Koh Tao murders - Six migrant workers freed but Briton still asked to stay on

[LanceGringo]

They are keeping the Brits so that they don't lose face today with the General.

Quite awful people, really.

The thing is, the idiot Colonel shot his mouth off yesterday morning that the farang " probably " did the crime because in his deranged, infantile imagination the cretin has concluded it was a crime of passion perpetrated by farang because of jealousy, irrespective of the fact there is not a single shred of evidence to support this daft theory other than a political desire to convict a farang so as to preserve their revenue from tourism.

When will the British press finally wake up to this fact and galvanise someone in authority to make representations to what passes for a Thai government.

The British ambassador is absolutely useless.

The British press have already done that, today. Common afairs group plus a whole bunch of MPs are on the case now it seems. The police are akin to the keystone cops. They've ruled everybody under suspicion out by DNA, they let the migrant workers go but are still holding Chris Ware (who was David Miller's best friend) and his twin. Why? The police are next to useless and so is Prayuth. Unless he's bullying motor-bike taxi drivers into wearing the same colour vests, he is clueless.

I hear no mention of the hoe. Surely the hoe was not just lying at the murder scene and was picked up to do the killing. The hoe must have be carried from some place. What place and by whom? Is someone missing a hoe?

A valid point indeed. The police also seem to have no interest in the local (one of the 3 families) thug who was showing a lot of unwanted interest in the girl and the fact that he and Miller had a bit of an altercation when Miller stepped in and asked him to leave - all of this has been tweeted by the girl and her friends/

How have you seen her tweets/friends tweets about any of this??

[Eliot Rosewater]

With regards to the DNA evidence collected, they apparently can't link it directly with any of the current "suspects" (fall guys) . . . but surely they can at least work out the NATIONALITY of the "suspects" from that self-same DNA evidence . . . ?

Nationality from dna; 55555555

Time for u to get some edumacation!

[laban]

It is just amazing how many cyber detectives are plying their trade on Thaivisa!

It seems more than Scotland Yard could ever put together.

[Tatsujin]

With regards to the DNA evidence collected, they apparently can't link it directly with any of the current "suspects" (fall guys) . . . but surely they can at least work out the NATIONALITY of the "suspects" from that self-same DNA evidence . . . ?

Nationality from dna; 55555555

Time for u to get some edumacation!

There are various tests that can be done with DNA, including (by elimination perhaps) those for hair and eye color and perhaps specific diseases related to a certain ethnicity.

If the DNA test reveals the likelihood that the person had "light" eyes for example, then it's not illogical to then make the assumption that someone with blue or light grey eyes (likely to have been a non-Thai in that case) is the type of person they should be looking for.

Or I could be talking crap in which case I do need a better education.

[markwhite]

A valid point indeed. The police also seem to have no interest in the local (one of the 3 families) thug who was showing a lot of unwanted interest in the girl and the fact that he and Miller had a bit of an altercation when Miller stepped in and asked him to leave - all of this has been tweeted by the girl and her friends/

How have you seen her tweets/friends tweets about any of this??

The only references on here to this have said that someone posted a message on Hannah's Facebook wall saying more about the argument, that other people reacted badly to this, and the OP then removed the message.

There is evidence of this on the commemorative FB page created for Hannah, but the way it reads is that a user named Julius Montenegro posted pics, possibly of the bodies but possibly of some other victim, and the reactions are generally calls of 'troll'. There are no references left to any argument in any of the comments.

This post by Alwyn is the first one that mentions tweets. There are no tweets on Hannah's named twitter account timeline relating to this.

If Alwyn could provide links or any more evidence, it might be more revealing.

[McQwaid]

I have lived in Thailand for a few years now. I will not visit Kho Tao until they solve the murder. Not out of fear but out of principle. I don't do Pattaya, Phuket, or Krabi either because of the assaults and murders that have gone unsolved or misrepresented due to the power influence of the perps and/or the concern of the effects on Thai tourism money and/or the nation's image.

If everyone did this, we might finally see a change. The money involved in such a boycott could be enormous. BUT NO ... the masses keep blindly pouring in, UNKNOWINGLY, by the millions. All continues with no change. And more loss as a result.

It is incidents like this, unfortunately, that get international attention, that can inform the world that more than the odd unfortunate circumstances happen to Non-Thais in the LOS than people realize. Enough people and we can finally get Thailand to CLEAN UP THERE ACT. BUT NO ... the masses keep comin in by the millions. There is simply no motivation.

Western journalists should do more coverage on the death statistics of non-thais in thailand. The stats would reveal a very interesting story. Ex. Balcony suicides! I mean c'mon. Something is not right here.

Also, think about some of the Thai statements concerning this matter that have already been made. Three Non-Thai media exposed investigations and one huge media statement about "No Thai Could Do This". AND how the weapon, a hoe, is getting little attention and as well as following up on "The Bar Incident" involving an angry Thai local.

This story is big ... it's being aired right next to Scotland's Elections on international news. It is very likely "they" know how devastating this could be to Thailand in so many ways if a local turns up the killer. Unfortunately, cost benefit analysis may very well overcome justice in this instance .... UNLESS a very unique form of international pressure takes place.

Hence : Big famous news reporters do a huge investigative piece on Non-Thai victimization in the LOS. Especially while the Junta is still in place ( a little better chance at change than before ). Just my 2 baht ....

[retell]

A PR nightmare!

yes - agreed - caused by themselves and the inability of the police ti keep their mouths shut.

Not sure what is the expertise of kohphangan police force

Are they competent enough to handle such a case ?

[partington]

With regards to the DNA evidence collected, they apparently can't link it directly with any of the current "suspects" (fall guys) . . . but surely they can at least work out the NATIONALITY of the "suspects" from that self-same DNA evidence . . . ?

Nationality from dna; 55555555

Time for u to get some edumacation!

There are various tests that can be done with DNA, including (by elimination perhaps) those for hair and eye color and perhaps specific diseases related to a certain ethnicity.

If the DNA test reveals the likelihood that the person had "light" eyes for example, then it's not illogical to then make the assumption that someone with blue or light grey eyes (likely to have been a non-Thai in that case) is the type of person they should be looking for.

Or I could be talking crap in which case I do need a better education.

There are no DNA tests that can currently be done to tell eye colour, or hair colour, or even skin colour, which are controlled by not one but very many different genes. There is no way to definitively predict these features, even if you were able to get enough DNA to identify all these many genes by sequencing. This is not what DNA profiling is, and is not done routinely in any labs.

A review of current forensic DNA profiling says this of tests for eye colour, and suggests it is true of skin and hair colour as well:

" A [...] study [...] has identified 61 SNPs that explain 15% of the variation in eye colour in a sample, but probably do not provide useful predictive testing. [...] the complexity of these quantitative traits, coupled with variability introduced by environmental and nutritional differences, means that even if the genes influencing them were identified there is no guarantee that simple deterministic tests would emerge."

http://www.nature.com/scitable/content/15330/10.1038_nrg1455.pdf#toolbar=0

Furthermore, although some genetic markers are more common in some ethnic groups, they cannot be used to identify with certainty the ethnicity of a particular subject. They can suggest that the person may have had some ancestors in that particular ethnic group in the past.

From the same review , as an example, genetic tests in the US that suggest African-American rather than Caucasian ethnicity identify the race of a subject wrongly about 1 out of 3 times. This is not enough certainty to base any legal or investigative action upon.

Edited September 18, 2014 by partington

[englishoak]

Thai police say Christopher Ware, friend of mustered Brit David Miller, has been allowed to leave Thailand.

Be nice if those here who were quick to accuse and suck up the fleeing friend theory BS apologised.

[kevinsan]

Lets hope the killers don't drive a Ferrari.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Western journalists should do more coverage on the death statistics of non-thais in thailand. The stats would reveal a very interesting story. Ex. Balcony suicides! I mean c'mon. Something is not right here.

As I already posted the British FCO stated privately a Brit in Thailand is 17x more likely to die than a Brit traveling elsewhere.

The FCO decided not to publicise the information on the basis it would unfairly damage Thai business interests.

(From a private memo revealed to the press under freedom of information act. The actual data used was 10% of all deaths of Brits overseas happen in Thailand, but Thailand only accounts for 0.6% of Brits overseas travel))

Edited September 18, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[thesetat2013]

Surely it's possible to ascertain the ethnic origin of the murders from the DNA? Please invite the British police to assist

No, it isn't.

Yes it is. They are now able to track ethnicity using the genome. They can even trace the origin of a region in a country based on this. You should read more science or at least learn to use google

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[chongtak]

If you pay some hundred bucks for a DNA test they will identify all your lineage, that your father side family was from Sicilia and your mom side from Belfast and that you have around 10% of mexican genes from that "unknown" grandfather. Why cant they determine whether the culprit is Caucasian, Southeast Asian or whatever else?

Edited September 18, 2014 by chongtak

[thai20144]

To me I believe that it must of being someone from the party that was watching them probable high on Yabba, only a local would have the nerve to commit such an awful crime, like where did the hoe come from? Who owns its as I am sure if you went to look for a hoe along that beach you would not find one.

I hope their in Heaven now.

[belg]

"Khao Sarn road in Bangkok for questioning and DNA test."

they also provide DNA tests now overthere ?

[Loles]

" now expand suspected targets to cover Thai fishermen in the island, and also a man who was captured by a CCTV camera near the place. "

I would like to wish to the Police a specially nice and GOOD MORNING.

I guess their fisherman alredy has gone, and he is fishing around Malaysia-costs well ..

[Tatsujin]

With regards to the DNA evidence collected, they apparently can't link it directly with any of the current "suspects" (fall guys) . . . but surely they can at least work out the NATIONALITY of the "suspects" from that self-same DNA evidence . . . ?

Nationality from dna; 55555555

Time for u to get some edumacation!

There are various tests that can be done with DNA, including (by elimination perhaps) those for hair and eye color and perhaps specific diseases related to a certain ethnicity.

If the DNA test reveals the likelihood that the person had "light" eyes for example, then it's not illogical to then make the assumption that someone with blue or light grey eyes (likely to have been a non-Thai in that case) is the type of person they should be looking for.

Or I could be talking crap in which case I do need a better education.

There are no DNA tests that can currently be done to tell eye colour, or hair colour, or even skin colour, which are controlled by not one but very many different genes. There is no way to definitively predict these features, even if you were able to get enough DNA to identify all these many genes by sequencing. This is not what DNA profiling is, and is not done routinely in any labs.

A review of current forensic DNA profiling says this of tests for eye colour, and suggests it is true of skin and hair colour as well:

" A [...] study [...] has identified 61 SNPs that explain 15% of the variation in eye colour in a sample, but probably do not provide useful predictive testing. [...] the complexity of these quantitative traits, coupled with variability introduced by environmental and nutritional differences, means that even if the genes influencing them were identified there is no guarantee that simple deterministic tests would emerge."

http://www.nature.com/scitable/content/15330/10.1038_nrg1455.pdf#toolbar=0

Furthermore, although some genetic markers are more common in some ethnic groups, they cannot be used to identify with certainty the ethnicity of a particular subject. They can suggest that the person may have had some ancestors in that particular ethnic group in the past.

From the same review , as an example, genetic tests in the US that suggest African-American rather than Caucasian ethnicity identify the race of a subject wrongly about 1 out of 3 times. This is not enough certainty to base any legal or investigative action upon.

Interesting. I've been watching too much CSI I guess.

[Guitar God]

Where did you read that the man was sodomized?

I still suspect this was a gang rape. Reports said there was semen in two of the woman's cavities and one of the man's.

Surely by now they now how many different DNA profiles there are in those 3 samples?

A Thai tool was the murder weapon?

Someone drowned or tried to drown the man before he was hacked?

[wallcracks]

I have lived in Thailand for a few years now. I will not visit Kho Tao until they solve the murder. Not out of fear but out of principle. I don't do Pattaya, Phuket, or Krabi either because of the assaults and murders that have gone unsolved or misrepresented due to the power influence of the perps and/or the concern of the effects on Thai tourism money and/or the nation's image.

If everyone did this, we might finally see a change. The money involved in such a boycott could be enormous. BUT NO ... the masses keep blindly pouring in, UNKNOWINGLY, by the millions. All continues with no change. And more loss as a result.

It is incidents like this, unfortunately, that get international attention, that can inform the world that more than the odd unfortunate circumstances happen to Non-Thais in the LOS than people realize. Enough people and we can finally get Thailand to CLEAN UP THERE ACT. BUT NO ... the masses keep comin in by the millions. There is simply no motivation.

Western journalists should do more coverage on the death statistics of non-thais in thailand. The stats would reveal a very interesting story. Ex. Balcony suicides! I mean c'mon. Something is not right here.

Also, think about some of the Thai statements concerning this matter that have already been made. Three Non-Thai media exposed investigations and one huge media statement about "No Thai Could Do This". AND how the weapon, a hoe, is getting little attention and as well as following up on "The Bar Incident" involving an angry Thai local.

This story is big ... it's being aired right next to Scotland's Elections on international news. It is very likely "they" know how devastating this could be to Thailand in so many ways if a local turns up the killer. Unfortunately, cost benefit analysis may very well overcome justice in this instance .... UNLESS a very unique form of international pressure takes place.

Hence : Big famous news reporters do a huge investigative piece on Non-Thai victimization in the LOS. Especially while the Junta is still in place ( a little better chance at change than before ). Just my 2 baht ....

what Bar incident, ?? That s the first time I heard about it.

If they had trouble with someone in the Bar why this Person is not questioned??

Thais are well known for those kind of revenges if they loose face..

[markwhite]

what Bar incident, ?? That s the first time I heard about it.

See #317 and comments on http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/761314-koh-tao-dna-tests-do-not-match-with-those-of-suspects-in-british-tourists-murder/page-13

[halloween]

If you pay some hundred bucks for a DNA test they will identify all your lineage, that your father side family was from Sicilia and your mom side from Belfast and that you have around 10% of mexican genes from that "unknown" grandfather. Why cant they determine whether the culprit is Caucasian, Southeast Asian or whatever else?

Because they are selling gold-plated crap to gullible fools. One thing DNA testing has proven is that a surprisingly large number of people are not related to the father on their birth certificate. Unless you are comprehensively aware of the sexual exploits of your grandmothers and great-grandmothers (whoever they be on the paternal side), you will never know if you are buying shoe polish or the other.

[chongtak]

If you pay some hundred bucks for a DNA test they will identify all your lineage, that your father side family was from Sicilia and your mom side from Belfast and that you have around 10% of mexican genes from that "unknown" grandfather. Why cant they determine whether the culprit is Caucasian, Southeast Asian or whatever else?

Because they are selling gold-plated crap to gullible fools. One thing DNA testing has proven is that a surprisingly large number of people are not related to the father on their birth certificate. Unless you are comprehensively aware of the sexual exploits of your grandmothers and great-grandmothers (whoever they be on the paternal side), you will never know if you are buying shoe polish or the other.

Your comment is rubbish, you don't know what you are talking about. DNA has proved many things in ethnology for example. Read books, its better for you.

[tonbridgebrit]

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/police-never-checked-cctv-britons-killed-104553353.html#0L2ZGi6

[tonbridgebrit]

"Police failed to check CCTV images of a boat leaving a pier close to where two British backpackers were found murdered, a Thai court has heard.

There were gasps in the courtroom as Police Colonel Cherdpong Chiewpreecha revealed a series of apparent blunders in the investigation into the deaths of David Miller, 24, and Hannah Witheridge, 23, on the island of Koh Tao."

"The judges were told 200 of the 300 CCTV cameras in the vicinity were not working.

The alleged murder weapon - a wooden garden hoe - was never extensively forensically tested.

The court was told officers had inspected it with a magnifying glass but deemed there were no viable fingerprints on it, and no DNA evidence to collect.

The prosecution spent 12 hours on Wednesday showing CCTV pictures of the victims’ final hours, and also video of the alleged suspects - 22-year-old Burmese nationals Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun - riding a motorbike and buying alcohol and cigarettes.

But on Thursday the defence team pointed out that the two suspects were not wearing the same clothes as the alleged suspects caught on camera, allegedly running from the scene.

Police Colonel Cherdpong said he did not see that as relevant."

Yes, the media has mainly forgotten what happened at koh Tao nearly a year ago. The trial is now on, this is news from Sky News.

[simonuk]

Anyone have any idea where this debacle is being discussed now that the mods have closed down discussion?

[Nigeone]

Anyone have any idea where this debacle is being discussed now that the mods have closed down discussion?

Unfortunately not.

[Bodene]

"He said the police have its goal in mind to restart the investigation which he declined to elaborate."

"The DNA test also did not match the British friend, Christopher Ware,"... "But the police asked him to remain in the country pending more investigation."

The goal being arresting a farang murderer, in spite of a failing DNA match? As stated before a Thai never could commit a crime like that. After all income from tourism must be protected.

"He said the police have its goal in mind to restart the investigation which he declined to elaborate."

Sweet Jesus. If true, that's a disaster for Thai credibility. They won't see it that way of course.

[Anthony5]

"He said the police have its goal in mind to restart the investigation which he declined to elaborate."

"The DNA test also did not match the British friend, Christopher Ware,"... "But the police asked him to remain in the country pending more investigation."

The goal being arresting a farang murderer, in spite of a failing DNA match? As stated before a Thai never could commit a crime like that. After all income from tourism must be protected.

"He said the police have its goal in mind to restart the investigation which he declined to elaborate."

Sweet Jesus. If true, that's a disaster for Thai credibility. They won't see it that way of course.

You realize that you're replying to a post of almost a year ago?

[Scott]

//Closed//

This is an old thread.