Red shirts shrug off NRC moves, 'to watch process'

[heybruce]

Opinion is all about 'it would seem'. Of course if you think I should ignore opinions ...

BTW I don't challenge on my 'it would seem', I just point out that the interpretation of my opinion is incorrect. Furthermore you ask me how come I 'seem' to know what the UDD thinks and upon pointing out the OP as source, I just ask if you know more than that as you challenge me.

All in good (non alcoholic) spirits, in the privacy of my room, happily waving a hand with one of the digits stretched. May I challenge you to guess which one, my dear non-apologetic, non-rational believer in and of all that is not related to your version of democracy. At least that 'seems' to be your attitude.

"Furthermore you ask me how come I 'seem' to know what the UDD thinks and upon pointing out the OP as source, I just ask if you know more than that as you challenge me."

Where in the OP did a redshirt say "if not my way then now way"? Where did they say they were indifferent?

I read the post and get the impression that the people interviewed are unhappy about the coup, distrustful of the junta, have no confidence in the processes that are supposed to create 'real democracy', and have no desire to participate in what they see as a charade. You read the OP and conclude that since the redshirts aren't working with the junta they are indifferent to Thailand's future. I think my interpretation is the more reasonable one, while yours is more an attempt at mind-reading.

Pray tell, where in the OP are 'the people' being interviewed?

It would seem we have "key red shirts", "UDD co-leader Dr. weng", "UDD leader Jatuporn", "red-shirt historian Suthachai Yimprasert" and "red-shirt supported Ekachai Chainubati".

Somehow 'the people' seem to be missing. Maybe that's because they know when they are supposed to let their leaders talk? Democratically of course.

Ok, the people quoted. Regarding the rest, the OP quotes select redshirts. Are you upset that they didn't provide a quote from every redshirt in Thailand?

[heybruce]

Interestingly the OP does only mention "key red-shirts", like Dr. weng and Jatuporn.

"Red-shirt United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD) co-leader Weng Tojirakarn said the whole process was under the junta's dictates, so it was pointless."

"Red-shirt leader Jatuporn Promphan said he was not surprised that neither red-shirt supporters nor members of Pheu Thai Party were appointed NRC members because his group had refused to join in the first place."

Somehow that gives the democratic impression that the red-shirt leadership has told their flock to sit tight and don't move. Probably because they should wait till the NCPO/NLA steps down before starting their games again?

How does an individual get a "democratic impression"? Do you take a vote among brain cells?

t

Other than that, I read your reply and think 'so what?'. The redshirt leaders probably have been urging their members not to do anything futile, so what? Many people are waiting for the NCPO/NLA to step down or stay in place with a new name, so what? I'm sure the redshirt leadership hopes to play the game of winning the next election, assuming there will be some semblance of a fair election, so what?

Did you really just write in a reply to me " I think my interpretation is the more reasonable one"

Anyway, so what, you like democracy your style to be told to people. That's fine.

The red-shirt leaders probably didn't urge their members, and certainly not in the same way as last time when we had all those cowardly night attack on anti-government supporters.

BTW I didn't know democracy, elections and 'winning' was part of a game, only part of the UDD leaders helping that single person who seems more important than all other Thai put together.

Why don't you put your first question in the post that it applies to? That way I can answer in context.

I don't know where you got that stuff about 'democracy your style'. You can explain if you want, but I don't think you will.

If you have evidence that redshirt leaders orchestrated illegal actions then you should provide it to the police. Otherwise you are just presenting speculation as fact.

You are the one who brought up an unspecified game, I just took my best guess at what you were writing about.

[heybruce]

The PTP, the party that won the election in 2011, was still governing the nation when the coup was staged. You can split hairs as to whether this qualified as an elected government at the time, but the point is that the redshirts saw their party removed from government by the coup and now clearly don't want to have anything to do with the junta.

Regarding your Thaksin news article; I don't know how many people still pay attention to him, and neither do you. However that article would seem to give his blessings to redshirt participation on the NRC.

Finally, on the subject of reforms in general, and education reforms in particular, the NCPO will decide which reforms will be enacted, and Prayuth seems to have a less than liberal attitude towards education: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/10/03/junta-suppression-academic-talk-democracy-exposes-cracks-in-thailand-peaceful/

Actually if someone was 'governing' it would have been the 'unclear status' decimated cabinet and not the Pheu Thai party, or any other party in the nominally coalition government before the House was dissolved.

As for Thaksin, completely agree. Even Jatuporn now talks for Pheu Thai according to the OP.

BTW you used 'seems' in your last sentence. Didn't you just tell my I should not do that ?

You can also split hairs regarding what government was toppled by the coup, but the fact remains that the PTP, the party that won the 2011 election, was the party of the PM at the time and the party officially in charge.

I don't engage in wild speculation when I use the word 'seems', I apply a reasonable interpretation of available evidence. For example, from the above reference about the junta shutting down a seminar on democracy at Thammasat University:

The coup leader, Prayuth Chan-ocha, has been unapologetic. He views criticism of the junta as divisive and unhelpful. He said any group that wants to hold such seminars must get approval first, so the content can be screened — because "if it's about democracy or elections, or how the government is today, this they can't discuss."

So, as I wrote earlier, it would seem that Prayuth has a less than liberal attitude towards education. Do you disagree?

Oh boy, talk about splitting hairs when simply stating "Pheu Thai officially in charge". Next you'll explain to me that in all democracies you know of and approve a party is officially in charge and governing'. and that's even independent of regarding a status as the PM having dissolved the House, the 'unclear status cabinet in decimated form', 'protesting of we cannot step down by law' and even the 'very unclear status' MoFA suggestion the Military declare Martial Law so he can have an election are requested by that criminal fugitive.

As for education, move to the topic on 'lessons on democracy'. With you seeing no problem in a MoE quoting a criminal fugitive philosophically to base his education policy on, that seems more appropriate.

PS no offence, but after needing a day to clear my backlog of replies not seen yet, I need a break. Maybe Monday I'll feel up to it again. Democratically that is.

Cheers,

uncle rubl

Right, the coup was against empty government buildings. Funny that the rest of the world doesn't see it that way.

You questioned my use of the word 'seems' so I provided a quote that backed up my view that it seems that Prayuth doesn't have a liberal attitude to education. The subject of education was initially raised by Robby nz, who's post I was replying to in post #111 above. If you object to the subject refer your suggestions to Robby nz.

Your ridiculous stuff on "quoting a criminal fugitive" has already been answered in the "Lessons on democracy" thread; post #372 http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/764032-lessons-on-democracy-to-be-taught-shortly/page-15 unless the moderator starts cleaning out posts. I won't bother repeating them here.

Edited October 10, 2014 by heybruce