Lessons on democracy to be taught shortly

[khunpa]

Sorry, but am I the only one here, who is finds the stories posted here, more and more entertaining as the the days go by?

When I read the world news, I get kind of depressed. But just reading the headlines in this section always makes me laugh out loud. Have no idea why...

[Robespiere]

"He urged the ministry to create a new culture in society for people to accurately understand democracy"

Just as child birth is painful pre-empting the arrival of a beautiful child. The birth of a return to democracy (not just elections) can be painful pre-empting the arrival of true democracy (all the principles). Well it is only painful to the UDD and the PTP. The majority through all failed elections, all polls and narrative support this. It is only a bitter twisted "belief" that keeps the 7% minority believing their twisted views.

The gestation period of an elephant is 680 days which is not dissimilar to the stated return to democracy the Good General has highlighted.

I look forward to that birth through education.

7%?

If the UDD and PTP retain just 7% support amongst the electorate why would the "Good General" not call an immediate election so the remaining 93% can romp home to victory and end the Thaksin era once and for all?

Truth is, PTP (or whatever new name they come up with after they are once again disbanded) will win the next election and the one after that and the one after that...

[rubl]

"while not being democratically elected can run a country based on democratic principals" what kind of doublespeak is this?

You say that PTP are undemocratic because they are run by Thaksin. This would be true if they tried to conceal this. But instead they made this fact completely obvious. In fact I doubt they would have won the election if Thaksin hadn't endorsed Yingluck and called her "his clone".

And when the whole amnesty bill drama erupted, and the "democrats" called their mandate into question, they did the most democratic thing possible and called an election. The Yellows responded by first using violence to shut the election down, then engineering a coup. So please tell me who is democratic and who is not.

Sent from my IS11T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

So, Pheu Thai acknowledging Thaksin run the show makes it democratic? Didn't PM Yingluck state in parliament that she and only she was in command? Oh, btw, lots of posters here were and are still having a problem accepting that Thaksin run the show. Probably because they at least realise it's not democratic to have a criminal fugitive billionaire run a country for afar and using skype to call in into his cabinet meetings to give his orders on how to run his country.

But never the less very telling you mention this in the topic of "Lessons in democracy"

The whole amnesty drama, which was also called the "sneakily modified blanket amnesty bill for Thaksin and other criminals". Only when getting really desperate PM Yingluck finally dissolved the House. That was when she and hers had already named the anti-government protesters undemocratic and terrorists.

All in a days job for real democrats I guess ?

Edited September 29, 2014 by rubl

[halloween]

Well you seem to ignore the problems I had with the last "democracy". Why don't you counter with some of the democracy high points of the Yingluk administration?

How about just one high point, the highest point of Yinglucks administration.

When a small (but significant) minority of the electorate took to the streets to voice their discontent with her government what did Yingluck do:

Have the police brutalise the protestors? Jail them? Tear gas? Call out the tanks? Slaughter 90 odd citizens in the streets?

None of the above!

She dissolved parliament and called a snap election - returning power to the people of the nation to freely choose who will form the the next government.

Now it's your turn, democracy high points from the coup (choose any of the 20 odd coups to have occurred or been attempted in this nation that you like).

Finally we agree on something - the only democratic highlight of Yingluk's administration was her resignation. I can only assume the irony of that is lost to you.

And you would like a democracy highlight from the last 2 coups? How about that the military didn't line the thieving bastards against a wall and shoot the lot of them, instead allowing allowing the justice system to slowly work its course? Whether I like it or not.

[rubl]

"He urged the ministry to create a new culture in society for people to accurately understand democracy"

Just as child birth is painful pre-empting the arrival of a beautiful child. The birth of a return to democracy (not just elections) can be painful pre-empting the arrival of true democracy (all the principles). Well it is only painful to the UDD and the PTP. The majority through all failed elections, all polls and narrative support this. It is only a bitter twisted "belief" that keeps the 7% minority believing their twisted views.

The gestation period of an elephant is 680 days which is not dissimilar to the stated return to democracy the Good General has highlighted.

I look forward to that birth through education.

7%?

If the UDD and PTP retain just 7% support amongst the electorate why would the "Good General" not call an immediate election so the remaining 93% can romp home to victory and end the Thaksin era once and for all?

Truth is, PTP (or whatever new name they come up with after they are once again disbanded) will win the next election and the one after that and the one after that...

and I though I was a dreamer.

BTW I would imagine that one of the reform items will be the prohibition of criminal fugitives owning / running political parties and for political parties to go abroad visiting said criminals in order to get their latest orders.

Nothing against Thaksin in particular of course, just some laws, rules and regulations which are deemed normal in Western Democracies

[brucec64]

so far there is no mention of a referendum

but that is a red herring anyway

what good is voting on something when it has been created by the hand-pick lackies of the NCPO?

We were there once already

"hand-picked lackies" ?

Read a bit, my dear chap. The selection process for the 11 NRC committees is in progress. Of course, only those who applied will be considered.

Which reminds me, I still wonder about that Surin family with too many relatives wanting to help out. Till now no details. Former Senator Yutthana said he would petition the Adm. Court to suspend announcement of NRC members in the provinces. PM Prayut remarked that those who questioned the selection process could proceed as they saw fit. So maybe one of these days the prominent family will be made known and praised here on TVF

PS your "what good is voting" seems like a rhetorical question you answer yourself following which you continue with speculating on that answer. Interesting debating technique.

I have read a bit and "hand picked lackies" seems to be spot on.

Take a look at this article:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/764214-thienchay-and-chai-anan-are-frontrunners-for-nrc-chairman/

A source said the person who becomes NRC chairman is expected to have strong ties with the junta or is someone who takes orders from them.

Definition of lackey:

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/lackey

1.1 derogatory A person who is obsequiously willing to obey or serve another person: he denied that he was the lackey of the Chief Secretary to the Treasury

[rubl]

so far there is no mention of a referendum

but that is a red herring anyway

what good is voting on something when it has been created by the hand-pick lackies of the NCPO?

We were there once already

"hand-picked lackies" ?

Read a bit, my dear chap. The selection process for the 11 NRC committees is in progress. Of course, only those who applied will be considered.

Which reminds me, I still wonder about that Surin family with too many relatives wanting to help out. Till now no details. Former Senator Yutthana said he would petition the Adm. Court to suspend announcement of NRC members in the provinces. PM Prayut remarked that those who questioned the selection process could proceed as they saw fit. So maybe one of these days the prominent family will be made known and praised here on TVF

PS your "what good is voting" seems like a rhetorical question you answer yourself following which you continue with speculating on that answer. Interesting debating technique.

I have read a bit and "hand picked lackies" seems to be spot on.

Take a look at this article:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/764214-thienchay-and-chai-anan-are-frontrunners-for-nrc-chairman/

A source said the person who becomes NRC chairman is expected to have strong ties with the junta or is someone who takes orders from them.

Definition of lackey:

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/lackey

1.1 derogatory A person who is obsequiously willing to obey or serve another person: he denied that he was the lackey of the Chief Secretary to the Treasury

Well for one I don't think our dear member tbhailand would willingly make a derogatory remark about people hand-picked by Gen Prayut.

Furthermore I think the "obsequiously = obedient or attentive to an excessive or servile degree" makes the description reference to 'lackeys' incorrect.

Mind you, I also put this in relation to other examples where I don't think I've heard the word 'lackey' be used in descriptive sense. Not even for Ms. Yingluck pack of hand-picked members of her brothers cabinet.

Conclusion, you guys are just being your normal nasty self

Edited September 29, 2014 by rubl

[tbthailand]

so far there is no mention of a referendum

but that is a red herring anyway

what good is voting on something when it has been created by the hand-pick lackies of the NCPO?

We were there once already

"hand-picked lackies" ?

Read a bit, my dear chap. The selection process for the 11 NRC committees is in progress. Of course, only those who applied will be considered.

Which reminds me, I still wonder about that Surin family with too many relatives wanting to help out. Till now no details. Former Senator Yutthana said he would petition the Adm. Court to suspend announcement of NRC members in the provinces. PM Prayut remarked that those who questioned the selection process could proceed as they saw fit. So maybe one of these days the prominent family will be made known and praised here on TVF

PS your "what good is voting" seems like a rhetorical question you answer yourself following which you continue with speculating on that answer. Interesting debating technique.

as you appear to still have issues with comprehension, just don't hit that little button, 'add reply'

[rubl]

so far there is no mention of a referendum

but that is a red herring anyway

what good is voting on something when it has been created by the hand-pick lackies of the NCPO?

We were there once already

"hand-picked lackies" ?

Read a bit, my dear chap. The selection process for the 11 NRC committees is in progress. Of course, only those who applied will be considered.

Which reminds me, I still wonder about that Surin family with too many relatives wanting to help out. Till now no details. Former Senator Yutthana said he would petition the Adm. Court to suspend announcement of NRC members in the provinces. PM Prayut remarked that those who questioned the selection process could proceed as they saw fit. So maybe one of these days the prominent family will be made known and praised here on TVF

PS your "what good is voting" seems like a rhetorical question you answer yourself following which you continue with speculating on that answer. Interesting debating technique.

as you appear to still have issues with comprehension, just don't hit that little button, 'add reply'

Thank you for confirming my description to be correct.

[heybruce]

I seem to remember that this time the army has said that there will be no referendum.

True, I also remember that.

It seems the reasoning behind that is that with the NRC consisting of mainly Thai who applied of were applied and having the NRC committees requesting all Thais to offer their valuable input, the NRC should be able to formulate reforms which should be acceptable by most Thai. Assuming this is correct, a referendum would be a waste of 3 - 4 billion Baht.

Of course if political strife results in only a limited number of Thais providing input the job is that much more difficult for the NRC, something which would show in their reporting.

Refresh my memory, who decides which of the applicants will be in the NRC? I know it involves a selection committee, but who selects the selection committee?

[ThailandNoob]

I seem to remember that this time the army has said that there will be no referendum.

True, I also remember that.

It seems the reasoning behind that is that with the NRC consisting of mainly Thai who applied of were applied and having the NRC committees requesting all Thais to offer their valuable input, the NRC should be able to formulate reforms which should be acceptable by most Thai. Assuming this is correct, a referendum would be a waste of 3 - 4 billion Baht.

Of course if political strife results in only a limited number of Thais providing input the job is that much more difficult for the NRC, something which would show in their reporting.

Oh come on! Do you really believe that the junta will do anything other than stack the NRC with people who support their Yellow ideology, just like they did with the new Parliament?

And don't you see the contradiction between "requesting all Thais to offer their valuable input" and imposing draconian restrictions on free speech?

Sent from my IS11T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[brucec64]

I seem to remember that this time the army has said that there will be no referendum.

True, I also remember that.

It seems the reasoning behind that is that with the NRC consisting of mainly Thai who applied of were applied and having the NRC committees requesting all Thais to offer their valuable input, the NRC should be able to formulate reforms which should be acceptable by most Thai. Assuming this is correct, a referendum would be a waste of 3 - 4 billion Baht.

Of course if political strife results in only a limited number of Thais providing input the job is that much more difficult for the NRC, something which would show in their reporting.

Oh come on! Do you really believe that the junta will do anything other than stack the NRC with people who support their Yellow ideology, just like they did with the new Parliament?

And don't you see the contradiction between "requesting all Thais to offer their valuable input" and imposing draconian restrictions on free speech?

Sent from my IS11T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

There was an article in the BP last month that listed the 11 NRC selection committees. The majority of members from each committee were military or retired military.

[jaideeguy]

They should teach the adults too.

Strange, I went to one of the best schools and universities, yet never had (nor needed) any lesson on "Democracy" per se.

Why don't they encourage children to read books and the Thai equivalent of (e.g.) the Economist for themselves, and form their own independent opinions?

Not by their definition of democracy where they re write their own version of history and brainwash the students and shape their brains to disregard any contrary opinions and historical truths.

[khunjamesjohnson]

"He urged the ministry to create a new culture in society for people to accurately understand democracy"

Just as child birth is painful pre-empting the arrival of a beautiful child. The birth of a return to democracy (not just elections) can be painful pre-empting the arrival of true democracy (all the principles). Well it is only painful to the UDD and the PTP. The majority through all failed elections, all polls and narrative support this. It is only a bitter twisted "belief" that keeps the 7% minority believing their twisted views.

The gestation period of an elephant is 680 days which is not dissimilar to the stated return to democracy the Good General has highlighted.

I look forward to that birth through education.

7%?

If the UDD and PTP retain just 7% support amongst the electorate why would the "Good General" not call an immediate election so the remaining 93% can romp home to victory and end the Thaksin era once and for all?

Truth is, PTP (or whatever new name they come up with after they are once again disbanded) will win the next election and the one after that and the one after that...

and I though I was a dreamer.

BTW I would imagine that one of the reform items will be the prohibition of criminal fugitives owning / running political parties and for political parties to go abroad visiting said criminals in order to get their latest orders.

Nothing against Thaksin in particular of course, just some laws, rules and regulations which are deemed normal in Western Democracies

Rubi, Please don't take this personally but from reading your posts it appears you get your information from the Thai Press.

There is not a free press in Thailand.

The stuff in the local papers is the stuff they allow to be printed. It's the stuff that they block that holds the key to the political dilemma.

Read the Wikileaks and the books they don't want you to read.

"Reform" means fixing things so the majority lose.

[khunjamesjohnson]

I seem to remember that this time the army has said that there will be no referendum.

True, I also remember that.

It seems the reasoning behind that is that with the NRC consisting of mainly Thai who applied of were applied and having the NRC committees requesting all Thais to offer their valuable input, the NRC should be able to formulate reforms which should be acceptable by most Thai. Assuming this is correct, a referendum would be a waste of 3 - 4 billion Baht.

Of course if political strife results in only a limited number of Thais providing input the job is that much more difficult for the NRC, something which would show in their reporting.

Refresh my memory, who decides which of the applicants will be in the NRC? I know it involves a selection committee, but who selects the selection committee?

I see a pattern. In 2006 the constitution was changed so half the Senators were appointed by "good people"... then the Senators stack the court with political buddies. The court then throws out the elected PMs, one after another.

[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

"Lessons on democracy to be taught shortly"

This must be one of those jobs that only foreigners need to apply for.

[rubl]

I seem to remember that this time the army has said that there will be no referendum.

True, I also remember that.

It seems the reasoning behind that is that with the NRC consisting of mainly Thai who applied of were applied and having the NRC committees requesting all Thais to offer their valuable input, the NRC should be able to formulate reforms which should be acceptable by most Thai. Assuming this is correct, a referendum would be a waste of 3 - 4 billion Baht.

Of course if political strife results in only a limited number of Thais providing input the job is that much more difficult for the NRC, something which would show in their reporting.

Refresh my memory, who decides which of the applicants will be in the NRC? I know it involves a selection committee, but who selects the selection committee?

Please remind me, wasn't the application to the NRC committees open to all Thai?

BTW how do you think the NRC selection committee should have been put together?

[rubl]

I seem to remember that this time the army has said that there will be no referendum.

True, I also remember that.

It seems the reasoning behind that is that with the NRC consisting of mainly Thai who applied of were applied and having the NRC committees requesting all Thais to offer their valuable input, the NRC should be able to formulate reforms which should be acceptable by most Thai. Assuming this is correct, a referendum would be a waste of 3 - 4 billion Baht.

Of course if political strife results in only a limited number of Thais providing input the job is that much more difficult for the NRC, something which would show in their reporting.

Oh come on! Do you really believe that the junta will do anything other than stack the NRC with people who support their Yellow ideology, just like they did with the new Parliament?

And don't you see the contradiction between "requesting all Thais to offer their valuable input" and imposing draconian restrictions on free speech?

Oh come on, all Thai had the possibility to apply for a position on the NRC committees. If only proponents of reforms did so, then so be it.

As for contradiction, none. There is a difference in openly lambasting the NCPO and go into a few shoutcasts, and when asked to, in close groups give ideas on reforms and improvements.

Of course we would all like to have the fireworks from being of this year, but that didn't really help the country, now did it? Free speech suppressed with nightly gunfire and grenade lobbing fun.

[rubl]

I seem to remember that this time the army has said that there will be no referendum.

True, I also remember that.

It seems the reasoning behind that is that with the NRC consisting of mainly Thai who applied of were applied and having the NRC committees requesting all Thais to offer their valuable input, the NRC should be able to formulate reforms which should be acceptable by most Thai. Assuming this is correct, a referendum would be a waste of 3 - 4 billion Baht.

Of course if political strife results in only a limited number of Thais providing input the job is that much more difficult for the NRC, something which would show in their reporting.

Oh come on! Do you really believe that the junta will do anything other than stack the NRC with people who support their Yellow ideology, just like they did with the new Parliament?

And don't you see the contradiction between "requesting all Thais to offer their valuable input" and imposing draconian restrictions on free speech?

Sent from my IS11T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

There was an article in the BP last month that listed the 11 NRC selection committees. The majority of members from each committee were military or retired military.

Well, if you think we should first have a referendum to determine the NRC selection committees structure, following which an election to get the selection committee manned, we would still be at it, I'm afraid.

Of course the NCPO could have added some government bureaucrats, but that seems like an invitation to disaster.

Edited September 30, 2014 by rubl

[rubl]

"He urged the ministry to create a new culture in society for people to accurately understand democracy"

Just as child birth is painful pre-empting the arrival of a beautiful child. The birth of a return to democracy (not just elections) can be painful pre-empting the arrival of true democracy (all the principles). Well it is only painful to the UDD and the PTP. The majority through all failed elections, all polls and narrative support this. It is only a bitter twisted "belief" that keeps the 7% minority believing their twisted views.

The gestation period of an elephant is 680 days which is not dissimilar to the stated return to democracy the Good General has highlighted.

I look forward to that birth through education.

7%?

If the UDD and PTP retain just 7% support amongst the electorate why would the "Good General" not call an immediate election so the remaining 93% can romp home to victory and end the Thaksin era once and for all?

Truth is, PTP (or whatever new name they come up with after they are once again disbanded) will win the next election and the one after that and the one after that...

and I though I was a dreamer.

BTW I would imagine that one of the reform items will be the prohibition of criminal fugitives owning / running political parties and for political parties to go abroad visiting said criminals in order to get their latest orders.

Nothing against Thaksin in particular of course, just some laws, rules and regulations which are deemed normal in Western Democracies

Rubi, Please don't take this personally but from reading your posts it appears you get your information from the Thai Press.

There is not a free press in Thailand.

The stuff in the local papers is the stuff they allow to be printed. It's the stuff that they block that holds the key to the political dilemma.

Read the Wikileaks and the books they don't want you to read.

"Reform" means fixing things so the majority lose.

It would seem you suggest I only read certain wikileaks, ignoring others.

Reforms mean getting Thailand on the road to democracy. Is the NCPO the best way to do that? In Thailands case maybe, politicians made a mess of it.

Mind you, when / if succesfull there will be many on each side of the divide who will lament their loss.

[ThailandNoob]

True, I also remember that.

It seems the reasoning behind that is that with the NRC consisting of mainly Thai who applied of were applied and having the NRC committees requesting all Thais to offer their valuable input, the NRC should be able to formulate reforms which should be acceptable by most Thai. Assuming this is correct, a referendum would be a waste of 3 - 4 billion Baht.

Of course if political strife results in only a limited number of Thais providing input the job is that much more difficult for the NRC, something which would show in their reporting.

Oh come on! Do you really believe that the junta will do anything other than stack the NRC with people who support their Yellow ideology, just like they did with the new Parliament?

And don't you see the contradiction between "requesting all Thais to offer their valuable input" and imposing draconian restrictions on free speech?

Oh come on, all Thai had the possibility to apply for a position on the NRC committees. If only proponents of reforms did so, then so be it.

As for contradiction, none. There is a difference in openly lambasting the NCPO and go into a few shoutcasts, and when asked to, in close groups give ideas on reforms and improvements.

Of course we would all like to have the fireworks from being of this year, but that didn't really help the country, now did it? Free speech suppressed with nightly gunfire and grenade lobbing fun.

All Thais "had the possibility to apply for a position on the NRC committees", but who had the possibility of actually being selected?

People are getting locked up for a lot more than "going into a few shoutcasts". And what is wrong with lambasting a government? If it is false, then all the government needs to do is refute the critics point, and leave them with egg on their face. That is how healthy democracy works.

I already made it clear that I have zero sympathy with thugs who use violence to shut down elections and try to install a junta instead.

Sent from my IS11T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[climbertrev1]

You are aware that since 'Democracy' first inception in Thailand, that the military have been in power for more than any one civilian party. Do you not think they have to bare a large part of the responsibility for the current state of ills of the country, and secondly why in the world would they suddenly kill their own gravy train as well. The only reason the police have a worse reputation for corruption is they are in contact with the public a lot more. The corruption, cronyism and all other ills associated with the police are equally as prevalent in the army, they are just less visible to ordinary citizens. Would you trust the police reform run the country? No, so why do you trust the army?

Try to understand that to answer your question, I would have to accept those unsupported "facts" that you use to frame your question. Which leads me to ask "Why would i trust you?"

You need to learn to read. No where in the above does he ask you to trust him. As for the fact that the military has staged many many coups and held power for many many years. Those facts can easily be checked and cross checked from several sources freely available on the internet.

[heybruce]

I seem to remember that this time the army has said that there will be no referendum.

True, I also remember that.

It seems the reasoning behind that is that with the NRC consisting of mainly Thai who applied of were applied and having the NRC committees requesting all Thais to offer their valuable input, the NRC should be able to formulate reforms which should be acceptable by most Thai. Assuming this is correct, a referendum would be a waste of 3 - 4 billion Baht.

Of course if political strife results in only a limited number of Thais providing input the job is that much more difficult for the NRC, something which would show in their reporting.

Refresh my memory, who decides which of the applicants will be in the NRC? I know it involves a selection committee, but who selects the selection committee?

Please remind me, wasn't the application to the NRC committees open to all Thai?

BTW how do you think the NRC selection committee should have been put together?

All Iranians have a right to apply to run for political office, but the clerics decide who is allowed to run. Most of the outside world considers this undemocratic, but perhaps not China. They've decided on a similar model for elections in Hong Kong.

As I've stated before, I think there should have been an election in July. The Democrats could have campaigned on the promise of reform. If they or some combination of parties in favor of reform became the majority they could have decided how to reform once in government.

Of course for all this to have happened the military would have had to make it clear that they wanted illegal protests ended and they wanted a free, internationally monitored election. I think that just a clear statement to this effect would have been enough, but in the unlikely event that the protesters refused to leave areas they illegally occupied the military could have taken the same actions they took in 2010, only this time to defend an elected government (or the caretaker government appointed by the elected government). A lot of people pretend that the only options during the protests were continued chaos or a military coup. Actually there were many other options.

So in answer to both your questions, I don't think the NRC is unnecessary, I think reform could have been handled democratically, and I think it still can.

[halloween]

You are aware that since 'Democracy' first inception in Thailand, that the military have been in power for more than any one civilian party. Do you not think they have to bare a large part of the responsibility for the current state of ills of the country, and secondly why in the world would they suddenly kill their own gravy train as well. The only reason the police have a worse reputation for corruption is they are in contact with the public a lot more. The corruption, cronyism and all other ills associated with the police are equally as prevalent in the army, they are just less visible to ordinary citizens. Would you trust the police reform run the country? No, so why do you trust the army?

Try to understand that to answer your question, I would have to accept those unsupported "facts" that you use to frame your question. Which leads me to ask "Why would i trust you?"

You need to learn to read. No where in the above does he ask you to trust him. As for the fact that the military has staged many many coups and held power for many many years. Those facts can easily be checked and cross checked from several sources freely available on the internet.

You need to learn how to use the quote system, or your posts will be deleted. I have amended the above to show who said what.

BTW those "facts" were not the ones I disputed, rather the opinions presented as "facts" as outlined in an earlier reply.

[brucec64]

so far there is no mention of a referendum

but that is a red herring anyway

what good is voting on something when it has been created by the hand-pick lackies of the NCPO?

We were there once already

"hand-picked lackies" ?

Read a bit, my dear chap. The selection process for the 11 NRC committees is in progress. Of course, only those who applied will be considered.

Which reminds me, I still wonder about that Surin family with too many relatives wanting to help out. Till now no details. Former Senator Yutthana said he would petition the Adm. Court to suspend announcement of NRC members in the provinces. PM Prayut remarked that those who questioned the selection process could proceed as they saw fit. So maybe one of these days the prominent family will be made known and praised here on TVF

PS your "what good is voting" seems like a rhetorical question you answer yourself following which you continue with speculating on that answer. Interesting debating technique.

I have read a bit and "hand picked lackies" seems to be spot on.

Take a look at this article:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/764214-thienchay-and-chai-anan-are-frontrunners-for-nrc-chairman/

A source said the person who becomes NRC chairman is expected to have strong ties with the junta or is someone who takes orders from them.

Definition of lackey:

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/lackey

1.1 derogatory A person who is obsequiously willing to obey or serve another person: he denied that he was the lackey of the Chief Secretary to the Treasury

Well for one I don't think our dear member tbhailand would willingly make a derogatory remark about people hand-picked by Gen Prayut.

Furthermore I think the "obsequiously = obedient or attentive to an excessive or servile degree" makes the description reference to 'lackeys' incorrect.

Mind you, I also put this in relation to other examples where I don't think I've heard the word 'lackey' be used in descriptive sense. Not even for Ms. Yingluck pack of hand-picked members of her brothers cabinet.

Conclusion, you guys are just being your normal nasty self

As usual, you have chosen to ignore the core of the issue - A source said the person who becomes NRC chairman is expected to have strong ties with the junta or is someone who takes orders from them.

However, I will address the usage of the word "obsequiously = obedient or attentive to an excessive or servile degree"

While the NRC has not started work yet, the other hand-picked body, the NLA, has:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Rubber-stamp-NLA-could-be-waste-of-time-and-money-30241316.html

Of the 197 members in the assembly, only 17 reserved their right to speak on the budget bill in the first reading on Monday - and none of the 17 hailed from the military. As for the so-called debate, all the NLA members did was to praise or applaud the junta or express their gratitude to the paramount leader for choosing them to sit in this honourable post.

I cannot image a better example of the word "obsequiously"...

Edited September 30, 2014 by brucec64

[brucec64]

I seem to remember that this time the army has said that there will be no referendum.

True, I also remember that.

It seems the reasoning behind that is that with the NRC consisting of mainly Thai who applied of were applied and having the NRC committees requesting all Thais to offer their valuable input, the NRC should be able to formulate reforms which should be acceptable by most Thai. Assuming this is correct, a referendum would be a waste of 3 - 4 billion Baht.

Of course if political strife results in only a limited number of Thais providing input the job is that much more difficult for the NRC, something which would show in their reporting.

Refresh my memory, who decides which of the applicants will be in the NRC? I know it involves a selection committee, but who selects the selection committee?

Please remind me, wasn't the application to the NRC committees open to all Thai?

BTW how do you think the NRC selection committee should have been put together?

To answer the first part:

Application was "open" to all Thais, but political bias was a clear requirement, and part of a narrow social social group.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Leaked-NRC-names-disappointing-30244422.html

The 173 names of National Reform Council (NRC) members that were leaked yesterday clearly signify political bias and social exclusion, which could lead to unfair reform proposals that will make all reconciliation efforts fail, academics and politicians said.

Ekachai Chainuvati, deputy dean of law at Siam University, said the list wasn't surprising as the individuals had the "same political stance and military influence". He added that this would result in the exclusion of a large group in Thai society, resulting in "narrow" reform proposals.

To answer the second part:

The reform council should have been inclusive of all social groups, if the actual goal was real reform.

However, the goal is not real reform, but a reform that ensures that the "right" people stay in power.

One of the expected reforms is a diluted legislature. They may go the route of Hong Kong, with pre-screening of candidates, or the Burma route, with 25%(or so) of the legislature apointed by the military. Also, changing the constitution will require a super-majority, so basically no changes without the backing of the military. Unfortunately, the likely result of this, several years down the line, as voters become frustrated that their votes are meaningless, is exactly what is happening in Hong Kong right now.

If the goals were true reform, and true reconcilation, the makeup of the NRC would reflect this. At this point, it does not.

[rubl]

Oh come on, all Thai had the possibility to apply for a position on the NRC committees. If only proponents of reforms did so, then so be it.

As for contradiction, none. There is a difference in openly lambasting the NCPO and go into a few shoutcasts, and when asked to, in close groups give ideas on reforms and improvements.

Of course we would all like to have the fireworks from being of this year, but that didn't really help the country, now did it? Free speech suppressed with nightly gunfire and grenade lobbing fun.

All Thais "had the possibility to apply for a position on the NRC committees", but who had the possibility of actually being selected?

People are getting locked up for a lot more than "going into a few shoutcasts". And what is wrong with lambasting a government? If it is false, then all the government needs to do is refute the critics point, and leave them with egg on their face. That is how healthy democracy works.

I already made it clear that I have zero sympathy with thugs who use violence to shut down elections and try to install a junta instead.

Well first of all, it would seem that most Thai thought other could do the work as only 7500 or so actually applied or were applied. As for selection, no details yet who, but there was some complaint on a Surin family with lots of willing relatives. Again no details.

People get locked up for much more than only shoutcasts, true. As for lambasting the government, which government? Oh, the NLA. Right. Lambasting them is possible, but should be more than just being negative, a wee bit of constructive comment would be really appreciated. As for healthy democracy, well Thailand never had that, so it never worked like that here.

As for 'thugs' well let's say that there are other examples of anti-government protesters being misunderstood.

[rubl]

Please remind me, wasn't the application to the NRC committees open to all Thai?

BTW how do you think the NRC selection committee should have been put together?

All Iranians have a right to apply to run for political office, but the clerics decide who is allowed to run. Most of the outside world considers this undemocratic, but perhaps not China. They've decided on a similar model for elections in Hong Kong.

As I've stated before, I think there should have been an election in July. The Democrats could have campaigned on the promise of reform. If they or some combination of parties in favor of reform became the majority they could have decided how to reform once in government.

Of course for all this to have happened the military would have had to make it clear that they wanted illegal protests ended and they wanted a free, internationally monitored election. I think that just a clear statement to this effect would have been enough, but in the unlikely event that the protesters refused to leave areas they illegally occupied the military could have taken the same actions they took in 2010, only this time to defend an elected government (or the caretaker government appointed by the elected government). A lot of people pretend that the only options during the protests were continued chaos or a military coup. Actually there were many other options.

So in answer to both your questions, I don't think the NRC is unnecessary, I think reform could have been handled democratically, and I think it still can.

Well, the Yingluck Administration with Ms. Yingluck doing all the 'feel good' talks and presentations wasn't into reforms. Even their belated attempt was just window dressing. As such Thai democracy couldn't handle and Thai politicians didn't want to handle 'tricky' issues.

It's interesting that the Minimum Wage was introduced by a junta and that the 'property and inheritance tax' is introduced AGAIN by a junta after an appointed government was told to drop it as it should be handled by an elected government only. It seems only juntas and their appointed governments are able to push through reforms good for the common people, but opposed by politicians.

Curious, ain't it.

[ThailandNoob]

Oh come on, all Thai had the possibility to apply for a position on the NRC committees. If only proponents of reforms did so, then so be it.

As for contradiction, none. There is a difference in openly lambasting the NCPO and go into a few shoutcasts, and when asked to, in close groups give ideas on reforms and improvements.

Of course we would all like to have the fireworks from being of this year, but that didn't really help the country, now did it? Free speech suppressed with nightly gunfire and grenade lobbing fun.

All Thais "had the possibility to apply for a position on the NRC committees", but who had the possibility of actually being selected?

People are getting locked up for a lot more than "going into a few shoutcasts". And what is wrong with lambasting a government? If it is false, then all the government needs to do is refute the critics point, and leave them with egg on their face. That is how healthy democracy works.

I already made it clear that I have zero sympathy with thugs who use violence to shut down elections and try to install a junta instead.

Well first of all, it would seem that most Thai thought other could do the work as only 7500 or so actually applied or were applied. As for selection, no details yet who, but there was some complaint on a Surin family with lots of willing relatives. Again no details.

People get locked up for much more than only shoutcasts, true. As for lambasting the government, which government? Oh, the NLA. Right. Lambasting them is possible, but should be more than just being negative, a wee bit of constructive comment would be really appreciated. As for healthy democracy, well Thailand never had that, so it never worked like that here.

As for 'thugs' well let's say that there are other examples of anti-government protesters being misunderstood.

You keep banging on about this "constructive criticism is OK" mantra, but "constructive criticism" is a very subjective term. Let's look at how it is being interpreted now. Academics are being hounded by the junta for publishing well thought out essays on why military rule is a bad idea. People are being dragged off the street for silently reading 1984.

And what is there to "misunderstand" about a movement using violence to scare people away from participating in elections?

Sent from my IS11T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[halloween]

You keep banging on about this "constructive criticism is OK" mantra, but "constructive criticism" is a very subjective term. Let's look at how it is being interpreted now. Academics are being hounded by the junta for publishing well thought out essays on why military rule is a bad idea. People are being dragged off the street for silently reading 1984.

And what is there to "misunderstand" about a movement using violence to scare people away from participating in elections?

Sent from my IS11T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

So how would you describe a movement using violence to scare people away from participating in protests against a corrupt government?