Looming Disaster

[Gonzo the Face]

Re the preparedness,

I missed the part where they showed what should be done in case of attack by inter-planetary, inter-galactic, Osmlian Alien Invaders. I would like to protect my family from the Cosmo-Gastronic ray guns they use.

[JRingo]

Re the preparedness,

I missed the part where they showed what should be done in case of attack by inter-planetary, inter-galactic, Osmlian Alien Invaders. I would like to protect my family from the Cosmo-Gastronic ray guns they use.

Up to you, forewarned is forearmed.

[Maejo Man]

I've just taken another paranoia pill, and they seem to be working well

[chuchok]

I think they should build houses in Ching Mai out of jelly, then when there is an earthquake they would just wobble

Good thinking! then if you were hungry, you could eat a small part to keep the hunger pangs at bay.What about vodka jelly?

[lamphun]

I think they should build houses in Ching Mai out of jelly, then when there is an earthquake they would just wobble

Good thinking! then if you were hungry, you could eat a small part to keep the hunger pangs at bay.What about vodka jelly?

The addition of alcohol to the jelly would mean you'd have to keep you're house at below zero or it would melt. I'd suggest marzipan as a substitute.

[davidgtr]

JRingo

<deleted> after reading all this wouldn't you be safer sleeping in a bamboo hut somewhere - else; and not in a dangerous earthquake zone like North Thailand?

But then again I suspect that anywhere could be a problem with your perspective. There are so many nasty things, especially a killer earthquake, which could get you in the end that it must be a real worry getting out of bed in the morning. When’s the earthquake going to hit? Are we prepared for it?

As for me I'll stick to riding my motorbike & hope that the end does not come.

Meanwhile floods, bird flu, and terrorist bullets don’t worry me, it’s just the thought of JRingo’s earthquake & the demise of Chiang Mai that scares me......

[ovenman]

Reading this thread, I suddenly find myself wondering whatever happened to good ol' daveyo...?

[meadish_sweetball]

Old Daveyo is probably having a catnap. Shhhhh... he might wake up.

[Donnyboy]

"the sky is falling......the sky is falling"

[naammanow]

Foundation design was a large component of the engineering and cost. My background is geotechnical engineering, and I was not comfortable with seat of the pants spread footings. Concern was liquifaction, differential settlement, and bearing failure. I used 30 x 30 x 10m piles that increased the cost by about 0.5% This is really really cheap and worth the peace of mind.

Secondary concern was shear in the columns and walls. As you say cross bracing is one way to address this. Rebar in the walls is a good idea to prevent them from simply falling down. Quality control on concrete and steel is very important, and in fact I did not know there was "full strength" and Thai quality rebar - my workers were bitching over how difficult real rebar is to bend. Take concrete samples and submit them for testing so that the Contractor will not be tempted to skimp. If using precast floors, check the loading and end connections.

I used several other non-Thai methods that are code in most countries such as vented plumbing stacks and P traps on drains, grounded electrical system, GFI outlets, low E double glazing, insulation. Exterior walls are Cool Block brand polystyrene cored block, with a 50 mm air space between local brick interior walls.

Total cost with the engineering and extras was about 10%. A waste to some, but worth it to me.

Extremely interesting Hog Head, even though all "Chinese"to me. Can you recommend architect or builder that can comply with the specifications mentioned? Can I PM you as I am planning to starrt building end of this year early next year. Information will be truly appreciated. Thanks!

[Hog Head]

I am [email protected]

I used PPSN for the bidding process and construction supervision. They are also able to do the seismic, and structural engineering review. They also handled the entire bidding process, contractor interviews, price analysis, and final price negogations - this alone saved me their fee.

Senior engineer is Khun Somchai

053 217 449

Geotechnical investigation and report was done by Spys Company Ltd.

Engineer Khun Pipitsombat

053 215 763

My architect sub-contracted out the foundation pile design and it left a great deal to be required. I took a look at it, and PPSN reviewed. PPSN can arrange for a geotechnical engineer

General architect work was OK and reasonable. The first guy we went do simply sub-contracted the work out to this guy:

Khun Tui

01 287 2644

I highly recommend my Main Contractor. He is a civil engineer, had the best price, honest to a fault, no hassle over little extras, quality, his own long term trained workers, and does little things not on the BQ to have a quality product.

Not your typical local contractor at all, and in retrospect I did not really need to have PPSN supervise the work, given my background. If you are not very familiar with construction you still should use someone on your side to supervise the work.

Khun Montri

01 881 9851

The entire design and bidding process took almost a year, so plan accordingly.

[Diablo Bob]

Interesting topic ........

Being from California, not really concerned by the sky is falling attitude.

Being an engineer, I find it amazing that as many ways man has tried to make a structure fail, an incredibly low percentage ever fail under even the most extreme stresses.

Without any forethought I actually solved many of the seismic review issues. I had my house designed in California to California Seismic standards. Had the plans in Auto Cad and brought them to a Thai Engineer who converted everything to metric.

As to the QA/QC issues, well I will just start drinking beer a little later in the day and perform my slump tests myself. Who knows, I might get a unit weight bucket and an air meter and start performing cement factor calculations.

[chownah]

Interesting topic ........

Being from California, not really concerned by the sky is falling attitude.

Being an engineer, I find it amazing that as many ways man has tried to make a structure fail, an incredibly low percentage ever fail under even the most extreme stresses.

Without any forethought I actually solved many of the seismic review issues. I had my house designed in California to California Seismic standards. Had the plans in Auto Cad and brought them to a Thai Engineer who converted everything to metric.

As to the QA/QC issues, well I will just start drinking beer a little later in the day and perform my slump tests myself. Who knows, I might get a unit weight bucket and an air meter and start performing cement factor calculations.

Is your design based on 100% of compressive stresses carried by compression steel? Thai reinforced concrete design relies alot more heavily on compression steel for compressive loads because the quality of aggregate is so variable, concrete mix design is almost nonexistent and not reliable, placement is often/usually substandard, and qaulity control is almost non-existant. A good remedy for questionable concrete is design allowing 100% of compressive stress to be carried by compression steel....and its really not that much more expensive.

Another thing to consider doing is adding extras portland cement to the mix to lower the water cement ratio.....the added expense is not too bad on a project the size of a house and well worth the peace of mind....I used both Thai style compression steel AND extra portland cement in the mix.

Chownah

Edited August 9, 2006 by chownah

[JRingo]

Just adding more cement to the mix doesn't necessarily help.

You need about 2,500 psi (pounds per square inch) for concrete post and beams to be sound.

...forget how that calculates into kilos per square centimeters. (ksc)

Some of the problems I encountered up north was that you could "spec" the strength of the

concrete but the tests results were dubious. In fact I asked for some of my own samples to be

tested and the ready mix plant had the test equipment but nobody new how to use it.

I had my warehouse designed to US standards and engineered for California seismic zone

and the plans drawn in the US in metric scale. However, the building department in the north

said the the engineering was considered "high technology" and they didn't understand so

could not approve it, so would have to send to Bangkok.

A few days later and a few drinks later he confessed that he would probably just throw the plans

the plans in the trash and not send to Bangkok at all as it would complicate everyones lives.

He reminded me that I was in Thailand and should do things the Thai way.

What I was proposing was a simple CMU (cement masonry units) building with solid grout

and continuous footings. Very common and very simple and very low tech here in So. Calif.

And also very safe in earthquakes.

For those people thinking of building US style homes in Thailand to US standards...think again.

Even if you could be assured that the concrete is strong enough and even if you could be assured the steel is strong enough and even if you could be assured that it gets placed correctly you still have the very big problem using post and beam construction as the infill walls underneath those

beams is unreinforced masonry and is very heavy and subject to collaspe in moderate earthquakes.

You won't get me to live in one of those death traps.

Granted Chiang Mai is not So. California but the whole area sits on top of fault lines.

[Diablo Bob]

Just adding more cement to the mix doesn't necessarily help.

You need about 2,500 psi (pounds per square inch) for concrete post and beams to be sound.

...forget how that calculates into kilos per square centimeters. (ksc)

Some of the problems I encountered up north was that you could "spec" the strength of the

concrete but the tests results were dubious. In fact I asked for some of my own samples to be

tested and the ready mix plant had the test equipment but nobody new how to use it.

I had my warehouse designed to US standards and engineered for California seismic zone

and the plans drawn in the US in metric scale. However, the building department in the north

said the the engineering was considered "high technology" and they didn't understand so

could not approve it, so would have to send to Bangkok.

A few days later and a few drinks later he confessed that he would probably just throw the plans

the plans in the trash and not send to Bangkok at all as it would complicate everyones lives.

He reminded me that I was in Thailand and should do things the Thai way.

What I was proposing was a simple CMU (cement masonry units) building with solid grout

and continuous footings. Very common and very simple and very low tech here in So. Calif.

And also very safe in earthquakes.

For those people thinking of building US style homes in Thailand to US standards...think again.

Even if you could be assured that the concrete is strong enough and even if you could be assured the steel is strong enough and even if you could be assured that it gets placed correctly you still have the very big problem using post and beam construction as the infill walls underneath those

beams is unreinforced masonry and is very heavy and subject to collaspe in moderate earthquakes.

You won't get me to live in one of those death traps.

Granted Chiang Mai is not So. California but the whole area sits on top of fault lines.

The only "High Tech" innovation on your structure was the use of grouted CMU. I have only seen an 8x8x16 CMU once in Thailand. They don't typically even manufacture them nor use them in construction.

Your foundation system is common.

I don't know where you investigated laboratory testing, but even in Buriram I have found the cylinder molds, air meter and unit weight bucket at a functioning materials laboratory.

For someone in such dire fear of earthquakes, why would you ever consider a CMU structure? You would be better of in a Pre-engineered (Butler Bldg.) Building with sheet cladding.

[chanchao]

> <deleted> after reading all this wouldn't you be safer sleeping

> in a bamboo hut somewhere - else;

What, are you nuts?! Those tend to be in mountain areas, what about mud slides? Fire? We're dddddddooooooooooOOOOOOOMMMMddddddd .d . dd. d. da.

[JRingo]

Just adding more cement to the mix doesn't necessarily help.

You need about 2,500 psi (pounds per square inch) for concrete post and beams to be sound.

...forget how that calculates into kilos per square centimeters. (ksc)

Some of the problems I encountered up north was that you could "spec" the strength of the

concrete but the tests results were dubious. In fact I asked for some of my own samples to be

tested and the ready mix plant had the test equipment but nobody new how to use it.

I had my warehouse designed to US standards and engineered for California seismic zone

and the plans drawn in the US in metric scale. However, the building department in the north

said the the engineering was considered "high technology" and they didn't understand so

could not approve it, so would have to send to Bangkok.

A few days later and a few drinks later he confessed that he would probably just throw the plans

the plans in the trash and not send to Bangkok at all as it would complicate everyones lives.

He reminded me that I was in Thailand and should do things the Thai way.

What I was proposing was a simple CMU (cement masonry units) building with solid grout

and continuous footings. Very common and very simple and very low tech here in So. Calif.

And also very safe in earthquakes.

For those people thinking of building US style homes in Thailand to US standards...think again.

Even if you could be assured that the concrete is strong enough and even if you could be assured the steel is strong enough and even if you could be assured that it gets placed correctly you still have the very big problem using post and beam construction as the infill walls underneath those

beams is unreinforced masonry and is very heavy and subject to collaspe in moderate earthquakes.

You won't get me to live in one of those death traps.

Granted Chiang Mai is not So. California but the whole area sits on top of fault lines.

The only "High Tech" innovation on your structure was the use of grouted CMU. I have only seen an 8x8x16 CMU once in Thailand. They don't typically even manufacture them nor use them in construction.

Your foundation system is common.

I don't know where you investigated laboratory testing, but even in Buriram I have found the cylinder molds, air meter and unit weight bucket at a functioning materials laboratory.

For someone in such dire fear of earthquakes, why would you ever consider a CMU structure? You would be better of in a Pre-engineered (Butler Bldg.) Building with sheet cladding.

I had the 8x8x16 cmu's made for me.

Yes, I have test boxes to make samples and all the Ready Mix plants carry them also,

but in reality up north nobody bothers, it is only a formality they need to appear to follow.

Like I said, any test results from a Ready Mix plant is dubious in my opinion.

You can get accurate testing done at Chiang Mai University (CMU) no pun intended.

But it is really not practical for me as my jobsite is 3 hours away.

Contrary to what I must sound like, I am not in dire fear of earthquakes but I am in dire

fear of being buried under tons of concrete when I know how to prevent it.

I actually looked into Butler type Buildings and made little progress in Chiang mai.

Blue Steel is there but only an office and can't do much of anything for me.

Metal buildings are very hot and not my first choice.

The part of my cmu design that really confuses them is that there are no posts.

And that's all they know about where I am...posts and beams....

[sabaijai]

From sex tourism to AIDS to earthquakes, what's next JRingo?

[Blinky Bill]

From sex tourism to AIDS to earthquakes, what's next JRingo?

Congratulations JRingo. You have just made it to the top of the 80% (maybe 90%) category. If you are in doubt as to what this category is please refer to the threads by Millwall Fan (8th August) and Lamphun (9th August) in the Red Lion and O'Malleys Topic. Ed.Lee is right there next to you.

[chanchao]

> From sex tourism to AIDS to earthquakes, what's next JRingo?

My money is on Bird Flu being next.

Edited August 10, 2006 by chanchao

[Maejo Man]

> From sex tourism to AIDS to earthquakes, what's next JRingo?

My money is on Bird Flu being next.

Nah.....More like rampant terrorism on Thai Airways prior to the new airport opening. He likes controversy

[JRingo]

> From sex tourism to AIDS to earthquakes, what's next JRingo?

My money is on Bird Flu being next.

Nah.....More like rampant terrorism on Thai Airways prior to the new airport opening. He likes controversy

How are earthquakes controversial?

People have developed different opinions from the information they have received

from different places.

I happen to be in construction and know a little bit about this subject.

There is no controversy here, just different opinions, you have yours, I have mine.

Isn’t that the idea behind this forum?

I wish you guys would add something useful or interesting to the topic.

[sriracha john]

Thread: Good Bye

JRingo Posted on: 2006-07-30 18:09:30

Good bye.

What? No "Hello, I'm back" thread???

how disappointing...

Edited August 10, 2006 by sriracha john

[JRingo]

Thread: Good Bye

JRingo Posted on: 2006-07-30 18:09:30

Good bye.

What? No "Hello, I'm back" thread???

how disappointing...

So what you thought I said goodbye forever?

So what you want me to ask your permission to post again?

Ok, sir John, permission to come aboard sir!

[ovenman]

So what you thought I said goodbye forever?

One lives in hope, or as I suppose in your case, one lives in the Central Valley. Whassup, having another heat wave in scenic Lodi?

[sriracha john]

Thread: Good Bye

JRingo Posted on: 2006-07-30 18:09:30

Good bye.

What? No "Hello, I'm back" thread???

how disappointing...

So what you thought I said goodbye forever?

So what you want me to ask your permission to post again?

Ok, sir John, permission to come aboard sir!

Well, to preserve the sanctity of this ship and prevent a probable mutiny amongst its crew if you come onboard, I really have no other option but to say:

Permission Denied

[JRingo]

Thread: Good Bye

JRingo Posted on: 2006-07-30 18:09:30

Good bye.

What? No "Hello, I'm back" thread???

how disappointing...

So what you thought I said goodbye forever?

So what you want me to ask your permission to post again?

Ok, sir John, permission to come aboard sir!

Well, to preserve the sanctity of this ship and prevent a probable mutiny amongst its crew if you come onboard, I really have no other option but to say:

Permission Denied

Well that's what I get for asking. haha

Thanks for the warm welcome back, I'm sure more of my fan club will follow.

[chanchao]

It seems the earthquake discussion has run it's course. You will all have to agree to disagree.