Costs & Expectations of Expat Aging Gay

[Scott]

Being a suburban type of guy in your own country and being a country bumpkin in a foreign land are very different. I've been in Thailand for many years and before that spent most of my life in very rural settings, including Northern Canada. I like a more rural life, but Thai villages are a little too --- well, not to my liking.

Do you plan on eating the local food, which may include some rather unpalatable things, unless you like insects, for example?

Do you plan to have a boy friend, who may feel very, very uncomfortable living in a village that isn't his own family/friends?

Do you plan to have a car to get to town for some social life?

Do you like to go to bed at 9:00 p.m., except when the local temple has a fair and you get to stay up all night while the villagers drink and gamble?

Rural life in Thailand has it's charms, but you are not moving there with someone; you will be a stranger in the village.

[onthemoon]

Living in a city does not mean that you have to go out every night. I live in a quiet dead-end street. However, I have the choice to use the Skytrain and go out whenever I like.

Anyway, give it a trial run. Believe us - the people who live here - that Thailand, urban, suburban and rural - cannot be compared to the US. You have to come an feel it, no description will ever come close.

Some people love Thailand from the first moment they set foot on it, others hate it right away. Some grow to love it. Everybody is different; you have to feel it by yourself.

[thaicurious]

Being a suburban type of guy in your own country and being a country bumpkin in a foreign land are very different. I've been in Thailand for many years and before that spent most of my life in very rural settings, including Northern Canada. I like a more rural life, but Thai villages are a little too --- well, not to my liking.

Do you plan on eating the local food, which may include some rather unpalatable things, unless you like insects, for example?

Do you plan to have a boy friend, who may feel very, very uncomfortable living in a village that isn't his own family/friends?

Do you plan to have a car to get to town for some social life?

Do you like to go to bed at 9:00 p.m., except when the local temple has a fair and you get to stay up all night while the villagers drink and gamble?

Rural life in Thailand has it's charms, but you are not moving there with someone; you will be a stranger in the village.

Insects? Yikes. No. I don't even eat hamburger. But Thai basil tofu is one of my favorites. Tonight for dinner I had home-style bean curd with mixed vegies and rice. Yum. The only western stuff I really like are breads, cheeses (which I understand might be an issue) and pizza. But outside of NYC it's hard to find good pizza anywhere so I've no great expectations. For supplementing protein and can do some fish if I have to but also I was reading another thread and I see that whey protein is reasonably priced compared to here so I'd have that too. Much less crunchy than insect, I'd imagine.

Regarding suburbia, I mean in the city planning sense, still urban but not city center, certainly not rural. I made the comment earlier on Isaan because I was questioned why I posted in the Gay forum to which I answered that to me that seems a different circumstance than a hetero person might experience having the ability to marry and to build or buy a house on some rural land. So I thought the opportunity to contain costs might be different depending on sexual orientation by way of restrictions of law and who knows what else. Sure if I had a great guy who I loved, then it wouldn't matter much where I was, rural or otherwise.

Do I plan on having a boyfriend? Widows don't plan. So what will be will be. Though it isn't as if I don't run into it here, I am a little hesitant about being in a community so focused on the young as mentioned by onthemoon and about which I suspected, if only by the expressed presumption of most anyone who I mention Thailand to.

But otherwise, were the person I might find not into rural life, I certainly wouldn't lead us there. By suburban I simply meant not right in town, but towards the outskirts while being still accessible, not all the signage and busy-ness right at the front door, though I probably would live like that for a year or more while settling in, if I decide on this direction at all, obviously. For now I'm thinking of doing an exploratory run but then putting the decision on hold at least until right before I hit 60 to give me the chance to get into the insurance system there if I decide on that course.

[thaicurious]

Living in a city does not mean that you have to go out every night. I live in a quiet dead-end street. However, I have the choice to use the Skytrain and go out whenever I like.

Anyway, give it a trial run. Believe us - the people who live here - that Thailand, urban, suburban and rural - cannot be compared to the US. You have to come an feel it, no description will ever come close.

Some people love Thailand from the first moment they set foot on it, others hate it right away. Some grow to love it. Everybody is different; you have to feel it by yourself.

Yeah, I agree with that. And I've lived in (smaller) city centers and simply paced myself. I'm not real sure as to the benefit of an exploratory visit to see if I like a place. I think more likely I'd be doing that to see if I'd hate a place. I say that because I am concerned about the language problem. I have lived in the Caribbean where was not so much English and what was English was at first difficult to decipher but I've been living in the USA for decades now so am used to this.

So I say that I wouldn't be visiting to see if I would like a place, because, well, I can't imagine not liking it, even if I did a few months. During that time it would still have all the excitement, distraction, et al. I'd think you'd only really know after a few years and by then, of course, it would be difficult to transition back, especially trying to find employment in my 50s now instead of in my 60s then.

Employment is also an issue. I retired early and find that I'm not really liking it. So while relocating to such an exotic (to me) location would probably be very distracting and interesting and fun for even five years or more, I worry how I might feel in my mid 60s into my 70s. Will I be bored by then and at that point, in a foreign country, I'd have even less access to participating in society than I'd have here. So that concerns me. On the 27th hand, skyrocketing health care costs scare the hell out of me. And not that I need it now but I don't know tomorrow. See, analysis paralysis. It's my specialty.

Life was easier when I was 14 doing errands around the house and collecting my allowance for getting good grades. How do I get back there?

[Scott]

OK. I live in a very nice Moo bahn in a district of Bangkok. I am sort of on the edge of the city, so there are rice fields and cattle and goats within site of where I live. The Moo bahn is very, very nice and the people living here are what would be considered upper middle class. There are no families with less than 2 cars and about 25% have a Mercedes or a BWM. The area is quiet and nice and the people are amiable.

My home is next to my work so I have people around who whom I can communicate. Virtually none of my neighbors (with a very exceptions) are conversant in English. As I said, the neighbors are amiable, but they are little too rich to be overtly friendly. I have a partner we have lived here for nearly 5 years. He has never met one person. I have made it a point to introduce myself.

We are not within walking distance of anything -- no 7/11, no supermarket no real shops for at least a couple of kilometers. No food vendors anywhere to be seen and certainly none would be allowed into the Moo Bahn.

When I have visitors from overseas, I usually put them in a hotel downtown if I am working because they just will not be able to get around (even though there are a lot of taxi's on the road--there are two LPG stations, so they fill up there).

Sooooo, you might want to find yourself a reasonably nice place very close to easy access to the city center and the gay scene. If you find someone and decide to settle down then look for a place you wish to remain longer.

[onthemoon]

Being a suburban type of guy in your own country and being a country bumpkin in a foreign land are very different. I've been in Thailand for many years and before that spent most of my life in very rural settings, including Northern Canada. I like a more rural life, but Thai villages are a little too --- well, not to my liking.

Do you plan on eating the local food, which may include some rather unpalatable things, unless you like insects, for example?

Do you plan to have a boy friend, who may feel very, very uncomfortable living in a village that isn't his own family/friends?

Do you plan to have a car to get to town for some social life?

Do you like to go to bed at 9:00 p.m., except when the local temple has a fair and you get to stay up all night while the villagers drink and gamble?

Rural life in Thailand has it's charms, but you are not moving there with someone; you will be a stranger in the village.

Insects? Yikes. No. I don't even eat hamburger. But Thai basil tofu is one of my favorites. Tonight for dinner I had home-style bean curd with mixed vegies and rice. Yum. The only western stuff I really like are breads, cheeses (which I understand might be an issue) and pizza. But outside of NYC it's hard to find good pizza anywhere so I've no great expectations. For supplementing protein and can do some fish if I have to but also I was reading another thread and I see that whey protein is reasonably priced compared to here so I'd have that too. Much less crunchy than insect, I'd imagine.

Regarding suburbia, I mean in the city planning sense, still urban but not city center, certainly not rural. I made the comment earlier on Isaan because I was questioned why I posted in the Gay forum to which I answered that to me that seems a different circumstance than a hetero person might experience having the ability to marry and to build or buy a house on some rural land. So I thought the opportunity to contain costs might be different depending on sexual orientation by way of restrictions of law and who knows what else. Sure if I had a great guy who I loved, then it wouldn't matter much where I was, rural or otherwise.

Do I plan on having a boyfriend? Widows don't plan. So what will be will be. Though it isn't as if I don't run into it here, I am a little hesitant about being in a community so focused on the young as mentioned by onthemoon and about which I suspected, if only by the expressed presumption of most anyone who I mention Thailand to.

But otherwise, were the person I might find not into rural life, I certainly wouldn't lead us there. By suburban I simply meant not right in town, but towards the outskirts while being still accessible, not all the signage and busy-ness right at the front door, though I probably would live like that for a year or more while settling in, if I decide on this direction at all, obviously. For now I'm thinking of doing an exploratory run but then putting the decision on hold at least until right before I hit 60 to give me the chance to get into the insurance system there if I decide on that course.

I didn't mean to say that the Thai community is focussed on the young, to the contrary. I said that all kinds of age combinations are common in Thailand.

You don't need to eat insects if you don't want to. And forget about your experience of Asian food in the US, it simply isn't the same as in Asia. Stop asking things on the internet, come over and feel it. Everything else is a waste of time - yours and ours.

[onthemoon]

Living in a city does not mean that you have to go out every night. I live in a quiet dead-end street. However, I have the choice to use the Skytrain and go out whenever I like.

Anyway, give it a trial run. Believe us - the people who live here - that Thailand, urban, suburban and rural - cannot be compared to the US. You have to come an feel it, no description will ever come close.

Some people love Thailand from the first moment they set foot on it, others hate it right away. Some grow to love it. Everybody is different; you have to feel it by yourself.

Yeah, I agree with that. And I've lived in (smaller) city centers and simply paced myself. I'm not real sure as to the benefit of an exploratory visit to see if I like a place. I think more likely I'd be doing that to see if I'd hate a place. I say that because I am concerned about the language problem. I have lived in the Caribbean where was not so much English and what was English was at first difficult to decipher but I've been living in the USA for decades now so am used to this.

So I say that I wouldn't be visiting to see if I would like a place, because, well, I can't imagine not liking it, even if I did a few months. During that time it would still have all the excitement, distraction, et al. I'd think you'd only really know after a few years and by then, of course, it would be difficult to transition back, especially trying to find employment in my 50s now instead of in my 60s then.

Employment is also an issue. I retired early and find that I'm not really liking it. So while relocating to such an exotic (to me) location would probably be very distracting and interesting and fun for even five years or more, I worry how I might feel in my mid 60s into my 70s. Will I be bored by then and at that point, in a foreign country, I'd have even less access to participating in society than I'd have here. So that concerns me. On the 27th hand, skyrocketing health care costs scare the hell out of me. And not that I need it now but I don't know tomorrow. See, analysis paralysis. It's my specialty.

Life was easier when I was 14 doing errands around the house and collecting my allowance for getting good grades. How do I get back there?

You need employment? That's a totally different can of worms.

I thought you were looking at retiring here.

[thaicurious]

OK. I live in a very nice Moo bahn in a district of Bangkok. I am sort of on the edge of the city, so there are rice fields and cattle and goats within site of where I live. The Moo bahn is very, very nice and the people living here are what would be considered upper middle class. There are no families with less than 2 cars and about 25% have a Mercedes or a BWM. The area is quiet and nice and the people are amiable.

My home is next to my work so I have people around who whom I can communicate. Virtually none of my neighbors (with a very exceptions) are conversant in English. As I said, the neighbors are amiable, but they are little too rich to be overtly friendly. I have a partner we have lived here for nearly 5 years. He has never met one person. I have made it a point to introduce myself.

We are not within walking distance of anything -- no 7/11, no supermarket no real shops for at least a couple of kilometers. No food vendors anywhere to be seen and certainly none would be allowed into the Moo Bahn.

When I have visitors from overseas, I usually put them in a hotel downtown if I am working because they just will not be able to get around (even though there are a lot of taxi's on the road--there are two LPG stations, so they fill up there).

Sooooo, you might want to find yourself a reasonably nice place very close to easy access to the city center and the gay scene. If you find someone and decide to settle down then look for a place you wish to remain longer.

I've never seen the word Moo bahn so I googled. found this guy http://tonyinthailand.com/moo-baan-living/. Looks very nice if that's the scene you're into but I tend to avoid gated communities. If my choice was a gated suburb or in city, I'd probably opt for in city. But the price shown on that website I just posted is pretty incredible for all those facilities.

When I lived in town and where I relocated to the suburbs (20 minutes outside of downtown), I tend to socialize with neighbors even when they don't know each other. I was raised in a smallish town with block parties and always enjoyed that. Just this afternoon I had lunch with a neighbor. So maybe living in city might suit me better over there.

It's becoming such an isolating world with computers and everyone's face in their phones that I wouldn't want to exacerbate that by putting myself behind a gate. I do get the allure of it. My brother lives in one here. It's just not my style. But anyway, by your description of living there I understand better your message that I'll find more English speakers within the city, less the more I leave it, and that would be a big consideration to my comfort.

[thaicurious]

Living in a city does not mean that you have to go out every night. I live in a quiet dead-end street. However, I have the choice to use the Skytrain and go out whenever I like.

Anyway, give it a trial run. Believe us - the people who live here - that Thailand, urban, suburban and rural - cannot be compared to the US. You have to come an feel it, no description will ever come close.

Some people love Thailand from the first moment they set foot on it, others hate it right away. Some grow to love it. Everybody is different; you have to feel it by yourself.

Yeah, I agree with that. And I've lived in (smaller) city centers and simply paced myself. I'm not real sure as to the benefit of an exploratory visit to see if I like a place. I think more likely I'd be doing that to see if I'd hate a place. I say that because I am concerned about the language problem. I have lived in the Caribbean where was not so much English and what was English was at first difficult to decipher but I've been living in the USA for decades now so am used to this.

So I say that I wouldn't be visiting to see if I would like a place, because, well, I can't imagine not liking it, even if I did a few months. During that time it would still have all the excitement, distraction, et al. I'd think you'd only really know after a few years and by then, of course, it would be difficult to transition back, especially trying to find employment in my 50s now instead of in my 60s then.

Employment is also an issue. I retired early and find that I'm not really liking it. So while relocating to such an exotic (to me) location would probably be very distracting and interesting and fun for even five years or more, I worry how I might feel in my mid 60s into my 70s. Will I be bored by then and at that point, in a foreign country, I'd have even less access to participating in society than I'd have here. So that concerns me. On the 27th hand, skyrocketing health care costs scare the hell out of me. And not that I need it now but I don't know tomorrow. See, analysis paralysis. It's my specialty.

Life was easier when I was 14 doing errands around the house and collecting my allowance for getting good grades. How do I get back there?

You need employment? That's a totally different can of worms.

I thought you were looking at retiring here.

I would not require in Thailand employment for income to live on.

Edited October 7, 2014 by thaicurious

[onthemoon]

Employment is also an issue. I retired early and find that I'm not really liking it. So while relocating to such an exotic (to me) location would probably be very distracting and interesting and fun for even five years or more, I worry how I might feel in my mid 60s into my 70s. Will I be bored by then and at that point, in a foreign country, I'd have even less access to participating in society than I'd have here. So that concerns me. On the 27th hand, skyrocketing health care costs scare the hell out of me. And not that I need it now but I don't know tomorrow. See, analysis paralysis. It's my specialty.

Life was easier when I was 14 doing errands around the house and collecting my allowance for getting good grades. How do I get back there?

You need employment? That's a totally different can of worms.

I thought you were looking at retiring here.

I would not require in Thailand employment for income to live on.

Good to hear.

You can't be employed or work otherwise without a work permit, and you won't get a work permit on a retirement visa.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

It's becoming such an isolating world with computers and everyone's face in their phones that I wouldn't want to exacerbate that by putting myself behind a gate. I do get the allure of it. My brother lives in one here. It's just not my style. But anyway, by your description of living there I understand better your message that I'll find more English speakers within the city, less the more I leave it, and that would be a big consideration to my comfort.

No, it's good. I live in a place like that.

In the evening we bung all the kids out in the road, and they race up and down on their cycles and trucks.

Mums, grans, etc. go outside and socialize, and pick up the fallen kids and help them off again.

They can't escape, cos the guards don't let them off the estate.

PS

My mate just messaged me, big gay/ladyboy event currently happening in the road outside Blue Boy (gay) bar, at Tanin Market, Chang Puak, CM.

Edited October 7, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[thaicurious]

Another question:

What becomes of single gay guys who don't have the support of family in Thailand who succumb later in life to dementia? If I noticed that in me I now like to think that I'd off myself but there'd be just a window of opportunity, I'd have to give up some good life to avoid what I consider nonsense; yet during deterioration, a person can be lulled into thinking things will be okay, or might not have the courage or for whatever other reason might miss that window of opportunity to end life while degrading into full blown dementia.

I'd think that facilities in Thailand would be more affordable and I've priced some of that. Also, my thinking is that the Thai people are more considerate of their elderly than many are in the West plus I'd think it beneficial living in a culture of compassion as fostered in Buddhism. What is particularly scary about aging in the states as a gay man without children but with the possibility of future dementia is being placed in a facility staffed, as they often are, by people from the Caribbean where homophobia runs rampant. Having no children, I'd have no one to check up on me. Or would a facility staffed by non English speakers be even more confusing to the elderly. Would there be somewhat less risk at least to personal safety in a Thai facility or does physical distance from any relations negate that? Does that make sense and does anyone have stats or info or thoughts on that?

How do you guys plan for your very elderly years in a foreign land?

[onthemoon]

Before you think of old age and dementia, I suggest you come to Thailand at least for a vacation.

[Scott]

If you have dementia and you live in a moo bahn (gated community), you will be OK. The guards won't let you out.

We cannot--or I should say--I cannot answer every contingency that comes up. There is a lot of theft and burglary, that is why there are A LOT of gated communities. Even Condominiums and apartment buildings have 24 hour security.

[thaicurious]

Before you think of old age and dementia, I suggest you come to Thailand at least for a vacation.

At my rate, all that might coincide.

I am considering a trip of a month or three and started pricing flights but I've already got a different, smaller trip upcoming so this might be delayed a year. I would want to make that decision by 60 so I've a timer on. Also I'm unable to kid myself about the value of an exploratory vacation there. I know me. There is no way that I could visit LOS for three months and not have a great time. So I doubt the value of basing my forecasting upon perceptions gained from that experience. It might open my eyes more to whatever level of poverty I see and that sadness, animal abuses, etc., but it's hard to imagine the good aspects not outweighing that. Someone else might benefit more from such a visit but for me likely I'd just have more on both sides of the equation to further my mulling it about.

I've never been one to wade into the water. Because until you get your balls wet you just wind up soaking your ankles. So I just jump in. And I find that even if the water was colder than you'd prefer, once you start swimming around, you wind up okay. I think I'll be okay. I just have to figure out whether or not to jump.

[thaicurious]

If you have dementia and you live in a moo bahn (gated community), you will be OK. The guards won't let you out.

We cannot--or I should say--I cannot answer every contingency that comes up. There is a lot of theft and burglary, that is why there are A LOT of gated communities. Even Condominiums and apartment buildings have 24 hour security.

Thanx. I hadn't even looked much into crime there so I'm starting to read about that. I usually figure that I can take care of myself and so my concern is what happens when I become much more aged. But finding interesting things so lots to think about. My initial overall impression from my quick reads since reading your post is some pretty odd and terrible things but also not a lot of it. I'll study that further.

Interesting aspect you bring up comparing a gated community to a secured individual building. So then given rising petty crime but wanting to remain social a secure building in town might make sense for me. Very interesting the idea of guards doubling as caregivers, at least at the gate, but dementia is a bit more involved, feeding, cleaning, etc. so I'd try to have in place an alternative should I fail to catch my window to end my life with what I consider dignity, hanging in the bathroom haha.

Also, while looking into care there, I found some mention that lead me to look into the Philippines, though not being a Buddhist culture, that would not be my first pick. But while looking at that I was watching a youtube about exchange rates as an expat concern. So I looked into the history of the Thai baht. So tell me if my thinking sounds correct:

Firstly, I found this:

http://www.xe.com/currency/thb-thai-baht

Introduction of the Thai Baht

Until 1880, the Thai Baht was fixed to the British Pound at a rate of 8 TBH to 1 GBP. This rate changed several times until the Baht was re-pegged to the Japanese Yen at par during World War II. After the war, the currency changed its peg to 20.8 Baht per 1 US Dollar, then to 20 Baht per US Dollar in 1978, and to 25 Baht in 1984.

Financial Crisis

In 1997, Thailand fell into financial crisis. The Baht lost half of its value prompting the adoption of a floating exchange rate regime. Since the economic collapse, the Thai Baht has stabilized.

Unofficially, the Thai Baht is used in Laos, Cambodia, and Myanmar.

Then I looked up details on the historical exchange rate. So essentially it seems that when the baht was last pegged, it was 25 to the US dollar. When unpegged and first floated, it jumped (or from their perspective, declined) to about 41 to the dollar at about the 1997 collapse and since then has fluxuated, floating between the high 30s to the high 20s to the dollar 1998ish through today such that the last 13 years averaged about 35 baht to the dollar.

So my thinking is that it would be very unusual for the baht to ever (within my lifetime) drop to below 25 to the US dollar, and that the most likely scenario would be for it to float pretty much where it is now because that average includes also the US near-collapse of 2007/2008 when the baht was valued at 29 to the dollar. So outside of a worldwide financial meltdown when no one who would say knows what would happen, that 25 to 30 range ought to be my worst case scenario to reasonably consider. Does that sound right? (and I get that there's inflation on top of that.)

PS. On gated communities. Are expats able to own the house on the land if it is in a gated community. In other worlds, does that make the land act as if it were a condominium with the house acting as a unit. Or when buying into a gated community is it not fee simple but some sort of leasehold? If owning a single family house in a gated community is held fee simple, might that explain their abundance more so than as an issue of crime?

Edited October 9, 2014 by thaicurious

[sustento]

Non Thais can't own land. That's it.

Does us a favour. Buy a ticket and get on a plane.

[thaicurious]

Non Thais can't own land. That's it.

Does us a favour. Buy a ticket and get on a plane.

I didn't think land could be owned outright, but asking about the house, the structure above ground in particular, and wondering also if there was any ownership in common about the grounds of a gated community, not unlike zero lot line communities here, or perhaps some sort of in-trust as there might be with the common areas of a condominium. But thank you for your clarification on that.

Not sure how I feel about the mixed-message invite, however. Pardon me if I've asked too many questions. Didn't realize I'd gone over my limit. I'm not sure but I think with airline cutbacks I'd have to pay extra to pack all my questions in a separate bag so thought I could handle that in advance online. My mistake?

[sustento]

You can own as many houses as you can afford. You can't own the land they're built on.

You can carry on asking all the questions in the world. None of them nor the answers to them will make any difference until you actually visit and see whether you like the place or not.

[sustento]

You can own a condo outright as long as there are only 49% foreign owners in the building.

[onthemoon]

Before you think of old age and dementia, I suggest you come to Thailand at least for a vacation.

At my rate, all that might coincide.

I am considering a trip of a month or three and started pricing flights but I've already got a different, smaller trip upcoming so this might be delayed a year. I would want to make that decision by 60 so I've a timer on. Also I'm unable to kid myself about the value of an exploratory vacation there. I know me. There is no way that I could visit LOS for three months and not have a great time. So I doubt the value of basing my forecasting upon perceptions gained from that experience. It might open my eyes more to whatever level of poverty I see and that sadness, animal abuses, etc., but it's hard to imagine the good aspects not outweighing that. Someone else might benefit more from such a visit but for me likely I'd just have more on both sides of the equation to further my mulling it about.

I've never been one to wade into the water. Because until you get your balls wet you just wind up soaking your ankles. So I just jump in. And I find that even if the water was colder than you'd prefer, once you start swimming around, you wind up okay. I think I'll be okay. I just have to figure out whether or not to jump.

Then jump or don't. Stop procrastinating.

[onthemoon]

You can own a condo outright as long as there are only 49% foreign owners in the building.

... as long as no more than 49% of the livable area of the condos (in square meters) is owned by foreigners. But that is irrelevant if he never comes here to take a look.

I start to get a feeling that he is just playing a brain-game and is involving us at his leisure, and has no plans to ever come here.

[thaicurious]

How disgusting to read such trolling responses. Thank you for nothing. Fact is I'm just off the phone with my brother advising me to not tell our dad my plans on our upcoming trip.

I thought I could get some answers here from current expats. I'll see if I can find a better forum. Thank you to the few who answered sincerely. To hell with those who felt like trolling me. Perhaps if I mailed you a few extra baht you could get a happy ending so you don't take your frustrations out strangers who seek information here. You're pathetic.

Respond to this or not. No matter to me. I will not see it.

[sustento]

You've had plenty of answers. The fact that some of them might be unpalatable doesn't alter the fact that in order to decide whether you like somewhere you have to visit it first. If you come for 30 days or less you won't even need to organise a visa.

Edit: You won't find any other forums about Thailand that have a tenth the expertise that's contained on Thaivisa especially as far as gay questions are concerned.

Edited October 10, 2014 by sustento

[Scott]

The difficulty is that every question answered raises more questions. It gets to be a little circular in nature.

A lot of your questions can't really be answered. As one posted suggested, you need to make a visit and see if you like the place. Many of your questions will be answered after you have been here. You will have many more questions, but they will likely be a little more focused and thus easier to answer.

[dundas]

I agree with everyone - make the trip.

My Thai students advised me many years ago to visit Chiang Mai because "it's a lovely little place in the hills" ... and when I eventually got here in 2009 the plane was a 747, which told me that maybe CM was now a little bigger than it was all those years ago. I've seen photos of "peak hour" in CM in the 70s, and the road was choked with ... bicycles. Wind the clock on 30 years, and the road was full of motorcycles. Now, it's full of new cars. Ricefields all around CM are being bulldozed for some fairly ghastly housing estates, even as I'm writing these lines. The ever increasing built environment means it's not that cool (temperature wise) a place as it once was. Get here before it becomes unbearable, is my advice.

Somewhere earlier in this thread you asked about swimming pools; the 700 years stadium is out of town but I sometimes enjoy having the whole 50 metre Olympic pool to myself - or, as is more often the case, just sharing with a few others.

The place has a membership deal where you pay B500 for a year, and get in each time for B30. That's half the normal admission, one dollar. There's a basic gym, too, but that is a dollar extra (for members, as I recall).

Other random thoughts:

When you come here, if you want to stay in the one place for a while, you'll find some hotels rent rooms by the month - there's one near where I live, walking distance to the main Chiang Mai University campus, which will rent a clean comfortable air-con room for around $200 for the month, plus utilities (electricity, wifi). By the day, but including utilities, about $20. So renting by the month can make sense.

One thing I would suggest if you're up to it - get yourself a motorcycle licence, if you don't already have one. Even if you don't want to ride a bike, you should at least get an international driver's licence so that you can drive around and be covered by your insurance. Car rental places will often rent you a car (or a motorcycle) but will only worry about the formalities (motorcycle licence/international driving licence) after the accident. Oh, and people drive on the wrong side of the road here, so - like when I drive when I'm in the US - that might take some getting used to.

If you fly directly into CM (possible on Cathay Paciific/Dragonair through Hong Kong/Korean Air through Seoul), arriving here is much better than in Bangkok. Immigration processing time is lightning fast, it's friendly (customs have always waved me through) and you're out in the terminal before you know it.

On my first visit here I go to know the locals by doing a basic Thai massage course (kinda fun), and then by spending a week in a Tao-ist resort outside CM, which was an interesting experience, and much more Thai than it sounds. You don't have to do sightseeing to learn something about aspects of Thai life. Actually, to learn about aspects of Thai life, you only have to ride a motorcycle for more than a minute on any public road, really, but that's a whole other story.

Having said all that ... I agree with everyone, make the trip ...

[onthemoon]

How disgusting to read such trolling responses. Thank you for nothing. Fact is I'm just off the phone with my brother advising me to not tell our dad my plans on our upcoming trip.

I thought I could get some answers here from current expats. I'll see if I can find a better forum. Thank you to the few who answered sincerely. To hell with those who felt like trolling me. Perhaps if I mailed you a few extra baht you could get a happy ending so you don't take your frustrations out strangers who seek information here. You're pathetic.

Respond to this or not. No matter to me. I will not see it.

You have received many sincere replies from current expats. And now you insult us. That makes you the troll.

I am sorry to have tried to give you good advice. As everybody (as in: everybody) said, you need to come here to get a feel. If you refuse to do that, I wonder why you reject our advice.

Troll.

[nongkhai]

Skirting your eerie issues regarding old age and death-in-general (lottsa references, plus this little evidence of capitulation: " ... widows don't plan ... ". Oh please) and what appears to be a much more tight-assed personality than many Thais could bear . . . and just touch on a much more serious 'issue': i.e. getting a visa.

You say you're in your 50's, so that makes you eligible for a 12 month Non Imm Visa (often referred to a as 'Retirement Visa'), but your 48,000 baht monthly income won't cut it ... you'll need to show at least 62,000 a month in income, or money-in-the-bank, or a combination of the two to get that.

So if you can't show that you'll have to be content with 90-day visas wherein you'll have to leave the country and then come back in after receiving an extension. Apparently that is getting more difficult and hoop-heavy as years go by ... as well as expensive (i.e. the trip expenses plus the extension fee of 1900 baht each time).

I see no sign in any of your posts addressing this 'problem' (though I admit to not having read every post in this thread). Have you given any thought to it?

Medical insurance doesn't mean much if you can't get into Thailand.

PS ... Sorry, I have now found a reference to visas, as well as 'working'.

OntheMoon has covered this already . . . so you will need a work visa, which is strictly disallowed with a retirement visa.

Even larger hoops to jump through ...

Edited October 16, 2014 by nongkhai

[thaicurious]

So I wasn't going to bother coming back to this thread after some guy decided to troll me, unprovoked. But then I saw a name I wasn't familiar with so thought I ought to be polite and check. And I'm glad I did. I'll do my best to avert my eyes to anyone who gets off on trolling me. I'm really not into that. Please go find someone else to fight with. I do however see some considerate posts and so wanted to thank those who bothered. Thank you sustento (you can be a little rough though, can't ya?), scott and especially dundas. Dundas your post was particularly lovely and I appreciate it much.

To the presumptuous person who seems to have trouble following a thought or a thread, you are a very rude person and I'll simply comment here but afterwards will not further engage you. You are wrong about my potential visa status. I never said what my income was limited to. I said what I wanted to restrain my budget to. I would have no difficulty getting a retirement visa. As well you are wrong to side with the guy who wanted to troll me though I don't recall what he said about work as that one is already out of my mind. To clarify if need be, though I'm pretty sure I posted this at least twice: I would not require work in Thailand for income. I do however have concern about working to keep life interesting and that is the only regard to which I mentioned work, which might keep me stateside as my understanding is that Thai jobs are for Thai people which makes sense. I don't know yet how I feel about working into my future and will be visiting for a few-month to test run a Thai retirement option.

Aging is not eerie, these are simply facts of it. I've buried partners, so you can take your "oh please" and use what imagination you can muster to figure out what to do with it. That you've a problem with aging and death is no justification for your rudeness towards me. So no thank you for your "advice".

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You've had plenty of answers. The fact that some of them might be unpalatable doesn't alter the fact that in order to decide whether you like somewhere you have to visit it first. If you come for 30 days or less you won't even need to organise a visa.

Edit: You won't find any other forums about Thailand that have a tenth the expertise that's contained on Thaivisa especially as far as gay questions are concerned.

I got some answers here but also some questions seemed ignored. My issue isn't a matter of an answer which might be unpalatable but an answer that was either never offered or one offered more as attitude than as fact. I didn't come here to do battle. Not real into jousting. I purposely left my lance on the corporate desk.

The difficulty is that every question answered raises more questions. It gets to be a little circular in nature.

A lot of your questions can't really be answered. As one posted suggested, you need to make a visit and see if you like the place. Many of your questions will be answered after you have been here. You will have many more questions, but they will likely be a little more focused and thus easier to answer.

I do plan to visit and certainly then I will have a ton more questions. If you feel I've been unfocused, I'd certainly be willing to clarify should you specify. These are questions going through my mind on considering this possible step in life and so these are the questions I've asked. What is unfocused about asking what happens to aged expats in Thailand? Certainly there are not the support systems we have in the states so I think the question is a valid concern. I hope to not have offended by asking.

I agree with everyone - make the trip.

My Thai students advised me many years ago to visit Chiang Mai because "it's a lovely little place in the hills" ... and when I eventually got here in 2009 the plane was a 747, which told me that maybe CM was now a little bigger than it was all those years ago. I've seen photos of "peak hour" in CM in the 70s, and the road was choked with ... bicycles. Wind the clock on 30 years, and the road was full of motorcycles. Now, it's full of new cars. Ricefields all around CM are being bulldozed for some fairly ghastly housing estates, even as I'm writing these lines. The ever increasing built environment means it's not that cool (temperature wise) a place as it once was. Get here before it becomes unbearable, is my advice.

Somewhere earlier in this thread you asked about swimming pools; the 700 years stadium is out of town but I sometimes enjoy having the whole 50 metre Olympic pool to myself - or, as is more often the case, just sharing with a few others.

The place has a membership deal where you pay B500 for a year, and get in each time for B30. That's half the normal admission, one dollar. There's a basic gym, too, but that is a dollar extra (for members, as I recall).

Other random thoughts:

When you come here, if you want to stay in the one place for a while, you'll find some hotels rent rooms by the month - there's one near where I live, walking distance to the main Chiang Mai University campus, which will rent a clean comfortable air-con room for around $200 for the month, plus utilities (electricity, wifi). By the day, but including utilities, about $20. So renting by the month can make sense.

One thing I would suggest if you're up to it - get yourself a motorcycle licence, if you don't already have one. Even if you don't want to ride a bike, you should at least get an international driver's licence so that you can drive around and be covered by your insurance. Car rental places will often rent you a car (or a motorcycle) but will only worry about the formalities (motorcycle licence/international driving licence) after the accident. Oh, and people drive on the wrong side of the road here, so - like when I drive when I'm in the US - that might take some getting used to.

If you fly directly into CM (possible on Cathay Paciific/Dragonair through Hong Kong/Korean Air through Seoul), arriving here is much better than in Bangkok. Immigration processing time is lightning fast, it's friendly (customs have always waved me through) and you're out in the terminal before you know it.

On my first visit here I go to know the locals by doing a basic Thai massage course (kinda fun), and then by spending a week in a Tao-ist resort outside CM, which was an interesting experience, and much more Thai than it sounds. You don't have to do sightseeing to learn something about aspects of Thai life. Actually, to learn about aspects of Thai life, you only have to ride a motorcycle for more than a minute on any public road, really, but that's a whole other story.

Having said all that ... I agree with everyone, make the trip ...

I had already learned of that pool, looks real nice but as you say out of town. And I have to keep in mind that in many aspects I won't have the conveniences I have here. But there are benefits there that I don't have here. And yes, a visit would help me weigh that.

$200 a month is incredible. Maybe I would contact you again as I get closer to deciding what to do if you do not mind. I was thinking of this year but my brother convinced me to do a different trip. I might still be able to squeeze it in while the weather there is nice. I'd like to come for a month minimum, preferably for three months to get a good feel of the place.

I'm not at all concerned about the development there. I'm certain it would still be a complete adventure for me. That aspect is similar to many places. Those living in growing places--and I have and do--saw what growth they did, but newcomers experience it as new. And they will see development from that point forward to reminisce about the good old days to the next generation. The only concern about that would be eventual rising costs but that's happening world wide so I'd imagine relative, over what's left of my life, it should still be a bargain in my later years.

Though of concern with that is how I'd imagine the world will be exporting their elders for care. So that could wind up increasing those costs, but still it would never be as ridiculous as it is in the States. And my big concern with that is having family and friends but not having children to check on me so I wondering if living in a more compassionate Buddhist culture might reduce some suffering and potential abuses of aging stateside.

Edited October 23, 2014 by thaicurious

[robertthebruce]

Give us a break, just come over, see if it's for you and see if you can afford it, if Yes, that's great enjoy life.

If not, try another Asian Country, there is quite a few to,choose from...

I"m surprised you step,outside your door, by the time you Analyis everything...

Be a Devil and life a little....