Sheffield premium service visa centre

[7by7]

7by7 - a couple of points :-

1. You say your friends and family couldn't pass the driving test theory. Try giving them the LITUK test and I'll have a sporting bet with you that they will do even worse.

You are right. very few Brits could pass the test without studying for it first.

Mainly because although they once learned a lot, if not all, of it in school, they have now forgotten most of it. Obviously a Brit who once knew this stuff would find it easier to study, or rather revise, for the test than someone who has never learned it before.

2. You say "If passing it by guessing is so easy; I have to wonder why your wife hasn't yet done so." Now either you are incredibly stupid or just being disingenuous. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say it is the latter. You know as well as I do that I did NOT say the test could be easily passed just by guessing. I said it can be a factor in passing the test. I listed 6 factors - 1 of which is guessing. I then went on to illustrate how guessing CAN MAKE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PASSING AND FAILING

I did, deliberately, turn your words against you to prove a point.

I am saying that relying on guessing to get a pass is like relying on winning the lottery to fund your retirement; it may work, but probably wont.

Don't believe me? Ask any teacher.

But this is getting nowhere; like your belief that your wife should have been exempt from the TB test, you are not going to change your mind on this. I certainly am not going to change mine.

The last word is yours, if you want it; I have nothing to add to what I have already said.

[MaprangHolmes]

After reading the book and helping my wife understand some of the points in the book I passed every online test that I done so with a little bit of studying I am sure that nearly every person from this county would pass this test. Which in the end it all boils down to being properly papered the same goes for any exam. I would not have passed my degree without studying for it and the same goes with this test and any other that your wife may take.

[durhamboy]

After reading the book and helping my wife understand some of the points in the book I passed every online test that I done so with a little bit of studying I am sure that nearly every person from this county would pass this test. Which in the end it all boils down to being properly papered the same goes for any exam. I would not have passed my degree without studying for it and the same goes with this test and any other that your wife may take.

"...I passed every online test that I done......"

"...it all boils down to being properly papered......"

Mmmmm good job you didn't have to write your answers to the tests you did isn't it?

So if you went to live in Thailand then you would have problem in passing an equivalent "Life in Thailand" test in Thai script with a little study. And if by some chance that you actually failed it you would have no problem with being asked to leave the country.

[7by7]

I know I said I'd give you the last word, durhamboy, but you have raised a point which needs addressing:

<snip>
So if you went to live in Thailand then you would have problem in passing an equivalent "Life in Thailand" test in Thai script with a little study. And if by some chance that you actually failed it you would have no problem with being asked to leave the country.

I'm not sure if there is a language requirement for Thai PR (the equivalent of UK ILR) or not; but if there is then I would have to accept that I had to pass it.

Of course, Thai PR is a hell of a lot more difficult to get than UK ILR, for starters only 100 people from each nationality are allowed to apply each year.

There is a language requirement for Thai citizenship; and it's a lot harder than the LitUK test!

Most westerners who live in Thailand with their Thai partner do so with non immigrant visas, where they have to report every 90 days to show that they have enough money to be allowed to continue to live there.

If living in Thailand as the spouse of a Thai citizen the income required is 40,000 baht per month; if that Thai spouse predeceases you then you have to change to a retirement visa and the required amount instantly goes up to 60,000 baht per month.

If you can't satisfy this financial requirement, you have to leave.

We complain, rightly so, about the high UK financial requirement; but 40,000 baht a month compared to the cost of living in Thailand and the average Thai wage is a fortune!

I know there are ways of getting around the system, but it seems that the Thai government want to close these loopholes, e.g. making border runs more difficult, and there have been several posts on TV over the years from people who have retired in Thailand and due to the falling pound they are now struggling to meet this income requirement from their UK pension.

Under the new UK rules, the Thai, or any other non EEA national, spouse of a British citizen can apply for British citizenship after living in the UK for just 5 years, under the old rules it's just three!

Essentially all they have to do for this, provided they meet the financial requirement for FLR and then ILR, is study for and pass a test.

The chances of the British spouse of a Thai getting Thai citizenship is very remote; for a start they need PR; see above for how difficult that is!

So, who has it better; a Thai married to a Brit and living in the UK who, with some study and the passing of a test, can become a British citizen after 5 (or 3) years; or a Brit married to a Thai living in Thailand who has to report every 90 days to prove they have enough money to be allowed to stay for another 90 days and whose chances of getting PR, let alone ever becoming a Thai citizen, are next to zero?

Edited September 21, 2014 by 7by7

[MaprangHolmes]

If I wanted to stay in Thailand and they where the rules for which you had to follow to stay there, than I would learn how to read Thai and pass the test, if I failed it I would take it again. If at the end of it I had to leave the country then that would have been my fault, for not passing the required test. My wife came to the UK knowing she had to pass this test and that is what she has done, she has never complained once about it being hard. She just got on with it.

[durhamboy]

7by7 you ask me "So, who has it better; a Thai married to a Brit and living in the UK who, with some study and the passing of a test, can become a British citizen after 5 (or 3) years; or a Brit married to a Thai living in Thailand who has to report every 90 days to prove they have enough money to be allowed to stay for another 90 days and whose chances of getting PR, let alone ever becoming a Thai citizen, are next to zero?"

In my opinion the Brit married to a Thai and living in Thailand has it better under the respective immigration laws. I do not know of one case where a Brit has had to leave his/her family in Thailand - do you? I read many cases in this forum where the Brit is unable to take his/her Thai family to the UK because they do not meet income requirements. Sometimes they even have great difficulty in getting permission for a simple visit visa to the UK.

In Thailand it is my understanding that income requirements can be quite easily circumvented by making a quick loan and depositing the money in a Thai bank account for a few days. This is normally done through a lawyer. Never did it myself but heard a lot of people talk about it.

Despite all this, it is not really relevant what rules Thailand have. What is relevant is whether our own immigration rules are fair. In my opinion, for many reasons that I have posted at length in other topics, they are not.

Btw, I was going to let you have the last word on this - mainly because, in my opinion, you were doing such a good job of making a fool of yourself without the need for any help from me. So one last point - not only did I say that my wife should be exempt from the TB test I said EVERYONE applying for a UK settlement visa from Thailand should be exempt - yet another example of you being disingenuous.

[durhamboy]

If I wanted to stay in Thailand and they where the rules for which you had to follow to stay there, than I would learn how to read Thai and pass the test, if I failed it I would take it again. If at the end of it I had to leave the country then that would have been my fault, for not passing the required test. My wife came to the UK knowing she had to pass this test and that is what she has done, she has never complained once about it being hard. She just got on with it.

Judging from the standard of your English (yet another 2 errors above which I won't bother explaining to you) you would not have an ice cream's chance in hell of passing a Thai test.

[7by7]

I did say that there were ways of getting around 90 day reporting; how legal your suggestion is, I don't know.

If you check the archives of this forum you will find, as I said before, cases where Brits, and other nationalities, living in Thailand are in difficulties over staying due to the devaluation of their pensions against the baht.

But the fact you cannot deny is that it is a lot easier for a Thai to get UK ILR and then British citizenship than it is for a Brit to get Thai PR and then Thai citizenship.

Without at least PR, any Brit, or other foreigner, living in Thailand is subject to 90 day reporting, fluctuations in exchange rates and the whim of the Thai government should they decide to change the rules.

Btw, I was going to let you have the last word on this - mainly because, in my opinion, you were doing such a good job of making a fool of yourself without the need for any help from me. So one last point - not only did I say that my wife should be exempt from the TB test I said EVERYONE applying for a UK settlement visa from Thailand should be exempt - yet another example of you being disingenuous.

But you did not say, despite being asked several times, why you thought everyone else from every other country should not be exempt, neither did you say why you thought applicants in other categories, e.g. students, from Thailand should not be exempt.

In other words, if it effects you and your wife you call it unfair, but if effects other people you don't care.

The rules, whether it be TB tests or KOLL or anything else, are the same for all; as they should be, otherwise they would be unfair.

I assume you will accept that the majority of family migrants coming to the UK originate form South Asia; that is from countries which, like Thailand, do not use Roman script.

These migrants manage to satisfy KOLL, I'm sure that with some work and application your wife will, too.

As I have said before; with the introduction of KOLL, the UK was catching up on other countries. For example, I read in a biography of Humphrey Bogart that between takes on the set of Casablanca he helped Ingrid Bergman study for the American equivalent.

In case you don't know, that was in 1941!

If you think we Brits have it hard, you should read some of the posts in this forum from our American and Australian friends; then be thankful that you are neither of those nationalities!

I see you have resorted to petty insults rather than deal with MaprangHolmes points!

What his English standard has to do with his ability to pass a test in the Thai language, only you know.

You should also check the spelling and grammar in your own posts before criticising that of others.

[MaprangHolmes]

Are you really trying to say that people should not be tested for Tuberculosis if they want to settle in the UK. Do you not realise that TB was all almost wiped out in the 1970's and started to make a come back in the 1980's. It makes perfect sense to screen anyone wanting to come here to settle for TB.

You want to criticise my use of English, however it is good enough to help my wife get through her life in the UK test with a score of 23/24. May be if you spent more of your time and effort helping your wife to understand the life in the UK book and less time complaining on here then she may stand a better chance of passing it.

[durhamboy]

7by7 I was feeling a bit guilty at having hijacked this thread but you really take the biscuit. So far you have introduced TB, South Asia and the English Driving Test into a thread about the Sheffield premium service visa centre!

Seeing as you have seen fit to introduce these things I will try and answer your points :-

1. TB you have had a bee in your bonnet over my views about TB testing for some time. In fact you started a topic on it in response to what I had said in a previous thread. You know as well as I do that my comments and views were solely about the testing of settlement visa applicants from Thailand. In that thread I proved my case with statistical analysis. Not content with that you keep wanting to introduce other countries and other visa categories. I told you then and I am telling you again I am not prepared to comment on other countries and other categories. It is not incumbent on me to do a worldwide analysis of the benefits of TB testing. It may be suitable in other circumstances but for Thai settlement visa applicants it is not. I would advise you and Mr. Maprang Holmes to revisit the thread you started to save us boring the pants off everyone else. If you or him still have a problem with it then either add a post to that thread or PM me.

2. Maybe some Brits are finding it difficult in Thailand with the devaluation of their pensions against the baht although in the last 3 years the pound has gone up against the baht - c.48 then to c.53 now. That's a 10% increase in their spending power. However, all that is not really the point. Also it is not really the point that it is easier to get ILR/citizenship in the UK than it is in Thailand. The point is that it is a lot easier for couples and families to live together in Thailand than it is for them to live together in the UK. Thailand grants 30 days visit visa automatically on entry at no cost. UK does not. Thailand makes it very easy for people to get 1 year visas. UK does not. Thailand allows married couples to stay in Thailand without all the hoops that are imposed by the UK. Bottom line is Thailand allows families to be together whereas the UK imposes onerous restrictions (such as income requirements) which makes it almost impossible for some families to remain together.

3. You talk about the whim of the Thai government changing the rules. That's the pot and the kettle isn't it? What about all the changes the UK makes? So many and so fast we can't keep up with them. The latest one being people not knowing if previously bona fide English language test passes are still valid.

4. You bring up the fact that many migrants come here from South Asia and manage to pass KOLL. I don't know the figures about how many and what percentage of these migrants pass. I suspect you don't either. Firstly this forum is about Thailand not South Asia so we should try to stick to Thailand as far as possible. Secondly, it is a fallacy to compare Thailand and South Asia. Reason being that, as you no doubt know, South Asia (India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka etc.) were for about 200 years under British colonial rule. Therefore the English language (and to a degree the British way of life) is ingrained in South Asia culture. This, in general and inter alia, makes it easier for a South Asia person to study and pass KOLL than it is for a Thai person as Thailand was never under British colonial rule.

5. I didn't think MaprangHolmes made any points except to say his wife passed KOLL and anyone who doesn't eventually pass should be removed from the UK. Do you subsribe to that view? He did go on to say that he reckoned he would pass a Thai equivalent of KOLL. Anyone can say that but it is a lot harder to actually do it. I picked him up on his English to show that someone who made 4 basic English errors in 2 very short posts really wouldn't stand much of a chance with the Thai language. Yes I make some mistakes with my English. So do you and pretty much everyone else in this forum. Difference is that I don't spout off that I could go to Thailand and pass an equivalent of KOLL. I couldn't pass it and neither, in my opinion, could more than 90% of the Westerners in this forum. MaprangHolmes says he could do it yet he can't get his basic English correct. Classic example .....it all boils down to being properly papared.... I presume he meant prepared or maybe he meant plastered - LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[durhamboy]

Are you really trying to say that people should not be tested for Tuberculosis if they want to settle in the UK. Do you not realise that TB was all almost wiped out in the 1970's and started to make a come back in the 1980's. It makes perfect sense to screen anyone wanting to come here to settle for TB.

You want to criticise my use of English, however it is good enough to help my wife get through her life in the UK test with a score of 23/24. May be if you spent more of your time and effort helping your wife to understand the life in the UK book and less time complaining on here then she may stand a better chance of passing it.

Please refer to my response to 7by7 regarding TB, your use of English and other points.

You know absolutely nothing about how I spend my time and effort in helping my wife to pass KOLL. For your information, because the Home Office has struck off various English language test providers, we do not know if she will have to retake an English exam for her FLR. Once we sort that out, and she then has a good enough foundation in English, we will look in depth at what is required for her to pass the LITUK test. Now are you satisfied with that update or would you like to make some further comments about something that is really none of your business?

[theoldgit]

OK guys, enough of the personal remarks please, we are all on the same side here. People come here to seek advice from those who kindly share their personal experiences, not to observe infighting, so enough is enough.

Thanks

[7by7]

Fair enough, OG, I'll close by simply repeating

The rules, whether it be TB tests or KOLL or anything else, are the same for all; as they should be, otherwise they would be unfair.

[keithsimmonds]

Fair enough, OG, I'll close by simply repeating

The rules, whether it be TB tests or KOLL or anything else, are the same for all; as they should be, otherwise they would be unfair.

Sorry can,t agree with your statement on KOLL............one size does not fit all .....every case should be treated on it,s own merits. When i was a School in Exeter over 40 years ago there was a reme dial class for 12 to 16 year olds that had learning difficulties ..those kids through no thought of there own were never going to achieve the standard of education that the rest of us could achieve no matter how much studying they did.

[7by7]

The rules are the same for everyone; but as I said earlier

At the end of the day, unless exempt, this test is a requirement for ILR

To expand on that; people with learning, or other, disabilities are exempt from KOLL; as are people aged under 18 or 65 and over.

Immigration Rules Appendix Koll

Part 3 Exceptions.
3.1 Notwithstanding any requirement to the contrary in these Rules, for the purposes of this appendix, an applicant will not be required to demonstrate sufficient knowledge of the English language and about life in the UK where:
(a) the applicant is under 18 years of age at the date of his or her application, or
( b ) the applicant is at least 65 years of age at the date of his or her application, or
© in all the circumstances of the case, the decision maker considers that, because of the applicant's mental or physical condition, it would be unreasonable to expect the applicant to fulfil that requirement.

(my emphasis)

You'll see from para 3.2 that people who have had continuous leave to remain for a minimum of 15 years are exempt from the LitUK test, but still need an English qualification of some acceptable sort.