Police clarify Koh Tao victim's cellphone 'planting'

[johnnytuc]

Most Thais I have talked too are not aware of the case???

[7Heaven]

So it was Davids phone, can we move on please

would have been easy if not for the police earlier said they had David's phone and that they are a video from 15sept that show them with that phone.

[seahorse]

So it was Davids phone, can we move on please

The police had David's phone from day 1.

Police also found a pair of Mr Ware's blood-stained pants in Miller's luggage and an Apple iPhone with long blonde hairs snagged on it.

BP 17th September.

[Number 3]

Does logical and provable explanations mean anything to the conspiracy nuts? This is what it all started with a phone that police not only allowed the press to take pictures of in the first day of the investigations and stated they had but one they passed off to the family weeks ago and witnessed by UK Embassy people. Yea, it makes the conspiracy goes all the way to the UK where they stole the phone back and planted it at the suspects location last week and just forgot the press and UK authorities and parents knew they returned her phone.

Well this is what started all the conspiracy talk on Facebook. So, it clearly will be hard to drop for some but others will talk about missing video that makes no sense either. The police release video of a suspect go and coming from around the crime scene in hopes of getting the suspect identified but now they claim their is missing video and they want to know who is in those frames. Yet there is not 2-minutes missing there is many many many hours missing. The police release what they wanted to achieve what the wanted from the public and that is identifying the one person in the video coming and going.

All this because folks wanted it to be a rich Thai and because they mistrust the police. Wake up folks, even a liar sometimes tells the truth and the case they are turning over to the courts for their lawyers to defend looks pretty open and shut. Witnesses (including their friends), video, physical evidence at their place, confessions and DNA. And this is just what has come out as none of us has seen police reports or autopsy reports ... but lets no let the Facebook forensic team tell us the cause of death, murder weapon and sequence of blows and if the person was left or right handed and if the injuries were before or after death by using low res images they don't know the exact timing of when they were taken or what may have changed such as blood being wiped away inadvertently or on purpose. How stupid they even do autopsies or go out to crime scenes when a simple photo can tell a laymen so much.

We will all surely hear if they tell their lawyers they are innocent and were forced to confess and reenact the crime ... as well, lawyers will certainly retest their DNA if they have any doubt.

But why talk logic with folks who simply want to believe things like Elvis is still alive ... well actually that has more probability.

Yah....Okay john....

BLAH...BLAH...BLAH...

Oh were saying something?

John have some dignity. Moving on to another topic is far more useful than trolling.

I see the points you are attempting to make and you have tried to make them in tortuously lengthy essays.

Give us the abridged version and move it along.

Mate, can I suggest bullet points ?

[airconsult]

Ah John,

So good to hear from you again.

Just one thing-it did not start with the phone issue.That was just one on a list of inconsistencies that many were already confused about and concerned by.

Oooh look, here's one big glaring one right now:-

Here is today's interview of a policeman and a police pathologist by Sorayud on Channel 3 where a police pathologist definitively confirms the presence of an as yet unidentified third suspect's DNA on Hannah's body.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZ_1WfVs7RY

"The pathologist said that DNA of B and a third person C was found on Hannah's nipples. The third person was not David. The policeman didn't explain who the police thought C was or how he came to deposit his DNA on Hannah's nipples."

(info originally shared by Dogmatix on #265 on http://www.thaivisa....spects/page-11)

All guilty should be found and brought to justice. The two should not take all the fall for an absent third . Noone who values justice can disagree with that, not even you I imagine.

Actually he did explain. He said DNA from person A + B were found on the cigarette butt and DNA from Hannah was found from person B + C..

At first this confused me as from memory I was thinking of the markers they placed on the 3 suspects on the motorbike. After taking another look what he says is understandable that DNA from only 2 people was taken from Hannah.

I watched the whole interview and it has to be said the way he explains the evidence and the way it was collected has convinced me some that these could be the murderers.

The pathologist also explained the scarring to David very well.

It's a pity really - but there will always be doubts - even with DNA matching.

Here's a link to an Aust Law Reform Commission publication on the reliability of DNA evidence. It notes mistakes in process, handling, interpretation, accidents and even one suspected outright fraud in Aust, NZ, USA and the UK.

While I don't expect the RTP to release details of the results (such as number of loci matched) we can hope that it is thoroughly argued in court.

(the loci match accident in the UK where at 6 loci it matched perfectly (one in 37 million) but not at 10 loci - is a perfect example)

http://www.alrc.gov.au/publications/44-criminal-proceedings/reliability-dna-evidence

Edited October 7, 2014 by airconsult

[Number 3]

So it was Davids phone, can we move on please

The police had David's phone from day 1.

Police also found a pair of Mr Ware's blood-stained pants in Miller's luggage and an Apple iPhone with long blonde hairs snagged on it.

BP 17th September.

All true and verifiable points. Please stop using these as they are getting in the way of a perfectly good police smokescreen.

Again I request the missing two minutes of CCTV footage that will show two people yet to be tested.

Suggest we do not lose sight of this request either tv posters.

[Anthony5]

Does logical and provable explanations mean anything to the conspiracy nuts? This is what it all started with a phone that police not only allowed the press to take pictures of in the first day of the investigations and stated they had but one they passed off to the family weeks ago and witnessed by UK Embassy people. Yea, it makes the conspiracy goes all the way to the UK where they stole the phone back and planted it at the suspects location last week and just forgot the press and UK authorities and parents knew they returned her phone.

Well this is what started all the conspiracy talk on Facebook. So, it clearly will be hard to drop for some but others will talk about missing video that makes no sense either. The police release video of a suspect go and coming from around the crime scene in hopes of getting the suspect identified but now they claim their is missing video and they want to know who is in those frames. Yet there is not 2-minutes missing there is many many many hours missing. The police release what they wanted to achieve what the wanted from the public and that is identifying the one person in the video coming and going.

All this because folks wanted it to be a rich Thai and because they mistrust the police. Wake up folks, even a liar sometimes tells the truth and the case they are turning over to the courts for their lawyers to defend looks pretty open and shut. Witnesses (including their friends), video, physical evidence at their place, confessions and DNA. And this is just what has come out as none of us has seen police reports or autopsy reports ... but lets no let the Facebook forensic team tell us the cause of death, murder weapon and sequence of blows and if the person was left or right handed and if the injuries were before or after death by using low res images they don't know the exact timing of when they were taken or what may have changed such as blood being wiped away inadvertently or on purpose. How stupid they even do autopsies or go out to crime scenes when a simple photo can tell a laymen so much.

We will all surely hear if they tell their lawyers they are innocent and were forced to confess and reenact the crime ... as well, lawyers will certainly retest their DNA if they have any doubt.

But why talk logic with folks who simply want to believe things like Elvis is still alive ... well actually that has more probability.

Yah....Okay john....

BLAH...BLAH...BLAH...

Oh were saying something?

John have some dignity. Moving on to another topic is far more useful than trolling.

I see the points you are attempting to make and you have tried to make them in tortuously lengthy essays.

Give us the abridged version and move it along.

Mate, can I suggest bullet points ?

And there was me thinking that every human was entitled to his own opinion.

Silly me, clearly not the case on Thaivisa forum then.

[CapeThai]

It's quite simple really..... It's not over until the fat lady sang !!

The more the truth comes out..... the more BS they come up with.... the deeper their digging their own crave.... Get real LOS....stop the BS, expose the Hi-So responsible and restore your International Face you already lost !!

There is NO WAY OUT of this one......... Suck it UP, Save what there is left to save and let time do the rest.....

What on earth is' digging your own crave?' George and the mods should really start a new forum for posts like the above, he says nothing at all, throws in a few capital letters and full stops, and a few trendy phrases- 'get real' ' suck it up' Perhaps the forum could be called something like: 'Baloney and bunkum, drivel and doubletalk'

Oh Please bannork.......!! What are you on about ? Trolling around TV looking for someone to victimise ?

Always wanted to be a copper hey bannork ?

[arthurwait]

Well im convinced.

Im offnow to feed the faries at the bottom of my garden.

[stat088]

It's interesting that the majority of Thai's i have talked with seem to believe Win and Saw are scapegoats.

They all believe the village headman's family is involved.

Now that is what I call a credible statement.

I assume you have talked with +35 Million Thais then ?

I don't think it's meant to be a credible statement but an observation as i too have found that as you too will see from Thai forums if you take a look. _ I think it's near 68 Million Thai's so lets not split hairs.

Yes just an observation. I hope they have the right guys. There are alot of people on this forum who believe or suspect that Win and Saw are Scapegoats and have been criticized for their opinions but it appears that alot of Thai's think the same way.

Again, just my personal observation.

[arthurwait]

It's interesting that the majority of Thai's i have talked with seem to believe Win and Saw are scapegoats.

They all believe the village headman's family is involved.

Now that is what I call a credible statement.

I assume you have talked with +35 Million Thais then ?

What part of 'i have talked to' dont you understand ?

[Strangebrew]

To the police if your story is in fact a fact show the world you got the right people allow Outside police from the UK to see all you got on them and let them retest the DNA. Simple it would show that the police are correct. It would make the case stronger Then you would be getting praises instead of people questioning you. But unless you are hiding the truth then refuse outsiders from checking either way the world will see the truth. Actually your between a rock and a hard place now Ball is in your court.

[Joe Black]

Well I keep being reminded on this forum that the Thais don't believe the police's version of events , I read on here that all the Thais on koh Tao know who is responsible for the murders .

I'm told a Thai FB page has over 200k likes yet not one Thai ( and don't say krengjai ) as there are a multitude of ways to get anonymous information out there..

Everybody has friends and everybody talks..even boast at times but hey..not a peep.

Yet not one of these non believing , informative Thais has provided one shred of information to assist ?.

[Soutpeel]

Does logical and provable explanations mean anything to the conspiracy nuts? This is what it all started with a phone that police not only allowed the press to take pictures of in the first day of the investigations and stated they had but one they passed off to the family weeks ago and witnessed by UK Embassy people. Yea, it makes the conspiracy goes all the way to the UK where they stole the phone back and planted it at the suspects location last week and just forgot the press and UK authorities and parents knew they returned her phone.

Well this is what started all the conspiracy talk on Facebook. So, it clearly will be hard to drop for some but others will talk about missing video that makes no sense either. The police release video of a suspect go and coming from around the crime scene in hopes of getting the suspect identified but now they claim their is missing video and they want to know who is in those frames. Yet there is not 2-minutes missing there is many many many hours missing. The police release what they wanted to achieve what the wanted from the public and that is identifying the one person in the video coming and going.

All this because folks wanted it to be a rich Thai and because they mistrust the police. Wake up folks, even a liar sometimes tells the truth and the case they are turning over to the courts for their lawyers to defend looks pretty open and shut. Witnesses (including their friends), video, physical evidence at their place, confessions and DNA. And this is just what has come out as none of us has seen police reports or autopsy reports ... but lets no let the Facebook forensic team tell us the cause of death, murder weapon and sequence of blows and if the person was left or right handed and if the injuries were before or after death by using low res images they don't know the exact timing of when they were taken or what may have changed such as blood being wiped away inadvertently or on purpose. How stupid they even do autopsies or go out to crime scenes when a simple photo can tell a laymen so much.

We will all surely hear if they tell their lawyers they are innocent and were forced to confess and reenact the crime ... as well, lawyers will certainly retest their DNA if they have any doubt.

But why talk logic with folks who simply want to believe things like Elvis is still alive ... well actually that has more probability.

Yah....Okay john....

BLAH...BLAH...BLAH...

Oh were saying something?

John have some dignity. Moving on to another topic is far more useful than trolling.

I see the points you are attempting to make and you have tried to make them in tortuously lengthy essays.

Give us the abridged version and move it along.

Mate, can I suggest bullet points ?

And there was me thinking that every human was entitled to his own opinion.

Silly me, clearly not the case on Thaivisa forum then.

hold on mo, correct me If I am wrong, are you not the poster who claimed to be leading this investigation and a member of the RTP, and started making veiled threats about people making comments on this investigation not 24 hours ago ?

[ScotBkk]

It's interesting that the majority of Thai's i have talked with seem to believe Win and Saw are scapegoats.

They all believe the village headman's family is involved.

Now that is what I call a credible statement.

I assume you have talked with +35 Million Thais then ?

Thats around 50%...... so what side of this percentage are you ??

Edited October 7, 2014 by ScotBkk

[HUAHIN62]

Clear as mud, but please answer all the questions thats been asked on the internet, like before the arrest of the suspects police confirmed that all the workers at AC bar DNA was tested and was cleared, only later to arrest a man who was cleared before and then claim his DNA match that that was found on the victim etc etc.

[Anthony5]

hold on mo, correct me If I am wrong, are you not the poster who claimed to be leading this investigation and a member of the RTP, and started making veiled threats about people making comments on this investigation not 24 hours ago ?

Hold on mo, aren't you one of the conspiracy theorists who claim they can do everything better than the police.

I'm surprised you don't mention Gerbils in your post, as that is as far as your brain reaches.

[outsider]

Third world.

You're being very nice about it...

[Soutpeel]

hold on mo, correct me If I am wrong, are you not the poster who claimed to be leading this investigation and a member of the RTP, and started making veiled threats about people making comments on this investigation not 24 hours ago ?

Hold on mo, aren't you one of the conspiracy theorists who claim they can do everything better than the police.

I'm surprised you don't mention Gerbils in your post, as that is as far as your brain reaches.

Well if you have been smart enough to read any of my posts on this topic, you will see I have not posted any conspiracy theories on this case at all, actually for once I have been rather quite on this subject, other than the occasional piss take post of the resident CSI'er's on TV.

With that established, I do believe the BiB have stitched up these Burmese guys, but at the same time not getting involved with the tin foil type posts that have been/are being made.

Further although I enjoy throwing a Gerbil into mix on occasion, I feel this is the sort of topic where references to Gerbils and Richard Gere will not go down very well.

So now that I have responded to your attempt to evade may previous remark.

ARE you the poster who claimed to work for the RTP and was leading this investigation and threatened people on TV not 24 hours ago ?

A simple Yes or No will suffice, not need for rhetoric or and trolling type comments

YES or NO

By all means report me to your superiors for questioning the moral integrity of the RTP

If answer is NO...please refer to "Pub forum" under the TV slang definitions thread there is on there just for you under the definition of a "Walt"

Edited October 7, 2014 by Soutpeel

[outsider]

The police posted on social media that anyone circulating alternative theories against the police's official story would be prosecuted

How is it that people believe in their own lies? Or think that the whole world is one stupid lot, and that no one can put two and two together? They keep back-pedalling about the stupid cellphone issue. There are bigger unanswered questions out there! And now they want to prosecute people who come up with 'alternative theories'? I'm not one for speculating but those who do are not breaking any laws, are they?

Honestly, for a while I thought a miracle would happen, and real change would come about. But after this and a few other shenanigans, I have to say that the happiness, love, crackdowns, so-called fight against corruption and so on and so forth are nothing but really just the same crap, in a different toilet.

[atlbravosfan]

I live in Thailand and am not hugely impressed by the police .

However in this instance an horrific murder has taken place in Thailand . The Thai police are doing their best to solve the crime

and arrest the culprets . If the Thai police don't do it who else is going to do it . Perhaps the police should drop the case and say to you critics ,

solve it yourselves . Neither the FBI nor Scotland Yard have the local knowhow or language skills and as I understand the DNA is being tested in Singapore , quite independent from Thailand . You think they are pinning the blame on poor illegal immigrants from Myanmar , to save the face of Thailand , accusing the police of racial discrimination . If this had happened in America and an AfroAmerican was blamed , you would be crying foul , racial discrimination .

Not long ago a 13yr old girl was raped on a night train to Bangkok , the THAI railway worker murdered her and threw her body out of the carriage window .

That was not a very good thing to happen in tourist Thailand . When there are so many immigrant workers on a small Thai island there is bound to be a

strong chance that one or more of them has committed the crime .

Spoken like a true Italian - if you get enough of those immigrants together, one of them certainly will wind up murdering some people on holiday! It's just what immigrants do - they are a bunch of low-life criminals!

Also, regarding the Thai train rape/murder - the guy who was found guilty was a nobody and the person who died was Thai. A bit different scenario from what we were looking at here a few weeks ago.

[catweazle]

Like I said in another post: The victims' parents have to ask all these unanswered questions. If they are not interested in finding out the truth, why should anyone else be? Without the parents asking all the questions we ask here over and over again, nothing will change. Without the parents requesting to arrest and interrogate Sean, a key witness or perhaps even accessory to the murder, nothing will change... No petition to ambassador clowns or social media $#!t storms will be able to force officials to steer off the beaten path and admit foul play. But an open inquiry handed in by the parents would!

Edited October 7, 2014 by catweazle

[Carrerakiss]

Police also found a pair of Mr Ware's blood-stained pants in Miller's luggage and an Apple iPhone with long blonde hairs snagged on it.

BP 17th September.

The police already said sorry, the pants were planted by ayoung officer and the blood was actually Paint.

Though one does wonder where the bloody clothes are.

First I heard of this "planting", or that the BIB had confessed to doing it. Or should I say, "clarified a misunderstanding".

I have no idea who did these murders, but rather than just stopping with the two men in custody and saying that's that, I think the BIB need to track down each and every discrepancy and missing information, including the unknown person who's DNA was also found on the female victims body. I mean, is it possible that the two guys in custody did it in conjunction with a local person of influence.....so in fact everyone is right, including the BIB?

NB, this is not an alternative theory from the police, just an extension of their existing theory.

[Anthony5]

hold on mo, correct me If I am wrong, are you not the poster who claimed to be leading this investigation and a member of the RTP, and started making veiled threats about people making comments on this investigation not 24 hours ago ?

Hold on mo, aren't you one of the conspiracy theorists who claim they can do everything better than the police.

I'm surprised you don't mention Gerbils in your post, as that is as far as your brain reaches.

Well if you have been smart enough to read any of my posts on this topic, you will see I have not posted any conspiracy theories on this case at all, actually for once I have been rather quite on this subject, other than the occasional piss take post of the resident CSI'er's on TV.

With that established, I do believe the BiB have stitched up these Burmese guys, but at the same time not getting involved with the tin foil type posts that have been/are being made.

Further although I enjoy throwing a Gerbil into mix on occasion, I feel this is the sort of topic where references to Gerbils and Richard Gere will not go down very well.

So now that I have responded to your attempt to evade may previous remark.

ARE you the poster who claimed to work for the RTP and was leading this investigation and threatened people on TV not 24 hours ago ?

A simple Yes or No will suffice, not need for rhetoric or and trolling type comments

YES or NO

By all means report me to your superiors for questioning the moral integrity of the RTP

If answer is NO...please refer to "Pub forum" under the TV slang definitions thread there is on there just for you under the definition of a "Walt"

I gonna give you a little more than a yes or no, regardless if you like it or not.

Below is my original post answering your question.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/765971-koh-tao-murder-report-to-go-to-prosecutors-this-week-police/?p=8493413

Since you consider yourself the inventor of entertainment on this forum with your really boring gerbil comments, you must be able to discover the sarcasm in my post, as it was an attempt to get the conspiracy brigade of my back who repeatedly kept accusing me, Balo, JTJ and a few other posters of having a vested interest in agreeing with the police investigation, only because our theories don't stroke with their conspiracy theories.

You will also notice that many posts of that other member with a chip on his shoulder who kept looking for an argument regarding my comment have been removed.

So I hope this has answered your question and that this subject is now done, or do you want me go digging through yopur post history ?

[sweatalot]

The police posted on social media that anyone circulating alternative theories against the police's official story would be prosecuted

Since when can it be forbidden to have a theorie? Even in Thailand!

Having a theorie because of many suspicious facts cannot be forbidden as long

as you say it is a theorie - so nobody should claim their theorie right until it is proven.

Of course that applies to the police, too.

But why can' you say: for this and this reason it looks like it is not the way the police claim.

And then demand they proof their vision or unproof yours?

I think the PM with his honorable and highly appreciated goal to install democracy will see this the same way. And I am sure that he understands a

democratic state needs a democratically controlled police.

Edited October 7, 2014 by sweatalot

[AGareth2]

the question is who else is guilty?

[bannork]

Clear as mud, but please answer all the questions thats been asked on the internet, like before the arrest of the suspects police confirmed that all the workers at AC bar DNA was tested and was cleared, only later to arrest a man who was cleared before and then claim his DNA match that that was found on the victim etc etc.

One of the supects worked at AC2 bar which is outside the zone for the first testing.

Neither supect had had their DNA taken prior to their detention.

[Strangebrew]

To Thai police chief Somyot Pumphanmuang Sir you as a man of honor have in your power to lay all this rumors of cover up and such to rest once and for all. By just inviting the FBI to come over to check what you have got against these murders and allow them to send DNA to be tested in FBI labs in Arlington, not only will it show all that you have the right people It will Show the world Thailand is changing for the better. Besides making your case against them airtight. And giving The Royal Thai Police the respect they deserve. This is about not saving Face but about showing you have the face. But I understand this is hard to do in Thai culture But you would get much more back for self and country.

[ingvar]

This is obviously a case of suicide, ask any Police and they will strongly confirm, it is a clear suicide!

[Pattaya46]

Since when can it be forbidden to have a theorie? Even in Thailand!

It's not forbidden

Having a theorie because of many suspicious facts cannot be forbidden as long

as you say it is a theorie - so nobody should claim their theorie right until it is proven.

Again, not forbidden, as long as you say it's a theory, a supposition.

What they don't want are people who affirm facts that are false.

Read again: (what they said, not the sensational part added by the media)

"People who share false information could be charged with insulting officials"