Overzealous enforcement of Thailand's alcohol purchase hours

[Keesters]

I don't get it. If as many keep saying "it is not the law" why do so many places, Tesco, Bic C, Macro, 7-11 etc all have the same notice displayed about alcohol selling hours? Or it that a few TV members know better than these Thai businesses.

Here, maybe the why. Some time back I was shopping in the Food Market at the Mall. They have a section inside with an Aircon room for wine sales. I knew of the law that is not a law and was buying wine for cooking and the odd glass, I.e. Plonk plus a couple of nicer bottles. In total about 12 liters. Went to checkout, which is inside the room not at the food checkout. There were three or four girls there, one suggesting

I buy whiskey who was particularly cute, the girl I mean. Anyway I digress. Having collected my purchases totaling maybe 10k including the spirits I went to the checkout. It was by that time about 2.10pm.

The conversation went like this:

"sawasdee" girls in unison

"sawasdee khrup" me

"Cannot!"

"Sorry? Cannot what?" Me

"Time no good" till girl

"5 O'clock" whiskey girl

"Ummmm. I have 12 liters here. Look. Box wine 4.5 liters x 2 = 9 liters plus two bottles of wine is another 1.5 liters, that's 10.5 litres, plus whiskey 1 litre, plus Jameson 0.7 litres, total 12.2 litres. Can buy if more than 10 litres"

"Not right!" Till girl

"Check with your calculator then" me

Some moments examining bottles trying to find the quantity and punching into calculator.

"Oooorrrrrhhhhh" amazed noise from all girls in unison. Wow that whiskey girl was really hot and a lovely smile too.

'Great' I smile back and some general chit chat but time to get back home so I motion toward the bottles indicating to pay.

'Cannot. Time'. Till girl

'What?' Me

'Time no good!'

'Errm look. Do you have a manager please because its more than 10 litres?

Concerned looks all around. Phone comes out and guy comes on the phone.

'You cannot buy because it's after 2pm' manager

'Well it was before 2 until Johnny Walkers girl accosted me'

'Oh dear, yes we have promotion staff for Johnny'

'Yes and very good .......' I check myself as the conversation is rapidly missing the point. 'Look, I have more than 10 litres so it's all OK'

'no sir cannot sell after 2pm until 5pm

'You can'

'Cannot'

'Why are the staff even here then?'

'Can sell pipe tobacco''

'Johnny a Walker girl can't!'

'No she is for promoting Johnny Walker' he says

Conversation derailed again.

'I didn't mean ..... Nevermind. The point is why can't you sell me this? I have to go home now'

'Can'

'Great!'

'Or you can wait'

'What?'

'Can wait until 5pm'

As alluring as Johnny Walker girl is she is now examining her face in her Samsung, tilting the screen for just the right angle.

'Can I just buy now please?'

'No, sorry cannot'

'Look it's not even the law and even the law that isn't a law lets you buy between 2 and 5 if you buy more than 10 litres.'

'I don't think so'

'It is so'

'Can I have your phone number please?' Says the guy on the other end of the now rather hot mobile

If Johnny girl had asked she'd have it in a flash and I would have been in trouble!

'Why?'

'Will get my boss to call you when he gets back from lunch!'

I have visions of boss graving a nice lunch with the Mama and Maggi promotion girls and a nice bottle of Merlot which does not make me feel better. I give him my number.

I did not get the alcohol. The boss did call me to explain - amazingly. He said their licence did not allow wholesale sales. Apparently it costs more (cannot imagine how it would not be worth the 50 baht or so likely extra cost for that huge store but that is another thing. He also explained he knew the law was not a law but that the officials enforcing the law might not know it was not a law and might shut his wine room until it could be sorted out which would cost them money. I said it already cost them 10k today and substantially more over time since I would go elsewhere to buy. Mai pen rai was the response.

Sorry doesn't really explain anything except everyone in the story is stupid, except yourself of course.

You went in with the impression that the law is not the law. Where did you get that idea from?

[timewilltell]

I don't get it. If as many keep saying "it is not the law" why do so many places, Tesco, Bic C, Macro, 7-11 etc all have the same notice displayed about alcohol selling hours? Or it that a few TV members know better than these Thai businesses.

Here, maybe the why. Some time back I was shopping in the Food Market at the Mall. They have a section inside with an Aircon room for wine sales. I knew of the law that is not a law and was buying wine for cooking and the odd glass, I.e. Plonk plus a couple of nicer bottles. In total about 12 liters. Went to checkout, which is inside the room not at the food checkout. There were three or four girls there, one suggesting

I buy whiskey who was particularly cute, the girl I mean. Anyway I digress. Having collected my purchases totaling maybe 10k including the spirits I went to the checkout. It was by that time about 2.10pm.

The conversation went like this:

"sawasdee" girls in unison

"sawasdee khrup" me

"Cannot!"

"Sorry? Cannot what?" Me

"Time no good" till girl

"5 O'clock" whiskey girl

"Ummmm. I have 12 liters here. Look. Box wine 4.5 liters x 2 = 9 liters plus two bottles of wine is another 1.5 liters, that's 10.5 litres, plus whiskey 1 litre, plus Jameson 0.7 litres, total 12.2 litres. Can buy if more than 10 litres"

"Not right!" Till girl

"Check with your calculator then" me

Some moments examining bottles trying to find the quantity and punching into calculator.

"Oooorrrrrhhhhh" amazed noise from all girls in unison. Wow that whiskey girl was really hot and a lovely smile too.

'Great' I smile back and some general chit chat but time to get back home so I motion toward the bottles indicating to pay.

'Cannot. Time'. Till girl

'What?' Me

'Time no good!'

'Errm look. Do you have a manager please because its more than 10 litres?

Concerned looks all around. Phone comes out and guy comes on the phone.

'You cannot buy because it's after 2pm' manager

'Well it was before 2 until Johnny Walkers girl accosted me'

'Oh dear, yes we have promotion staff for Johnny'

'Yes and very good .......' I check myself as the conversation is rapidly missing the point. 'Look, I have more than 10 litres so it's all OK'

'no sir cannot sell after 2pm until 5pm

'You can'

'Cannot'

'Why are the staff even here then?'

'Can sell pipe tobacco''

'Johnny a Walker girl can't!'

'No she is for promoting Johnny Walker' he says

Conversation derailed again.

'I didn't mean ..... Nevermind. The point is why can't you sell me this? I have to go home now'

'Can'

'Great!'

'Or you can wait'

'What?'

'Can wait until 5pm'

As alluring as Johnny Walker girl is she is now examining her face in her Samsung, tilting the screen for just the right angle.

'Can I just buy now please?'

'No, sorry cannot'

'Look it's not even the law and even the law that isn't a law lets you buy between 2 and 5 if you buy more than 10 litres.'

'I don't think so'

'It is so'

'Can I have your phone number please?' Says the guy on the other end of the now rather hot mobile

If Johnny girl had asked she'd have it in a flash and I would have been in trouble!

'Why?'

'Will get my boss to call you when he gets back from lunch!'

I have visions of boss graving a nice lunch with the Mama and Maggi promotion girls and a nice bottle of Merlot which does not make me feel better. I give him my number.

I did not get the alcohol. The boss did call me to explain - amazingly. He said their licence did not allow wholesale sales. Apparently it costs more (cannot imagine how it would not be worth the 50 baht or so likely extra cost for that huge store but that is another thing. He also explained he knew the law was not a law but that the officials enforcing the law might not know it was not a law and might shut his wine room until it could be sorted out which would cost them money. I said it already cost them 10k today and substantially more over time since I would go elsewhere to buy. Mai pen rai was the response.

Sorry doesn't really explain anything except everyone in the story is stupid, except yourself of course.

You went in with the impression that the law is not the law. Where did you get that idea from?

Because it is NOT the law, it was a 'request' by the government if the time which has never been codified. It explains that service staff just do as they are told - as they should and the reasons the managers have this policy is not in order to comply with the law but to avoid issues with those in authority who actually don't know their job (or pretend not to for aback hander) and as a result can cause more trouble than just submitting to their ignorance. It also raises the point that there may be two types of liquor sale licence which I gave not further investigated but simply taken the managers word for it - others here may know more.

Avoiding the problem is the point which is the path of least resistance for some and for others they will choose to follow the law and ignore the suggestion that you cannot sell alcohol between certain hours because it certainly is NOT the law. Did I make the point clear now that it is NOT the law even if the finer points are still cloudy. Oh and by the way the conversation is typical of the way Thais think compared to the way I think (which I would say is fairly normal western thinking) and does not infer stupidity unless YOU choose to take it that way - others would find it just a different way of thinking that makes life more enjoyable in everyday interaction - up to you as the saying goes.

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[Keesters]

Sorry but I'm still none the wiser because all you do is say 'it is not' with no evidence to prove that statement. I'm not saying you're wrong I just trying to find out more concrete facts which you seem unable to give.

[N47HAN]

No N47HAN

All restaurants do not sell alcohol beteeen these hours.

Try MK they certainly do not sell at these times.

Ok I stand corrected , after 12 years of being here ive never once had an issue. Guess ive just been timing it right all these years.

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[Jaggg88]

This law really winds me up sometimes. I have lost count of the times I have had to leave a pack of larger behind the till in a certain supermarket, because its a few minutes past 2, or its some holiday I knew nothing about. The last time this happened was last week, it was 10.45pm and I had a crate of 24 cans, and they would not let me have them. I thought it would not be a problem as it was well before 2pm and a crate counted as wholesale.

A crate is not wholesale. It's either over 10 litres or 10 litres & over. Forget the exact wording. Anyway 1 box of large beers is not enough. 2 is! Macro always make me buy more than I want just to comply with the law. Crazy.

wholesalers of course of which there are many looking like warehouses will sell you one box any time, just another anomoly

Yep thats what I do, park outside the wholesalers on my way home and shout LEO! and they bring me out a box - my Thai language skills still amaze me. The 711 used to sell out of hours but they have the fridges sealed now in the afternoons.

[Keesters]

This law really winds me up sometimes. I have lost count of the times I have had to leave a pack of larger behind the till in a certain supermarket, because its a few minutes past 2, or its some holiday I knew nothing about. The last time this happened was last week, it was 10.45pm and I had a crate of 24 cans, and they would not let me have them. I thought it would not be a problem as it was well before 2pm and a crate counted as wholesale.

A crate is not wholesale. It's either over 10 litres or 10 litres & over. Forget the exact wording. Anyway 1 box of large beers is not enough. 2 is! Macro always make me buy more than I want just to comply with the law. Crazy.

wholesalers of course of which there are many looking like warehouses will sell you one box any time, just another anomoly

Yep thats what I do, park outside the wholesalers on my way home and shout LEO! and they bring me out a box - my Thai language skills still amaze me. The 711 used to sell out of hours but they have the fridges sealed now in the afternoons.

Just about as many places/people will comply with the law as break it.

[chrissables]

The tills are all timed so if they make an alcohol sale when they shouldn't, the operator loses his / her job. If you want to buy alcohol outside the hours, go to a corner shop, they will always oblige.

Actually it happened to me two times when in rural North Thailand. I had been riding my motorbike for 10 hours and wanted a beer.! I just gave the cashier the money and went to go, she called me back to give me a bag.

If it is to stop children, just don't serve children!

Crazy sometimes.

[jacky54]

Sorry but I'm still none the wiser because all you do is say 'it is not' with no evidence to prove that statement. I'm not saying you're wrong I just trying to find out more concrete facts which you seem unable to give.

How to prove it's not a law, how can you show no law, but you can show A law, how about it?

[jacky54]

Sorry but I'm still none the wiser because all you do is say 'it is not' with no evidence to prove that statement. I'm not saying you're wrong I just trying to find out more concrete facts which you seem unable to give.

How to prove it's not a law, how can you show no law, but you can show A law, how about it?

[Keesters]

Sorry but I'm still none the wiser because all you do is say 'it is not' with no evidence to prove that statement. I'm not saying you're wrong I just trying to find out more concrete facts which you seem unable to give.

How to prove it's not a law, how can you show no law, but you can show A law, how about it?

While I understand what you're saying and while it's true you can't prove something that's not there but the Thais must have got the idea from somewhere. A request, a guideline, something like that. When you consider how much the Thais ignore most laws I find it ironic that they seem to be complying with this possible non-law.

Perhaps the government could learn from this and repeal a lot of laws so the Thai people would then do what was originally wanted without being told to by law.

[johnkirks]

I liked the observation that the Thais were worried about that the enforcers of the possible law may not be aware if the law exists. Sounds like some form of democracy.

[dominique355]

stupid law or not it is the law. The lady at the check out could loose her job if she sells it. She may have a family to support. Be considerate she is between a rock and a hard place.

Rubbish if they don't lose their jobs for spending half the day on their smartphones they won't for selling beer five minutes 'early', or do you know anyone that ever has?

All sales are recorded for date, time and item purchased. If there is a control, they are in trouble. Not worth it for a beer.

But it's perfectly legal to buy "wholesale" which is if I remember correctly, about 45 cans of beer, or more.

Makes sense, no?