British backpacker arrested for suspected murder of fellow Britons at Koh Tao

[SteveFong]

night vision never developed?

that is preposterous

there is no such thing as pitch black on the ground, and sand is generally white reflecting anything

this was a murder done in cold blood, under the influence of a violence provoking substance whether it be a drug, alcohol, a mixture of jealousy and anger

all of which was initially mentioned, jealousy in particular as the girl was very cute and just being blonde and cute can be enough to get you killed in Thailand apparently

Yep... No such thing as pitch black... Obviously if there is a light source like the moon which I already accepted. But you walk along a beach when there is no moon or only a tiny bit of moon.... trust me, it is pitch black. I ought to know, I spent 6 months camped on a beach on Lake Malawi in Africa and I can tell you now... If no moon I was always walking slam into locals walking the other way, and that was on white sand. They didn't see me either. So you had to whistle while you walked.... no joking.

I am not familiar with that area,

it seems there is light from the street, but, clearly, they were seeking privacy

it is a tragedy which we may never have details about,, but

CCTV in that bar, before and after, and, cell phone pictures from everyone in the bar that night, and even the victims themselves may have snapped photos which capture the killer,

sadly, it is Thailand, where if you are rich, you can kill a cop on the highway while driving drunk, and not ever go to trial, or be jailed

[andyIslandMan]

Wow this gem from the other thread on TVF here regarding a public admission by Pol Lt General Panya Mamen about those stained pants that were found in Christopher Ware's luggage which shows he was right to leave the island ASAP

As for the pair of stained pants found in Miller's luggage, the general admitted that the substance found on the clothing was not blood and that they belonged to Miller and the pair had been put in the victim's luggage by the first group of police officers.

[Thai at Heart]

Wow this gem from the other thread on TVF here regarding a public admission by Pol Lt General Panya Mamen about those stained pants that were found in Christopher Ware's luggage which shows he was right to leave the island ASAP

As for the pair of stained pants found in Miller's luggage, the general admitted that the substance found on the clothing was not blood and that they belonged to Miller and the pair had been put in the victim's luggage by the first group of police officers.

Wow. What an admission.

[ClutchClark]

It is just as plausible to assume that this was the route back to their cottage seeing as they were so close to it, and if there had been an altercation in the bar, it is very likely that David was possibly escorting her back, which in fact highly probably.... Whether or not there was anticipation in the air or something extra on top to round off the night.

What i also find very strange (and I am yet to read anyone else touch on this) .... How the hell was this attack and atrocity possibly orchestrated in absolute pitch darkness? I mean... have you ever walked on a beach in the dead of night on a remote island? You can barely see a hand in front of your face. Let alone be able to carry out such an obviously coordinated attack on two you people.

Surely there must have been torches used, and there must have been screaming and shouting as the horror was unfolding. Which makes me think that there must have been a gun involved to instil fear and cooperation then dispatched them with a more silent method.

Using nothing but logic here, so don't pull me apart... I don't know what the hell happened here just like anyone else, but these are valid questions. Also it is rather unlikely the animals that did this would want to rape a dead person... that is a totally separate brand of crime altogether... So I think it can be safely assumed that Hannah was fully alive while being raped twice.... Yet remained silent.

Again just my curiosity to untouched on questions.

The moon was up for several hours by then and a half-moon at that which was sufficient visibilty to see a distance across open beach; however, difficult to detect figures hidden in the shadows of the large boulders.

Its interesting how much better Thai people can see at night than most farang, whose night vision never developed as much due to the artificial lighting our societies have long had installed.

I'll accept that.

A half moon would give enough light to show outlines.

But a coordianted frenzied attack?? May be a bit awkward I would think. But if Thais, like you say, they would have been at an advantage being able to see better and have the element of surprise.

But maybe they were not lying in wait? Maybe they were all together basically David and Hannah being pestered by some islanders which turned nasty as they were rejected. I mean... alcohol plus SE Asian hair trigger rage.... I have seen it up close on much more than one occasion.

Don't forget to sprinkle some Ya-Ice into the mix as it was almost certainly used by the attacker(s). Edited September 18, 2014 by ClutchClark

[ClutchClark]

Wow this gem from the other thread on TVF here regarding a public admission by Pol Lt General Panya Mamen about those stained pants that were found in Christopher Ware's luggage which shows he was right to leave the island ASAP

As for the pair of stained pants found in Miller's luggage, the general admitted that the substance found on the clothing was not blood and that they belonged to Miller and the pair had been put in the victim's luggage by the first group of police officers.

Wow. What an admission.

Yep. Seems like transparency to me from the police that everyone is always accusing of cover-ups.

[ScotBkk]

Hi just replying to this as I used to be a resident of Koh Tao for many many years until last year.

Quite a lot of posters don't really seem to know much about the island other than it being a beauty spot and great for diving. At risk of sounding negative there is a lot more to the place than this and its very diff to Phangan and Samui - it also really does have a very sinister side (as most places in the world do if you scratch the surface - like I say I'm not slating the island here but just giving an insight).

Firstly - the police don't have a CLUE nor care on the island. unless the bigger police come (normally to nick folk and extort money from them when they have gambling debts) from Samui or the mainland the po po don't give 2 shits about what goes on. Immigration come from time to time but the island is so small that the word gets round to anyone who shouldn't be there. Its pretty lawless to be frank.

Almost all the workers are Burmese in all the businesses. I'd actually go as far as to say there are more Burmese here than Thai (maybe). The Thai's that do live here are mostly from Bangkok. The gangs run the island without a doubt. There are no cars on Tao except for taxi's - the taxi drivers are run by the gangs and they hold the place to ransom with what they charge and how they operate - there have also been lots of reports of taxi drivers "touching up" shall we say drunk female holiday makers. I have also witnessed taxi drivers beating the sh*t out of tourists on many many an occasion. They wouldn't even allow an ambulance service which the farangs tried to set up and said it would be shot at if they did (they see it as taking business away from the taxis). There are lots of clinics (gang owned) but no doctors and no hospital. If you had an serious accident or say a stroke here you'd die put it that way as you wouldn't make the next island fast enough on a boat. Most of the bars etc are gang owned - the ones that aren't are often burned down if they start making money or people get shot at.

The bar the 2 victims were at (AC) is EXTREMELY dodgy past about 1am. Some really dangerous folk frequent there. The island is such a wonderful place but yes (as I say like most places) it gets to a certain time of night and all the freaks come out - couple this with drugs, drink, weapons and a police force who just sit in their office playing cards and you better off staying indoors! Anyway like I say - just an insight.

I'm not going to start speculating about what happened as there is too much of that going on here on this thread. Will just wait to see how this pans out.

RIP to these poor people I have thought of nothing else for the past few days - its just so shocking.

Good Post John.

Nice to read about your personal views which are more down to experience rather than guesswork which is all too familiar on tv. Time is dragging on now. Police investigators have to get off their arse and start arresting local people methodically to beget a much clearer view or an insight to ascertain once and for all, what most people are frustrated about namely: the aggressors who kicked off on David whilst trying to save this girls honour. It should also be understood that we are not alone in our suspicions since, people like Johnathon Head (BBC) and others alike are fully aware of what we see as cover-ups and are currently working on this assumption.

Personally, I predict this angle will be or will have to be, fully investigated quickly since, this seems to be the crux or a more credible motive for these ghastly murders I cannot think of any other intention to endanger their lives other than the – save face modus operandi. We have been unfortunately become accustomed to understand this as a way in Thailand to virtually guarantee yourself a good beating or worse – death.

Everyone, has a right to their views and to ponder over this case although the above needs to be put to bed first so most people will be satisfied as to the outcome – if any. If per chance, nobody is arrested for these grisly murders soon, I wholly suspect this will cause bedlam worldwide and the tourism will definitely see the down side of this for a while to come. It’s a shame that horrific crimes like this are merrily played down at times as if it’s just part n parcel of life as we know it in Thailand. Okay, fair enough, things happen in other countries. However, it seems to me that mostly ‘tourists’ seem to be the worst off of late and does not inspire anyone to think of vacationing here with a view to safety.

Anyway, rather than drone on will await to see if this case builds up momentum or just fizzles out like other murders in the past that seem to have just been left on file ….

God Bless these two young people …………..

Edited September 18, 2014 by ScotBkk

[ClutchClark]

Misspoke.

Edited September 18, 2014 by ClutchClark

[phuketandsee]

Wow this gem from the other thread on TVF here regarding a public admission by Pol Lt General Panya Mamen about those stained pants that were found in Christopher Ware's luggage which shows he was right to leave the island ASAP

As for the pair of stained pants found in Miller's luggage, the general admitted that the substance found on the clothing was not blood and that they belonged to Miller and the pair had been put in the victim's luggage by the first group of police officers.

As I posted on that thread just when you thought the BIB couldn't be any more inept.

Why on earth did the police pack the victim's bag? Did they think it was blood when they packed them?

If this was a book or movie script it would be rejected as being too preposterous to believe.

I sincerely hope the poor families of the victims are not reading any of this. And that the PM is!

[ScotBkk]

Hmm...so the answer is to just start arresting locals until one of them admits it? And I suppose if one of them doesn't admit to the crime then just pin it on him all the same.

As you suggest, tourism might take a hit if somebody isn't pinned for this crime soon.

.......................................................................................................................................

Clarky,

No, please don't take it out of context. I just meant this angle needs further investigation throughout to give people peace of mind and by no means meant to employ a lynch mob scenario therefore would highly appreciate if you took this onboard as the true meaning of peoples concerns.

Thanks again

[metisdead]

Moderators. Would it be possible to put it all under one headline/ topic ?

Sorry, it is not possible to have the Koh Tao topics all in one topic, events are changing rapidly and some of the information cannot be added to existing topics easily. Therefore new topics are added as additional information comes in.

[ClutchClark]

Hmm...so the answer is to just start arresting locals until one of them admits it? And I suppose if one of them doesn't admit to the crime then just pin it on him all the same.

As you suggest, tourism might take a hit if somebody isn't pinned for this crime soon.

.......................................................................................................................................

Clarky,

No, please don't take it out of context. I just meant this angle needs further investigation throughout to give people peace of mind and by no means meant to employ a lynch mob scenario therefore would highly appreciate if you took this onboard as the true meaning of peoples concerns.

Thanks again

Well spoken.

It seems like these days the social media has too often brought a return of the lynch-mob mentality.

My apology, I misunderstood your post.

[Thai at Heart]

Wow this gem from the other thread on TVF here regarding a public admission by Pol Lt General Panya Mamen about those stained pants that were found in Christopher Ware's luggage which shows he was right to leave the island ASAP

As for the pair of stained pants found in Miller's luggage, the general admitted that the substance found on the clothing was not blood and that they belonged to Miller and the pair had been put in the victim's luggage by the first group of police officers.

Wow. What an admission.

Yep. Seems like transparency to me from the police that everyone is always accusing of cover-ups.

Yeah. He exposed that the BIB may have been trying to frame someone. So yes, true to form.

[rhythmworx]

Did they check the Burmese workers Visa's too?

[Thai at Heart]

Moderators. Would it be possible to put it all under one headline/ topic ?

Sorry, it is not possible to have the Koh Tao topics all in one topic, events are changing rapidly and some of the information cannot be added to existing topics easily. Therefore new topics are added as additional information comes in.

Some of these original titles have been disproven, particularly this one.

[ScotBkk]

Hmm...so the answer is to just start arresting locals until one of them admits it? And I suppose if one of them doesn't admit to the crime then just pin it on him all the same.

As you suggest, tourism might take a hit if somebody isn't pinned for this crime soon.

.......................................................................................................................................

Clarky,

No, please don't take it out of context. I just meant this angle needs further investigation throughout to give people peace of mind and by no means meant to employ a lynch mob scenario therefore would highly appreciate if you took this onboard as the true meaning of peoples concerns.

Thanks again

Well spoken.

It seems like these days the social media has too often brought a return of the lynch-mob mentality.

My apology, I misunderstood your post.

No problem, and thanks for your apology since most people don't have such nice manners on here ... Cheers

[phuketandsee]

If they were trying to frame someone why pack the clothes in the victim's baggage? They can't even get that right. Or were they hoping to claim it was suicide as per SOP

Edited September 18, 2014 by phuketandsee

[2befrank]

Latest Sky News replete with criticism of the Thai Police investigation and Prayuth's insanely insensitive comments.

[jucel]

Just seen some pics of what looks to be a Thai teenager with his face bludgeoned. Anyone know anything about this??

[ScotBkk]

Just seen some pics of what looks to be a Thai teenager with his face bludgeoned. Anyone know anything about this??

Where did you see that please ...........

[jspill]

to be fair,

if they had an altercation in the bar,

they should not have gone to an isolated spot behind large rocks,

they walked right into this by not having enough healthy fear of the possible danger they were in,

alcohol will dumb down fears,

it is sad this happened, and I am in no way blaming the victims,

they just were not well advised not to go to a hidden spot no matter how romantic it is to sit by the water

How does anyone actually know that they decided to head to that isolated spot after the altercation. Only they know and they're dead. For all we know they were ambused/drugged elsewhere and dragged there. To 'be fair', one shouldn't speculate or listen to Thai police theories.

[SteveFong]

they were alone and vulnerable,

or they would be alive and home

[AnotherOneAmerican]

How does anyone actually know that they decided to head to that isolated spot after the altercation. Only they know and they're dead. For all we know they were ambused/drugged elsewhere and dragged there. To 'be fair', one shouldn't speculate or listen to Thai police theories.

Totally valid point, for all we know, they were jumped and abducted from outside the bar.

[jucel]

Just seen some pics of what looks to be a Thai teenager with his face bludgeoned. Anyone know anything about this??

Where did you see that please ...........

sent u a pm

[jspill]

they were alone and vulnerable,

or they would be alive and home

If a Thai mafia gang wants me dead, I imagine I'd be dead within the hour.

[jspill]

Some parallels to a horrific murder rape committed by two Thai men against a female Brit backpacker on a beach in 2006. Who bragged about it afterwards.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/1507482/Delicious-boasted-Katherines-sex-killers.html

[SteveFong]

they were alone and vulnerable,

or they would be alive and home

If a Thai mafia gang wants me dead, I imagine I'd be dead within the hour.

and if they only wanted your wife, or daughter, then what?

[mataleo]

Loud thumping music from a nearby club could have easily covered any screams on the night of the murders.

[mataleo]

They should put price for information and hope someone would come forward...

[mataleo]

I tell u this

I just talked to thai friends about it, and thier version of the story is even more ridicules, but gives u idea on thier mind set.

They tell that every mountian, beach, jungle got spiritual person, like ghost who look after place, and u cant disrespect him..

So they reckon that ghost did it b cuz they had sex on the beach....

and then they tell me some examples from past where helicopter crashed in jungle, and they could not find it and ghost stories.....

And they dead serious about it, so acording to them, they think it ghost or whatever u call it...

They up to 28 years old, bachelors, living in city...

[SteveFong]

to the person who debated the darkness factor of the beach, playing a role in concealing the crime,

I now agree.

I went to the beach tonight for dinner, and I found it, tonight, to be unusually dark at 8pm,

now granted there was no moon light at that time, and, I couldn't see anything past 60-90 feet away

given the rocks and from the pictures I have seen of the crime scene, a decline,

there may not have been any light there to speak of at all.

I stand self corrected with a polite push