ALL Schools have severance payments... (answer by Thai lawyer)

[onlycw]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/761331-severance-at-private-and-at-government-schools-alike/

Hope this helps

[zeichen]

I know that you have something to prove but this half measured attempt to win a dead argument from weeks ago is just childish.

A one word answer is not proof. The so called lawyer doesn't state anything about what legislation or cite any law or state exactly what the severance laws says.

FYI lawyers are not experts on all laws. They specialize so I don't hold a lot of stock in the simplistic answers given on the law thread. They would loose a lot of money if they gave all of their full advice and legal counsel for free. My guess is that it is an intern or a paralegal who writes the responses not the actual lawyers.

[Scott]

Thanks for the link.

One of the problem for a lot of people is that once they are dismissed, they have to take the time to try and claim it and it might be a long process if the school decides to drag their feet. Schools bank on the fact that many teachers have to get their visa sorted out and find other employment, which means not much time for attending to this issue.

The guy I wrote about in this thread HERE does not have some of these issues. He was told by Thai teachers that he is eligible for severance pay and will probably pursue it. After working for the school for a number of years, it would be a sizable chunk of money.

[meand]

I know that you have something to prove but this half measured attempt to win a dead argument from weeks ago is just childish.

A one word answer is not proof. The so called lawyer doesn't state anything about what legislation or cite any law or state exactly what the severance laws says.

FYI lawyers are not experts on all laws. They specialize so I don't hold a lot of stock in the simplistic answers given on the law thread. They would loose a lot of money if they gave all of their full advice and legal counsel for free. My guess is that it is an intern or a paralegal who writes the responses not the actual lawyers.

I don't even know why you'd need a lawyer to tell you this. It is obviously true. But then, even when it comes from a Thaivisa affiliated lawyer, you still reject it.

There is so much confusion on this issue. It really is quite clear. If you are improperly terminated, or if your contract is not renewed without the proper steps taken, the school it liable to pay severance. If you dont understand this, or wont be educated about it, please at the very least stop perpetuating the confusion. You are wrong. People who work in Thailand are due severance under certain conditions. It does not matter if it is a private school, a public school, a pink or blue school. How can you think otherwise anyway? Just use your head a little. Do you really think a school, private or not, can just fire somebody after 10 years of service for no reason, especially after they have built up their pay and benefits? It is just so illogical to think that. I know this is Thailand, but I assure you the schools can't operate with impunity like this or we would surely know about it. I know this is Thailand, but it is obviously just not that fickle where the school can just fire any employee at any time. If you were right, we'd hear horror stories all the time about long time teachers being canned with impunity because they are receiving high salaries due to yearly increases.

You call this an argument, but it isnt one. This argument is like one person sayng the sun will come up tomorrow, and the other saying it wont. One side is clearly right, and the other side is flat out wrong (that is you btw). Again, if you are working in Thailand and you get canned without the proper procedures, or if your contract isn't renewed, you have a case.

But as stated many times by Scott, go in and talk to the labor court folks, they will help you and tell you if you have a case, or where you should go if you have a case.

Edited September 21, 2014 by meand

[BruceMangosteen]

Section 4. This Act shall not apply to: (1) central administration, provincial administration, and local administration; and (2) state enterprises under the law governing state enterprise labour relations.

To repeat myself, Government Schools are exempted from the severance laws. Full Stop.

[casualbiker]

Section 4. This Act shall not apply to: (1) central administration, provincial administration, and local administration; and (2) state enterprises under the law governing state enterprise labour relations.

To repeat myself, Government Schools are exempted from the severance laws. Full Stop.

But that doesn't effect contract law.. if it's in your contract that you are eligible then you can get it.

[BruceMangosteen]

Section 4. This Act shall not apply to: (1) central administration, provincial administration, and local administration; and (2) state enterprises under the law governing state enterprise labour relations.

To repeat myself, Government Schools are exempted from the severance laws. Full Stop.

But that doesn't effect contract law.. if it's in your contract that you are eligible then you can get it.

We assume you are referring to wrongful termination i.e. without cause. Yes, of course. However, the discussion is more about being laid off or your contract not being renewed. In the case of it not being renewed, I disagree with the other member as the law clearly states no "severance" from Government schools which would be your argument should your contract not be renewed.

[casualbiker]

I thought it was only private schools that had that problem. Government schools don't. I can't confirm that but a few years ago I had a conversation with a student who was a supervisor at the local labor department. She stated that severance was available from government school but not private school due to the Private schools act.

[Scott]

There is a lot of confusion. About 4 years ago, a school that I know about did a house cleaning and got rid of around 7 foreign teachers. This was done by not renewing their contracts. A group of them, I believe it was 4 went to the labor office and asked for severance. They were told they were not eligible for severance pay. They also consulted a lawyer who told them they were, but after calling the MOL, he told them they weren't.

A very close friend went to the Labor court as an interpreter for two teachers, both were asking for payment for the entire contract period for unfair dismissal and for severance pay. One person won the case and was given the full salary to the end of his contract period (but no severance). I will have to check on the 2nd person, but I think he settled for a small amount, since he would have likely lost the case.

We have one poster here who says they were given severance.

One thing to be aware of is that when you receive your final pay, there is often a form you sign which severs the relationship between you and the school and states there are no legal, financial or contractual issues between you and the school. This document is legally binding.

[meand]

I have this rule in Thailand I don't listen to what people say here. If I get into a taxi and ask a question, it is biased info. If I call a guy making 200 baht a day he just wants to get off the phone. The examples could go on, the point being since there is really no accountability here, all the info is suspect. And I simply can't even tell you the number of times I've gotten conflicting info from "people in the know".

This all leads me to the conclusion: don't listen to anybody, and blaze your own trail and make your own info if you will. That is the only way to do many things here.... severance pay definitely being one of them.

But, can you listen to the labor court? I can tell you right now that I know for a fact one certain case a person went to the labor court 4 times talking to a total of 4 clerks. 3 of the clerks thought there was a case. One did not. The person talked with the one who thought there was no case second in the sequence, and it would have been very easy for them to give up then and there. So, take that for what its worth. The point here is really, it aint going to be easy, and walk into that place a number of times. They don't mind and you will be getting second and third opinions.

Simply filing the case can be enough to get the leverage you need though.

My advice would be if you really have been wronged, go all out, because you will probably win. These mediators in your case know the school's reputation, they may even know individuals and students within the school, and they probably have a good sense of who was wrong before you walk in the door. If all seems to check out you will be in good shape. If you are just a person trying to get revenge or something, forget it, I'd say they would sniff you out as a BSer in the process. For what it's worth, that's my advice.

Edited September 23, 2014 by meand

[SlyAnimal]

I'd definitely agree with meand.

I've never had any problems with severence etc, but if I did (And it was going to be a decent amount of money), I'd want to find out the information first hand, rather than just relying on what someone else told me.

As often the staff who work in places like the DoL, don't necessarily know all of the rules/laws/regulations and especially not in regards to Farang teachers. It's a similar deal when doing your WP/Extension of stay, where sometimes the schools are a little bit clueless and so it's better to do your own research, and work out what the truth of the matter is once you've had a variety of different opinions (And then try to check relevant government websites etc).

Which is why I always think it's a good idea for people with queries, to post on TV and then others can give them advice + direct them to where they can find the required information/forms etc for what they want. Sometimes a bit of sifting through the information is required though, as often posters are given conflicting information from "official" sources.

[somchaismith]

Kudos to the OP for following through the lawyer's inquiry.