Koh Tao - DNA tests do not match with those of suspects in British tourists' murder

[halloween]

DNA from semen can clearly rule out western involvement if tested.

Asian DNA and Western DNA are different .

So they could say now its not a westerner its an Asian(s)

http://www.iape.org/emanual/biological_evidence.htm

Certainty.

If you had bothered to read your own link you would find (in red) DNA CANNOT: Determine the age or race of the donor

Thankyou halloween, I was just checking before making the same post myself.

jb1

Age yes, race groups no. Larger general race groups can be ruled out.

Not Thai vs Burmese, but those two vs English with reasonable certainty.

http://www.genebase.com/support/index.php?_m=knowledgebase&_a=viewarticle&kbarticleid=230

Your link is to a commercial genealogy site. If you choose to believe the generalisations and pseudo-science they present as a sales pitch, up to you.

[khunpa]

Unless they start focusing on the possibility that Thai-people could have done this, then they will never find any answers. I am not saying Thai-people did it... just saying... "Why do they not try and see that as a possibility?" in the attempt to solve this case.

[animatic]

DNA from semen can clearly rule out western involvement if tested.

Asian DNA and Western DNA are different .

So they could say now its not a westerner its an Asian(s)

http://www.iape.org/emanual/biological_evidence.htm

Certainty.

If you had bothered to read your own link you would find (in red) DNA CANNOT: Determine the age or race of the donor

Thankyou halloween, I was just checking before making the same post myself.

jb1

Age yes, race groups no. Larger general race groups can be ruled out.

Not Thai vs Burmese, but those two vs English with reasonable certainty.

http://www.genebase.com/support/index.php?_m=knowledgebase&_a=viewarticle&kbarticleid=230

Your link is to a commercial genealogy site. If you choose to believe the generalisations and pseudo-science they present as a sales pitch, up to you.

I looked at several sites and picked the one where the language was most comprehensible for the average joe.

Or you could try a medium level discussion...

http://www.nature.com/ng/journal/v36/n11s/full/ng1438.html

Edited September 18, 2014 by animatic

[halloween]

As this is a small island, why don't they ask for all residents to provide a DNA sample for testing. If the perpetrators have done a bunk, similar DNA will show up from family members. it may not even be necessary to test as refusal to supply a sample can be a very indicator of where to look.

BTW this has been done in the past with good results - can't remember where,possibly oz.

[kannot]

Thai workers don't generally leave hoes laying about. At the end of the work day the hoe goes home with the worker. I am guessing the hoe was bought to the beach with intent to do harm.

From my experience whenever clocking off time is they simply drop them to the floor. Have built two houses now and this is normal practice.

Does anyone know that the semen is not the male victims or have I missed that somewhere?

[ClutchClark]

As this is a small island, why don't they ask for all residents to provide a DNA sample for testing. If the perpetrators have done a bunk, similar DNA will show up from family members. it may not even be necessary to test as refusal to supply a sample can be a very indicator of where to look.

BTW this has been done in the past with good results - can't remember where,possibly oz.

I would never provide my DNA sample for anything without a court order.

Thank God I live in a country that respects ones right to privacy.

[halloween]

I looked at several sites and picked the one where the language was most comprehensible for the average joe.

If you find a police service anywhere that has announced that they are looking for a person of a certain race type based on a DNA sample, I would believe it.

[RJF]

Ok, for the Thai it would have been great to dump this on a Myanmar worker or a farang, but now that it seems fair to say that all this has been explored and turned negative, perhaps it would be worth it to look at the locals as well?

[halloween]

As this is a small island, why don't they ask for all residents to provide a DNA sample for testing. If the perpetrators have done a bunk, similar DNA will show up from family members. it may not even be necessary to test as refusal to supply a sample can be a very indicator of where to look.

BTW this has been done in the past with good results - can't remember where,possibly oz.

I would never provide my DNA sample for anything without a court order.

Thank God I live in a country that respects ones right to privacy.

unless you were on koh Tao at the time, you wouldn't be asked. OTOH, if you were, would you rather have your DNA tested or have your name plastered over newspapers from here to woop-woop as a police suspect in a rape-murder?

[Thai at Heart]

I keep posting it but whatever,

Somebody posted on Hannah's original Facebook stating why the where killed that night, they said that in the bar a local Thai was hitting on Hannah and Dave got in a argument with the Thai.

The Thai left and was hiding on the beach with a friend waiting for them to leave around AC bar.

Everybody I know on Koh Tao who works there left the same day because all bartenders are foreigners with no work permits, they all say this is what happened. It's sad you don't hear about this in the news.!

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Sometimes the simple explanations are the best.

However, if this is true, then all those bartenders should go and report this to the police. They have important evidence in a double murder case and a moral responsibility.

Running away like a bunch of cowardly kids because of no work permit is NOT AN OPTION.

In the worst case they would be deported back to their home country. Big deal. Two people are not going to make it back alive.

The police are looking for a double murderer.

Anyone got an email address to contact the coppers? If someone can read a Facebook page? Why haven't they?

Ever considered that being a foreigner taking info to the police is probably putting you right to the top of list of suspects and probably not good for your life expectancy.

[laobali]

You would think on a small island they would have this case wrapped up fairly quickly.

Anyone with half a brain and any knowledge of Thailand would not think that or make such a comment.

[ClutchClark]

As this is a small island, why don't they ask for all residents to provide a DNA sample for testing. If the perpetrators have done a bunk, similar DNA will show up from family members. it may not even be necessary to test as refusal to supply a sample can be a very indicator of where to look.

BTW this has been done in the past with good results - can't remember where,possibly oz.

I would never provide my DNA sample for anything without a court order.

Thank God I live in a country that respects ones right to privacy.

unless you were on koh Tao at the time, you wouldn't be asked. OTOH, if you were, would you rather have your DNA tested or have your name plastered over newspapers from here to woop-woop as a police suspect in a rape-murder?

The cost to DNA test the thousands of men on the island several days after this tragedy is a complete waste of limited resources so there is no need to worry about such a test.

But you do bring up a good point, the local police certainly love to run to the Press with every bit of news they can invent.

[ClutchClark]

You would think on a small island they would have this case wrapped up fairly quickly.

Anyone with half a brain and any knowledge of Thailand would not think that or make such a comment.

I will leave it to you to speak for those with half a brain but even those of us with a whole brain would tend to agree with you.

[animatic]

I looked at several sites and picked the one where the language was most comprehensible for the average joe.

If you find a police service anywhere that has announced that they are looking for a person of a certain race type based on a DNA sample, I would believe it.

My point was in ruling out ones to look for. English caucasians vs Thai/Burmese locals.

See also:

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/293/5529/489.short

[jimbeam1]

DNA tests would show the ethnicity. DNA tests could easily be linked to relatives of any suspect from Koh Tao.

This smells very much like locals did it and the police can't or won't investigate or arrest them.

And that is why the British Embassy (joke) should insist on Scotland Yard Investigators, both Police and Forensic teams should be called in. Although probably to late for forensics, as the area is probably sufficiently contaminated by now?

jb1

Thailand is a sovereign nation.

If the crime occurred to a Thai couple vacationing in Britain would the Thai Embassy have a "right" to insist it be investigated by the Thai Police?

Ofcourse not.

But most certainly a lot of pressure can and should be applied. Especially if the police force of the country involved were/are pronven to be Inept.

Which isn't Rocket science in this case.

jb1

[CockneyGit]

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DNA tests would show the ethnicity. DNA tests could easily be linked to relatives of any suspect from Koh Tao.

This smells very much like locals did it and the police can't or won't investigate or arrest them.

And that is why the British Embassy (joke) should insist on Scotland Yard Investigators, both Police and Forensic teams should be called in. Although probably to late for forensics, as the area is probably sufficiently contaminated by now?
jb1

Thailand is a sovereign nation.

If the crime occurred to a Thai couple vacationing in Britain would the Thai Embassy have a "right" to insist it be investigated by the Thai Police?

Ofcourse not.

The British police do not have a reputation of being bent and corrupt!

[wellred]

Why did the two brothers that were on holiday with the dead male decide to leave at such an early stage and without their companion? I smell huge amounts of bullshit.

It wasn't 2 guys it was 1 and he went to Bangkok to meet his brother. And as above suggests he's got bugger all to do with this. As his friend posted here yesterday he had known the deceased male since age 4 so very unlikely it was him.

[halloween]

As this is a small island, why don't they ask for all residents to provide a DNA sample for testing. If the perpetrators have done a bunk, similar DNA will show up from family members. it may not even be necessary to test as refusal to supply a sample can be a very indicator of where to look.

BTW this has been done in the past with good results - can't remember where,possibly oz.

I would never provide my DNA sample for anything without a court order.

Thank God I live in a country that respects ones right to privacy.

unless you were on koh Tao at the time, you wouldn't be asked. OTOH, if you were, would you rather have your DNA tested or have your name plastered over newspapers from here to woop-woop as a police suspect in a rape-murder?

The cost to DNA test the thousands of men on the island several days after this tragedy is a complete waste of limited resources so there is no need to worry about such a test.

But you do bring up a good point, the local police certainly love to run to the Press with every bit of news they can invent.

If you read my post again, you might notice I wrote there may not be a need to test. When faced with a community wide DNA test which will prove guilt, people have been known to confess. If that doesn't happen, those refusing are looked at very closely, even the "privacy rights" jerk-offs, and judges can be swayed to issue court orders.

Guess whose tests are done first?

Edited September 18, 2014 by halloween

[carter1882]

Thank Buddha the amateur sleuths of TV are not in charge of the investigation! They act as though the local police are complete bunglers. The police seem to me to be doing the correct things and not charging anyone without hard evidence. Let them get on with their job.

[wellred]

DNA tests would show the ethnicity. DNA tests could easily be linked to relatives of any suspect from Koh Tao.

This smells very much like locals did it and the police can't or won't investigate or arrest them.

Hopefully the press pick up on that and can pressure them to do that.

[Foxman888]

Why did the two brothers that were on holiday with the dead male decide to leave at such an early stage and without their companion? I smell huge amounts of bullshit.

Seeing as they were shortly stopped at BKK Airport i guess they had a flight to catch!!

Backpackers travel with different people/groups all the time. Its the nature of the game.

[ChinChanGamble]

They still haven't said if the blood on the hoe matched that of the victims. I would think they should be coming out with that first. They are trying to hard to blame someone and make arrests for the sake of it. It's also interesting that BBC are still stating the pair were captured on cctv when it was retracted earlier on, and also they mention that a motive may be that they were having sex on the beach which is taboo in Thai culture!

What rubbish. At 4am they would have reasonably expected to have complete privacy. Their actions wouldn't have upset anyone. They were clearly stalked by predatory males, and then raped and killed.

I don't know where all this 'upsetting' the locals comes from. I have seen Thai couples having sex in a local park at night while I was out running. Also walked in on students at it in a classroom once.

I was only stating what was being said on the BBC, I know Thailand well enough myself to know what's ok and what's not and what actually goes on!

[AYJAYDEE]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

DNA tests would show the ethnicity. DNA tests could easily be linked to relatives of any suspect from Koh Tao.

This smells very much like locals did it and the police can't or won't investigate or arrest them.

And that is why the British Embassy (joke) should insist on Scotland Yard Investigators, both Police and Forensic teams should be called in. Although probably to late for forensics, as the area is probably sufficiently contaminated by now?

jb1

Thailand is a sovereign nation.

If the crime occurred to a Thai couple vacationing in Britain would the Thai Embassy have a "right" to insist it be investigated by the Thai Police?

Ofcourse not.

The British police do not have a reputation of being bent and corrupt!

so you expect thailand to admit they have a corrupt police force and then call in outside help? wanna buy a bridge?

[steven23]

DNA from semen can clearly rule out western involvement if tested.

Asian DNA and Western DNA are different .

So they could say now its not a westerner its an Asian(s)

http://www.iape.org/emanual/biological_evidence.htm

It is not true. DNA cannot tell age and race of person

[Basil B]

Reporter on BBC news this morning very damming of Thai police handling of this case.

Said the Island was not sealed of as first reported.

But the most damming fact was the inability to secure the crime seen to protect the integrity of any evidence, ...nothing new there

[bluebluewater]

I must say I am wondering about this "next day" availability and reliability of DNA results here in Thailand. Do they really have forensic labs that can do that? They are not known for having the most advanced sciences.

Can they even do that in our western countries? I understand that this is a priority case but it still seems to me that I recall that this kinda testing can take a while (in the west I'm talking about now) even with everyone wanting to move this along quickly.

Can anyone give me the facts . . .

[Beetlejuice]

Why did the two brothers that were on holiday with the dead male decide to leave at such an early stage and without their companion? I smell huge amounts of bullshit.

It could be that the two brothers were not close friends with tragic victim, perhaps they only met each other when they arrived on the Island and left for Bangkok after the murders because it was part of the brother`s planned schedule and their return flights were already booked to leave shortly afterwards?

No point in jumping to conclusions at this stage.

Let us hope that whoever are the monsters that perpetrated this heinous crime against 2 innocent young people just enjoying their holiday are caught soon, as this is heartbreaking for sure.

[stoltmamma]

I don't care if the killer( or killers ) is thai , french or birman. What i want is that they find him and punish him for those horribles murders!

[SantiSuk]

Sky says:

2 samples of DNA were taken from Hannah's body. No matches with anyone else they have questioned/sampled and not even a match with murdered guy.

Theory that the two Bits were having sex not yet supported!

[GAZZPA]

could of been one killer easily.

the british couple go for a walk on the beach, they go behind the rocks to make out, and enjoy the quiet moment, the killer comes with the Hoe in his hand, and cracks the British man over the head knocking him out and to the ground. and then before the female can even scream is struck by the killer, WHACK, WHACK both tourists are down and no sound has been made..

while the girl is unconscious, the man drags the man into the ocean and drowns him, he then goes to the woman who is not dead yet, but unconscious and rapes her.. and then he kills her.. and he leaves..

leaves seamen, a bloodied hoe, and some dna behind? meaning probably not meditated by a someone who thought this through, but maybe some someone who was just lurking around, saw the couple and wanted a rape! and must have a fetist for murder.. which really wouldnt surprise me in thailand, criminals from all over the world has relocated to thailand and philipines to get away from their convictions in their own countries, and still have the fetish to kill..

Thank you Inspector Clouseau, it is so clear now. If only people in the world had your sparkling intellect and clarity of vision.

Just a point though, it could have also been 2 or more people right? It could also have been a mix of Asian and Western people, wouldn't that baffle everyone,, or how about they were murdered and then raped by someone walking past post murder. At this stage nobody knows.

So, probably best to leave the graffic amateur detective work alone and see what transpires.

RIP the poor young couple, whatever happened it was horrific. Hope they catch the sickos very soon.