Airport Rail Link a model of failure: Thai editorial

[SoiBiker]

I used it just now. Plenty of passengers, both tourists and locals. Standing room only, in fact. It will be missed.

[BangkokHank]

Why they had two types of trains, commuter and express, I don't know. The journey time difference was minimal.

Of course it doesn't make sense to have two types of trains. They have two types of trains so that they can charge tourists a lot more than they charge local commuters. It just wouldn't be Thailand if they didn't at least TRY to charge foreigners more.

[SoiBiker]

Plenty of tourists seemed to have found their way into the city line today.

[Asiantravel]

Never mind! there are other transport methods

BUT this shouldn't be an excuse for passengers arriving in Bangkok to have to rely on thieving taxidrivers as their only means of getting to their destination.( like it was in the old Don Muang days )

There is absolutely no excuse why they can't temporarily adopt the Seoul Incheon International Airport transport model by introducing a fleet of limousine buses, which are inexpensive, comfortable and run like clockwork. This transportation system works very well .

http://www.seoulstopover.com/program/limousine.asp

DM always had and still has a rail station right next door with a flyover from the mezzanine level of the airport. Fares were B7 to Hualamphong and I always got filthy looks paying with a B1000 fresh from the ATM.

Oh yes, I have also had those filthy looks as if as a rich foreigner you are not meant to know about that alternative and very cheap method of transport. How would any newly arrived foreigner at DM in the old days, possibly know about that train? It wasn't mentioned anywhere. No signs or any info - only those taxi touts blocking your way as you exited the arrivals hall.

There was even a bus service and I don't know about now but in the days when DM was still the only airport getting any information from airport staff about where to catch the bus and the routes was like getting blood out of a stone and that made me even more determined not to use taxis.

[kaorop]

Is it an ideal system? Definitely not. However it easily beats sitting in a taxi for hours. I have used it several times and have never had a problem, I must say.

In over 20 times, at all times, never sat for hours.

I would say my experience is far more prevalent than yours,

fact is

bad location,

awkward for luggage,

physical effort required

quite often have use secondary transport.

Verses lining up, plunking yourself and travelling companions in a taxi and going door to door plus having help with luggage after a long flight.

Its worth the few extra baht to most.

Good for short flight, experienced in bkk, light luggage travellers im sure.

[Patje]

Sigh ...... and once again : Thailand ..... it starts with the people .......

The one that chose that slogan should be awarded !!

Fits on almost anything in this LOS

[fredKroket]

It's called "Closing the stable door after the horse has bolted", very common in Thailand. Don't do anything until there is a problem, rather than prevent a problem.

[halloween]

Oh yes, I have also had those filthy looks as if as a rich foreigner you are not meant to know about that alternative and very cheap method of transport. How would any newly arrived foreigner at DM in the old days, possibly know about that train? It wasn't mentioned anywhere. No signs or any info - only those taxi touts blocking your way as you exited the arrivals hall.

There was even a bus service and I don't know about now but in the days when DM was still the only airport getting any information from airport staff about where to catch the bus and the routes was like getting blood out of a stone and that made me even more determined not to use taxis.

Lonely Planet.

[Expat Girl]

No need for an enquiry as everyone knows the problem is with the State Railway of Thailand. It should be operated by BTS or similar private operator.

I don't disgree with that at all.

When you consider the "track record" (pun intended) of SRT, this news about the airport rail link should come as no surprise.

trainthennow.jpg

Their existing rolling stock gets the minimum amount of advance planning, maintenance and upgrading. The derailmants and accidents that happen with alarming frequency in this country indicate that the tracks themselves get the same level of attention.

There will be hell to pay if the airport link goes down for a year. Even though it may not be particularly effective for its airport purpose, I know of many Thais who have moved into the vicinities of the stations and rely on the "commuter" trains for transportation.

It is amazing that such a vital piece of urban infrastructure can become so neglected... or maybe not, because this is Amazing Thailand.

Agree with both of these comments, a private operator will have no doubt provided a greater level of maintenance given they have a lot more vested in making services run to keep revenue up, particularly if shareholders are involved.

Is the current operator, SRT, a subsidiary of the main SRT organisation, be interested to know if the Airport Train revenue is being fed into the normal passenger network to keep that up and running ?

[Nickymaster]

I actually loved the airport raillink as it is a hassle free trip into town when you have little luggage (and since i lived at victory monument).

But the planning has been so poor. You get dropped off at one of the stations, which had no escalators or elevators at the start, and then you are in the middle of the city at a busy road. No follow up travel opportunities, information, or taxi stands. Really nice wgen you have big bags and a couple of tired kids...

I think you would be able to find a taxi in downtown Bangkok.

Please got to Phaya Thai station during rush hour while it rains and let me know how easy it was to find an empty taxi and how easy it was to get your travel bags in the back in one of the busier roads .

Now imagine doing that after a 10 hour flight with little sleep while being in a new city for the first time in your life.

Hint: this is not how people on a holiday like to experience their first hour in a new country.

You have some valid points in your earlier post but under the circumstances you describe, finding a taxi could be difficult in many countries. I would suggest people to take a taxi when they had a 10 hour flight with little sleep it is raining and rush hour. (and have a few bags)

[atyclb]

Lots of commuters will be disappointed if/when the Airlink shuts down.

BTW since when is 4 + 4 = 9 ?

"pulled four of the nine trains out of service, causing delays and increasing the workload for the equipment still in operation. Now the four trains remaining in use also need to be taken"

indeed 4+4=9; source; obama common core curriculum.

thai's want to emulate the americans

Edited September 18, 2014 by atyclb

[than]

A Taksin regime mega project with mega corruption problem........

[ramrod711]

But the fact is that, from the time the Thaksin administration signed the first contracts in 2005 to its official opening in 2014, no one seems to have had any sensible plans for this infrastructure project.

No sensible plans? Seems to be a hallmark of most Shinawatra projects. But what the heck, they were elected so it's ok, doesn't matter how much money was flushed down the toilet.

The rail link itself is fine. The problem here is the lack of maintenance and that is the responsibility of the SRT. Lets also not forget that there was 2 coups and 4 administrations which drastically different plans since then.

BANGKOK: -- The Airport Rail Link has faced an identity crisis from the start. During the past four years the service has failed to fulfil its tasks of taking tourists to and from the airport and serving city commuters. Now accumulating maintenance problems have escalated to being beyond repair. The public was stunned to learn that the system could be shut for a year if management can't find another solution to get the trains running again.

"In the past 4 years service has failed" the article states. Who was in government for 3 of those years? I would like someone to take some responsibility, please. The Shins have been government for most of the past 12 years, according to some they are responsible for everything good and nothing bad. Apologists abound, billions lost on projects and schemes, could have happened to anyone, not their fault. What a load of crap.

[Thai at Heart]

How can any public entity let the maintenence of such a new asset get to the point that it has to close?

I mean for gods sake, this elephant has been sitting in the room since it opened.

[Lakegeneve]

I noticed a lot of work on an overhead rail system close to Don Muang recently. Is this the Suvarnabhumi/Don Muang airport link or something completely different? Ital -Thai were the contractors of course. Will those involved have learnt from the current debacle?

This is the new MRT Red Line.

Ah, no it is not.

It is the SRT Dark Red suburban line from Bang Sue to Rangsit. (Eventually it will run from Thammasat Uni to Hualamphong, Wong Wian Yai and onto Mahachai. The SRT is already needing to amend the design to accommodate a 4th track on the viaduct under construction instead of the 3 currently in the contract.

Stupidly, they didn't integrate this and what will be the ARL extension to DMK. So we'll end up with two sets of stations and two sets of lines running alongside each other!!! Both lines will have different gauges! Dark Red is narrow and ARL is standard.

You can read more about the SRT Red lines here (#103 & #104), http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/406991-the-new-skytrain/page-5

And I won't even mention that the SRT still plans to extend the SRT Light Red line (now suspended) to run parallel to the ARL and build new stations alongside the current ARL stations......

Edited September 18, 2014 by Lakegeneve

[Bob12345]

But the fact is that, from the time the Thaksin administration signed the first contracts in 2005 to its official opening in 2014, no one seems to have had any sensible plans for this infrastructure project.

No sensible plans? Seems to be a hallmark of most Shinawatra projects. But what the heck, they were elected so it's ok, doesn't matter how much money was flushed down the toilet.

The rail link itself is fine. The problem here is the lack of maintenance and that is the responsibility of the SRT. Lets also not forget that there was 2 coups and 4 administrations which drastically different plans since then.

BANGKOK: -- The Airport Rail Link has faced an identity crisis from the start. During the past four years the service has failed to fulfil its tasks of taking tourists to and from the airport and serving city commuters. Now accumulating maintenance problems have escalated to being beyond repair. The public was stunned to learn that the system could be shut for a year if management can't find another solution to get the trains running again.

"In the past 4 years service has failed" the article states. Who was in government for 3 of those years? I would like someone to take some responsibility, please. The Shins have been government for most of the past 12 years, according to some they are responsible for everything good and nothing bad. Apologists abound, billions lost on projects and schemes, could have happened to anyone, not their fault. What a load of crap.

The ARL is being managed by SRT. So you can blame the SRT for mismanagement.

The SRT is in operations for 124 years already and who was mostly in government during that period of time?

So if you blame the Shins for not cleaning up the SRT during their time in government you also need to blame the Abhishit government, the interim military government, the current military government, and every other government during that period. But you dont as that doesnt suit your agenda.

Could have happened to anyone? It seems it did happen to everyone, or you want to tell a story about how the thai railways were an example of good management before Taksin won his first election? What a load of crap.

[Lakegeneve]

• I live near this line in Thonglor/Ekkamai and expected that there would be a station serving that large residential community and the many businesses, big and small, on New Phetburi Road. Wrong. In fact, mind-bogglingly, between Ramkamhaeng and Makkasan, a distance of several kilometres, there is not a single station, and further out the gaps between stations are also ridiculously large. To build an urban railway without frequent stops for commuters at centres of population and commerce is absolutely ridiculous, but that's what they did.

To be fair, new statons could probably be added at a later date as need arises.

There is a lot of undeveloped land between Suvarnabumi and Hua Mak and I guess they will probably add more stations as the land gets built on and the population increases.

To be more fair, the ARL is a suburban commuter line, not a metro line. That is why stations are spaced further apart. It will never have metro style frequencies and stations are built to eventually acomoodate 10 car trains.

Agreed though that a station at RCA entrance or near Klong Tan (depot location) would have been useful. Thonglor will eventually have the BMA Grey monorail line running down it so you'll just need to wait for that to be approved (currently under feasibility study). See post #173 for an explanation of the Grey line route, http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/406991-the-new-skytrain/page-7

[outsider]

Once again, good morning. I have said this before and I will say it again. Look at the Malaysia's KLIA Express.

What ARL and anyone involved with it should do - take a flight, land at Kuala Lumpur International Airport, take the KLIA Express to KL Sentral (the hub of most rail transport in the city of KUL - a REAL hub, I must add!), take some connecting trains for good measure, and then return to KLIA the same way. You WILL realise what an ugly farce the ARL really is. I am curious to see how anyone is going to 'save face' on this huge FAIL!

[Lakegeneve]

But the fact is that, from the time the Thaksin administration signed the first contracts in 2005 to its official opening in 2014, no one seems to have had any sensible plans for this infrastructure project.

Poor editing by The Nation. The ARL opened in August 2010, two years late.

[eldragon]

Lots of commuters will be disappointed if/when the Airlink shuts down.

BTW since when is 4 + 4 = 9 ?

"pulled four of the nine trains out of service, causing delays and increasing the workload for the equipment still in operation. Now the four trains remaining in use also need to be taken"

I was also wondering how the author arrived at the rail opening in 2014...

"But the fact is that, from the time the Thaksin administration signed the first contracts in 2005 to its official opening in 2014, no one seems to have had any sensible plans for this infrastructure project."

[p_brownstone]

Never quite understood the need for Makkasan express trains, but I do use the city line to Phaya Thai often; with pretty painless (unless lugging a suitcase) transfer to BTS it made for a perfect way to get to BKK. I can reliably get from Ari to both DMK and BKK in ~40 minutes, which is great if you travel a lot. Be a shame if they scrap the ARL.

The express is perhaps the biggest joke of the whole system. Absolutely pointless, about 10 mins quicker than the Cityline and just not needed with the airport big relatively close to town.

I have actually been on a crowded Cityline train that had to wait for an express train to pass by WITHOUT A SINGLE PASSENGER onboard.

The ARL won't be scraped. The Cityline is too popular for that to happen and passenger numbers are only going to increase when the system gets back to normal and headway is reduced.

But they most certainly should scrap the express. Immediately.

The "Express" trains were obviously a total waste of resources virtually from day one and the train sets should have been utilised for the much more popular - and financially lucrative - City Line after only a few months at best.

Instead we now have the situation that both "sets" - Express and City - have reached their limit for kilometers traveled, but if one compares the statistics for passengers carried vs kilometers traveled between the two the difference is huge.

Patrick

[Bob12345]

Once again, good morning. I have said this before and I will say it again. Look at the Malaysia's KLIA Express.

What ARL and anyone involved with it should do - take a flight, land at Kuala Lumpur International Airport, take the KLIA Express to KL Sentral (the hub of most rail transport in the city of KUL - a REAL hub, I must add!), take some connecting trains for good measure, and then return to KLIA the same way. You WILL realise what an ugly farce the ARL really is. I am curious to see how anyone is going to 'save face' on this huge FAIL!

Good comment.

Thailand is the hub of hubs.

Until they actually need to build a hub, and then they fail miserably.

[taony]

Meanwhile in Beijing, progress keeps on progressing:

http://www.theguardian.com/cities/2014/sep/10/-sp-beijing-subway-china-metro-queues-ticket-investment

"Work on the Chinese capital’s first line started in the 1960s and the vast majority of it opened in the last decade. Yet, at 465km long, it has already outgrown the Tube network by more than 50km. By 2020, an extra 400bn yuan (£40bn) of investment will see it more than double to 1,000km, according to Chinese media. The addition of 17 new lines will make it one of the world’s longest networks."

500km in 6 years! But we get to keep on talking about who owns which color line and how have the plans changed in the last five years that people have been doing not much more than talking about it!

[Lakegeneve]

Once again, good morning. I have said this before and I will say it again. Look at the Malaysia's KLIA Express.

What ARL and anyone involved with it should do - take a flight, land at Kuala Lumpur International Airport, take the KLIA Express to KL Sentral (the hub of most rail transport in the city of KUL - a REAL hub, I must add!), take some connecting trains for good measure, and then return to KLIA the same way. You WILL realise what an ugly farce the ARL really is. I am curious to see how anyone is going to 'save face' on this huge FAIL!

Your point is a good one regarding the excellent KLIA and the connectivity at KL Sentral (especially with the new MRT Klang Valley lines being built)

However, as I've mentioned to you before elsewhere your view neglects a few realities about the future.

1) The ARL was also planned to be extended to DMK airport (that extension is currently 2 years late, the tender has yet to go out),

2) The new huge SRT Intercity Terminus that is being built at Bang Sue - the ARL ext will connect to this

3) The huge Makkasan Railyard redevelopment which make Makkasan a hub of transport with the ARL as the most important transport connection after the MRT,

4) Makksan (CAT) station was built with the idea that it would become the main future station for the Eastern HSR line (the most viable of the HSR lines). That is still planned to be the case,

5) The future light Blue line will run through Makkasan station

6) The ARL will eventually connect to the following lines (look at the map below);

a) Yellow Line,

b ) Grey Line

c) Light Blue Line,

d) Orange Line

e) Dark Red Line,

f) Light Red line,

g) Brown Line,

h) Pink Line

Is that enough connections for you??? (I've left out the current MRT subway and BTS connections).

See how the ARL provides a pivotal and useful main corridor of connections to other metro and commuter lines and all of BKK. As a commuter line is enables people to travel from one side of the city to another. The future Airport Express (DMK- Bang Sue-PT-Makksan-BKK) will be a quick transfer between both airports.

None of this is to say that the ARL is perfect, nor that the CAT is well designed. There are plenty of flaws with both. In a short term view the ARL seems to isolated and Makkasan looks too big. Fast forward 10 years and the ARL connects with 10 lines!!! And go forward 20 years and Makkasan station will be a hub of transport and will probably be regarded as not big enough.

The Makkasan Railyard redevelopment plans (middle render)

Future network (more info, http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/406991-the-new-skytrain/page-12)

[Lakegeneve]

Never quite understood the need for Makkasan express trains, but I do use the city line to Phaya Thai often; with pretty painless (unless lugging a suitcase) transfer to BTS it made for a perfect way to get to BKK. I can reliably get from Ari to both DMK and BKK in ~40 minutes, which is great if you travel a lot. Be a shame if they scrap the ARL.

The express is perhaps the biggest joke of the whole system. Absolutely pointless, about 10 mins quicker than the Cityline and just not needed with the airport big relatively close to town.

I have actually been on a crowded Cityline train that had to wait for an express train to pass by WITHOUT A SINGLE PASSENGER onboard.

The ARL won't be scraped. The Cityline is too popular for that to happen and passenger numbers are only going to increase when the system gets back to normal and headway is reduced.

But they most certainly should scrap the express. Immediately.

The "Express" trains were obviously a total waste of resources virtually from day one and the train sets should have been utilised for the much more popular - and financially lucrative - City Line after only a few months at best.

Instead we now have the situation that both "sets" - Express and City - have reached their limit for kilometers traveled, but if one compares the statistics for passengers carried vs kilometers traveled between the two the difference is huge.

Patrick

The business plan that was finalised in 2005 was flawed. It banked too much on the Express service after looking at the Hong Kong model. BKKs ARL was never going to be HK's Airport Line due to the obvious differences in size and density of the cities and that the CAT is not located in Siam (as an equivalent example).

The MOF limited funds for purchasing rolling stock and instead of buying say 7 Cityline trains and 3 Express, they settled on 5 Cityline and 4 Express. The Cityline ended up having much faster pax growth than was envisaged (it was too successful) while the Express (initially it had 15 min headways while Cityline was 20 mins) was never going to get enough pax, though once the PT Express opened it improved significantly. Until then, yes it is a a waste but then many face saving measures are in asia.

Once the ARL ext is built (2019 ish) the Express will generate sufficient pax.

[outsider]

Once again, good morning. I have said this before and I will say it again. Look at the Malaysia's KLIA Express.

What ARL and anyone involved with it should do - take a flight, land at Kuala Lumpur International Airport, take the KLIA Express to KL Sentral (the hub of most rail transport in the city of KUL - a REAL hub, I must add!), take some connecting trains for good measure, and then return to KLIA the same way. You WILL realise what an ugly farce the ARL really is. I am curious to see how anyone is going to 'save face' on this huge FAIL!

Your point is a good one regarding the excellent KLIA and the connectivity at KL Sentral (especially with the new MRT Klang Valley lines being built)

However, as I've mentioned to you before elsewhere your view neglects a few realities about the future.

1) The ARL was also planned to be extended to DMK airport (that extension is currently 2 years late, the tender has yet to go out),

2) The new huge SRT Intercity Terminus that is being built at Bang Sue - the ARL ext will connect to this

3) The huge Makkasan Railyard redevelopment which make Makkasan a hub of transport with the ARL as the most important transport connection after the MRT,

4) Makksan (CAT) station was built with the idea that it would become the main future station for the Eastern HSR line (the most viable of the HSR lines). That is still planned to be the case,

5) The future light Blue line will run through Makkasan station

6) The ARL will eventually connect to the following lines (look at the map below);

a) Yellow Line,

b ) Grey Line

c) Light Blue Line,

d) Orange Line

e) Dark Red Line,

f) Light Red line,

g) Brown Line,

h) Pink Line

Is that enough connections for you??? (I've left out the current MRT subway and BTS connections).

See how the ARL provides a pivotal and useful main corridor of connections to other metro and commuter lines and all of BKK. As a commuter line is enables people to travel from one side of the city to another. The future Airport Express (DMK- Bang Sue-PT-Makksan-BKK) will be a quick transfer between both airports.

None of this is to say that the ARL is perfect, nor that the CAT is well designed. There are plenty of flaws with both. In a short term view the ARL seems to isolated and Makkasan looks too big. Fast forward 10 years and the ARL connects with 10 lines!!! And go forward 20 years and Makkasan station will be a hub of transport and will probably be regarded as not big enough.

The Makkasan Railyard redevelopment plans (middle render)

Future network (more info, http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/406991-the-new-skytrain/page-12)

Thank you for the detailed plans on Thailand's future. However, like your previous crystal-ball efforts elsewhere, I'm afraid your good and kind efforts are somewhat wasted. I approached the subject from a consumer's perspective. That is my view as a consumer. I don't 'know the future' as I am obviously not an industry expert like you. Well I hope you are - you make a good job trying to sound like one.

Let me try to bring it down to your level - if you had bad service at a reputable restaurant, you will be unhappy and 'neglect a few realities' about how the server had a bad night with his/her partner which resulted in the bad service. You will 'neglect a few realities' that the cook is in a bad mood and hence the food is less that what you expected it to be. If you bought a car, and it broke down often, you will complain/change it and 'neglect a few realities' such as how the manufacturer is actually upgrading its production facilities, and that cars from this manufacturer will be examplary in 10 years time, while at the same time taking into consideration some realities about the manufacturer's operational parameters and future expansion plans. I hope you get my point. Can't bring it any lower.

The fact is, ARL is a failure now and that's that. A fact. Get it??? I will continue to make parallels between ARL and KLIA Express in the future if such threads exist, and you are free to scroll past my post. If one day ARL becomes more efficient than KILA Express, I will admit so. As a consumer. But right now, it is a massive FAIL, so try your best to deal with the fact.

I will not try to stop you from trying to sell Thailand's rail transport plans here on TVF but please stay on-point in a discussion. Else, try to find a more appropriate platform for your presentation on 'Thailand's Rail Transport in 20 Years Time'. Go play with other people's posts. Try to sound smart elsewhere.

[toybits]

I don't know why the OP thinks the Airport Link is such a disaster? I rely on this service every time I fly into Suwannaphum. The problem is NOT the train system itself but the Management! The management should not have allowed scheduled maintenance and repair to be delayed. The system does not run from midnight to dawn. Maintenance repairs COULD have been done during those hours when the system was not used by commuters.

[rubl]

But the fact is that, from the time the Thaksin administration signed the first contracts in 2005 to its official opening in 2014, no one seems to have had any sensible plans for this infrastructure project.

No sensible plans? Seems to be a hallmark of most Shinawatra projects. But what the heck, they were elected so it's ok, doesn't matter how much money was flushed down the toilet.

The rail link itself is fine. The problem here is the lack of maintenance and that is the responsibility of the SRT. Lets also not forget that there was 2 coups and 4 administrations which drastically different plans since then.

'drastically different plans'? Pray elaborate, tell us about the different plans.

[rubl]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

But the fact is that, from the time the Thaksin administration signed the first contracts in 2005 to its official opening in 2014, no one seems to have had any sensible plans for this infrastructure project.

No sensible plans? Seems to be a hallmark of most Shinawatra projects. But what the heck, they were elected so it's ok, doesn't matter how much money was flushed down the toilet.

Let's be fair....there was also another military coup and Abhisit Democrat Party Government in that timespan. What was their contribution to a better maintained system? By the time you get to the Yingluck government (cut short by another coup), the Airport Link was already a legacy system in trouble.

Plus a year lost under Samak/Somchai, etc., etc.

None of this really matters I think.

As an Airport Link the SRT Airport Link seems of use by people with almost no luggage only. For people who live close to any of the stations it just as good as the MRT/BTS, maybe less frequent only.

What seems strange is the handling of 'maintenance'. At the begin someone decided that nine trains would be enough. It would be interesting to see how someone came to that conclusion. Also with all nine trains starting operation at about the same time, there should have been 'shifted' maintenance plans already. If two trains at a time could have had 'minor' maintenance even a bit ahead of 'major' maintenance than at any time more trains would have been available.

I'm still wondering about SRT comments on needing a full years including six months planning/bidding/allocating. Somehow I got the impression that started on the very day the trains really needed major maintenance rather than six months before.

[Boo]

off topic post removed