO this is an acronym too far. I read this , and read what the OP wrote and I still can't imagine <deleted> HCMC might mean. BTW LOL and all Edited July 20, 2006 by farangsay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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