I worked on a tourist visa, now being threatened by my agency. Help?

[merak]

Hi all,

Before anyone says anything, yes I know that I shouldn't have worked illegally. I have three years of teaching experience in my home country and a TESOL cert, so I wasn't wading in blind.

I had a job at an agency and worked cash in hand on a tourist visa. I now have to leave the country due to reasons beyond my control. The agency I worked with has said that they are going to report me to immigration because I refused to pay them 50,000 baht for leaving before my contract was up. (Well aware that it wasn't worth the paper it was printed on.)

Surely as they employed me, reporting me to immigration would just get them, and the school that I was positioned at, in trouble as well?

I'm worried about this and I am leaving the country next week. Am I going to have problems leaving the country?

Thank you in advance.

[lostinisaan]

Sorry to hear the circumstances you’re in. I wouldn't worry about the school, please think about your own situation.

It seems that they’re only interested in getting some money out of you, before you leave. I assume that this is a part of your contract to pay 50K, when you don’t finish it? Would they really take you to court? Lol…

..

The school wouldn't have any problems, as they’re using an agency. But the agency would have huge problems when “reporting” you to Immigration.

If I were you, I’d inform the agency that you’re already in touch with a lawyer. Book your ticket, fly out as you've planned.

Please consider that same agency must have plenty of dead bodies to hide and it would NEVER be in their interest to do anything against you.

Especially not informing the Immigration.

I wouldn't be concerned about anything and even if they’d try to sue you for breaking a contract, they’d bang their head against a wall.

Don’t worry, life’s too short. Best of luck. Please keep us informed how it went. Cheers-

Edited September 16, 2014 by lostinisaan

[merak]

Thank you for the reassurance. I fly out next week. The agency told me that they were going to report me to immigration but I know of at least one other person that they are employing without a work permit. I assume that this is just a scare tactic to get me to pay up, but it would be nice to know that I will be able to leave the country without any problem.

Also the only info they have on me is my passport, no address details. So unless I am stopped when I fly out, there's nothing that they can do.

Edited September 16, 2014 by merak

[WonnabeBiker]

They would be waking sleeping dogs...

I've had my last month's salary withheld. They said "no contract" and I paid a 20,000 Baht fine at Immigration and 1,900 for 7 days' stay. Then a flight out. with hindsight, I would just rush to the airport and fly out.

Anyhow, you are still working, aren't you. what about getting paid for your time worked in September?!?

Doubt that contract clause would be enforceable - certainly not with you being abroad.

^^^

Now I see why many won't give notice and instead just disappear. They wait for their pay check... You acted professionally and now these scumbags want to grab your partial salary. That's what it boils down to IMHO.

[merak]

Do you mean that you had to pay a fine and stayed at the IDC for 7 days? That's what I'm most worried about.

[lostinisaan]

Thank you for the reassurance. I fly out next week. The agency told me that they were going to report me to immigration but I know of at least one other person that they are employing without a work permit. I assume that this is just a scare tactic to get me to pay up, but it would be nice to know that I will be able to leave the country without any problem.

Also the only info they have on me is my passport, no address details. So unless I am stopped when I fly out, there's nothing that they can do.

I don't think that you'd be reported to all Immigration offices and wouldn't be too concerned. Just leave. Good luck

There'd have to be a very serious reason for doing so. Not for working on a tourist visa for a shitty agency. ( I apologize for the honest ones, if such do exist)

[merak]

Thanks, I was a good employee, I cared about the children, had a good reputation with the school and the parents. Now this happens and I feel really worried that I will be stopped when I try to leave.

[iancnx]

Don't answer calls or emails (they can do IP trace). Disappear. Pretend you already left. Highly unlikely immigration airport will have been contacted.

[merak]

My flight out isn't until next week.

[lostinisaan]

My flight out isn't until next week.

Don't worry. Just wait and leave.

[merak]

Thank you all for your advice.

[inbangkok]

I think they are bluffing for the very reasons you stated..... They were breaking the law as well by employing you. This is a good example of why it is not good to work in Thailand illegally. You have few options in these types of situations and are susceptible to blackmail and threats. However, I am pretty sure you are going to be fine in this situation.

Edited September 16, 2014 by inbangkok

[WonnabeBiker]

Do you mean that you had to pay a fine and stayed at the IDC for 7 days? That's what I'm most worried about.

No. In addition to the maximum overstay (due to the $#@%$#$#@#@!ing school not having handled the transfer of the WP "as promised") fine, I had to pay 1,900 to get permission to stay an additional 7 days. Plus 100 B for some passport photo.

The employee gets fined 100 k Baht and will be deported. The employer will be fined just 10 k Baht. Thai fairness at work, huh?!

OTOH, once you are out of the country, you should fight to get paid for time worked. There was an employer who had been given no notice by an employee of more than a year. He had to pay the salary until the last day. The same applies to this agency. and their contract won't be water tight if challenged in court. It's a scam to sucker you into accepting them embezzling your last salary, that's all.

[Hawkman]

I knew a Chinese girl who was teaching and was threatened with this when she wanted to move to another job and they threatened to not pay her the money she was owed.

So, she said, "Ok, I won't leave." Then as soon as she got paid at the end of the month, she quit moved to another part of Thailand into her new job. It left the Agency with a teacher short and the school angry she had just left; however, if the agency had just been fair and not threatened her, none of this would have happened.

So, if I were you, tell them you will pay, you are getting some money together, but it will take a couple of weeks, then just leave. They won't report you.

Edited September 16, 2014 by Hawkman

[Scott]

I don't think they can just cold call the immigration and expect any action. They would need to go to the police first, but since you haven't committed a crime, I don't think the police would care. The other course of action would be to try to take you to court or get a court order of some type to have you stopped or detained. Again, since you haven't done anything wrong yet, I don't think a court is going to get involved.

Unless they are vindictive enough to try and set you up, you should be OK.

If you are really nervous, simply catch a flight to somewhere, like Cambodia and then fly back to catch your regular flight out and just transit rather than going through immigration. (You would have to check to make sure you can do it logistically).

[Gulfsailor]

Compile as much evidence against the agency as you can. Leave the pile with a lawyer. Leave the country, then let the lawyer contact the agency. Demand 500,000 baht (you can split it with the lawyer) or the authorities will be notified of the agencies criminal practices. One fights fire with fire.

[Loptr]

Turn the tables on the agency... Tell them that unless they pay you 50,000 baht, then you will report them to the labor board for hiring foreigners without getting them a WP... Works both ways in the con game...

[SlyAnimal]

Don't worry, they employed you on a tourist visa so are equally responsible (well sorta). It's highly unlikely that they'd report you, and if they did, it's even less likely that immigration would actually do anything (particularly if you're leaving the country, if you were staying in the same area, your next +30day tourist extension might be interesting lol).

Although with the new visa regulations, you'll likely need to obtain proper visas if you want to continue teaching in Thailand.

[BruceMangosteen]

No. In addition to the maximum overstay (due to the $#@%$#$#@#@!ing school not having handled the transfer of the WP "as promised") fine, I had to pay 1,900 to get permission to stay an additional 7 days. Plus 100 B for some passport photo.

How did immigration know or establish you were on an overstay? As for the transfer/add on to the Work Permit, it remains the workers responsibility.

In the OP's case, he/she is here on a tourist VISA. It seems impossible an agency could simply get the VISA canceled and cause the foreigner to be here illegally. The 50,000 baht buy out is also a joke but I assume from your post, it was in the "contract"? Said "contract" isn't something immigration is going to rely on to detain you so I think you can just fly away, no big deal.

ps: It would take big money or criminal accusations to cause you to be detained. It's easy for us to say since we aren't in the situation, but I don't think you have a worry in the world. Have a nice trip and relax.

[BruceMangosteen]

Now I see why many won't give notice and instead just disappear. They wait for their pay check... You acted professionally and now these scumbags want to grab your partial salary. That's what it boils down to IMHO.

Correct. They don't want to pay him/her for September. The mistake was giving the notice. In an instance like described, where you need to leave due to an emergency etc., in the middle of the month or shall we say near the end of the month, I'm not sure what the best solution is. With an agency, I seriously doubt they will pay the teacher what is owed him/her. Some schools might if the "like" the teacher and want or hope she comes back. But an agency? Doubt it.

[BruceMangosteen]

It's highly unlikely that they'd report you, and if they did, it's even less likely that immigration would actually do anything (particularly if you're leaving the country, if you were staying in the same area, your next +30day tourist extension might be interesting lol).

How would they go about reporting you anyhow? It certainly would take more than a phone call.

[Naroge]

Why don't you ask this question in the "Ask the Lawyer" forum?

Why should Immigration listen to the Agency? If they would like to catch you for working w/o WP there is probably another ministry involved (Labour?).

Just a thought.

[MediaWatcher]

iancnx, on 16 Sept 2014 - 13:51, said:iancnx, on 16 Sept 2014 - 13:51, said:

Don't answer calls or emails (they can do IP trace). Disappear. Pretend you already left. Highly unlikely immigration airport will have been contacted.

An agency can NOT do an IP trace, even if they had the IP address, it would only show the nearest gateway..eg, 3BB in Mukdahan has its gateway in either Khon kaen or Udon Thani. But hey, if you are worried simply use an internet café.

Edited September 17, 2014 by MediaWatcher

[cardinalblue]

Not an expert in this but I would surely think that the proper working documents (work permit) rest with the school to obtain and no one else...

Enforcement would go after low hanging fruit and that is the employee but really the problem rests with the school not getting you a work permit. They should be the target and not the employee....

The agency just wants their money so the threat is issued. Now should they become liable for seeing that their recruited personnel have the proper documents? Don't know but I would drag them in if they report you or threaten you....

Two can play at this game...

CB

[meand]

So a profitable company is going to take a chance on losing their business by informing a govt agency they have an illegal worker?

[NoshowJones]

Compile as much evidence against the agency as you can. Leave the pile with a lawyer. Leave the country, then let the lawyer contact the agency. Demand 500,000 baht (you can split it with the lawyer) or the authorities will be notified of the agencies criminal practices. One fights fire with fire.

You took the words right out of my mouth.

[steven100]

Both you and the agency were breaking the law under the immigration act.

As such ... I doubt that they will contact immigration.

I would exit the country as quickly as possible.

... Now do people see why these rules are implemented ...

[mikecat]

Seriously I wouldnt worry, an Agency that pulls of this sort of stunt wont be too ethical in its practices. I doubt that you are not the only one employed by them without the correct visa or work permit. They will not invite unwanted attention to their practices. If they contact you again just tell them to desist or their name will be plastered all over Facebook and Twitter.

Did they or the school offer to provide paperwork for the correct non B and work permit, I doubt it. They probably just thought this is a good opportunity to hire a teacher on the cheap and treat him like crap because they wont react due to the fact you are working illagally.

Really, every man and his dog knows about schools, agencies and illigal English teachers. They dont care, if they did immigration, department of labour and the police would be swarming all over the schools up and down the country. So I truly wouldnt worry.

[dotpoom]

Am I missing something........ If it is correct that you signed a contract stating that you would pay 50k if you finished up before completion of said contract.....then why do you feel you do not have to honor that. If it were the other way round and it was they who terminated your contract before it ended and they had signed up to a similar clause....wouldn't you be looking for your 50K?

All the replies I have read so far are advising you to (in so many words) let them go and stuff their contract where it will never see the light of day. I would not consider it good advice to deliberately break a contract that you signed up to and fully comprehended.

Let alone the Karmic repercussions......what you put out there comes back, just like a boomerang.

[WonnabeBiker]

No. In addition to the maximum overstay (due to the $#@%$#$#@#@!ing school not having handled the transfer of the WP "as promised") fine, I had to pay 1,900 to get permission to stay an additional 7 days. Plus 100 B for some passport photo.

How did immigration know or establish you were on an overstay? I went to Chiang Mai immigration to face the music. ** It went down like this. They openly blackmailed me. Accept 55,000 Baht (instead of the 6-figure amount they owed me) and we will date the cancellation so you won't have a problem. ** I chose not to be open to blackmail, told Immigration and paid up. Later, with the benefit of hindsight, I should have accepted the immoral offer from a financial point of view. But we both lost money as they were forced to hire a lawyer as well. As for the transfer/add on to the Work Permit, it remains the workers responsibility. It had been a deal which had been brokered - and they broke it.

In the OP's case, he/she is here on a tourist VISA. It seems impossible an agency could simply get the VISA canceled and cause the foreigner to be here illegally. The 50,000 baht buy out is also a joke but I assume from your post, it was in the "contract"? Said "contract" isn't something immigration is going to rely on (moreover, I doubt it would stand up to scrutiny in court) to detain you so I think you can just fly away, no big deal.

ps: It would take big money or criminal accusations to cause you to be detained. It's easy for us to say since we aren't in the situation, but I don't think you have a worry in the world. Have a nice trip and relax. It's a preparation for n o t paying you for time worked the last month IMHO.