Are Buddhists Atheist

[the swagman]

The Dalai Lama, does not use the term atheist. He said he is a non believer, he does believe in an eternal God.

Buddhists on the whole tend not to think of the 'after life'.

To Buddhists there is no hel_l or heaven.

Buddha taught of the four truths, and then announced the 8 fold path to break the cycle of rebirth, which is the end of suffering.

[camerata]

The Dalai Lama, does not use the term atheist. He said he is a non believer, he does believe in an eternal God.

Buddhists on the whole tend not to think of the 'after life'.

To Buddhists there is no hel_l or heaven.

Perhaps not in the Christian sense of there being just two places your soul can go after death for all eternity, but most Buddhists accept that there are heavenly realms and he11 realms of some sort and most Buddhists think about "after life" in the sense of heading for a "next life." But I don't think heaven and he11 make any difference to the definition of an atheist, since it's all about non-belief in gods and not worshipping gods.

I agree with the Dalai Lama that it's better to term oneself a non-believer than an atheist, which has a rather harsh rejectionist sound to it and is probably more likely to antagonize Christians and Muslims.

[bankei]

The Dalai Lama, does not use the term atheist. He said he is a non believer, he does believe in an eternal God.

Did you miss a "not" in the above sentence? ie. the Dalai Lama "does not beleive in an eternal God".? I would find it very strange if he did beleive in a God.

To Buddhists there is no hel_l or heaven.

What gives you this idea?

In the Pali Suttas there are numerous refences to heavens and hells!

Bankei

[JoySword]

In the Pali Suttas there are numerous refences to heavens and hells!

You are correct, Bankei. However, in a Christian context (and so frequently a Western context), "heaven" and "hel_l" are things that last forever. Once you are in one or the other, you never leave. The heavens and hells referred to in the Pali canon are realms where beings are born, live a life and die. Then they pass to another life in (possibly) another realm.

[bankei]

As there are no Gods or deities in Buddisum they must be athiest.

I would agree that Buddhism is atheistic in the sense of denying a creator type God.

However, do you consider the Deva gods or dieties?

There are plenty of references to Devas in the Suttas. There are even refences to other gods such as Brahma. The Buddha going to the Tushita heaven to preach to his deceased mother etc.

In the Mahaparinibanna Sutta, as the Buddha is dying, he asks teh monk Upavana to move back as most of the Devas of the 10 thousand world systems had assembled to see him. There was not one spot that could be pierced with the tip of a hair that was free.

Then, after the Buddha died, 8 of the Kusinara Malla prices tried to lift his body, but they were prevented in doing so because they had different ideas than the Deva's.

There is a good academic paper on this topic by Prof Richard Hayes on "Principled Atheism in the Buddhist Scholastic Tradition"

Download at http://www.unm.edu/~rhayes/atheism.pdf

Of course all of this is scriptural evidence. You must also consider what actual Buddhists believe. In Thailand I have met some people whose conception of the Buddha is almost that of a God.

Bankei

[banchang]

To put this one to bed finaly , Johnathan Millar Intervied HIS HOLINESS THE DALAI LAMA and asked him this very question.

His answer was yes Buhddists are athiests.

[sabaijai]

To put this one to bed finaly ...

Only if you accept the Dalai Lama as the ulitmate authority on Buddhist philosophy.

Another view:

Is Buddhism Atheistic?

By: Venerable Dr. K. Sri Dhammananda

Excerpt from the book " What Buddhists Believe"

Atheism is associated with a materialistic doctrine that knows nothing higher than this world.

The Buddha has condemned godlessness by which He meant the denial of worship and renunciation, the denial of moral and social obligations, and the denial of a religious life. He recognized most emphatically the existence of moral and spiritual values. He acclaimed the supremacy of the moral law. Only in one sense can Buddhism be described as atheistic, namely, in so far as it denies the existence of an eternal omnipotent God or God-head who is the creator and ordainer of the world. The word 'atheism', however, frequently carries a number of disparaging overtones or implications which are in no way applicable to the Buddha's Teaching. Those who use the word 'atheism', often associate it with a materialistic doctrine that knows nothing higher than this world of the senses and the slight happiness it can bestow. Buddhism advocates nothing of that sort.

There is no justification for the branding Buddhist as atheists, nihilists, pagans, heathens or communists just because they do not believe in a Creator God. The Buddhist concept of God is different from that of other religions. Differences in belief do not justify name-calling and slanderous words.

Buddhism agrees with other religions that true and lasting happiness cannot be found in this material world . The Buddha adds that true and lasting happiness cannot be found on the higher or supramundane plane of existence to which the name of heavenly or divine world is given. While the spiritual values advocated by buddhism are orienttated to a state transcending separation between the 'beyond' and the ' here and now'. They have firm roots in the world itself, for they aim at the highest realisation in this present existence. Source: Great Wisdom Facts

and

The Buddha himself rejected metaphysical speculation as a matter of principle, and his teachings focused entirely on the practical ways to end suffering.

On the other hand, the Buddha did not explicitly rule out the existence of a God or gods, and very shortly after his death a devotional element formed within Buddhism. Stupas were built to contain relics of the Buddha and pilgrimmages were made to places where he had walked. Source: Religion Facts

[the swagman]

The Dalai Lama, does not use the term atheist. He said he is a non believer, he does believe in an eternal God.

Did you miss a "not" in the above sentence? ie. the Dalai Lama "does not beleive in an eternal God".? I would find it very strange if he did beleive in a God.

To Buddhists there is no hel_l or heaven.

What gives you this idea?

In the Pali Suttas there are numerous refences to heavens and hells!

Bankei

Bankei, yes I did. Apologies.

Thank you Joy Sword for your explanation.

There are no permanent heaven or hel_l, but as JS said realms. These are impermanent and, you may or maynot remain there. There is no meeting of the maker, (as there is none, or is unimportant) to decide if you go up or down.

Buddha did not dismiss Gods outright, he said he never met one one he believed.

[sabaijai]

Bhuridatta Jataka:

If the creator of the world entire

They call God, of every being be the Lord

Why does he order such misfortune

And not create concord?

If the creator of the world entire

They call God, of every being be the Lord

Why prevail deceit, lies and ignorance

And he such inequity and injustice create?

If the creator of the world entire

They call God, of every being be the Lord

Then an evil master is he,

Knowing what's right did let wrong prevail!

The Buddha argues that the three most commonly given attributes of God, viz. omnipotence, omniscience and benevolence towards humanity cannot all be mutually compatible with the existential fact of dukkha.