Universal doubts cloud 'perfect' Koh Tao murder investigation

[kinmaew]

It is a "perfect" result in Thai terms: Lies, bribery, corruption, torture etc

Sort of like when I was teaching the policy was "Every student must pass" and with this universal policy we see the results.

The British Authorities and the families of the victims must be fuming at this sheer incompetence.

Thais - If you can't do the job properly you need to lose your bloody face and ask the poms for help or better give them unfettered access to this case to get it solved and put the perps where they should be, in hell!

[MrJohnson]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11147921/Amnesty-urges-investigation-into-torture-of-Thai-island-murder-suspects.html

Now that has clout to quote another, the pressure is mounting.

I wonder how JTJ will spin this one out

Good Article. The RTP cannot afford to have this case go to trial or undergo any kind of scrutiny at all - it will fall apart very quickly.

[Dogmatix]

An interesting point from the recent police statements on the television is that suspect Zaw Lyn took David's phone and gave it to a Burmese friend who found it didn't work (with a Thai SIM card) and smashed it up before helpfully depositing in the bushes next to Zaw's residence. The police didn't name this accomplice but then they don't seem to know the real names of the suspects anyway.

Why has this accomplice not been named and arrested as an accessory after the fact?

[lavender19]

Perhaps the UK Government should just do their own analysis on any samples recovered and fully publish them online for future verification by anyone who cares to do so.

For example the parents / siblings of the accused will show familial matches with the evidence assuming they are guilty.

This won't go away, proof of innocence would be just as damning as proof of guilt.

I suspect the Burmese and British governments will be setting this up right now if they care at all about this case.

There's nothing the Thai's could do to prevent this or meddle with it in any way.

Over 45,000 signatures now asking UK government to act

http://www.change.org/p/the-government-of-the-united-kingdom-independently-investigate-the-horrific-murders-of-hannah-witheridge-and-david-miller?lang=en-GB&recruiter=51139167&utm_campaign=twitter_link_action_box&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=share_petition

[muntergok]

Perfect police, a perfect army,a perfect PM running a perfect government.

With everything so peachy I feel next years TAT slogan should read

"PERFECT THAILAND"

[taony]

Please sign this petition if you haven't already - http://www.change.org/p/the-government-of-the-united-kingdom-independently-investigate-the-horrific-murders-of-hannah-witheridge-and-david-miller

Would love to, but what goes where? it is all in Thai. i tried and filled in what I thought was correct, but it was rejected.

This is the with the English tab checked at the bottom, but the form is still in Thai:

http://www.change.org/p/the-government-of-the-united-kingdom-independently-investigate-the-horrific-murders-of-hannah-witheridge-and-david-miller

The fields are:

NAME

LAST NAME

EMAIL

CITY

TELL US WHY THIS IS IMPORTANT TO YOU

then uncheck the box so your name doesn't appear on the site.

[smileydude]

Conspiracy theorists aside, if the Thai Police want to clear up any doubts they should get Scotland Yard briefed and involved with the entire evidence gathering, interviewing and judicial process. I don't believe they can pull the wool over experts eyes.

For the rest of us untrained in police investigative methodology I doubt we can say with certainty whether these migrant workers are guilty or not.

Its nothing but speculative heresay that does nothing to contribute to the pursuit of justice and closure for the parents of those murdered.

[taony]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11147921/Amnesty-urges-investigation-into-torture-of-Thai-island-murder-suspects.html

Now that has clout to quote another, the pressure is mounting.

I wonder how JTJ will spin this one out

Good Article. The RTP cannot afford to have this case go to trial or undergo any kind of scrutiny at all - it will fall apart very quickly.

Makes it a bit scary for the lives of these two then - and the third "witness" being held incognito.

[JLCrab]

Perhaps the UK Government should just do their own analysis on any samples recovered and fully publish them online for future verification by anyone who cares to do so.

For example the parents / siblings of the accused will show familial matches with the evidence assuming they are guilty.

This won't go away, proof of innocence would be just as damning as proof of guilt.

I suspect the Burmese and British governments will be setting this up right now if they care at all about this case.

There's nothing the Thai's could do to prevent this or meddle with it in any way.

Over 45,000 signatures now asking UK government to act

http://www.change.org/p/the-government-of-the-united-kingdom-independently-investigate-the-horrific-murders-of-hannah-witheridge-and-david-miller?lang=en-GB&recruiter=51139167&utm_campaign=twitter_link_action_box&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=share_petition

The UK has no jurisdiction to act in this matter. If the Thais want an independent investigation that is for them to ask. 'Independent' may mean some entity other than the UK government as it is UK nationals that were the unfortunate victims.

[freedom4life]

Here's the non-suspect who fled the island the day after and has not provided a dna sample.

Mon sot.....

Taken from his fb page

So why are the police not on this freak's tail?

[transam]

Here's the non-suspect who fled the island the day after and has not provided a dna sample.

Mon sot.....

Taken from his fb page

So why are the police not on this freak's tail?

[lavender19]

Here's the non-suspect who fled the island the day after and has not provided a dna sample.

Mon sot.....

Taken from his fb page

So why are the police not on this freak's tail?

Because of who he is and probably large brown envelopes

[ukrules]

UK Rules--you often suggest that the UK Government 'should' do XYZ--but, as we all know, this is very unlikely--Cameron has enough on his plate with ISIS, UKIP, and other anagrams and really--does he have the balls? The UK Police are about as likely to get involved as Deputy Dawg.

This has nothing to do with Cameron and how busy he is. There's a full and dedicated system in place for creating DNA profiles of the whole population, in fact I believe this is their ultimate goal.

When a victim arrives back in the UK after a vicious murder it is investigated, inquests can be held regardless of where the person dies.

If thi shappens samples will have been collected and stored permanently. These samples would be sent to a well equiped DNA lab along with 1000's of other samples collected every week and a full DNA profile of the material will have been produced.

This will have been done already as it's a standard procedure.

Read this - Section 5.2 in particular :

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/141958/mou-fco-acpo-coroners.pdf

If the families of the victims are fully satisfied that a full and honest investigation has taken place then I'm sure there will be no issue.

However if they aren't 100% satisfied then the following appears to apply :

request-assistance.JPG

Also this one from the above link :

request-assistance-2.JPG

So to sum it up, a murder investigation will be launched.

Do you think the families are full satisfied at this stage ?

Is it confirmed that the bodies of the deceased were sent for autopsy in the UK? I thought the Thais only send embalmed bodies abroad after removal of all internal organs in cases like this to avoid the embarrassment of conflicting autopsy reports.

Is is also confirmed that there will be inquests? Without reliable autopsies inquests would be a lot less effective.

Nothing is confirmed. From what I've read it's up to the families. If they are 100% satisfied with the investigation abroad then there would be no investigation.

Do you think the families of the victims are 100% satisfied ?

Don't expect any announcements of intentions. If we hear anything if will be when the results are beyond doubt.

I have a feeling that familial DNA testing could be useful here. Familial DNA analysis can be used to prove guilt just as easily as it can be used to prove innocence.

It's worth remembering that the victims bodies were repatriated quickly, before there were any suggestions that someone with influence may or may not have been involved in this case.

[montereyjp]

This is really sad, I find it hard to believe that these 2 little runts are guilty.

Exactly.. How big was David Miller? Certainly much bigger then these two guys... And we are suppose to believe that they over powered David with a hoe and a stick while Hanna waited and watched? I find it very hard to believe...

[KIWIBATCH]

2 Burmese lads...fitted up...tortured..beaten (injuries to prove it)...cannot speak thai..yet were interrogated for hours!!!!....police now not letting anybody near a 3rd Burmese person they are holding "in a safe house" as he is a "crucial witness" in the case......yet he has been beaten and tortured as well by the RTP

This is not going to go away Thailand.....suggest you get your act together and stop the BS...the world media is watching and receiving daily reports on this....even little old New Zealand featured it on front page news of their national newspaper today

[peecee]

= BiB

That's you in their little black book!

[Dogmatix]

Clip from Thai PBS about the Burmese takraw players who were allegedy treated with boling water.

The clip also shows David's black iPhone 4 (before it was broken and left in the bushes) with a document purporting to show it was part of the deceased's personal effects.

The condom is also shown and the commentator mentions the fact that Hannah's DNA was found on the outside but none was found on the inside. She said that the police declined to answer their questions about the relevance of the condom.

A policeman is shown insisting that only the two suspects whose DNA was allegedly found inside the victim were involved in the rape and murder (despite the apparently contradictory evidence of the condom) and begging for the public to understand that.

[freedom4life]

Here's the non-suspect who fled the island the day after and has not provided a dna sample.

Mon sot.....

Taken from his fb page

who is this man and why you say it is involved? Just asking because I don't followed the case

This is Nomsod, or Dodo - The son of village headman Warot Tuvichien. The Thai webpage CSI LA has been working on this guy. I read Thai so I have been able to scour the site and I believe he was involved too.

His father claims he wasn't there, and they have CCTV footage in his uni in BKK to prove it, but the CCTV footage is after 9am the next day and previously the day before. A speedboat was seen leaving the Island early and its assumed he got out to a nearby airport (samui/surat/etc).

He is the one running on the CCTV footage with no shirt. I have looked at many differnet cross-comparisons of his gait, haircut etc and he seems to be the one.

Also Thai people from Koh Tao, too afraid to speak out have contacted this page to say he was there that night, and other students at his uni confirmed he wasnt in for class the following day and when he did return people noticed scratches on his neck and arms.

Him along with his uncle, the 'mafia guy' in Seans picture, and at the crime site (Mon Tuvichien) are both left handed as seen from pictures, which is consistent with the wounds to David's body. The 2 Burmese are both right handed, I noticed myself from videos and pictures.

Don't underestimate the connections of the Tuvichien family.

If anyone wants to know anymore details feel free to PM me.

Regards

Hey..this being the case as you have stated..either Thai visa or a Thai-media outlet better present this to the police immediately..even if they already know. This will let them know that we know...I'm sick of this mafia running everything in Thailand. This has to be brought to bare.

[laobali]

A much closer look at this case needs to be conducted

An astute observation indeed.

[IAMSOBAD]

Universal doubts?

Aliens on Mars and Venus don't believe all the RTP says.

Even Pluto finds it difficult.

[ChrisY1]

Here's the non-suspect who fled the island the day after and has not provided a dna sample.

Mon sot.....

Taken from his fb page

So why are the police not on this freak's tail?

I guess we should ask........how high up the chain does protection for these people go?..........I'm suggesting that maybe, a lot higher than many of us suspect

[Pundi6446]

There was nothing perfect about it, there were so many holes in it, you could shift-screen dirt through it, and dirt there was, for sure, the whole thing stunk from day one. I for one speculated they'd get some unsuspecting patsies, to take a fall with these murders, and this proved to be right. Tortured, lied to, and threatened, they have there men, and are sticking to it.

Bring in a independent investigative unit, from the UK, or USA, what ever happened to the onetime remark, that the FBI was going to join in on this case, and DNA samples?

These two workers need some real forensics specialists, to help them, or they are going to go down, and there will always be doubts on every bodies minds, as to who really did this tragic murder. I see pictures in here of the Thai, who ran away, what about him, no capture, no DNA, no nothing, no case as far as I see.

Keystones cops could do a better job of putting it all the together, way too many convenient, explanations by the Thai cops, and yes they did this, no it was a farang the DNA proves it, blah, blah , blah , anything to make it stick, or cover up the truth. So many times now, has this happened, that I think most everybody is getting as confused with all this so called (none) evidence, that they just quickly want to sweep it under the carpet, sort of speak, and turn the page, on real hard facts.

Shame, shame, shame on us all for letting this get as far as it did !!!!

Edited October 8, 2014 by Pundi6446

[Rykbanlor]

People are aware, but theres a lot involved and whos gonna puch the thai police?

[Rykbanlor]

I suspect the higher up it goes, its not so much about direct connections, as much as keeping face or admitting the extent to which this country is crippled by the patronage system. Prayuth won't be keen to recant his praise

[haybilly]

UK Rules--you often suggest that the UK Government 'should' do XYZ--but, as we all know, this is very unlikely--Cameron has enough on his plate with ISIS, UKIP, and other anagrams and really--does he have the balls? The UK Police are about as likely to get involved as Deputy Dawg.

This has nothing to do with Cameron and how busy he is. There's a full and dedicated system in place for creating DNA profiles of the whole population, in fact I believe this is their ultimate goal.

When a victim arrives back in the UK after a vicious murder it is investigated, inquests can be held regardless of where the person dies.

If thi shappens samples will have been collected and stored permanently. These samples would be sent to a well equiped DNA lab along with 1000's of other samples collected every week and a full DNA profile of the material will have been produced.

This will have been done already as it's a standard procedure.

Read this - Section 5.2 in particular :

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/141958/mou-fco-acpo-coroners.pdf

If the families of the victims are fully satisfied that a full and honest investigation has taken place then I'm sure there will be no issue.

However if they aren't 100% satisfied then the following appears to apply :

request-assistance.JPG

Also this one from the above link :

request-assistance-2.JPG

So to sum it up, a murder investigation will be launched.

Do you think the families are full satisfied at this stage ?

Is it confirmed that the bodies of the deceased were sent for autopsy in the UK? I thought the Thais only send embalmed bodies abroad after removal of all internal organs in cases like this to avoid the embarrassment of conflicting autopsy reports.

Is is also confirmed that there will be inquests? Without reliable autopsies inquests would be a lot less effective.

Nothing is confirmed. From what I've read it's up to the families. If they are 100% satisfied with the investigation abroad then there would be no investigation.

Do you think the families of the victims are 100% satisfied ?

Don't expect any announcements of intentions. If we hear anything if will be when the results are beyond doubt.

I have a feeling that familial DNA testing could be useful here. Familial DNA analysis can be used to prove guilt just as easily as it can be used to prove innocence.

It's worth remembering that the victims bodies were repatriated quickly, before there were any suggestions that someone with influence may or may not have been involved in this case.

I understand what you are saying, and obviously would be as happy as anyone were it to happen, but how do you suppose the UK investigators would go about getting 'familial DNA'if the family doesn't wish to provide it?

[Doc46]

Now the burmese have their lawyers perhaps we could start a fund to match the $1 million baht that the head man said he would pay if anyone could prove anyone from his family was involved....

Let's rustle up a million baht and offer it to the heads mans family if they give DNA samples to the UK authorities..All the sons and cousins...not put the samples in a taxi fto Singapore and end up in bkk...Let the uk compare them with the samples they have

If they have nothing to hide they'd jump at it and all this inuendo would vanish...

Then their sweet little Island can return to business as normal, even regain their already lost face and income,

What's worse for a Thai, loss of face or money? Well you have all of the above now..

Would be the perfect call for his disgusting offer of a million to prove his family did it...

The familes DNA holds the key..

What's this bullshit about giving DNA to the Pommies,,,If one wants a independent investigation I would say the only ones that could maybe help the Thai investigators is a combined effort from the UN and the Thai Police,,,Not UK!

[transam]

Now the burmese have their lawyers perhaps we could start a fund to match the $1 million baht that the head man said he would pay if anyone could prove anyone from his family was involved....

Let's rustle up a million baht and offer it to the heads mans family if they give DNA samples to the UK authorities..All the sons and cousins...not put the samples in a taxi fto Singapore and end up in bkk...Let the uk compare them with the samples they have

If they have nothing to hide they'd jump at it and all this inuendo would vanish...

Then their sweet little Island can return to business as normal, even regain their already lost face and income,

What's worse for a Thai, loss of face or money? Well you have all of the above now..

Would be the perfect call for his disgusting offer of a million to prove his family did it...

The familes DNA holds the key..

What's this bullshit about giving DNA to the Pommies,,,If one wants a independent investigation I would say the only ones that could maybe help the Thai investigators is a combined effort from the UN and the Thai Police,,,Not UK!

Why...?

[haybilly]

Now the burmese have their lawyers perhaps we could start a fund to match the $1 million baht that the head man said he would pay if anyone could prove anyone from his family was involved....

Let's rustle up a million baht and offer it to the heads mans family if they give DNA samples to the UK authorities..All the sons and cousins...not put the samples in a taxi fto Singapore and end up in bkk...Let the uk compare them with the samples they have

If they have nothing to hide they'd jump at it and all this inuendo would vanish...

Then their sweet little Island can return to business as normal, even regain their already lost face and income,

What's worse for a Thai, loss of face or money? Well you have all of the above now..

Would be the perfect call for his disgusting offer of a million to prove his family did it...

The familes DNA holds the key..

What's this bullshit about giving DNA to the Pommies,,,If one wants a independent investigation I would say the only ones that could maybe help the Thai investigators is a combined effort from the UN and the Thai Police,,,Not UK!

Apart from your obvious prejudice, the main reason is that the victims were British citizens- and leave your xenophobia at the door, please.

Edit...

Our are you suggesting that should be the reason for excluding the UK Police-that in some way they would be biased?

Edited October 8, 2014 by haybilly

[Rykbanlor]

He said Pommies. Thats why

[haybilly]

He said Pommies. Thats why

Yes, most of us are aware of the reference.