Airport Rail Link a model of failure: Thai editorial

[SamuiRes]

Sadly infrastructure projects here never seem to allow for ongoing running and maintenance costs. Samui has a few examples. Take the dozens of shining new street lights near to the Pier in Bangrak. If one works now you are lucky. Shades and bulbs broken and never replaced. So dark at night people have been killed on this stretch of road. Look at the promenade around Chaweng Lake. All the flowers originally planted died and were never replaced and the walls are crumbling - some dangerously so. Look at the roads - even those supposedly re-laid as the one from Bandon Hospital to the Airport. Started falling to pieces within days of completion and is now just a mass of poor quality repairs.

[SoiBiker]

Once again, good morning. I have said this before and I will say it again. Look at the Malaysia's KLIA Express.

And then look how much it costs.

I'd rather keep paying 35 baht to get to the airport, rather than 350.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Stupidly, they didn't integrate this and what will be the ARL extension to DMK. So we'll end up with two sets of stations and two sets of lines running alongside each other!!!

Wow!!!

And I won't even mention that the SRT still plans to extend the SRT Light Red line (now suspended) to run parallel to the ARL and build new stations alongside the current ARL stations......

Double Wow!!!

[Lakegeneve]

Once again, good morning. I have said this before and I will say it again. Look at the Malaysia's KLIA Express.

What ARL and anyone involved with it should do - take a flight, land at Kuala Lumpur International Airport, take the KLIA Express to KL Sentral (the hub of most rail transport in the city of KUL - a REAL hub, I must add!), take some connecting trains for good measure, and then return to KLIA the same way. You WILL realise what an ugly farce the ARL really is. I am curious to see how anyone is going to 'save face' on this huge FAIL!

Your point is a good one regarding the excellent KLIA and the connectivity at KL Sentral (especially with the new MRT Klang Valley lines being built)

However, as I've mentioned to you before elsewhere your view neglects a few realities about the future.

1) The ARL was also planned to be extended to DMK airport (that extension is currently 2 years late, the tender has yet to go out),

2) The new huge SRT Intercity Terminus that is being built at Bang Sue - the ARL ext will connect to this

3) The huge Makkasan Railyard redevelopment which make Makkasan a hub of transport with the ARL as the most important transport connection after the MRT,

4) Makksan (CAT) station was built with the idea that it would become the main future station for the Eastern HSR line (the most viable of the HSR lines). That is still planned to be the case,

5) The future light Blue line will run through Makkasan station

6) The ARL will eventually connect to the following lines (look at the map below);

a) Yellow Line,

b ) Grey Line

c) Light Blue Line,

d) Orange Line

e) Dark Red Line,

f) Light Red line,

g) Brown Line,

h) Pink Line

Is that enough connections for you??? (I've left out the current MRT subway and BTS connections).

See how the ARL provides a pivotal and useful main corridor of connections to other metro and commuter lines and all of BKK. As a commuter line is enables people to travel from one side of the city to another. The future Airport Express (DMK- Bang Sue-PT-Makksan-BKK) will be a quick transfer between both airports.

None of this is to say that the ARL is perfect, nor that the CAT is well designed. There are plenty of flaws with both. In a short term view the ARL seems to isolated and Makkasan looks too big. Fast forward 10 years and the ARL connects with 10 lines!!! And go forward 20 years and Makkasan station will be a hub of transport and will probably be regarded as not big enough.

The Makkasan Railyard redevelopment plans (middle render)

Future network (more info, http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/406991-the-new-skytrain/page-12)

Thank you for the detailed plans on Thailand's future. However, like your previous crystal-ball efforts elsewhere, I'm afraid your good and kind efforts are somewhat wasted. I approached the subject from a consumer's perspective. That is my view as a consumer. I don't 'know the future' as I am obviously not an industry expert like you. Well I hope you are - you make a good job trying to sound like one.

Let me try to bring it down to your level - if you had bad service at a reputable restaurant, you will be unhappy and 'neglect a few realities' about how the server had a bad night with his/her partner which resulted in the bad service. You will 'neglect a few realities' that the cook is in a bad mood and hence the food is less that what you expected it to be. If you bought a car, and it broke down often, you will complain/change it and 'neglect a few realities' such as how the manufacturer is actually upgrading its production facilities, and that cars from this manufacturer will be examplary in 10 years time, while at the same time taking into consideration some realities about the manufacturer's operational parameters and future expansion plans. I hope you get my point. Can't bring it any lower.

The fact is, ARL is a failure now and that's that. A fact. Get it??? I will continue to make parallels between ARL and KLIA Express in the future if such threads exist, and you are free to scroll past my post. If one day ARL becomes more efficient than KILA Express, I will admit so. As a consumer. But right now, it is a massive FAIL, so try your best to deal with the fact.

I will not try to stop you from trying to sell Thailand's rail transport plans here on TVF but please stay on-point in a discussion. Else, try to find a more appropriate platform for your presentation on 'Thailand's Rail Transport in 20 Years Time'. Go play with other people's posts. Try to sound smart elsewhere.

A few things, and this is from a regular user (consumer as you term it).

Firstly, I'm not giving or selling you detailed plans on Thailands future. I'm limiting my response to Bangkok and the future metro & commute network. Attempting to put the ARL in a context. You basically expressed that the ARL doesn't connect with a hub or anything transport wise. That is incorrect. As I explained, Makkasan will be a future hub for the east, Bang Sue for the north and south, DMK and the ARL will connect to 10 lines. So clearly your lack of connectivity assertion is completely wrong and patently you don't know what is being built or planned for the next few years.

When one takes a medium term view rather than being short sighted that cannot see the whole picture. You seem ot be doing what most TV members rightly criticize Thai decision makers for, short term thinking and a lack of integration. By any measure, once the extension is complete, the ARL will be connected to all transport lines. If as a consumer you don't want to buy into a product that will have such ubiquitous connectivity just because of narrow, short term thinking, then that is your choice.

You are making the mistake that former BMA Gov Samak did back in 2001 when he said that 'the BTS was ugly, noisy and no one was using it (back in 2000 hardly anyone was) and that it didn't connect to anything important'. He completely neglected to think about the future planned BTS extensions or that the BTS would connect with other future planned lines.

Secondly, the ARL is not a failure. You are entitled to your opinion and you don't have to obviously use it anymore than you are compelled to return to a restaurant or use that same car with mechanical problems. The reason it is not a failure is that pax growth has been greater than projections which is why peak hr services have been packed well before the maintenance issue and reduced rolling stock. Plenty of people use it, it carries 1.5m pax a month. By any logical reasoning that is not a failure as a transport system.

Now that doesn't at all mean that the ARL doesn't have flaws, as I stated there are many, or had not been mismanaged, which it has. Clearly, the long maintenance scheduling has been severely mishandled. Though the reasons are more complex than given in the article. It comes down to combination of dysfunctional management, a lack of planning, previous parts shortages impacting inventories but is actually more about adequate finances not being available due to MOF restrictions and the change of govt. However, the buck has to stop with hopeless SRTET management who should be held accountable regardless of all of the reasons.

And your car analogy is actually missing the point completely, there is nothing wrong with the ARL rolling stock. You are complaining about the ARL which is a transport system involving different components and the way it is managed. In this case in relation to maintenance issues. You are are not complaining about the quality of the Siemens trains. A better analogy may have been about a poorly managed new expressway that is half built in length and which is causing damage to vehicles due to a lack of maintenance, thus requiring lanes to be progressively shut down. Or an airline having to reduce services due to mismanaging their long haul maintenance schedule which is actually more on point to this issue.

Thirdly, I agreed with you that the KLIA Express (ERL) offers an excellent service. However the comparisons may not be so useful - there are many other airport lines in thw world which would be a more suitable comparison. The ERL operates for an airport that is 60kms away from Sentral. The ARL is half the distance. The KLIA Airport line also opened later than planned (as did the recent extension to KLIA 2) and had some initial teething problems related to signalling and ticketing. It has also had a major accident with two trains colliding in 2010, the ARL has not. (Though in fairness the ERL opened in 2002 and the ARL in 2010 and give it time and it could have an accident).

So your wonderful KLIA ERL is not perfect either. BTW, botht he BTS and MRT has major accidents in their first 4 years of operations - train colliding. The ARL has yet to experience such. That doesn't make the BTS or MRT a failure anymore than it makes the ARL absent of problems.

The summary is that it is fine to criticise and there is plenty to be critical about in relation to the ARL. However, good critical analysis takes some attempt at insight as to what are the specific problems and why have they occurred and importantly what is the context. None of which you seem that concerned about as you just seem to want to neglect facts and reality. I was attempting (in vain it seems) not so much to sound smart but just to provide a degree of contextual analysis for you in addressing your baseless issues.

You actually completely missed all of the main problems with the ARL (of which there are many) and made irrelevant assertions which have no basis in fact.

[outsider]

Once again, good morning. I have said this before and I will say it again. Look at the Malaysia's KLIA Express.

What ARL and anyone involved with it should do - take a flight, land at Kuala Lumpur International Airport, take the KLIA Express to KL Sentral (the hub of most rail transport in the city of KUL - a REAL hub, I must add!), take some connecting trains for good measure, and then return to KLIA the same way. You WILL realise what an ugly farce the ARL really is. I am curious to see how anyone is going to 'save face' on this huge FAIL!

Your point is a good one regarding the excellent KLIA and the connectivity at KL Sentral (especially with the new MRT Klang Valley lines being built)

However, as I've mentioned to you before elsewhere your view neglects a few realities about the future.

1) The ARL was also planned to be extended to DMK airport (that extension is currently 2 years late, the tender has yet to go out),

2) The new huge SRT Intercity Terminus that is being built at Bang Sue - the ARL ext will connect to this

3) The huge Makkasan Railyard redevelopment which make Makkasan a hub of transport with the ARL as the most important transport connection after the MRT,

4) Makksan (CAT) station was built with the idea that it would become the main future station for the Eastern HSR line (the most viable of the HSR lines). That is still planned to be the case,

5) The future light Blue line will run through Makkasan station

6) The ARL will eventually connect to the following lines (look at the map below);

a) Yellow Line,

b ) Grey Line

c) Light Blue Line,

d) Orange Line

e) Dark Red Line,

f) Light Red line,

g) Brown Line,

h) Pink Line

Is that enough connections for you??? (I've left out the current MRT subway and BTS connections).

See how the ARL provides a pivotal and useful main corridor of connections to other metro and commuter lines and all of BKK. As a commuter line is enables people to travel from one side of the city to another. The future Airport Express (DMK- Bang Sue-PT-Makksan-BKK) will be a quick transfer between both airports.

None of this is to say that the ARL is perfect, nor that the CAT is well designed. There are plenty of flaws with both. In a short term view the ARL seems to isolated and Makkasan looks too big. Fast forward 10 years and the ARL connects with 10 lines!!! And go forward 20 years and Makkasan station will be a hub of transport and will probably be regarded as not big enough.

The Makkasan Railyard redevelopment plans (middle render)

Future network (more info, http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/406991-the-new-skytrain/page-12)

Thank you for the detailed plans on Thailand's future. However, like your previous crystal-ball efforts elsewhere, I'm afraid your good and kind efforts are somewhat wasted. I approached the subject from a consumer's perspective. That is my view as a consumer. I don't 'know the future' as I am obviously not an industry expert like you. Well I hope you are - you make a good job trying to sound like one.

Let me try to bring it down to your level - if you had bad service at a reputable restaurant, you will be unhappy and 'neglect a few realities' about how the server had a bad night with his/her partner which resulted in the bad service. You will 'neglect a few realities' that the cook is in a bad mood and hence the food is less that what you expected it to be. If you bought a car, and it broke down often, you will complain/change it and 'neglect a few realities' such as how the manufacturer is actually upgrading its production facilities, and that cars from this manufacturer will be examplary in 10 years time, while at the same time taking into consideration some realities about the manufacturer's operational parameters and future expansion plans. I hope you get my point. Can't bring it any lower.

The fact is, ARL is a failure now and that's that. A fact. Get it??? I will continue to make parallels between ARL and KLIA Express in the future if such threads exist, and you are free to scroll past my post. If one day ARL becomes more efficient than KILA Express, I will admit so. As a consumer. But right now, it is a massive FAIL, so try your best to deal with the fact.

I will not try to stop you from trying to sell Thailand's rail transport plans here on TVF but please stay on-point in a discussion. Else, try to find a more appropriate platform for your presentation on 'Thailand's Rail Transport in 20 Years Time'. Go play with other people's posts. Try to sound smart elsewhere.

A few things, and this is from a regular user (consumer as you term it).

Firstly, I'm not giving or selling you detailed plans on Thailands future. I'm limiting my response to Bangkok and the future metro & commute network. Attempting to put the ARL in a context. You basically expressed that the ARL doesn't connect with a hub or anything transport wise. That is incorrect. As I explained, Makkasan will be a future hub for the east, Bang Sue for the north and south, DMK and the ARL will connect to 10 lines. So clearly your lack of connectivity assertion is completely wrong and patently you don't know what is being built or planned for the next few years.

When one takes a medium term view rather than being short sighted that cannot see the whole picture. You seem ot be doing what most TV members rightly criticize Thai decision makers for, short term thinking and a lack of integration. By any measure, once the extension is complete, the ARL will be connected to all transport lines. If as a consumer you don't want to buy into a product that will have such ubiquitous connectivity just because of narrow, short term thinking, then that is your choice.

You are making the mistake that former BMA Gov Samak did back in 2001 when he said that 'the BTS was ugly, noisy and no one was using it (back in 2000 hardly anyone was) and that it didn't connect to anything important'. He completely neglected to think about the future planned BTS extensions or that the BTS would connect with other future planned lines.

Secondly, the ARL is not a failure. You are entitled to your opinion and you don't have to obviously use it anymore than you are compelled to return to a restaurant or use that same car with mechanical problems. The reason it is not a failure is that pax growth has been greater than projections which is why peak hr services have been packed well before the maintenance issue and reduced rolling stock. Plenty of people use it, it carries 1.5m pax a month. By any logical reasoning that is not a failure as a transport system.

Now that doesn't at all mean that the ARL doesn't have flaws, as I stated there are many, or had not been mismanaged, which it has. Clearly, the long maintenance scheduling has been severely mishandled. Though the reasons are more complex than given in the article. It comes down to combination of dysfunctional management, a lack of planning, previous parts shortages impacting inventories but is actually more about adequate finances not being available due to MOF restrictions and the change of govt. However, the buck has to stop with hopeless SRTET management who should be held accountable regardless of all of the reasons.

And your car analogy is actually missing the point completely, there is nothing wrong with the ARL rolling stock. You are complaining about the ARL which is a transport system involving different components and the way it is managed. In this case in relation to maintenance issues. You are are not complaining about the quality of the Siemens trains. A better analogy may have been about a poorly managed new expressway that is half built in length and which is causing damage to vehicles due to a lack of maintenance, thus requiring lanes to be progressively shut down. Or an airline having to reduce services due to mismanaging their long haul maintenance schedule which is actually more on point to this issue.

Thirdly, I agreed with you that the KLIA Express (ERL) offers an excellent service. However the comparisons may not be so useful - there are many other airport lines in thw world which would be a more suitable comparison. The ERL operates for an airport that is 60kms away from Sentral. The ARL is half the distance. The KLIA Airport line also opened later than planned (as did the recent extension to KLIA 2) and had some initial teething problems related to signalling and ticketing. It has also had a major accident with two trains colliding in 2010, the ARL has not. (Though in fairness the ERL opened in 2002 and the ARL in 2010 and give it time and it could have an accident).

So your wonderful KLIA ERL is not perfect either. BTW, botht he BTS and MRT has major accidents in their first 4 years of operations - train colliding. The ARL has yet to experience such. That doesn't make the BTS or MRT a failure anymore than it makes the ARL absent of problems.

The summary is that it is fine to criticise and there is plenty to be critical about in relation to the ARL. However, good critical analysis takes some attempt at insight as to what are the specific problems and why have they occurred and importantly what is the context. None of which you seem that concerned about as you just seem to want to neglect facts and reality. I was attempting (in vain it seems) not so much to sound smart but just to provide a degree of contextual analysis for you in addressing your baseless issues.

You actually completely missed all of the main problems with the ARL (of which there are many) and made irrelevant assertions which have no basis in fact.

I am makling a comment from a consumer standpoint - mine. I'm happy to note you don't see the ARL as a failure. Good for you. Congratulations. Let it be on record I am NOT refuting, belittling or countering your argument. You may or may not have a point, and I'll leave it at that. I shall not, will not and have no reasons to try to convince you otherwise. We are entitled to our own opinions - this is something I am sure we BOTH agree on. Now leave me to mine, instead of trying your darndest to convince me to see your point when you can't even stay on mine. You have considerations different from mine, leave it as that. Sheesh... I'm thankful I don't have you as a dinner companion. Have a nice day now.

Edited September 18, 2014 by outsider

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

[deleted]

Edited September 18, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[hughben]

If it closes, I will be annoyed I have to resort to taxis again at the airport.

One positive though, is that annoying TV advertisement in English and Thai explaining how great the ARL is, will have to come off air.

And looking at that map, it is safe to say all those lines will not be completed in most of our life times.

[Chicog]

subway in New York , Paris, London are more than 100 years old, and they are still working fine...

Because they aren't run by idiots.

[rametindallas]

Bangkok needs some serious help from Singapore and HK, both with very limited land but has done a great job in terms of basic infrastructure. Heck the country will be better of if run by foreigners.

It has been run by a 'foreigner' from Dubai for some years now.

[Lukecan]

a perfect example of what rampant corruption (from the ridicules priced land deals of Makasan to the train carriages that are not designed for large baggage loads from travelling tourists...but a good commission was paid) plus the 3rd world mentality in Government give you................garbage

nothing changes in Thailand as they are too stubborn to admit failure once again....massive waste of tax of which the new government want more of

People like you keep bashing thailand for being a 3rd world country, then again majority of people like you teach english or some other lame subject for peanuts and continue to live in the said "3rd world" country.

You guys need to get a life, the thing that sucks about Thailand is not that its a 3rd world country, all the westerners who are losers and outcasts in their homeland come here to lead an above average lifestyle.

Thailand doesn't need people like you, it need farangs who earn at least 200k baht after taxes.

It must be such a nice country that people like you come to live here on a 30-45k baht wage, which is nothing really.

P.S I'm a farang myself.

Edited September 18, 2014 by Lukecan

[moe666]

Maybe Taxis too cheap and convenient

You hit the nail on the head, I took the train once for grins I still needed a taxi to get to the hotel

[rametindallas]

• I live near this line in Thonglor/Ekkamai and expected that there would be a station serving that large residential community and the many businesses, big and small, on New Phetburi Road. Wrong. In fact, mind-bogglingly, between Ramkamhaeng and Makkasan, a distance of several kilometres, there is not a single station, and further out the gaps between stations are also ridiculously large. To build an urban railway without frequent stops for commuters at centres of population and commerce is absolutely ridiculous, but that's what they did.

To be fair, new statons could probably be added at a later date as need arises.

There is a lot of undeveloped land between Suvarnabumi and Hua Mak and I guess they will probably add more stations as the land gets built on and the population increases.

Or, they could have installed the stations from the beginning when it would have cost less, and not involved down-time adding stations later, and recouped the added investment by stimulating the economy/development everywhere those stations were placed.

[rametindallas]

never taken it. never will.

Is there a particular reason why you haven't?

A reason may give your post some relevance.

at 20 40 minutes door to door from my place on soi 11 in bangkok in a taxi at most times of day, its a false ecomony for either money, time or convenience.

What is 20 40 minutes door to door from your place?

Which door to which door?

Which, of the hundreds of soi 11s, is your soi 11?

What is a false economy?

[rametindallas]

I noticed a lot of work on an overhead rail system close to Don Muang recently. Is this the Suvarnabhumi/Don Muang airport link or something completely different? Ital -Thai were the contractors of course. Will those involved have learnt from the current debacle?

This is the new MRT Red Line.

noticed a lot of work on an overhead rail system close to Don Muang

I thought MRT was below ground and BTS above ground. Am I wrong?

[StefanBBK]

a perfect example of what rampant corruption (from the ridicules priced land deals of Makasan to the train carriages that are not designed for large baggage loads from travelling tourists...but a good commission was paid) plus the 3rd world mentality in Government give you................garbage

nothing changes in Thailand as they are too stubborn to admit failure once again....massive waste of tax of which the new government want more of

People like you keep bashing thailand for being a 3rd world country, then again majority of people like you teach english or some other lame subject for peanuts and continue to live in the said "3rd world" country.

You guys need to get a life, the thing that sucks about Thailand is not that its a 3rd world country, all the westerners who are losers and outcasts in their homeland come here to lead an above average lifestyle.

Thailand doesn't need people like you, it need farangs who earn at least 200k baht after taxes.

It must be such a nice country that people like you come to live here on a 30-45k baht wage, which is nothing really.

P.S I'm a farang myself.

I think you are a bit too harsh.

The project was clearly not well thought through.

To me one of the causes is that whoever is in charge does have reservations asking for advise from outside, even hiring proper consultants.

The project lacked like many others transparency.

Thailand has huge potential.

As long as salaries for teachers are low, only those able to work under that conditions will be attracted. How could the country/ schools afford teachers who are being paid 200k after tax? Even in US or Europe a language teacher can't make that much. I am afraid you are asking too much.

[Lukecan]

a perfect example of what rampant corruption (from the ridicules priced land deals of Makasan to the train carriages that are not designed for large baggage loads from travelling tourists...but a good commission was paid) plus the 3rd world mentality in Government give you................garbage

nothing changes in Thailand as they are too stubborn to admit failure once again....massive waste of tax of which the new government want more of

People like you keep bashing thailand for being a 3rd world country, then again majority of people like you teach english or some other lame subject for peanuts and continue to live in the said "3rd world" country.

You guys need to get a life, the thing that sucks about Thailand is not that its a 3rd world country, all the westerners who are losers and outcasts in their homeland come here to lead an above average lifestyle.

Thailand doesn't need people like you, it need farangs who earn at least 200k baht after taxes.

It must be such a nice country that people like you come to live here on a 30-45k baht wage, which is nothing really.

P.S I'm a farang myself.

I think you are a bit too harsh.

The project was clearly not well thought through.

To me one of the causes is that whoever is in charge does have reservations asking for advise from outside, even hiring proper consultants.

The project lacked like many others transparency.

Thailand has huge potential.

As long as salaries for teachers are low, only those able to work under that conditions will be attracted. How could the country/ schools afford teachers who are being paid 200k after tax? Even in US or Europe a language teacher can't make that much. I am afraid you are asking too much.

I'm not saying it needs teachers who earn 200k baht

I'm saying it needs people who earn 200k baht, English teaching, meh every native speaker can do it here even without a degree. These people come here, and bash this country every single day. Of course you won't be able to earn that much teaching English.

Thailand draws too many people from west who suffer from inferiority complex, they keep calling it a 3rd world country, yet they live here? Why do you stay in a 3rd world country which pays you peanuts to teach?

Yes Thailand has its issues, but this doesn't prevent it from making it such a spectacular country. I Love Bangkok even though a lot of people here think badly about it. I'd take it over some boring town in sweden, norway any day!

[rametindallas]

a perfect example of what rampant corruption (from the ridicules priced land deals of Makasan to the train carriages that are not designed for large baggage loads from travelling tourists...but a good commission was paid) plus the 3rd world mentality in Government give you................garbage

nothing changes in Thailand as they are too stubborn to admit failure once again....massive waste of tax of which the new government want more of

People like you keep bashing thailand for being a 3rd world country, then again majority of people like you teach english or some other lame subject for peanuts and continue to live in the said "3rd world" country.

You guys need to get a life, the thing that sucks about Thailand is not that its a 3rd world country, all the westerners who are losers and outcasts in their homeland come here to lead an above average lifestyle.

Thailand doesn't need people like you, it need farangs who earn at least 200k baht after taxes.

It must be such a nice country that people like you come to live here on a 30-45k baht wage, which is nothing really.

P.S I'm a farang myself.

Needlessly insulting, much?

[StefanBBK]

a perfect example of what rampant corruption (from the ridicules priced land deals of Makasan to the train carriages that are not designed for large baggage loads from travelling tourists...but a good commission was paid) plus the 3rd world mentality in Government give you................garbage

nothing changes in Thailand as they are too stubborn to admit failure once again....massive waste of tax of which the new government want more of

People like you keep bashing thailand for being a 3rd world country, then again majority of people like you teach english or some other lame subject for peanuts and continue to live in the said "3rd world" country.

You guys need to get a life, the thing that sucks about Thailand is not that its a 3rd world country, all the westerners who are losers and outcasts in their homeland come here to lead an above average lifestyle.

Thailand doesn't need people like you, it need farangs who earn at least 200k baht after taxes.

It must be such a nice country that people like you come to live here on a 30-45k baht wage, which is nothing really.

P.S I'm a farang myself.

I think you are a bit too harsh.

The project was clearly not well thought through.

To me one of the causes is that whoever is in charge does have reservations asking for advise from outside, even hiring proper consultants.

The project lacked like many others transparency.

Thailand has huge potential.

As long as salaries for teachers are low, only those able to work under that conditions will be attracted. How could the country/ schools afford teachers who are being paid 200k after tax? Even in US or Europe a language teacher can't make that much. I am afraid you are asking too much.

I'm not saying it needs teachers who earn 200k baht

I'm saying it needs people who earn 200k baht, English teaching, meh every native speaker can do it here even without a degree. These people come here, and bash this country every single day. Of course you won't be able to earn that much teaching English.

Thailand draws too many people from west who suffer from inferiority complex, they keep calling it a 3rd world country, yet they live here? Why do you stay in a 3rd world country which pays you peanuts to teach?

Yes Thailand has its issues, but this doesn't prevent it from making it such a spectacular country. I Love Bangkok even though a lot of people here think badly about it. I'd take it over some boring town in sweden, norway any day!

I think the country needs english teachers. Here many unqualified people do teach, because qualified teachers are not attracted. I am not a teacher and 200k / month is well below my salary expectations.

This thread is about the Airport rail link. So let's stick with that. Mistakes were made that could have been avoided would whoever was in charge seeked advise and consultation from experienced people.

I would not count Thailand as third world, however at times parallels to third world countries emerge.

[naboo]

shame it worked for many people who work at the airport plus the people who knew it worked and was a good way to get into bkk when they arrive.the taxi was always a rip off and now it will continue.hope it does not shut down

Taxis, a rip off? In Bangkok, from Survanabhumi? Cheapest taxis I've ever been in. What planet are you on?

Thaivisa at its finest.

[Robroona]

never taken it. never will.

Funny thing to say. No experience of it yet you make a lifelong decision to stay off it. What do base tour instincts on.

I might be biased. I live on the Eastern Seaboard and drive to and then park at the airport. Then let the train take the strain. Have been completely satisfied with my trip every time

[Jonmarleesco]

'... no such order has yet been placed.' True to Thai corporate form.

'... simple facts should not escape capable managers.' Of which Thailand suffers a dearth. But, instead, the ARL board's mishandling of the situation threatens to cause not only safety concerns but also severe inconvenience.

[doctorproc156]

Secondly, the ARL is not a failure. You are entitled to your opinion and you don't have to obviously use it anymore than you are compelled to return to a restaurant or use that same car with mechanical problems. The reason it is not a failure is that pax growth has been greater than projections which is why peak hr services have been packed well before the maintenance issue and reduced rolling stock. Plenty of people use it, it carries 1.5m pax a month. By any logical reasoning that is not a failure as a transport system.

Lakegeneve, just because there is pax growth doesn't mean it is any less of a failure. There are people using it simply because the transportation system in Bangkok is completely atrocious and they really don't have any other choice. The stations are in the middle of nowhere and that is fine since they had to share the land with the SRT tracks underneath. But what other countries do in situations like this is have feeder bus systems that traverse the area around it and have a bus loop at each station and if possible an integrated ticket between the buses and the trains as well. Right now, the only connecting transport from the stations to the surroundings is the motosai, some taxis and the odd song thaew. As you can see, this is completely unacceptable for a system as modern as what the ARL is supposed to be. There was absolutely no planning done to incorporate a bus loop and it is impossible as of now unless surrounding land is bought and developed, the lack of foresight is astounding. This is why the previous poster made parallels to the ERL, each ERL station has a bus loop and connects very well at KL sentral where it connects with 4 other lines and at Bandar Tasik Selatan where it connects to 2 other train lines as well as the inter-city long distance bus system.

[SinCityGr8One]

Lots of commuters will be disappointed if/when the Airlink shuts down.

BTW since when is 4 + 4 = 9 ?

"pulled four of the nine trains out of service, causing delays and increasing the workload for the equipment still in operation. Now the four trains remaining in use also need to be taken"

indeed 4+4=9; source; obama common core curriculum.

thai's want to emulate the americans

Why are you just picking on Obama and the Americans? 4+4=9 could be from any Countries curriculum. Have you received an a55 beating from a Yank lately?

[CantSpell]

New and already broken.....

Procurement, feasibility studies and maintenance planning?? No need, we got paid already.......

And seriously SIEMENS... 9 months for spare parts?

Where is the production line for spare parts?

On the MOON???

[whybother]

Beyond repair in only 4 years !, shoddy work from the start then.

regards worgeordie

How often do you service your car?

I don't think it would go too well if you didn't have it serviced and replace a few parts in four years.

[Lakegeneve]

Secondly, the ARL is not a failure. You are entitled to your opinion and you don't have to obviously use it anymore than you are compelled to return to a restaurant or use that same car with mechanical problems. The reason it is not a failure is that pax growth has been greater than projections which is why peak hr services have been packed well before the maintenance issue and reduced rolling stock. Plenty of people use it, it carries 1.5m pax a month. By any logical reasoning that is not a failure as a transport system.

Lakegeneve, just because there is pax growth doesn't mean it is any less of a failure. There are people using it simply because the transportation system in Bangkok is completely atrocious and they really don't have any other choice. The stations are in the middle of nowhere and that is fine since they had to share the land with the SRT tracks underneath. But what other countries do in situations like this is have feeder bus systems that traverse the area around it and have a bus loop at each station and if possible an integrated ticket between the buses and the trains as well. Right now, the only connecting transport from the stations to the surroundings is the motosai, some taxis and the odd song thaew. As you can see, this is completely unacceptable for a system as modern as what the ARL is supposed to be. There was absolutely no planning done to incorporate a bus loop and it is impossible as of now unless surrounding land is bought and developed, the lack of foresight is astounding. This is why the previous poster made parallels to the ERL, each ERL station has a bus loop and connects very well at KL sentral where it connects with 4 other lines and at Bandar Tasik Selatan where it connects to 2 other train lines as well as the inter-city long distance bus system.

You do make some good points.

The issue in relation to feeder services, buses, is systematic in BKK and endemic due to a lack of a single coordinating public transport agency. We don't have an integrated and coordinated public transport system. Simply put, the BMTA does not coordinate with the SRT. For years it has been stated that as the BTS and MRTA networks expand, that buses routes will be adjusted accordingly to provide feeder services. Yet, in the main that has not happened as almost no bus routes have been changed. (remember when 3 years ago the BMTA wanted to renumber buses in order to prepare for future consolidation of routes as metro lines expand? People nearly rioted! The plans were dropped after 1 week) As another example, at many intersections where there is a BTS or MRT station, bus stops on the perpendicular main rd to the station have not been moved, they can be 300-400-500m away. It is of an issue with metro lines compared with commuter/suburban lines such as the ARL but pax are still expected to walk 300-500m between the bus stop and station.

To a certain extent local officials know that the local transport services (motorbike taxis, tuk tuk songthaews etc) will come in and provide a service for that last section home from the station. That is very common in BKK. Indeed, as part of the recent re-registration of motorbike taxis in BKK it was found that the number of motorbike taxis had increased significantly as so many were providing feeder services to and from the BTS, MRT & ARL stations.

Again, the criticism is valid but it is not the SRT's fault. It is ultimately the MOT that should be working with the BMA and BMTA to move bus stops and finally introduce feeder services. The SRT can barely function, let alone be responsible for bus routes. Ideally, dispense with the all of the govt agencies (and the private concessionaire model) and create a single body to run all transport services.

On the pax front. People do have choice, they had it before the ARL existed and they'll have those same options if services are suspended. It is incorrect to call the ARL a complete failure as people chose to use it, many more than expected for obvious reasons of time savings and convenience. If it was a complete failure people would not use it. Plenty of problems yes. A failure based on customer use, no.

[Lakegeneve]

I noticed a lot of work on an overhead rail system close to Don Muang recently. Is this the Suvarnabhumi/Don Muang airport link or something completely different? Ital -Thai were the contractors of course. Will those involved have learnt from the current debacle?

This is the new MRT Red Line.

noticed a lot of work on an overhead rail system close to Don Muang

I thought MRT was below ground and BTS above ground. Am I wrong?

I've already posted that it is the SRT Dark Red line (Bang Sue to Rangsit).

All BTS line extensions will be elevated (though previously one planned extension west, now cancelled and replaced by the amended Orange Line, was going to be underground). MRTA lines are both elevated and underground. The distinction is not whether it is elevated or not. The MRTA is considering running the BTS Bearing to Samut Prkhan extension as they are responsible for the ext.

[Keesters]

The only good that can come from this project is that it's a prime example of 'how not to do it' that others can learn from and avoid.

[Lakegeneve]

I am makling a comment from a consumer standpoint - mine. I'm happy to note you don't see the ARL as a failure. Good for you. Congratulations. Let it be on record I am NOT refuting, belittling or countering your argument. You may or may not have a point, and I'll leave it at that. I shall not, will not and have no reasons to try to convince you otherwise. We are entitled to our own opinions - this is something I am sure we BOTH agree on. Now leave me to mine, instead of trying your darndest to convince me to see your point when you can't even stay on mine. You have considerations different from mine, leave it as that. Sheesh... I'm thankful I don't have you as a dinner companion. Have a nice day now.

I appreciate your reply and understand that as a consumer you don't use the ARL. There was no attempt to convince you to use it. Just a motivation to provide further info addressing the connectivity and hub issues that you raised.

One of the great aspects of discussions on forums is that people can disagree on issues, provide information and debate ideas without taking it personally. That rarely happens here, we have shown that it can be done. Dinner wise, I do have an appreciation of enjoying food with an appropriate ambiance. Discussing transport issue is usually not involved (unless someone was late due to traffic). More important issues like sporting results generally suffices. Cheers

[trogers]

The only good that can come from this project is that it's a prime example of 'how not to do it' that others can learn from and avoid.

Careful! ARL is the brain child of the smartest Thai PM, Thaksin.