Airport Rail Link a model of failure: Thai editorial

[Keesters]

The only good that can come from this project is that it's a prime example of 'how not to do it' that others can learn from and avoid.

Careful! ARL is the brain child of the smartest Thai PM, Thaksin.

Is there anything that Thaksin or his sister did that could honestly be called a success or doesn't have something tainted about it somewhere?

[watcharacters]

I'm sorry to hear about this.

On the occasions I took the airport link train i was completely satisfied with it from the price structure to its operation.

[Keesters]

Beyond repair in only 4 years !, shoddy work from the start then.

regards worgeordie

Beyond repair was a bit of an overstatement and would indicate total closure. Closing for 1 year for repairs is far more accurate. Except that the year will drag out to 18 months or more. Edited September 19, 2014 by Keesters

[namdocmai]

I used it once, had to walk down with my suitcase to stop a taxi on a very very busy road in the dark, get my 30 kg suitcase in the taxi myself....never again.

Vely good Thailand! Keep it up!

[rametindallas]

I noticed a lot of work on an overhead rail system close to Don Muang recently. Is this the Suvarnabhumi/Don Muang airport link or something completely different? Ital -Thai were the contractors of course. Will those involved have learnt from the current debacle?

This is the new MRT Red Line.

noticed a lot of work on an overhead rail system close to Don Muang

I thought MRT was below ground and BTS above ground. Am I wrong?

I've already posted that it is the SRT Dark Red line (Bang Sue to Rangsit).

All BTS line extensions will be elevated (though previously one planned extension west, now cancelled and replaced by the amended Orange Line, was going to be underground). MRTA lines are both elevated and underground. The distinction is not whether it is elevated or not. The MRTA is considering running the BTS Bearing to Samut Prkhan extension as they are responsible for the ext.

Thank you for all your informative posts.

I've already posted that it is the SRT Dark Red line (Bang Sue to Rangsit).

I noticed that as I read deeper into the thread.

MRTA lines are both elevated and underground.

Are there any parts of the current MRT system that are above ground?

[fasteddie]

High speed train anyone? don't make me larf!

[Lakegeneve]

I noticed a lot of work on an overhead rail system close to Don Muang recently. Is this the Suvarnabhumi/Don Muang airport link or something completely different? Ital -Thai were the contractors of course. Will those involved have learnt from the current debacle?

This is the new MRT Red Line.

noticed a lot of work on an overhead rail system close to Don Muang

I thought MRT was below ground and BTS above ground. Am I wrong?

I've already posted that it is the SRT Dark Red line (Bang Sue to Rangsit).

All BTS line extensions will be elevated (though previously one planned extension west, now cancelled and replaced by the amended Orange Line, was going to be underground). MRTA lines are both elevated and underground. The distinction is not whether it is elevated or not. The MRTA is considering running the BTS Bearing to Samut Prkhan extension as they are responsible for the ext.

Thank you for all your informative posts.

I've already posted that it is the SRT Dark Red line (Bang Sue to Rangsit).

I noticed that as I read deeper into the thread.

MRTA lines are both elevated and underground.

Are there any parts of the current MRT system that are above ground?

The only MRTA line that is currently open is the 21km long subway, Blue Line.

If you take look at the summary list of new lines/exts under construction, http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/406991-the-new-skytrain/page-12 (#293), you will note that the two MRTA lines/exts that are currently under construction are;

1) MRTA Purple Line from Taopoon to Bang Yai: 23km, 16 stations (Opening 2017)

As of Jan 2014 civil works construction were 85% complete. Website: http://www.mrta-purpleline.com

2) MRTA Blue Line ring ext (subway) Bang Khae/Phetkasem rd ext: (Opening late 2016/2017 – civil works progress 46%)

a) Bang Sue - Tha Phra, 13.1 km, 7 elevated stations,

b ) Hua Lamphong - Lak Song, 13.9 km , 7 elevated & 4 underground stations.

Website: http://www.mrta-blueline.com/

As you can see the Purple line (Phase 1) is fully elevated. However, just over half of the Southern Ext will be underground (Taopoon to WWY then to Ratburna: 23.6 km. 17 stations (12.6km 10 stations underground, 11km 7 stations elevated).

​In relation to the Blue Line ext (current subway), most of it is elevated as you can see.

[zaphod reborn]

Back on topic

What happened to Friday's announcement for airport link?

Is it going to close?

If not, what is the new reduced schedule?

I sense a lot of SRT officials trying to save face and avoid admitting their failures.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I don't see anything yet today in the news...

But I did see a Sept. 17 BKK Post article wherein SRTET's acting president pledged that they won't shut down the service, and instead, that they're currently cannibalizing the 4 trains that are out of service to provide parts for the 5 trains that are still running.

He is quoted as saying the delay in performing the required maintenance and purchasing the needed replacement parts was due to "some administrative problems and misunderstandings among shareholders."

[mickyboy]

subway in New York , Paris, London are more than 100 years old, and they are still working fine...

you dont use the london underground as the piccadilly line is out action for about 6 months and also metropolitian line every weekend for about 2 years at some point for track replcment

[mtls2005]

According to this pop-up on the srtet web-page, all Express Train (not the City Line) Services are "temporarily suspended".

I haven't seen any news, based on the statement in the Op-Ed piece which started this thread...

"Tomorrow the Airport Rail Link (ARL) committee will make a decision..."

Other articles mention that they will try to keep 4 sets running by scavenging parts off of the other 5 sets. I'm thinking they won't make a decision, to suspend service, until there is an incident.

Obviously with only 4 sets running, the interval schedule might get stretched, and the "mileage" on these sets will reach the ( ~ 1.2 million Km?) limits well before any spare parts are ordered.

It seems like a total shut-down is inevitable, at some point in the not to distant future?

Edited September 20, 2014 by mtls2005

[scorecard]

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Lots of commuters will be disappointed if/when the Airlink shuts down.

BTW since when is 4 + 4 = 9 ?

"pulled four of the nine trains out of service, causing delays and increasing the workload for the equipment still in operation. Now the four trains remaining in use also need to be taken"

Possibly another example of very poor newspaper reporting. Reporters just scribble down the parts they hear, never checking for logic etc., and the editors also don't check.

[thurien]

AGREE - The airport train has been a disaster waiting to happen from the beginning

AGREE - Everyone behind the project should be held accountable for these failures

AGREE - Before we embark on a high-speed train project or any other large-scale infrastructure construction, let's scrutinise the mistakes made in previous projects

One example of the cost of corruption and cronyism. Accountability is definitely on the right track.

and again - which particular group gets mad about all this? foreigners, visitors and expats alike. But the real Thai amongst all of us sits smug and cozy in just another big bag of money and that was the only reason for all this ap link exercise. Why the foreigners will never understand that mega- projects like this are never started in order to do something real worth- while about infrastructure and all that crap: They are initiated just for one single reason, gentlemen (and ladies...)!

[Thanet]

The Airport Link is a fast and comfortable way of getting out of the airport. but not a good way of getting into the city. The main problem is the city terminus: Makasan, and its lack of connections to anywhere else. If you have heavy bags, forget it.

Other options are taxis, many of whom try to rip you off and drive like madmen.

I still use the AOT limo service - costs around 1,000 - 1.500 Baht, depending on where you are heading, but it's well worth it. The drivers are polite, and the cars are always in good condition. Nice after a long flight.

[JAG]

I don't see anything yet today in the news...

But I did see a Sept. 17 BKK Post article wherein SRTET's acting president pledged that they won't shut down the service, and instead, that they're currently cannibalizing the 4 trains that are out of service to provide parts for the 5 trains that are still running.

He is quoted as saying the delay in performing the required maintenance and purchasing the needed replacement parts was due to "some administrative problems and misunderstandings among shareholders."

The problem with cannibalizing the out of service trains is that, the parts which wear out on the trains which are in service are probably the parts whose wearing out has caused the other trains to be taken out of service, if you see what I mean.

I am surprised at a six month lead time for spare parts, these trains or variants of them are in service around the world. The production line is still open. I can't help wandering if the delay is due to suppliers demanding "cash up front"?

[tomyummer]

Thailand will never be as advanced in these matters as Hong Kong or even Singapore because Thailand NEVER conducts feasibility studies. Thailand always acts first then thinks and never has any inkling in maintenance for longevity sake. Patching up things here and there is always the norm.

And because there is always a 30% shortfall in ALL projects undertaken, the projects will always be under designed or lacking in something needed, such as elevators, escalators, or anything else needed to make it convenient for the consumer.

[anotheruser]

My condo is right above it in Makkasan and I still wouldn't use it. I don't like to walk long lengths for my own enjoyment after long haul flights. Especially as a taxi is not much more expensive.

[LawrenceChee]

This link is a good example of poor planning , execution and lack of leadership ...all rather usual traits for the projects in Thailand

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The problem with cannibalizing the out of service trains is that, the parts which wear out on the trains which are in service are probably the parts whose wearing out has caused the other trains to be taken out of service, if you see what I mean.

I am surprised at a six month lead time for spare parts, these trains or variants of them are in service around the world. The production line is still open. I can't help wandering if the delay is due to suppliers demanding "cash up front"?

Ya, I wasn't saying the "cannibalizing parts" approach was a good idea... just the one they reportedly are following at this point.

You have to wonder, just how much time that approach is likely to buy them. Because, the train sets they're cannibalizing parts from presumably have almost as much mileage on them as the ones that are still running. So if they're replacing parts that tend to wear out with use, then presumably, the ones they're installing were already well-used to begin with.

Meanwhile, even recognizing this is Thailand, I too wonder at what seems to be an extraordinarily long parts acquisition timeframe that the SRTET authorities seem to be publicly describing. Makes me think, there are other issues afoot there besides simple vendor delivery times, which I just don't believe are that long.

[trogers]

Cannibalised parts? Just a waste of time and labour. The MBA courses in Thai universities do not teach preventive maintenance?

I imagine lots of future announcements, "Major delay in services due to dismembering carriages to replace cannibalised springs and nuts".

[teatree]

Convert the luggage carriage on the express trains into a standing only carriage.

Should be quick and easy to do and would ease overcrowding.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Convert the luggage carriage on the express trains into a standing only carriage.

Should be quick and easy to do and would ease overcrowding.

Well, as noted above, it would seem there are NO MORE Express Line trains -- at least for the time being.

http://www.srtet.co.th/th/index.html

Interesting, in that this service suspension pop-up notice seems to POP on the Thai version of the ARL website, but not on the English version.

Of course, not that ARL would have considered that most of the very few people who actually take the Express Line service are probably more English speakers than Thais...

[Robby nz]

My condo is right above it in Makkasan and I still wouldn't use it. I don't like to walk long lengths for my own enjoyment after long haul flights. Especially as a taxi is not much more expensive.

Went to use it once from the city to the airport and for the group of us it worked out that a taxi was cheaper.

Never had a problem with taxis from the airport they have always used the meter into town or for longer out of town trips have given a price first, we know how much it should be so can say yes or no, plenty more who are happy to take us.

Note that we wont demand that a taxi takes on a longer trip if they don't want to, they would have reasons if they said no.

Taxi has the advantage of being door to door while with the rail link it takes you where it wants to go, then you have to find ongoing transport.

There is a free bus to the bus station at SW and buses into the city and To Rangsit, have used that to connect to a bus north at DM.

There is also a free bus from SW to DM and the other way if you have an ongoing flight, very good service.

[rubl]

Convert the luggage carriage on the express trains into a standing only carriage.

Should be quick and easy to do and would ease overcrowding.

Well, as noted above, it would seem there are NO MORE Express Line trains -- at least for the time being.

PS1060.jpg

http://www.srtet.co.th/th/index.html

Interesting, in that this service suspension pop-up notice seems to POP on the Thai version of the ARL website, but not on the English version.

Of course, not that ARL would have considered that most of the very few people who actually take the Express Line service are probably more English speakers than Thais...

THe homepage has some nice images being flashed. I like the picture which has

"Airport Rail Link

Moving Forward"

[The Deerhunter]

From the start, they picked the wrong contractor. Should have gone with a British contractor.

Bob the builder.JPG

Sad how it's all turned out.

They probably picked the only contractor who was prepared to come up with the prevailing 30% commission (of the time) paid into a swiss or Dubai bank account. Many companies used to doing business in Asia at between 10% & 20% (depending on the size of the project) baulked at doing business in Thailand while the Thaksin was in the driving seat and apparently wanting 30%.

PS the use of the words forward planning, planned maintenance or maintenance in relation to most Thai large projects constitues creation of an oxymoron. The reason for this is simple "We will be gone with our share by then. That will be someone elses problem!!"

Edited September 21, 2014 by The Deerhunter

[teatree]

Convert the luggage carriage on the express trains into a standing only carriage.

Should be quick and easy to do and would ease overcrowding.

Well, as noted above, it would seem there are NO MORE Express Line trains -- at least for the time being.

PS1060.jpg

http://www.srtet.co.th/th/index.html

Interesting, in that this service suspension pop-up notice seems to POP on the Thai version of the ARL website, but not on the English version.

Of course, not that ARL would have considered that most of the very few people who actually take the Express Line service are probably more English speakers than Thais...

The express service has been suspended (for ever hopefully) but the express trains (or at least some of them) are being used for the Cityline service.

This means we have the utterly stupid situation sometimes at rush hour where an express train leaves the station totally rammed (and I mean totally - not one more single person can get on) with a platform still full of people unable to get on, and all the while the luggage carriage is empty with not a soul on it.

Believe me, the words ARL express line and overcrowding do not belong in the same sentence.

Edited September 21, 2014 by teatree

[teatree]

DP

Edited September 21, 2014 by teatree

[PaullyW]

I actually loved the airport raillink as it is a hassle free trip into town when you have little luggage (and since i lived at victory monument).

But the planning has been so poor. You get dropped off at one of the stations, which had no escalators or elevators at the start, and then you are in the middle of the city at a busy road. No follow up travel opportunities, information, or taxi stands. Really nice wgen you have big bags and a couple of tired kids...

I think you would be able to find a taxi in downtown Bangkok.

Please got to Phaya Thai station during rush hour while it rains and let me know how easy it was to find an empty taxi and how easy it was to get your travel bags in the back in one of the busier roads .

Now imagine doing that after a 10 hour flight with little sleep while being in a new city for the first time in your life.

Hint: this is not how people on a holiday like to experience their first hour in a new country.

Surprised that nobody mentioned the following ridiculous flaws:

1. the unbelievable distance that has to be walked with heavy luggage to get around the stations and especially to transfer to the BTS, for example

2. the idiotically small elevators which can accommodate only a couple people with luggage at a time

3. the idiotically small entry/exit turnstiles that have tourists stuck trying to move their luggage through

Along with some of the other things people have mentioned such as:

4. the far too narrow and carriages which cannot accommodate luggage

5. the problems with the train missing key population and transit centers

It it truly a complete failure in very typical Thai style. And, truly pathetic of them to be so removed from the global business community that they would not seek assistance from any number of dozens of countries (some in SEA, many across Asia proper and of course many in the West). Very, very typical Thainess.

Edited September 22, 2014 by PaullyW

[Suriya4]

Took the train recently. Service reduced by 1 per hour (ie down from 4 to 3). Pack with people.

[Expat Girl]

I don't see anything yet today in the news...

But I did see a Sept. 17 BKK Post article wherein SRTET's acting president pledged that they won't shut down the service, and instead, that they're currently cannibalizing the 4 trains that are out of service to provide parts for the 5 trains that are still running.

He is quoted as saying the delay in performing the required maintenance and purchasing the needed replacement parts was due to "some administrative problems and misunderstandings among shareholders."

The problem with cannibalizing the out of service trains is that, the parts which wear out on the trains which are in service are probably the parts whose wearing out has caused the other trains to be taken out of service, if you see what I mean.

I am surprised at a six month lead time for spare parts, these trains or variants of them are in service around the world. The production line is still open. I can't help wandering if the delay is due to suppliers demanding "cash up front"?

Hi Jag

I agree that cannibalising the other 'out of service' trains is not the best of options, as you may seem to be aiding the issue but overall you are compounding to the problems later. Six months lead time is pretty much the norm for suppliers to deliver, i am confident that the initial contract called for maintenance spares to be issued as part of the project and further spares out side of the project would be provided under a separate purchase order. The supplier would no doubt request a purchase order up front before shipment and would invoice upon delivery, again pretty standard practice. Certainly the supplier will not be keeping lot of spares on the shelf as they see financial risk in this, as this would have been the case in this scenario.

Edited September 22, 2014 by Expat Girl