Poll shows most people feel Thai university graduates are unqualified

[kaspercat]

Just curious, how many foreign languages do you speak?

They call every scool a university. And even the ones who really did the top Thai university's can't speak proper english. Some even can't speak english at all even if they have been in the USA to study.

My god, your English is really poor for someone criticizing. Can you speak or write English better than these graduates? It seems not!

Primary English

Secondary Cantonese, Mandarin

Some Thai and Spanish.

[fstarbkk]

It still amazes me to see Westerners who are attending Thai universities in pursuit of degrees! Why would anyone want to do this unless they too only want the paper and could care less about gaining knowledge. Outside of Thailand, I have to believe that the value of a degree from almost any Thai university is nil.

Having noticed what a marvellous conversation piece my Thai driver license makes when I'm back home, I have been thinking of getting a Thai uni degree in quantum physics. I doubt I will take up too much of my free time and will be good for many laughs on my next home leave.

Obviously I don't expect to know any more about physics, after I graduate, than I do now.

[Crazy chef 1]

The unbelievable numbers of graduations shown on TV makes the whole world laugh. Everybody comprehends that it's ment to be a show of the perfect educational system in Thailand, but that the opposite is the case.

At the private school where my wife worked as a teacher I tried to have a conversation with the English language teachers. All they could produce was: Good evening, how are you and some other words. None of them was able to have a normal conversation with me. All of them had a university degree...

i would guess 60% of the world don't even know where or what Thailand is.

[belg]

quantity before quality ...

my 10 year old just informed me that the english of her thai teacher is not understandable ...

[Artisi]

They call every scool a university. And even the ones who really did the top Thai university's can't speak proper english. Some even can't speak english at all even if they have been in the USA to study.

My god, your English is really poor for someone criticizing. Can you speak or write English better than these graduates? It seems not!

Looking at this post together with a later one, seems your English is not all that hot either.

[thailiketoo]

It still amazes me to see Westerners who are attending Thai universities in pursuit of degrees! Why would anyone want to do this unless they too only want the paper and could care less about gaining knowledge. Outside of Thailand, I have to believe that the value of a degree from almost any Thai university is nil.

Having noticed what a marvellous conversation piece my Thai driver license makes when I'm back home, I have been thinking of getting a Thai uni degree in quantum physics. I doubt I will take up too much of my free time and will be good for many laughs on my next home leave.

Obviously I don't expect to know any more about physics, after I graduate, than I do now.

Chiang Mai University. ... RESEARCH LABORATORY AND RESEARCH UNIT ... LABORATORY · NUCLEAR-RADIOCHEMISTRY AND ENVIRONMENTAL ANALYSIS

http://www.science.cmu.ac.th/english/page-data.php?id=6

Or The facility has a history that can be traced back to 1971 with the privilege of being the first nuclear physics laboratory utilizing a 14-MeV neutron generator in the country. It was modestly started with the Karman type sealed tube neutron generator of which later, in 1984, was advanced to the SAMES type 150-kV drifted tube neutron generator under the support from the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA. Vienna)

There are now active in several advanced research projects related to accelerator and plasma technology applications for fulfilling homeland needs of having more qualified young experimental physicists and useful technological spin-offs. Over the past 37 years, the facility has been continually converted, from fast neutron research and applications, into a beam physics research and applications.

http://www.fnrf.science.cmu.ac.th/

[heybruce]

It still amazes me to see Westerners who are attending Thai universities in pursuit of degrees! Why would anyone want to do this unless they too only want the paper and could care less about gaining knowledge. Outside of Thailand, I have to believe that the value of a degree from almost any Thai university is nil.

Having noticed what a marvellous conversation piece my Thai driver license makes when I'm back home, I have been thinking of getting a Thai uni degree in quantum physics. I doubt I will take up too much of my free time and will be good for many laughs on my next home leave.

Obviously I don't expect to know any more about physics, after I graduate, than I do now.

Chiang Mai University. ... RESEARCH LABORATORY AND RESEARCH UNIT ... LABORATORY · NUCLEAR-RADIOCHEMISTRY AND ENVIRONMENTAL ANALYSIS

http://www.science.cmu.ac.th/english/page-data.php?id=6

Or The facility has a history that can be traced back to 1971 with the privilege of being the first nuclear physics laboratory utilizing a 14-MeV neutron generator in the country. It was modestly started with the Karman type sealed tube neutron generator of which later, in 1984, was advanced to the SAMES type 150-kV drifted tube neutron generator under the support from the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA. Vienna)

There are now active in several advanced research projects related to accelerator and plasma technology applications for fulfilling homeland needs of having more qualified young experimental physicists and useful technological spin-offs. Over the past 37 years, the facility has been continually converted, from fast neutron research and applications, into a beam physics research and applications.

http://www.fnrf.science.cmu.ac.th/

I've taught CMU students and graduates. They are intelligent, motivated young people and their degrees are legitimate.Some of them struggle with spoken English, but most of them have rarely had the benefit of English teachers who were native speakers. Also, it's only fair to note that a lot of expats struggle with Thai even though we have the benefit of language instruction while surrounded by native speakers.

[Artisi]

They call every scool a university. And even the ones who really did the top Thai university's can't speak proper english. Some even can't speak english at all even if they have been in the USA to study.

?

Hold on there, you made a speling eror, I meen a mystake. I have a Dagree in the Englis langage granted by a prestig, no presgee, no an importand Universaytee here in Bangkok. And "Scool" should be spelled "Skool"!

Oh! you are so funny, do you feel a lot better now after bagging the poster.

[fstarbkk]

It still amazes me to see Westerners who are attending Thai universities in pursuit of degrees! Why would anyone want to do this unless they too only want the paper and could care less about gaining knowledge. Outside of Thailand, I have to believe that the value of a degree from almost any Thai university is nil.

Having noticed what a marvellous conversation piece my Thai driver license makes when I'm back home, I have been thinking of getting a Thai uni degree in quantum physics. I doubt I will take up too much of my free time and will be good for many laughs on my next home leave.

Obviously I don't expect to know any more about physics, after I graduate, than I do now.

Chiang Mai University. ... RESEARCH LABORATORY AND RESEARCH UNIT ... LABORATORY · NUCLEAR-RADIOCHEMISTRY AND ENVIRONMENTAL ANALYSIS

http://www.science.cmu.ac.th/english/page-data.php?id=6

Or The facility has a history that can be traced back to 1971 with the privilege of being the first nuclear physics laboratory utilizing a 14-MeV neutron generator in the country. It was modestly started with the Karman type sealed tube neutron generator of which later, in 1984, was advanced to the SAMES type 150-kV drifted tube neutron generator under the support from the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA. Vienna)

There are now active in several advanced research projects related to accelerator and plasma technology applications for fulfilling homeland needs of having more qualified young experimental physicists and useful technological spin-offs. Over the past 37 years, the facility has been continually converted, from fast neutron research and applications, into a beam physics research and applications.

http://www.fnrf.science.cmu.ac.th/

I've taught CMU students and graduates. They are intelligent, motivated young people and their degrees are legitimate.Some of them struggle with spoken English, but most of them have rarely had the benefit of English teachers who were native speakers. Also, it's only fair to note that a lot of expats struggle with Thai even though we have the benefit of language instruction while surrounded by native speakers.

Okay, so we have two votes for CMU. That and the fact that my excellent orthopaedic surgeon went there, before finishing his training overseas, convinces me that there is some actual studying going on in Chiangmai.

On the other hand, there are the legions of graduates from equally well regarded universities here, with whom I have had the misfortune to work and/or do business with in the past 12 years, who would never even have graduated from my old highschool with what they knew.

In conclusion, I stand by my assessment, which happens to coincide with responses mentioned in the OP.

[thailiketoo]

Okay, so we have two votes for CMU. That and the fact that my excellent orthopaedic surgeon went there, before finishing his training overseas, convinces me that there is some actual studying going on in Chiangmai.

On the other hand, there are the legions of graduates from equally well regarded universities here, with whom I have had the misfortune to work and/or do business with in the past 12 years, who would never even have graduated from my old highschool with what they knew.

In conclusion, I stand by my assessment, which happens to coincide with responses mentioned in the OP.

What is your assessment and what are your credentials to make an assessment of medical school and nuclear physics graduates?

Edited September 18, 2014 by thailiketoo

[manhood]

So well its not a "feeling" that University graduates are unqualified: Its a fact ! While you have to work with persons with University diploma you can find yout the lak is the mentality of the graduates and the lak ot the way of teaching in their homes, schools and after at University!

There is a need of change the whole system!!!

But it wont happen as there is no demand of the people of this country: they dont like to change anything but want the sucess and effort other countries have by doing noting!

[KarenBravo]

It's called learning by osmosis.

The mere act of turning up at school should be enough to get the relevant certification.

Actually buckling down and learning the subject matter is Mai sanuk, so, why should anything change?

To misquote an old Soviet era saying:-

The students will pretend to learn as long as the teachers pretend to teach.

[ABCer]

A Thai degree, even from Chula or Mahidol, are worthless outside of Thailand. Many in the West particularly will not hire such, and the universities there know of the bogus situation in Thailand when evaluating admissions applications.

I dare say that even any newly graduated medical doctor should not be practicing beyond taking vitals until he/she trains in USA. I read their diplomas on the wall or as listed in Web site.

Learning is just not valued in Thailand and HiSo think spending time studying is just a waste because dad has a company position ready for them anyway.

The other root problem is that Thai teachers function the same way... the Thai way. Western trained teachers soon learn that there no Fs or Ds, that their Thai colleagues and especially administrators are just time servers, and go along to get along is the rule. The way things are now, Thailand will remain locked in the gray Second World status forever.

My Thai friend has a degree from Chula or Mahidol but any Indian speaks better english then him. He is very proud with his degree though, even has been to Norway with the university to "see how they work there". Don't tell them how the rest of the world thinks about those degree's because that's very offending.

Was his degree in English language? You seem to equate the ability to speak fluent English with intellectual competence.

Speaking English is not a measure of intellectual competence, don't think that is what is meant.

The consideration should be that Thailand "desires" to be the leading nation in the upcoming Asean region and as I am sure you know it has been agreed that English is chosen business and communication language. So, for Thai Universities (and one would presume future leaders) to not learn English will be a serious handicap in years to come.

The Great Asian Paper Tiger (Thailand) is up for a shock when the ASEAN kicks in.

Thais can satisfy their "desires" within but not outside.

As to their Leaders being seriously handicapped - wait and see... Who knows Who, Whose Family is Better, Who has the Money, Who is more Thai and Who knows how to Wai always will take precedence.

[thailiketoo]

The Great Asian Paper Tiger (Thailand) is up for a shock when the ASEAN kicks in.

Thais can satisfy their "desires" within but not outside.

As to their Leaders being seriously handicapped - wait and see... Who knows Who, Whose Family is Better, Who has the Money, Who is more Thai and Who knows how to Wai always will take precedence.

ASEAN questions. 1. Do you have reliable power and oil and gas? 2. Do you have a deep water port and loading facilities near production sites? 3. Can I order raw materials to make my product cheaply. 4. Do you have cheap labor? 4. Can I source my production needs locally? (80% of Fords made in Thailand come from Thai produced parts.)

If the world wanted another India the world would make one.

Edited September 19, 2014 by thailiketoo

[cloudhopper]

The students will pretend to learn as long as the teachers pretend to teach.

Spot on; it really is all pretend here.

[namdocmai]

My brother in law applied for a job at the RTP, he had to do an english exam and he failed for that. So it is possible to fail in Thailand. He has never spoken a word to me in English.

The young children here in BKK can speak english very well as long as they go to the right schools. They have farang teachers there and rich parents at home who can't be bothered to learn. Those parents let them bring me food all the time to get a conversation with me but i 'm getting tired of that. I don't have a workpermit so i 'm not allowed to teach

[arthurwait]

It still amazes me to see Westerners who are attending Thai universities in pursuit of degrees! Why would anyone want to do this unless they too only want the paper and could care less about gaining knowledge. Outside of Thailand, I have to believe that the value of a degree from almost any Thai university is nil.

Have you not seen the girls in their uniforms ?

[arthurwait]

It still amazes me to see Westerners who are attending Thai universities in pursuit of degrees! Why would anyone want to do this unless they too only want the paper and could care less about gaining knowledge. Outside of Thailand, I have to believe that the value of a degree from almost any Thai university is nil.

Having noticed what a marvellous conversation piece my Thai driver license makes when I'm back home, I have been thinking of getting a Thai uni degree in quantum physics. I doubt I will take up too much of my free time and will be good for many laughs on my next home leave.

Obviously I don't expect to know any more about physics, after I graduate, than I do now.

Chiang Mai University. ... RESEARCH LABORATORY AND RESEARCH UNIT ... LABORATORY · NUCLEAR-RADIOCHEMISTRY AND ENVIRONMENTAL ANALYSIS

http://www.science.cmu.ac.th/english/page-data.php?id=6

Or The facility has a history that can be traced back to 1971 with the privilege of being the first nuclear physics laboratory utilizing a 14-MeV neutron generator in the country. It was modestly started with the Karman type sealed tube neutron generator of which later, in 1984, was advanced to the SAMES type 150-kV drifted tube neutron generator under the support from the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA. Vienna)

There are now active in several advanced research projects related to accelerator and plasma technology applications for fulfilling homeland needs of having more qualified young experimental physicists and useful technological spin-offs. Over the past 37 years, the facility has been continually converted, from fast neutron research and applications, into a beam physics research and applications.

http://www.fnrf.science.cmu.ac.th/

I've taught CMU students and graduates. They are intelligent, motivated young people and their degrees are legitimate.Some of them struggle with spoken English, but most of them have rarely had the benefit of English teachers who were native speakers. Also, it's only fair to note that a lot of expats struggle with Thai even though we have the benefit of language instruction while surrounded by native speakers.

I don't believe any expats were taught Thai at school for years. I don't remember any native speakers teaching any languages at my school yet plenty of people learnt them fluently.

[thailiketoo]

The students will pretend to learn as long as the teachers pretend to teach.

Spot on; it really is all pretend here.

These people are pretending to to learn to operate. And Chulalongkorn University researchers Suchana Chavanich and Onruthai Pinyakong are pretending to be in Antarctica.

Edited September 19, 2014 by thailiketoo

[JimHuaHin]

Although I agree with the news article, and some of the posts, I feel I must take issue with some comments about Thai academics.

I have many colleagues/friends with PhDs from American, Australian and British universities who teach, or have taught, at Chulalongkorn and Mahidol Universities, and these individuals have excellent English communication skills.

But, I must hasten to add, I have some Thai friends who lived in the USA for 4-5 years, studied at and graduated from American universities/colleges, who have very very poor oral English language ability.

[namdocmai]

Well it is not only about speaking/writing english, the Thai don't seem to be very interested in the subject that they studied for.

- I have a thai friend who sold fertilizers for plants all his life, he made a great career in that and is rich now. I asked him where i could buy grass-seeds for my lawn, he replied: Does grass grow from seeds?

- I know loads of thai with degree's in IT but they even can't install Google maps on their Iphones or fix any other pc-problem that i could fix 20 years ago allready. (like deleting a temp-file if the pc gets very slow)

The problem is that Thai don't correct eachother, it is not done to comment another person or show him any mistakes. Especially when the other one is from a more expensive university / better family / has more white skin / or is older or higher in the peckingorder/ has a bigger car or house.

[SinCityGr8One]

They call every scool a university. And even the ones who really did the top Thai university's can't speak proper english. Some even can't speak english at all even if they have been in the USA to study.

?

Hold on there, you made a speling eror, I meen a mystake. I have a Dagree in the Englis langage granted by a prestig, no presgee, no an importand Universaytee here in Bangkok. And "Scool" should be spelled "Skool"!

In a previous post namdocmai stated he can speak 5 languages and reads these forums to improve his/her english language skills. How many languages can you speak? And how good are your Thai language skills presuming you are living here in Thailand. Give the man / woman a break <deleted>.

You need not presume anything, Sir! I do live here in Thailand and have done so for 10 Years. I have also been a Partner in several businesses in the Kingdom and had and still have Thai employees. Plus, I also have a (Tabien Baan) Yellow Book. Are you happy so far? And yes, I am fluent in 5 languages and can not only speak but read Thai. D'accord? Who made you a moderator on what or what not someone can write? I am making a little light of a serious subject, which is the FAILED Thai education system. English is the Language of International Business and if Thai students wish to be successful in business, they need to be taught the English language through their school years. You need to get away from the keyboard, get out of your Mother's basement and see some Sunshine!

[thailiketoo]

You need not presume anything, Sir! I do live here in Thailand and have done so for 10 Years. I have also been a Partner in several businesses in the Kingdom and had and still have Thai employees. Plus, I also have a (Tabien Baan) Yellow Book. Are you happy so far? And yes, I am fluent in 5 languages and can not only speak but read Thai. D'accord? Who made you a moderator on what or what not someone can write? I am making a little light of a serious subject, which is the FAILED Thai education system. English is the Language of International Business and if Thai students wish to be successful in business, they need to be taught the English language through their school years. You need to get away from the keyboard, get out of your Mother's basement and see some Sunshine!

They speak English in India and Pakistan, the Philippines and many other places that are toilets in comparison to Thailand. The last time I looked the Chinese economy was pretty big and functioning mostly in Chinese.

Look at Thailand's neighbors and re think your statements. Oh I know its all gonna change. Ya sure. Pol Pot and Uncle Ho and Pathet Lao all said they were going to change it too before they killed millions.

If you want an English speaker in Thailand it is not difficult to find one. ASEAN will make that even easier by importing people from the Philippines because they all want to leave and live in Thailand anyways.

I agree that the Thai education system needs reform. It could mean nothing but good in the long term. In the short term it creates fear. The same kind of fear that is in China and Singapore and North Korea.

Edited September 19, 2014 by thailiketoo

[smileydude]

Having an interest in educational research I read through all the comments and found so little in terms of constructive criticism but instead lots of bashing and ranting. I understand a lot of expat teachers and educators visit TV and was hoping for some enlightening input.

As the saying goes "It takes two to tango" or "to clap loud you need two hands".

If you want quality students you also need quality educators and/or educational system.

The poll was done on students. I'd prefer to hear what employeers have to say because if the skills our educational system produces doesn't match whats needed out their in the business world we're pretty much screwing ourselves and our economy.

These polls are at best generalizations.

At worst they are misleading and self-defeating.

[culicine]

What can one expect? Th no-fail system of schools has led to lazy and unmotivated students. They do not qualify for the better universities, so end up in one of the hundred-odd private universities here. They still learn nothing and are passed through the system. Hence the poor quality of graduates. I've seen a number of m6 graduates enter engineering degrees, who wouldn't be able to finish high school in a western country.

[heybruce]

The students will pretend to learn as long as the teachers pretend to teach.

Spot on; it really is all pretend here.

These people are pretending to to learn to operate. And Chulalongkorn University researchers Suchana Chavanich and Onruthai Pinyakong are pretending to be in Antarctica.

Thailand has become a medical tourism destination, and I don't recall any horror stories about the care these foreigners received. Apparently some universities are doing a good job.

[whgthai]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Fiddlesticks, on 18 Sept 2014 - 07:50, said:

It still amazes me to see Westerners who are attending Thai universities in pursuit of degrees! Why would anyone want to do this unless they too only want the paper and could care less about gaining knowledge. Outside of Thailand, I have to believe that the value of a degree from almost any Thai university is nil.

A very sweeping comment. Here's some other points:

1. A number of Thai universities have exchange programs with prestigious foreign universities and the bottom line is that the foreign universities would not enter such agreements unless they are convinced of 'quality'.

2. I teach many foreign students, mostly from Europe, typically one of the most advanced countries in the world, mostly in exchanges with top prestigious universities in that country, most of my courses are in MBA programs. At this university 99% of all MBA courses are taught by foreign professors.

The foreign students (90% of them) apply themselves and excel whilst 90% of the Thai students 'play', often also meaning continuously disrupting the class.

Examples:

- I (and many other lecturers) demand, again and again, that phones be switched off - all to no avail.

- Come one hour late then (some students) at the break ask for the first 5 / 10 whatever PowerPoint slides to be taught again. A few even have the cheek to give me their name and request that I construct an e-mail and send to them explaining the learning points they missed. I refuse both scenarios.

- Just before exams, further requests for additional teaching, I refuse.

- I removed two aggressive Thai girls from my room for one MBA course because they were continuously talking loudly to each other or on their phones plus they had a track record of never submitting assignments. I refused to allow them to continue that course and I now refuse to have them in any courses. This means the completion of their course work will be very delayed.

- The doozie, late last year in a final exam one young Thai male student who had an overall poor attendance record and never paid attention in class put his hand up, I went to his desk:

- 'Professor, question number #, I didn't attend that class, so it's not fair to ask me that question, so can you please give me an automatic A for that question'.

- Answer: 'No. If you give no answer to one question (the exam had deep 3 questions) then you automatically miss 33 possible points for the final exam assessment factor.' I then walked away. He complained to the office who confirmed what I had said. Then he asked if he could sit for a supplementary exam which included only subjects that he had attended. Answer from office and me 'No'.

- All my MBA courses have a small team course project (all teams do the same project - all teams include both Thai and foreign students). The foreign students dominate the work to complete the projects, whilst in most cases the Thai students:

- Sit a bit out of the circle and chat about fashion etc.

- Go to the canteen.

- Go home.

When the projects are started I announce that just before the final presentation I will:

- Ask each team leader to give me the name of any team member who has not contributed

- I also announce that I will be monitoring the teams (whilst they work in the class room) to note who is not contributing.

- Anybody 'nominated' as a non contributor will get zero score for course project and I actually do this.

After final grades are given I get numerous e-mails and phone calls, with tears, asking for forgiveness and asking for extra assignments to make up their overall score. And/or: 'can I give blood?', 'can I work at the dogs home for 10 hours?', etc.

I have only ever agreed to one extra assignment (the student didn't pay attention class however there was serious sickness and death in the family). I said 'yes' but on the basis that the student had to complete the assignment with a monitor in the room. The student didn't turn up.

I would never agree to an extra assignment to be completed at home, because there is 90% chance the student will get someone else to do the actual assignment.

There are of course a % of Thai students who do attend, are on time, listen and contribute to class discussions, contribute to projects etc.

It's a mixed bag!

[Bernard Flint]

The truth emerges at last.

I find it utterly amazing at the number of ''graduates'' one see's on television spots being awarded degrees.

The immense number of these ''graduates'' Indeed Thailand's university system shames the rest of the worlds educational systems and their limited output of educated graduates.

They are all married to hi-so TV members

[whgthai]

That is just an unbelievable story, I am completely stunned! I don't know much about the Thai education system but did my MBA in the US (at one of the top 20 US universities), and like to share some of my experiences:

There were about 20% foreign students that year, mostly from Asia and South America. Yes, their English language skills were mostly miserable but their education background far superior to that of most American students (one US student in particular was just outstanding but then, she came from West Point, haha). While US students had no problems whatsoever in expressing themselves verbally (in English), their written (English) language skills were surprisingly bad. As a foreign student, I was often asked to help them correct their written assignments (sentence structure etc), just unbelievable.

Initially, some US students did not want foreign students in their study groups due to those (foreign) students verbal language skills. But that changed after the first term when all top students were foreign students. By then however, most study groups were formed and these US students missed out.

Like seemingly in Thailand, some students in the US also were a bit lazy in participating in team assignments and I also think all students passed the program (I think one left during the course). Not THAT different to Thailand, I suppose. But everybody knew what a 4.0 pass meant, I suppose...

[Bernard Flint]

It still amazes me to see Westerners who are attending Thai universities in pursuit of degrees! Why would anyone want to do this unless they too only want the paper and could care less about gaining knowledge. Outside of Thailand, I have to believe that the value of a degree from almost any Thai university is nil.

Have you not seen the girls in their uniforms ?

Hope you are not a teacher??????