Amnesty Calls For Investigation Into Torture Allegations on Koh Tao

[seahorse]

The BIB have dug themselves a massive hole, be interesting to see them try and dig out of this.

The outcome of this will depend on the General's stance.

In my opinion, it's a wonderful opportunity for him to show he's sincere about wishing to stamp out police incompetence and corruption.

Only problem is that he already congratulated them for a perfect and well-done job. Now he will have a problem explaining that.

The PM/General can wiggle out of this as he is after all the main man. Send the cops off to inactive posts make the Islands head man's life uncomfortable, he may even fall over in the shower. put 500 soldiers on the Island. Whatever he wants.

I would like to see Koh Tao be made a National Park, cleared of any human occupation and kept as a wildlife sanctuary. Can't see it happening, though.

[TTom911]

fighting corruption needs opening cans, and more cans, of worms, each of gigantic proportions... but this can is open now... question is what creeps out... will not be pretty, for sure... let's see...

Edited October 9, 2014 by TTom911

[joecoolfrog]

SichonSteve

You are a complete fool , no doubt you think yourself far too smart to ever find yourself in trouble , lets hope you are right.

[Traveler19491]

It has been suggested that this case offers a golden opportunity for the Prime Minister to demonstrate his commitment to ridding the country of corruption, and restoring trust in the police. I concur.

It has also been pointed out that since the PM has already offered his support and congratulations to the police for their "excellent" work in concluding this case, that it would be difficult, if not impossible, for him to now require that the case be reopened, evidence re-examined, and DNA submitted for independent, outside confirmation of the supposed positive results without appearing incompetent. I disagree.

The fact is that it would be quite easy for the PM to assert that, in the interest of judicial fairness to the accused, to clear up alleged discrepancies, and to assuage the skepticism of critics, he is now ordering a re-investigation. To assure the public of fairness and transparency, he could invite international observers, and require that the DNA tests be reperformed by an independent, outside service. Should it turn out that the "guilty" workers are shown to be innocent, the PM could then claim credit for his (and his government's) determination to see that true justice is done. Granted, it would be an implausible claim, at best, but would provide the PM with a "face saving" means of extricating himself from this morass. It would mean throwing the police chief, investigators, cops on the scene, interrogators, and every other, what would have been determined at that point to be, inept individual associated with this case under the bus, but then if they are, indeed, guilty of malfeasance, then they dug their own graves.

The spotlight is on Thailand, upon the Prime Minister, and upon the Thai judicial system. The PM has an incredible opportunity to clear the decks, if, in fact, the police have bungled this case. He can, and should, get rid of anyone guilty of less than adequate performance. This would, in one move, elevate his credibility substantially, gain the trust and admiration of the Thai public for his, and his administration's, work, and for his promises to bring substantive change to Thailand and the Thai people. It would also permit him the chance to start reforming the police from the bottom up, to reform police practices, and to demonstrate that incompetence will not, under his governance, be tolerated. While it would mean that he would have to suffer some criticism for the initial failures of the police in this case, that would be minimal, as the buck would be passed, he could plausibly claim that he was misled, but also claim that he was quick to remedy the failures.

For him, it's a win-win opportunity. If it should turn out that the accused are, in fact, guilty, he wins, and get's to say, "I told you so!". If it turns out they are not guilty, he wins by demonstrating that his commitment to change is real and meaningful. I just hope he sees the advantage to taking positive action in this case, and not relying on the demonstrated failure of "business as usual".

[chooka]

"The British newspaper The Guardian also reported that photographic evidence, seen by the newspaper, of the alleged abuse of three other Burmese migrant workers who said they had been scalded with boiling water during a police interrogation, had been passed to the British ambassador to Thailand Mark Kent".

What good will handing this to Mr Kent be?, he has already expressed his pleasure in the police forces investigation......

Please follow the subject so as to make informed comment; M Kent had denied he did so.

It (his expressing pleasure) was another lie, in a long string of lies, uttered by members of the RTP.

In fact if one studiously follows this subject it can see be seen that Mark Kent, by his actions, and unspoken words has done quite the opposite of "expressing his pleasure".

Thai's seem to like speaking for others. Like they claimed they now had the tour De France with the blessing of the French until the French said it was all rubbish. They seem to think what they say to Thai people never gets heard outside thier shores.

[chooka]

It has been suggested that this case offers a golden opportunity for the Prime Minister to demonstrate his commitment to ridding the country of corruption, and restoring trust in the police. I concur.

It has also been pointed out that since the PM has already offered his support and congratulations to the police for their "excellent" work in concluding this case, that it would be difficult, if not impossible, for him to now require that the case be reopened, evidence re-examined, and DNA submitted for independent, outside confirmation of the supposed positive results without appearing incompetent. I disagree.

The fact is that it would be quite easy for the PM to assert that, in the interest of judicial fairness to the accused, to clear up alleged discrepancies, and to assuage the skepticism of critics, he is now ordering a re-investigation. To assure the public of fairness and transparency, he could invite international observers, and require that the DNA tests be reperformed by an independent, outside service. Should it turn out that the "guilty" workers are shown to be innocent, the PM could then claim credit for his (and his government's) determination to see that true justice is done. Granted, it would be an implausible claim, at best, but would provide the PM with a "face saving" means of extricating himself from this morass. It would mean throwing the police chief, investigators, cops on the scene, interrogators, and every other, what would have been determined at that point to be, inept individual associated with this case under the bus, but then if they are, indeed, guilty of malfeasance, then they dug their own graves.

The spotlight is on Thailand, upon the Prime Minister, and upon the Thai judicial system. The PM has an incredible opportunity to clear the decks, if, in fact, the police have bungled this case. He can, and should, get rid of anyone guilty of less than adequate performance. This would, in one move, elevate his credibility substantially, gain the trust and admiration of the Thai public for his, and his administration's, work, and for his promises to bring substantive change to Thailand and the Thai people. It would also permit him the chance to start reforming the police from the bottom up, to reform police practices, and to demonstrate that incompetence will not, under his governance, be tolerated. While it would mean that he would have to suffer some criticism for the initial failures of the police in this case, that would be minimal, as the buck would be passed, he could plausibly claim that he was misled, but also claim that he was quick to remedy the failures.

For him, it's a win-win opportunity. If it should turn out that the accused are, in fact, guilty, he wins, and get's to say, "I told you so!". If it turns out they are not guilty, he wins by demonstrating that his commitment to change is real and meaningful. I just hope he sees the advantage to taking positive action in this case, and not relying on the demonstrated failure of "business as usual".

He has no intention of cleaning up corruption, in fact he is actually rewarding the BIB for this fare of an investigation and patting them on the back for what they have done. The P.M has proved he supports corruption and is absolutely no different to anyone who has gone before him.

[Alwyn]

The BIB have dug themselves a massive hole, be interesting to see them try and dig out of this.

The outcome of this will depend on the General's stance.

In my opinion, it's a wonderful opportunity for him to show he's sincere about wishing to stamp out police incompetence and corruption.

So after publicly stating he is going to reward the police for their professionalism etc, do you honestly think he's going to do the right thing and cause himself a loss of face?

[MediaWatcher]

TTom911, on 09 Oct 2014 - 11:49, said:

the heat is building up and they will be very surprised how hot it will get... maybe it becomes a "learning experience"... they will surely not "learn" without "pain" (conscience will never bee good enough for them to do "the right thing"... GOOD LUCK for AI and whoever else tries to establish the truth and bring justice !!!

You forget one thing, this is Thailand, where people get "promoted" even if nothing is learnt, it starts at school and goes on throughout their lives. Look around, how often do you see them "learn" from their failures....

[Scully]

"The British newspaper The Guardian also reported that photographic evidence, seen by the newspaper, of the alleged abuse of three other Burmese migrant workers who said they had been scalded with boiling water during a police interrogation, had been passed to the British ambassador to Thailand Mark Kent".

What good will handing this to Mr Kent be?, he has already expressed his pleasure in the police forces investigation......

Please follow the subject so as to make informed comment; M Kent had denied he did so.

It (his expressing pleasure) was another lie, in a long string of lies, uttered by members of the RTP.

In fact if one studiously follows this subject it can see be seen that Mark Kent, by his actions, and unspoken words has done quite the opposite of "expressing his pleasure".

Please could you provide the source so I could make an "informed comment". There are several different stories a day from several news outlets and endless links to social media. Please realise that most on here have been members for years, I have nothing against new members but many have just signed up for this one terrible news story.

Its a bit like slowing down to watch a car crash.

[outsider]

The BIB have dug themselves a massive hole, be interesting to see them try and dig out of this.

The outcome of this will depend on the General's stance.

In my opinion, it's a wonderful opportunity for him to show he's sincere about wishing to stamp out police incompetence and corruption.

Agreed. Especially if he is sincere about showing that he is sincere. Only problem is, the good general has gone on record to say that it was a 'job well done' and that the police (or those involved, whatever) will be rewarded. More interesting to see how the good general himself back out of THAT one.

[Brian Corrigan]

would it be a good idea to put the two "Suspects" on suicide watch.

[TTom911]

TTom911, on 09 Oct 2014 - 11:49, said:

the heat is building up and they will be very surprised how hot it will get... maybe it becomes a "learning experience"... they will surely not "learn" without "pain" (conscience will never bee good enough for them to do "the right thing"... GOOD LUCK for AI and whoever else tries to establish the truth and bring justice !!!

You forget one thing, this is Thailand, where people get "promoted" even if nothing is learnt, it starts at school and goes on throughout their lives. Look around, how often do you see them "learn" from their failures....

I thought I made clear that I don't believe they learn(ed) anything, nor do I believe they see any reason or have any intention to learn a thing...

but the international spotlight might force their hand in a way they can't imagine even today... the international political scene of the recent years is littered with "old-school big shots" who did not realise that the "connected world" can bite EVERYONE in their a......

Let's watch this unfold in slow motion...

[TTom911]

would it be a good idea to put the two "Suspects" on suicide watch.

yeah, some people might see already some "very unfortunate accident(s)" coming... nothing can be ruled out once we get to this nasty stage...

[MediaWatcher]

TTom911, on 09 Oct 2014 - 15:41, said:

MediaWatcher, on 09 Oct 2014 - 14:32, said:

TTom911, on 09 Oct 2014 - 11:49, said:TTom911, on 09 Oct 2014 - 11:49, said:

the heat is building up and they will be very surprised how hot it will get... maybe it becomes a "learning experience"... they will surely not "learn" without "pain" (conscience will never bee good enough for them to do "the right thing"... GOOD LUCK for AI and whoever else tries to establish the truth and bring justice !!!

You forget one thing, this is Thailand, where people get "promoted" even if nothing is learnt, it starts at school and goes on throughout their lives. Look around, how often do you see them "learn" from their failures....

I thought I made clear that I don't believe they learn(ed) anything, nor do I believe they see any reason or have any intention to learn a thing...

but the international spotlight might force their hand in a way they can't imagine even today... the international political scene of the recent years is littered with "old-school big shots" who did not realise that the "connected world" can bite EVERYONE in their a......

Let's watch this unfold in slow motion...

Sorry, but for me it wasn't clear that you thought they hadn't "learnt' anything... (yes, learnt is correct, Google it) Notice, I didn't pick you up on "bee."

[ScotBkk]

It has been suggested that this case offers a golden opportunity for the Prime Minister to demonstrate his commitment to ridding the country of corruption, and restoring trust in the police. I concur.

It has also been pointed out that since the PM has already offered his support and congratulations to the police for their "excellent" work in concluding this case, that it would be difficult, if not impossible, for him to now require that the case be reopened, evidence re-examined, and DNA submitted for independent, outside confirmation of the supposed positive results without appearing incompetent. I disagree.

The fact is that it would be quite easy for the PM to assert that, in the interest of judicial fairness to the accused, to clear up alleged discrepancies, and to assuage the skepticism of critics, he is now ordering a re-investigation. To assure the public of fairness and transparency, he could invite international observers, and require that the DNA tests be reperformed by an independent, outside service. Should it turn out that the "guilty" workers are shown to be innocent, the PM could then claim credit for his (and his government's) determination to see that true justice is done. Granted, it would be an implausible claim, at best, but would provide the PM with a "face saving" means of extricating himself from this morass. It would mean throwing the police chief, investigators, cops on the scene, interrogators, and every other, what would have been determined at that point to be, inept individual associated with this case under the bus, but then if they are, indeed, guilty of malfeasance, then they dug their own graves.

The spotlight is on Thailand, upon the Prime Minister, and upon the Thai judicial system. The PM has an incredible opportunity to clear the decks, if, in fact, the police have bungled this case. He can, and should, get rid of anyone guilty of less than adequate performance. This would, in one move, elevate his credibility substantially, gain the trust and admiration of the Thai public for his, and his administration's, work, and for his promises to bring substantive change to Thailand and the Thai people. It would also permit him the chance to start reforming the police from the bottom up, to reform police practices, and to demonstrate that incompetence will not, under his governance, be tolerated. While it would mean that he would have to suffer some criticism for the initial failures of the police in this case, that would be minimal, as the buck would be passed, he could plausibly claim that he was misled, but also claim that he was quick to remedy the failures.

For him, it's a win-win opportunity. If it should turn out that the accused are, in fact, guilty, he wins, and get's to say, "I told you so!". If it turns out they are not guilty, he wins by demonstrating that his commitment to change is real and meaningful. I just hope he sees the advantage to taking positive action in this case, and not relying on the demonstrated failure of "business as usual".

Well written.

It really is a shame that no matter how hard we try to explain (to whoever is willing to listen) it habitually or should say unfortunately falls on deaf ears. We as an opposing party, will never be heard other than by tv members given that we just have a virtual presence on TV. Unless, of course you diversify to bigger social media sites to beget any recognition for your said literature. Here is a great place to voice your opinions out loud – so to speak - and a stepping stone to gauge your response to see whether one has hit the right cord.

I usually hit the wrong cord or so it seems. Particularly, when I get feedback from the lecherous parasites brigade in vast numbers (from time to time) seemingly having a flair at attracting them like flies round shit. In my view, cynicism masquerades as wisdom. Nonetheless, it is the farthest thing from it. God created the world in six days. On the seventh day, he rested. On the eighth day, he started getting complaints from the Thai Apologists and it hasn't stopped since.”

Cheers ………..

Edited October 9, 2014 by ScotBkk

[tirak333]

i was reading nearly all the storys about this case and i still believing as so many others do, that there is an involment of this thaipeople of the ac bar and the family of the owner (mafia). i also think that police got lots of money from this people. i saw one photo where the corps of mr. miller was still on the beach and and the guy of ac bar is standing by. what did this guy doing at the place of the crime early in the morning? why should he be around there? this person working in a bar, is he always up this early in the morning? and why didnt he give an DNA sample very first time when he was asked for ? and i also think that this uk guy who was working with them and then was running away, got very scared for a big reason.

(sorry my english is not very good) i never saw anybody mention this guy from ac bar was seen on one photo while the corps of mr. miller was still there, am i the only one saw this photo?

[littlebw]

read all the posts on here, you are way, way behind

a lot of catching up to do

i was reading nearly all the storys about this case and i still believing as so many others do, that there is an involment of this thaipeople of the ac bar and the family of the owner (mafia). i also think that police got lots of money from this people. i saw one photo where the corps of mr. miller was still on the beach and and the guy of ac bar is standing by. what did this guy doing at the place of the crime early in the morning? why should he be around there? this person working in a bar, is he always up this early in the morning? and why didnt he give an DNA sample very first time when he was asked for ? and i also think that this uk guy who was working with them and then was running away, got very scared for a big reason.

(sorry my english is not very good) i never saw anybody mention this guy from ac bar was seen on one photo while the corps of mr. miller was still there, am i the only one saw this photo?

[changnaam]

read all the posts on here, you are way, way behind

a lot of catching up to do

i was reading nearly all the storys about this case and i still believing as so many others do, that there is an involment of this thaipeople of the ac bar and the family of the owner (mafia). i also think that police got lots of money from this people. i saw one photo where the corps of mr. miller was still on the beach and and the guy of ac bar is standing by. what did this guy doing at the place of the crime early in the morning? why should he be around there? this person working in a bar, is he always up this early in the morning? and why didnt he give an DNA sample very first time when he was asked for ? and i also think that this uk guy who was working with them and then was running away, got very scared for a big reason.

(sorry my english is not very good) i never saw anybody mention this guy from ac bar was seen on one photo while the corps of mr. miller was still there, am i the only one saw this photo?

I would go easy on the new member, obviously a new Thai member.

Good on them for joining an expat forum, if you give them some support we may get more information from a Thai perspective, and also more Thai people will understand the need for justice from a foreign point of view.

[changnaam]

read all the posts on here, you are way, way behind

a lot of catching up to do

i was reading nearly all the storys about this case and i still believing as so many others do, that there is an involment of this thaipeople of the ac bar and the family of the owner (mafia). i also think that police got lots of money from this people. i saw one photo where the corps of mr. miller was still on the beach and and the guy of ac bar is standing by. what did this guy doing at the place of the crime early in the morning? why should he be around there? this person working in a bar, is he always up this early in the morning? and why didnt he give an DNA sample very first time when he was asked for ? and i also think that this uk guy who was working with them and then was running away, got very scared for a big reason.

(sorry my english is not very good) i never saw anybody mention this guy from ac bar was seen on one photo while the corps of mr. miller was still there, am i the only one saw this photo?

I would go easy on the new member, obviously a new Thai member.

Good on them for joining an expat forum, if you give them some support we may get more information from a Thai perspective, and also more Thai people will understand the need for justice from a foreign point of view.

Sorry, read again, maybe not "obviously" Thai, but could well be. Thai or not they should be welcomed for trying to be constructive.

[Suriya4]

AI calls will anger the parents of the two British.

No respect at all.

[transam]

AI calls will anger the parents of the two British.

No respect at all.

Why....?

[wabothai]

Now it is the RTP against the rest of the world.

Same same soccer match Germany against Thailand.

You want to bet?

[wabothai]

Now it is the RTP against the rest of the world.

Same same soccer match Germany against Thailand.

You want to bet?

[TTom911]

I don't think McAnna is paranoid here, this Telegraph article sounds pretty believable:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11113268/Terrified-Briton-flees-Thai-island-after-mafia-death-threat.html

[wabothai]

Thank you, investigate the hell out of them !!!

[muffy]

1. The police did a great job and solved this very quickly.

[wackybacky]

I have to echo the few comments pointing out that there may be a nasty accident (or suicide) befalling one (or more) of the (so called) suspects. I just can't see how the RTP are going to get this put to bed without anything else but the silencing of 'suspects'.

It has been sitting in the back of my mind for days now since this so called investigation has been pulled apart brick by brick. Or if anything, 'falling down' under it's own lack of solid foundations.

Don't be surprised to be reading about something like this in the future, especially if those in charge (and actively involved) with this 'investigation' find themselves backed into a corner and these suspects are pushing them there.

Edited October 9, 2014 by wackybacky

[TTom911]

I have to echo the few comments pointing out that there may be a nasty accident (or suicide) befalling one (or more) of the (so called) suspects. I just can't see how the RTP are going to get this put to bed without anything else but the silencing of 'suspects'.

It has been sitting in the back of my mind for days now since this so called investigation has been pulled apart brick by brick. Or if anything, 'falling down' under it's own lack of solid foundations.

Don't be surprised to be reading about something like this in the future, especially if those in charge (and actively involved) with this 'investigation' find themselves backed into a corner and these suspects are pushing them there.

The only thing that MAY help them is fierce, harsh public spotlight, and even that may not be enough to protect them. But without objective and professional support they, and probably their families back home, will surely not stand the slightest chance. Let's hope for the best.....

[ianf]

Welcome Amnesty!

Shine a bright light on the corrupt thugs!

Well Amnesty International. It's about time you did something realistic about Thailand.+ The problem with Amnesty and like-minded organizations is that they truly do not understand how some of these countries work. In this case, and we have seen it in Thailand many times, the police do not want the loss of face in not being able to solve a crime. Their approach to this one has been oft repeated in the past. It is far easier to stitch up the poor Burmese (who are regarded in Thailand as not much better than vermin) than to solve the crime properly. Amnesty for their part put out a truly appalling report about the coup recently that carried hardly a grain of truth. It was influenced by the same people who support Khun T. They lost my and many people's respect over that. I think they are now trying to claw something back with this call for an investigation. I wish Amnesty would wake up and actually understand what is going on here. And just in case you ask me what I know about Amnesty: 1) I was employed by them in the 1970s and 2) I was a contributing member for many many years. Not now though.

Back to the way the police work here. This investigation was a prime example of their modus operandii. The sad thing about the police here is that they find it impossible to believe that they have done anything wrong or that they are defeated or that they have fingered the wrong person. They are, as a whole, arrogant, self-seeking and untruthful. They are not responsible to anyone else but themselves. Given an opportunity on the world stage to show how successful they are, they will seize it with both hands - and that is what we have seen here. Unfortunately, as someone has already stated, in these days of powerful social media their room for maneuvre becomes diminished. But they fail to see what fools they are making of themselves. Sadly General Prayuth has also failed to see how they have behaved in this instance and I hope this episode opens his eyes and shows him what a huge task he has if he wishes to change the Thai mindset. I would say categorically that the Burmese kids did not commit this ghastly crime and I would hazard a good guess that the police know exactly who did but will not act on their information.

[ScotBkk]

AI calls will anger the parents of the two British.

No respect at all.

Why....?

Cause he's a 100% Prick