Koh Tao Murders: Thai Authorities Deny 'Scapegoat' Allegation

[ParadiseLost]

I read reports that thai police have been known to force suspects to supply semen samples, as in if accused won't w**k in a cup, they will forcibly do it!

What - they suck it out?

Actually now I think of it - not so unbelievable...

[jacky54]

There have been no reports of DNA under the nails of the victim.

But did they look?

[cowboy country]

Oh the irony!!

For the last couple of weeks the hang-them-high-brigade has been out in full force here on Thaivisa.

Now the police has "solved" the case and the very same posters come out in full force to defend the alleged culprits.

I am not saying, that the police has got it right, actually I doubt it very much, BUT IF. THat would be quite ironic, wouldn't it?

only if they provide DNA tests for the family, both sons, not just for the deceased pair, but also for to lady raped 2 years before, you know where the Son had 12 stitches in his foot jumping out the window as a perp...if they provide DNA I'll go away, in the meantime focus is on the mongrels!!!!

Please can you direct me towards the source/s of this story of the son being allegedly involved in a prior violent incident?newspaper?place?something i can search on google.

Thanks.Interesting indeed.

It's on the Thai social sites..my wife has been translating it, will try to find some links if you can read thai, I can't..she's not home at the moment.

[taony]

Apparently, classmates of the kid in Bangkok who is every social media persons suspect #1, went to school with scratches on his neck and arms:

จาก CSI ม กรุงเทพ

เพื่อนของรุ่นน้องแฟนผม" เรียน ม.กรุงเทพ นส มาเรียนวันที่ 16 เขาอ้างว่า นส มีแผลข่วนที่คอและแขนครับ

From CSI BKK University:

My girlfriend's friend is studying at Bangkok University. The suspect came to school on Sept 16th. She saw that he had scratch marks on his neck and arms.

Which is exactly why many of us suspected that he waited a week to come out with his new hair cut and CCTV "evidence". He needed some time for the scratches to heal or at least become less apparent.

[cowboy country]

Csi latest post, the video from Nation news is now saying the village chiefs son was seen leaving the island around 30 minutes after the murders are supposed to have taken place. I think the problem is everyone knows who done it but they are all petrified in coming forward.

I noticed the unidentified figure in the far left of frame in the video of the suspect in the middle of the night, presumably after the murders, seems to be wearing some sort of back pack.The sort of thing one carries when you're on your way somewhere, no?

Could it be that is the same someone who is hastily heading towards a private speedboat to nip over to koh samui for the first flight of the day?

Could it be the burmese suspect was enrolled to assist with this getaway?

CSI are also putting out a request for passenger lists from the airline for that morning.

Good, I suggested over a week ago someone get the cctv from the Airports...

I bet they've magically vanished as well..

[cowboy country]

It's funny how all the usual suspects rant and rave on here and hit the like button for each other for their brilliant posting but when it comes to parting with a bit of money to fight what they think is a setup by the police and these guys are innocent suddenly it's only one like or dead silence.

Well I'd hate to be in a foxhole with you guys.

Or maybe I'm wrong and you guys have woken up to the that a fool and his money are soon parted.

Come guys throw in a couple of thousand dollars not baht and get these poor innocent victims the best lawyer money can buy.

No ?

Didn't think so!

I'll throw in some money to have the sons and familt DNA tested,

wouldn't that be the most simple way for the family to prove they are innocent???

No they offer a reward to anyone who can find them guilty...heartless dogs..

What hurts more the loss of face or the loss of money,

if the family want that face and money back, take a DNA test, with UK officials...no more cover ups.

[cowboy country]

It's funny how all the usual suspects rant and rave on here and hit the like button for each other for their brilliant posting but when it comes to parting with a bit of money to fight what they think is a setup by the police and these guys are innocent suddenly it's only one like or dead silence.

Well I'd hate to be in a foxhole with you guys.

Or maybe I'm wrong and you guys have woken up to the that a fool and his money are soon parted.

Come guys throw in a couple of thousand dollars not baht and get these poor innocent victims the best lawyer money can buy.

No ?

Didn't think so!

I'll throw in some money to have the sons and family DNA tested,

wouldn't that be the most simple way for the family to prove they are innocent???

No they offer a reward to anyone who can find them guilty...heartless dogs..

What hurts more the loss of face or the loss of money,

if the family want that face and money back, take a DNA test, with UK officials...no more cover ups.

[draftvader]

OK. This is "out there". I've been thinking a few loose ends (and there are many more than "a few", I know!) out over the past few days. My mind keeps coming back to Sean McAnna, 3 men's semen and the 2 stooges chasing him. Now Sean has not been heard of in 2.5 weeks. Discounting the, seemingly, unidentified body floating off a nearby island I started to wonder as to whether there is another version of events that includes the 3 of them?

Sean, Son and Brother. Could it be that they did this together? Could it be that Sean was involved in the rape and killing but then started to break down in front of them causing them to worry that he was about to leave and spill the beans by trying to pin it on the other 2 alone? We know he had been "working" in the bars on the island "busking" (as it was put in one report) so probably had these 2 in his "social" circles. I don't want to cast aspersions however it is a little weird that we have heard nothing from Sean since a few days after the event. Surely by now he would have surfaced somewhere safe (i.e. the UK) and shared his story?

I really don't know if I can make much sense out of this evidence and I realise it could point every other way. I just wanted to share another theory...even if it is one that creates as many questions as it tries to answer.

For the debate, I guess?!

[transam]

Bit off topic and I can't find the photo.... ....There was a photo of a guy with loads of rifle hardware, who was that guy ?

Was the photo taken on KT ?, has he permits for all that shit ?, where did the arms come from ?, if on KT, holiday folk will be unaware that this guy has an arsenal close bye.

[ParadiseLost]

OK. This is "out there". I've been thinking a few loose ends (and there are many more than "a few", I know!) out over the past few days. My mind keeps coming back to Sean McAnna, 3 men's semen and the 2 stooges chasing him. Now Sean has not been heard of in 2.5 weeks. Discounting the, seemingly, unidentified body floating off a nearby island I started to wonder as to whether there is another version of events that includes the 3 of them?

Sean, Son and Brother. Could it be that they did this together? Could it be that Sean was involved in the rape and killing but then started to break down in front of them causing them to worry that he was about to leave and spill the beans by trying to pin it on the other 2 alone? We know he had been "working" in the bars on the island "busking" (as it was put in one report) so probably had these 2 in his "social" circles. I don't want to cast aspersions however it is a little weird that we have heard nothing from Sean since a few days after the event. Surely by now he would have surfaced somewhere safe (i.e. the UK) and shared his story?

I really don't know if I can make much sense out of this evidence and I realise it could point every other way. I just wanted to share another theory...even if it is one that creates as many questions as it tries to answer.

For the debate, I guess?!

At the moment nothing seems implausible. I can go along with Sean being an 'insider' with these guys, but in all honesty I don't think this was planned at all.

I believe Sean was there and almost got killed and he ran for his life - the puncture wounds are identical to ones on David. Furthermore I suspect date-rape drugs may have been slipped to the victim(s), possibly Sean. Mushrooms also come to mind.

If David's mind cleared a little too quickly, he may have caught someone doing something to Hanna. The rest is too sad to imagine.

The most telling thing for me was a quote from Sean's FB page springing to his friend's defense: "David tried to save her". Apologies if that is not a fact, or I misquote but that is how I remember it.

Niggling thing though - how did he survive on that little island for a week - surely these guys would have hunted him down?

The main thing is Sean's testimony, whether he implicates himself or not.

[Dogmatix]

As the plaudits over for 'perfect job' done by police investigators as described by Prayuth and the police's exemplary professionalism in solving the case, as praised by British ambassador, Mark Kent keep rolling in, let's sum up where we are in the case.

Pol Gen Somyos said that the arrest of the two suspects namely Win and So Lin, both 21, was attributable to five reasons:

1) an eyewitness, a Myanmar migrant worker who implicated them;

2) their DNA samples match with the DNA found in the body of one of the tourists;

3) video footage showing the two suspects;

4) a smartphone of one of the victims found in the possession of the suspects;

5) and the confession of the suspects in the presence of their lawyers.

No. 1 seems to have just gone as the eyewitness, Maung Maung, who claims to have been beaten by police into testifying against his friends, has now says he didn't witness anything and doesn't believe his friends did it as they woke up the next day completely unmarked as if nothing had happened. That leaves 4 reasons.

No 3 the video looks quite inconclusive. Even if the man in the clips is one of the suspects, it is only circumstantial evidence and doesn't preclude the possibility that other killers could have gone to and from the crime scene without passing the security camera.

No 4, the smart phone. Police have offered conflicting information about this. First David's iphone was found intact and listed as part of the deceased personal, as shown in TV. Then the police chief said that Hannah's iphone was found smashed up near the Burmese hut but news vids showed it in the police station. Finally David's iphone was said to have been given by one of the supects to an unnamed friend, who smashed it up and left in a plastic bag near his friends' hut. This piece of evidence seems shaky and may be demolished soon.

No 5 the confession of the suspects in the presence of their lawyers. It seems that what he meant was the subsequent reiteration of their confession verbally in front of a Burmese and a Thai lawyer and Burmese embassy officials in the Samui court building. There has been no suggestion that any lawyers were present during the interrogation and confessions on Koh Tao or indeed that the suspects had appointed lawyers prior to giving power of attorney to the lawyers that the Burmese embassy brought to see them in Samui. If there is reasonable doubt that their confessions were extracted were extracted under torture, they would inadmissible in a Western court but are probably still OK in Thailand, if not retracted by the suspects. Given all the above the suspects lawyers must surely urge them strongly to retract the confessions.

That will leave reason no. 2 DNA. So far the DNA testing looks to have been rather patchy. The two suspect's DNA was tested earlier without a match. No DNA has been taken from inside the condom that had Hannah's DNA on the outside and a police spokesman said it might have been 'cleaned out'. The suspects DNA has been found on cigarette butts found where they were drinking and playing guitar but not on cigarettes found at the scene. David's DNA was not found on the hoe which was alleged to have been the murder weapon used on him in the confessions, not to mention the fact that his wounds looked inconsistent with the use of the hoe. No DNA samples have been taken from a Thai man who witnesses said was seen to leave the island on a speed boat shortly after the killings for fear of impinging on his human rights, despite the hundreds of Burmese forced to line up for involuntary testing. Would the DNA evidence stand up to verification from an overseas government authority?

Then there were none.

[traveller 2020]

OK. This is "out there". I've been thinking a few loose ends (and there are many more than "a few", I know!) out over the past few days. My mind keeps coming back to Sean McAnna, 3 men's semen and the 2 stooges chasing him. Now Sean has not been heard of in 2.5 weeks. Discounting the, seemingly, unidentified body floating off a nearby island I started to wonder as to whether there is another version of events that includes the 3 of them?

Sean, Son and Brother. Could it be that they did this together? Could it be that Sean was involved in the rape and killing but then started to break down in front of them causing them to worry that he was about to leave and spill the beans by trying to pin it on the other 2 alone? We know he had been "working" in the bars on the island "busking" (as it was put in one report) so probably had these 2 in his "social" circles. I don't want to cast aspersions however it is a little weird that we have heard nothing from Sean since a few days after the event. Surely by now he would have surfaced somewhere safe (i.e. the UK) and shared his story?

I really don't know if I can make much sense out of this evidence and I realise it could point every other way. I just wanted to share another theory...even if it is one that creates as many questions as it tries to answer.

For the debate, I guess?!

Absolutely spot on the money !

u have it worked out ..................... why has he disappeared with no word find him and you have all the answers

[littlebw]

he went to Italy where he will be lying low

if he was missing dont you think is family would be all over face book etc

if i was Sean I would do exactly the same after giving a statement to UK police

[BuckBee]

As the plaudits over for 'perfect job' done by police investigators as described by Prayuth and the police's exemplary professionalism in solving the case, as praised by British ambassador, Mark Kent keep rolling in, let's sum up where we are in the case.

Pol Gen Somyos said that the arrest of the two suspects namely Win and So Lin, both 21, was attributable to five reasons:

1) an eyewitness, a Myanmar migrant worker who implicated them;

2) their DNA samples match with the DNA found in the body of one of the tourists;

3) video footage showing the two suspects;

4) a smartphone of one of the victims found in the possession of the suspects;

5) and the confession of the suspects in the presence of their lawyers.

No. 1 seems to have just gone as the eyewitness, Maung Maung, who claims to have been beaten by police into testifying against his friends, has now says he didn't witness anything and doesn't believe his friends did it as they woke up the next day completely unmarked as if nothing had happened. That leaves 4 reasons.

No 3 the video looks quite inconclusive. Even if the man in the clips is one of the suspects, it is only circumstantial evidence and doesn't preclude the possibility that other killers could have gone to and from the crime scene without passing the security camera.

No 4, the smart phone. Police have offered conflicting information about this. First David's iphone was found intact and listed as part of the deceased personal, as shown in TV. Then the police chief said that Hannah's iphone was found smashed up near the Burmese hut but news vids showed it in the police station. Finally David's iphone was said to have been given by one of the supects to an unnamed friend, who smashed it up and left in a plastic bag near his friends' hut. This piece of evidence seems shaky and may be demolished soon.

No 5 the confession of the suspects in the presence of their lawyers. It seems that what he meant was the subsequent reiteration of their confession verbally in front of a Burmese and a Thai lawyer and Burmese embassy officials in the Samui court building. There has been no suggestion that any lawyers were present during the interrogation and confessions on Koh Tao or indeed that the suspects had appointed lawyers prior to giving power of attorney to the lawyers that the Burmese embassy brought to see them in Samui. If there is reasonable doubt that their confessions were extracted were extracted under torture, they would inadmissible in a Western court but are probably still OK in Thailand, if not retracted by the suspects. Given all the above the suspects lawyers must surely urge them strongly to retract the confessions.

That will leave reason no. 2 DNA. So far the DNA testing looks to have been rather patchy. The two suspect's DNA was tested earlier without a match. No DNA has been taken from inside the condom that had Hannah's DNA on the outside and a police spokesman said it might have been 'cleaned out'. The suspects DNA has been found on cigarette butts found where they were drinking and playing guitar but not on cigarettes found at the scene. David's DNA was not found on the hoe which was alleged to have been the murder weapon used on him in the confessions, not to mention the fact that his wounds looked inconsistent with the use of the hoe. No DNA samples have been taken from a Thai man who witnesses said was seen to leave the island on a speed boat shortly after the killings for fear of impinging on his human rights, despite the hundreds of Burmese forced to line up for involuntary testing. Would the DNA evidence stand up to verification from an overseas government authority?

Then there were none.

+1 on these points.

The smashed iphone & maung maung not be a witness being the latest hash :-S

With all the lines of investigation that should of been followed but avoided for on excuse or the other leaves no doubt that we are a long long way from knowing the truth but we all have a good idea of what probably happened ...

[SteveFong]

Mark Kent, is now quietly "involved"

the momentum has changed significantly

[draftvader]

Mark Kent, is now quietly "involved"

the momentum has changed significantly

Shaking hands with Andy Hall too. Wonder whether this is an instruction received from the FCO based off the campaign?

http://www.change.org/p/the-government-of-the-united-kingdom-independently-investigate-the-horrific-murders-of-hannah-witheridge-and-david-miller?lang=en-GB

[metisdead]

A post in violation of fair use policy has been removed.

[Oziex1]

I follow the same speculation as others here this Sean character was in with the in crowd on Ko Tao and up to all sorts of no good like drug dealing, somewhere in this incident he fell from favour and did a runner. Where is he now?

Why was he threatened and not just eliminated? Did they think this would blow over and be back to business as usual with Sean as a valuable go between. A cool easy going guy who has connections to get you what you want, no trouble to you.

If they thought it would just blow over quickly, is it because that's what happened before?

Do authorities in the UK have him? Has he blown the whistle on the going ons on the Island?

Is he still alive?

[SteveFong]

Sean, was in this up to his eyeballs, and you can bet, he is reading every one of these posts, aren't you Sean?

I know, that you know, that everyone knows, you set this up.

You just didn't know, your "friend" David, wasn't like you, and, he "did" care,

and now he is dead.

In many countries Sean, you would get the gas chamber for this,

lucky for you, your friends let you slide, until you got shaky

what happened? was the heat getting to you?

did you get strung out, because the killers didnt want to supply you while 100 cops were running around?

did you look "suspicious?"

well Sean,

you do.

Go to the police, and talk

Edited October 9, 2014 by SteveFong

[SteveFong]

I believe Sean reads these threads, and he is eating himself up from the inside on this

I believe he set it up,

I believe he didn't know David would stand up for the girl and "try to save her" just like you said, right Sean?

Accessory to murder is a serious crime,

but not when you come forward, and tell what you know,

you cannot be prosecuted for being a drug dealer unless you are observed or filmed, selling the dope,

Exctasy, right Sean?

that acts like truth serum, and you told the truth,

until you ran

[Johnsen]

SteveFong what are you suggesting. No need to b so criptic. Set what up.. The rape which turned to murder. R u suggesting that David was going to join in but changed his mind. Sounds like you know plenty and that u think all will soon b revealed. Are u suggesting Sean was let go if he promised not to speak about Mon and co... Reckon we are starting to get a much clearer picture. Did Sean rape this girl also thinking the island would b able to cover it up. No doubt he is guilty of something but what exactly.

[Johnsen]

It has been suggested elsewhere that Sean led Hanna to the beach so Mon and co could have their way. Did David see this or hear her screams and try to protect her only to lose his life in the process. R u saying that Sean was willingly going to watch her get raped and killed only to have David intervene. If any of that is true who r these people who let Sean go. Did they pay him to stay quiet. Sounds like its time to turn the heat right up on Sean.

[draftvader]

I don't know how Sean might have been involved but every day that passes without hearing from him makes me think he's dead or guilty (or both). Did anybody clear up who the dead body was off Koh Samet and did anybody verify which Samet that was?

[SteveFong]

SteveFong what are you suggesting. No need to b so criptic. Set what up.. The rape which turned to murder. R u suggesting that David was going to join in but changed his mind. Sounds like you know plenty and that u think all will soon b revealed. Are u suggesting Sean was let go if he promised not to speak about Mon and co... Reckon we are starting to get a much clearer picture. Did Sean rape this girl also thinking the island would b able to cover it up. No doubt he is guilty of something but what exactly.

David was dead before they raped her,

then they had no choice, they had to kill her too,

she was likely raped by 3-5, or more

[Johnsen]

OK, 3-5 guys would make more sense. That's probably y every family is covering for the other. Normally it doesn't take much for a Thai to hang another Thai.

[phuketandsee]

Mark Kent, is now quietly "involved"

the momentum has changed significantly

BP reporting that Kent was going to attend Pomyot's press conference on Tuesday then backed out. Something definitely has changed and now Amnesty International showing an interest. This is going to get BIG.

[Suriya4]

I thought the English boy was raped as well?

Where are the semen DNA test?

[phuketandsee]

And Daily Telegraph reporting "Foreign Office officials, who initially offered support to Thai police, now say they are "concerned" about the alleged mistreatment of the accused men." Getting bigger

Edited October 9, 2014 by phuketandsee

[DennisF]

And Daily Telegraph reporting "Foreign Office officials, who initially offered support to Thai police, now say they are "concerned" about the alleged mistreatment of the accused men." Getting bigger

Surprisingly, the momentum is picking up rather than slowing down internationally.

This is a first as far as I can remember.

It is indeed becoming huge with no boltholes in sight.

Very interesting

[phuketandsee]

More from the Telegraph:

"Two migrant workers accused murdering two British tourists were reported to have retracted their confessions, as Thai prosecutors rejected a police report into the killings claiming it lacked "crucial information" and a leading forensic expert said the investigation "contradicted the principles of forensic science"".

“A case of two murdered people certainly needs a forensic physician,” Khunying Porntip Rojanasunan, head of Thailand’s Central Institute of Forensic Science, was quoted as saying by the Bangkok Post. The police’s actions “contradicted the principles of forensic science,” the expert claimed".

"Meanwhile, prosecutors in Surat Thani province, where the murders took place, reportedly rejected the police's investigation, telling officials they needed to "fix certain flaws" and supply "more crucial information", according to a report in Thailand's The Nation newspaper".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11150569/Thai-murder-suspects-retract-confessions.html

RTP case falling apart rapidly now.