Chiang Mai and the Hippie Trail

[CMHomeboy78]

Not better but different. it depends too on different for whom.

I remember in 1975 showing my then wife a picture of people crossing a Sydney street. She instantly said: Why isn't anyone smiling in the photo. If you take a photo of a Bangkok street it now the same. THen very few people had more than 4 years of school. Now all have 10 and many have degrees. Once waitresses took orders and remembered them as they could not write. You still got things in the same order though. Health for a Thai was pretty limited. If someone got sick most could not see a doctor. Now anyone can get relatively good free healthcare.

Yes, "Not better but different." might do as a generalization, but evaluating the changes that have taken place on the Hippie Trail would mean looking at the towns, cities, and the roads between them individually.

Sink the generalizations... the stark reality tells it all; from the once peaceful and pleasant Kandahar-Kabul run that today is life-threatening, to the polluted waters of Pattaya Bay with its hordes of tourists being milked by mercenary Thais.

War zones and places devastated by mass tourism could probably be balanced out with examples of areas and populations that have benefited by modernization to one extent or another.

That's the reality as I see it.

If I may offer my idea on the subject. I think one would have to consider the outlook of each person. Today the travel is easier but there is no adventure in it. So does that make it better when you cut out the experiences you would lose. For my money no.

As I have honestly stated I was a red neck and would never have done such a hippie thing. If the same travel conditions applied today and thinking the way I do now I would be on the road in the blink of an eye.

So am I going to say things have got better now. No I am not. I will say my attitude has changed a lot.

is a very personal outlook. I fly to Bangkok when I go to Bangkok or Pattaya. I how ever want to take a train just for the experience. People tell me it is not fun Some even bring money into the picture with if you watch the specials every day you can book a flight cheap months ahead. Do I care it is the experience I am looking for not the saving of money or ease. I am not that unhealthy of a 72 year old that he has to take the easy way out of necessity.

I have really enjoyed all the sharing of experiences. It to me is far better than reading a book. The many different experiences of the same thing makes it more real to me than just one mans view. It also reinforces that it was a reality for a very small segment of a society that was in a way looked down on as drug infected do nothing drop outs.

I think it is a fallacy that travellers (hippies) then were drug infected do nothing drop outs. Many did not take any drugs, very few drank alcohol as it was much to expensive...one bottle of beer could be a room and food for a day , some would have the occasional joint and nothing else and a very very small percentage went the whole hog.

Most were people taking a year or two off after college and went back to their earlier lives and some of the most ardent hippie seeming turned into total redneck capitolists.

I think people look at that era in the form of stereotypes on both sides when it never really was that.

Many different experiences and many different kinds of people.

This thread has brought up some interesting ones.

Thanks to everyone who has contributed.

[northernjohn]

Not better but different. it depends too on different for whom.

I remember in 1975 showing my then wife a picture of people crossing a Sydney street. She instantly said: Why isn't anyone smiling in the photo. If you take a photo of a Bangkok street it now the same. THen very few people had more than 4 years of school. Now all have 10 and many have degrees. Once waitresses took orders and remembered them as they could not write. You still got things in the same order though. Health for a Thai was pretty limited. If someone got sick most could not see a doctor. Now anyone can get relatively good free healthcare.

Yes, "Not better but different." might do as a generalization, but evaluating the changes that have taken place on the Hippie Trail would mean looking at the towns, cities, and the roads between them individually.

Sink the generalizations... the stark reality tells it all; from the once peaceful and pleasant Kandahar-Kabul run that today is life-threatening, to the polluted waters of Pattaya Bay with its hordes of tourists being milked by mercenary Thais.

War zones and places devastated by mass tourism could probably be balanced out with examples of areas and populations that have benefited by modernization to one extent or another.

That's the reality as I see it.

If I may offer my idea on the subject. I think one would have to consider the outlook of each person. Today the travel is easier but there is no adventure in it. So does that make it better when you cut out the experiences you would lose. For my money no.

As I have honestly stated I was a red neck and would never have done such a hippie thing. If the same travel conditions applied today and thinking the way I do now I would be on the road in the blink of an eye.

So am I going to say things have got better now. No I am not. I will say my attitude has changed a lot.

is a very personal outlook. I fly to Bangkok when I go to Bangkok or Pattaya. I how ever want to take a train just for the experience. People tell me it is not fun Some even bring money into the picture with if you watch the specials every day you can book a flight cheap months ahead. Do I care it is the experience I am looking for not the saving of money or ease. I am not that unhealthy of a 72 year old that he has to take the easy way out of necessity.

I have really enjoyed all the sharing of experiences. It to me is far better than reading a book. The many different experiences of the same thing makes it more real to me than just one mans view. It also reinforces that it was a reality for a very small segment of a society that was in a way looked down on as drug infected do nothing drop outs.

I think it is a fallacy that travellers (hippies) then were drug infected do nothing drop outs. Many did not take any drugs, very few drank alcohol as it was much to expensive...one bottle of beer could be a room and food for a day , some would have the occasional joint and nothing else and a very very small percentage went the whole hog.

Most were people taking a year or two off after college and went back to their earlier lives and some of the most ardent hippie seeming turned into total redneck capitolists.

I think people look at that era in the form of stereotypes on both sides when it never really was that.

I agree completely with you. As I say I have had shall we say an awakening. As a red neck my mind was completely closed. Today I thirst for the experience that I can never fully physically endure.

Thank you very much for your first hand experiences.

[haybilly]

I miss the freedom and spontaneity that youth gave me, plus the ability to find short term work for long enough to pay for the next adventure -added to that the total confidence that we were right and 'they' were wrong.

But I was fairly spaced out to be honest. There was a real feeling of belonging to something.

I was probably a real pain in the butt, and I would rip the piss out of me if I met myself today.

[arunsakda]

What was Chiang Mai like in 1967?

[onthedarkside]

Off topic post and the reply - removed.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Interesting article on this topic:

http://www.southeastasiabackpacker.com/interview-hitchhiking-busking-sleeping-in-temples-what-was-backpacking-south-east-asia-like-50-years-ago

[CMHomeboy78]

Interesting article on this topic:

http://www.southeastasiabackpacker.com/interview-hitchhiking-busking-sleeping-in-temples-what-was-backpacking-south-east-asia-like-50-years-ago

Thanks for one of the best contributions to this thread.

[Konini]

Interesting article on this topic:

http://www.southeastasiabackpacker.com/interview-hitchhiking-busking-sleeping-in-temples-what-was-backpacking-south-east-asia-like-50-years-ago

<SPLUTTER>

You almost gave me a heart attact. The 1960's wasn't 50 years ago, that would make me old or something

(Really, that's the first time I've seen it written down like that. I remember years ago when I had an xray for something and seeing my name, OK, date of birth, OK, then next to it was the number 36, and I realised I hadn't seen my actual age written down on something for years and years. It stunned me. Seriously. It brought the same kind of splutter moment to me that I had when I saw your post).

(I shall now retire to the boudoir and sulk contemplate).

EDIT: And that was a lovely read on the website. It must have been so strange (for the locals, not you!) and lovely.

Edited October 17, 2014 by Konini

[harrry]

Interesting article on this topic:

http://www.southeastasiabackpacker.com/interview-hitchhiking-busking-sleeping-in-temples-what-was-backpacking-south-east-asia-like-50-years-ago

<SPLUTTER>

You almost gave me a heart attact. The 1960's wasn't 50 years ago, that would make me old or something

(Really, that's the first time I've seen it written down like that. I remember years ago when I had an xray for something and seeing my name, OK, date of birth, OK, then next to it was the number 36, and I realised I hadn't seen my actual age written down on something for years and years. It stunned me. Seriously. It brought the same kind of splutter moment to me that I had when I saw your post).

(I shall now retire to the boudoir and sulk contemplate).

EDIT: And that was a lovely read on the website. It must have been so strange (for the locals, not you!) and lovely.

Even worst when you hear the beatles sing "When I'm 64" and note that was long ago.

[californiabeachboy]

This thread has been a great read.

I am in the minor leagues compared to many here when it comes to the hippie trail - back in 1968 I did the California hippie trail from Los Angeles to San Francisco as a 17 year old to enjoy the Summer of Love and try to get a date with Grace Slick. Sadly, I went in 1968, and the Summer of Love was 1967, and for some strange reason I never got a date with Grace Slick.

But back on topic, when I was planning my first trip to Thailand 5 years ago, Chiang Mai was not on the top of the list (where's the beach!!). But I went and have been coming back ever since, and now I know why. There is a lot of hippie DNA running loose on the streets of Chiang Mai. Make Love, Not War (or something like that).

[CMHomeboy78]

This thread has been a great read.

I am in the minor leagues compared to many here when it comes to the hippie trail - back in 1968 I did the California hippie trail from Los Angeles to San Francisco as a 17 year old to enjoy the Summer of Love and try to get a date with Grace Slick. Sadly, I went in 1968, and the Summer of Love was 1967, and for some strange reason I never got a date with Grace Slick.

But back on topic, when I was planning my first trip to Thailand 5 years ago, Chiang Mai was not on the top of the list (where's the beach!!). But I went and have been coming back ever since, and now I know why. There is a lot of hippie DNA running loose on the streets of Chiang Mai. Make Love, Not War (or something like that).

I enjoyed it too.

Not only for the exchange of interesting information, but for the spirit of good-natured camaraderie that was so prevalent among young people travelling in those days. In spite of - or perhaps because of - all kinds of dangers and depravations.

[rhodie]

Interesting article on this topic:

http://www.southeastasiabackpacker.com/interview-hitchhiking-busking-sleeping-in-temples-what-was-backpacking-south-east-asia-like-50-years-ago

Great link and thanks to all the contributors. A real trip back.

Wish I could contribute but I can only dream of being there in those times.

Any more?

[pomchop]

The Malaysia Hotel? I used to stay there too.

As a bookseller, you may have read Richard Neville's book about Charles Sobhraj. If not, by all means do.

Incidentally, if you can get some used copies, please send me a PM. I'll buy several. The only one I have is falling apart. It is the cheap Pan [1980] reprint of the original Jonathan Cape [1979] edition.

I assume you have likely also read Serpentine a story of Sobraj? Great read.

I was hanging out in Istanbul in the Pudding shop at the same time that Sobraj was on the hunt for victims....I also traveled across Iran which needless to say wasn't exactly an easy trip in those days.

http://www.amazon.com/Serpentine-Thomas-Thompson/dp/0786707496/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1415852660&sr=8-2&keywords=serpentine+book

[CMHomeboy78]

The Malaysia Hotel? I used to stay there too.

As a bookseller, you may have read Richard Neville's book about Charles Sobhraj. If not, by all means do.

Incidentally, if you can get some used copies, please send me a PM. I'll buy several. The only one I have is falling apart. It is the cheap Pan [1980] reprint of the original Jonathan Cape [1979] edition.

I assume you have likely also read Serpentine a story of Sobraj? Great read.

I was hanging out in Istanbul in the Pudding shop at the same time that Sobraj was on the hunt for victims....I also traveled across Iran which needless to say wasn't exactly an easy trip in those days.

http://www.amazon.com/Serpentine-Thomas-Thompson/dp/0786707496/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1415852660&sr=8-2&keywords=serpentine+book

Thanks for the reminder. I have heard of the book but never read it. I will make a point of doing so.

As you probably know, Charles Sobhraj is still alive doing time in Katmandu, so his incredible story isn't over yet.

Good to hear from someone who made the trip... yes, I remember the Pudding Shop. If you were heading East it was a good place to meet travellers who were coming back with current information. I'll never forget the hippie girls all tricked out like Persian houris... what a time!

[pomchop]

The Malaysia Hotel? I used to stay there too.

As a bookseller, you may have read Richard Neville's book about Charles Sobhraj. If not, by all means do.

Incidentally, if you can get some used copies, please send me a PM. I'll buy several. The only one I have is falling apart. It is the cheap Pan [1980] reprint of the original Jonathan Cape [1979] edition.

I assume you have likely also read Serpentine a story of Sobraj? Great read.

I was hanging out in Istanbul in the Pudding shop at the same time that Sobraj was on the hunt for victims....I also traveled across Iran which needless to say wasn't exactly an easy trip in those days.

http://www.amazon.com/Serpentine-Thomas-Thompson/dp/0786707496/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1415852660&sr=8-2&keywords=serpentine+book

Thanks for the reminder. I have heard of the book but never read it. I will make a point of doing so.

As you probably know, Charles Sobhraj is still alive doing time in Katmandu, so his incredible story isn't over yet.

Good to hear from someone who made the trip... yes, I remember the Pudding Shop. If you were heading East it was a good place to meet travellers who were coming back with current information. I'll never forget the hippie girls all tricked out like Persian houris... what a time!

I've read and reread Serpentine probably five or more times....always a great read and always a reminder that I possibly could well have become one of his victims as he and I apparently crossed paths several times. He was no doubt one of the ultimate evil conmen to be roaming the hippie trails.

Another book that is a fantastic read and perhaps my favorite book ever is The Journeyer by Gary Jennings....it is a fictionalized version of Marco Polo's trip to China and he passes through Siam and many other places that will be familiar to travelers. What adventures the book portrays. I think it's out of print but you can still find it at amazon.com http://www.amazon.com/The-Journeyer-Gary-Jennings/dp/0765323494