Koh Tao murder report: Prosecutors seek changes

[7Heaven]

I still don't understand why they would not just leave KT and get treatment in koh samui then?

I read you post history and looks like you live on Koh samui and if thats the fact you should know the answer to that question

[Mackie]

Because they are scared of local repercussions. I saw this first hand on two occasions on the other coast, neither went to the police. Left the island in shame, and scarred for life. Good enough for you?

Don't get me wrong, I witnessed quite few times that our western righteous girls engaged in sex with more than one Thai partner happily at those crazy parties fueled by the ludicrous amount of alcohol and all sorts of drugs. No one raped them, they willingly played with their newly acquired toys. I talk about Koh Samed.

[changnaam]

And before you ask, one was sleeping in her room, the other walking on the beach, neither were "asking for it"

meaning?

"Meaning" if I really need to spell it out to you, they were not putting themselves in a position where they could be taken advantage of. The girl on the beach was in a well lit area with many people around, she was dragged away.

Answer your question?

[changnaam]

Because they are scared of local repercussions. I saw this first hand on two occasions on the other coast, neither went to the police. Left the island in shame, and scarred for life. Good enough for you?

Don't get me wrong, I witnessed quite few times that our western righteous girls engaged in sex with more than one Thai partner happily at those crazy parties fueled by the ludicrous amount of alcohol and all sorts of drugs. No one raped them, they willingly played with their newly acquired toys. I talk about Koh Samed.

Yeah, agree that is the norm, but talking here about extremes.

[englishoak]

Because they are scared of local repercussions. I saw this first hand on two occasions on the other coast, neither went to the police. Left the island in shame, and scarred for life. Good enough for you?

Don't get me wrong, I witnessed quite few times that our western righteous girls engaged in sex with more than one Thai partner happily at those crazy parties fueled by the ludicrous amount of alcohol and all sorts of drugs. No one raped them, they willingly played with their newly acquired toys. I talk about Koh Samed.

There are both consenting sex and rape going on at these places all the time. It has always been the way and no most rapes are never reported and those that are are nearly always not followed up when the victims leave.

We all know this as a fact unfortunately.

[fayou]

Because they are scared of local repercussions. I saw this first hand on two occasions on the other coast, neither went to the police. Left the island in shame, and scarred for life. Good enough for you?

Don't get me wrong, I witnessed quite few times that our western righteous girls engaged in sex with more than one Thai partner happily at those crazy parties fueled by the ludicrous amount of alcohol and all sorts of drugs. No one raped them, they willingly played with their newly acquired toys. I talk about Koh Samed.

Yeah, agree that is the norm, but talking here about extremes.

And we talk about Koh Tao! I believe it's a different story.

[wackybacky]

Even if it wan't, the two suspects readily admit their guilt so it would not be difficult to have them explain themselves to a Native speaker/interpreter.

how they did it, the way they did it, who they did it with, and why they did it, does not alter the fact that they still claim that they did it, so they are guilty regardless of how sweet people want to make it seem, if somebody rapes and kills a person, would it make a difference if they said please first, they are guilty and they do not deny that, so lets stop worrying about the minor details, like I killed him with a stick, but it was not that stick, etc etc

If you insist on joining the debate, might I suggest you keep abreast of the current status of events.

Their 'so called' confessions have now been officially retracted, as they were extracted (as many of us had already suspected) under extreme duress such as beatings, scaldings and threat of electrocution.

So if a forced confession under torture is classified by yourself as being 'guilty'... Then the knowledge that said confessions were beaten out of them (or into them) must by default make them 'not guilty' under your very reasoning.

So the photos of the two on the beach in helmets and vests was taken within 1-2 days of their confession?

Typically a bruise gets more discolored after 24-24 hours, yet there are no visible bruises at all on either man. Not even one. Not to say they weren't roughed up but if they suffered "extreme duress" and "torture" I do wish there was some small evidence of corroboration,

Erm...... Even the RTP know not to smack them all over the face and lower arms.

Because obviously they are going to be paraded all over Thai TV and the whole world, internet etc.

Are you trying to say the Burmese lawyer is lying?... I am sure they have pictures of this, but will be held back in the event of a court case emerging to ultimately refute RTP claims that there was no mistreatment, and completely remove the 'so called confessions' which will probably end in the defence winning the case out of hand.

Do you think the Burmese lawyer is as stupid as the RTP to upload these pictures onto his facebook page or hand them to the media????

Not all nations are as stupid as Thais.

Edited to add.... Sorry, I don't want to appear to saying that all Thais are stupid, that is outrageous and stupid... But the Thais involved in this case are seriously stupid.... that much is evident from this entire charade.

Edited October 9, 2014 by wackybacky

[changnaam]

Because they are scared of local repercussions. I saw this first hand on two occasions on the other coast, neither went to the police. Left the island in shame, and scarred for life. Good enough for you?

Don't get me wrong, I witnessed quite few times that our western righteous girls engaged in sex with more than one Thai partner happily at those crazy parties fueled by the ludicrous amount of alcohol and all sorts of drugs. No one raped them, they willingly played with their newly acquired toys. I talk about Koh Samed.

Yeah, agree that is the norm, but talking here about extremes.

And we talk about Koh Tao! I believe it's a different story.

In context, it is all the same story. Read back.

[changnaam]

Back on topic,

Prosecutors have passed the file back. Not enough evidence? Evidence is useless?

This is positive news.

[Chutney]

I've taken great care not to see any of the insensitive postings of David and Hannahs brutalised and broken bodies.

TV mods have done their best to keep that stuff off here. Perhaps 'some' of you need to read the words of Hannahs parents on the subject:

The family also asked for privacy as they prepare for Miss Witheridge's funeral which will take place in Hemsby on Friday.

"Due to the nature of her passing, our beautiful girl has had little privacy. Therefore, we would like to take this opportunity to ask that Hannah be allowed a well-deserved day of privacy on Friday whilst we join her many friends in a celebration of her life.

Our family have been further traumatised by reports that there are numerous unnecessary and senseless photographs circulating across the Internet. We beg that Hannah and David are afforded privacy and dignity through the removal of these pointless and insensitive reminders."

– Hannah Witheridge's parents

[lucpez]

Even if it wan't, the two suspects readily admit their guilt so it would not be difficult to have them explain themselves to a Native speaker/interpreter.

how they did it, the way they did it, who they did it with, and why they did it, does not alter the fact that they still claim that they did it, so they are guilty regardless of how sweet people want to make it seem, if somebody rapes and kills a person, would it make a difference if they said please first, they are guilty and they do not deny that, so lets stop worrying about the minor details, like I killed him with a stick, but it was not that stick, etc etc

If you insist on joining the debate, might I suggest you keep abreast of the current status of events.

Their 'so called' confessions have now been officially retracted, as they were extracted (as many of us had already suspected) under extreme duress such as beatings, scaldings and threat of electrocution.

So if a forced confession under torture is classified by yourself as being 'guilty'... Then the knowledge that said confessions were beaten out of them (or into them) must by default make them 'not guilty' under your very reasoning.

So the photos of the two on the beach in helmets and vests was taken within 1-2 days of their confession?

Typically a bruise gets more discolored after 24-24 hours, yet there are no visible bruises at all on either man. Not even one. Not to say they weren't roughed up but if they suffered "extreme duress" and "torture" I do wish there was some small evidence of corroboration,

You have a point. But most likely they were hit in not exposed body parts such as the back or the chest, certainly not in the face.

[fayou]

Back on topic,

Prosecutors have passed the file back. Not enough evidence? Evidence is useless?

This is positive news.

Edited October 9, 2014 by fayou

[seahorse]

So the photos of the two on the beach in helmets and vests was taken within 1-2 days of their confession?

Typically a bruise gets more discolored after 24-24 hours, yet there are no visible bruises at all on either man. Not even one. Not to say they weren't roughed up but if they suffered "extreme duress" and "torture" I do wish there was some small evidence of corroboration,

There is corroboration in the opening post of this thread. Perhaps you should read about this subject before posting?

Parinya also said a Rohingya interpreter was used during the police interrogation of the two suspects, who are from Rakhine state, who allegedly bore a grudge against Rohingya people, apart from their different languages.

He added that both suspects bore wounds as a result of what they claimed was "the police not treating them properly".

[ClutchClark]

So the photos of the two on the beach in helmets and vests was taken within 1-2 days of their confession?

Typically a bruise gets more discolored after 24-24 hours, yet there are no visible bruises at all on either man. Not even one. Not to say they weren't roughed up but if they suffered "extreme duress" and "torture" I do wish there was some small evidence of corroboration,

There is corroboration in the opening post of this thread. Perhaps you should read about this subject before posting?

Parinya also said a Rohingya interpreter was used during the police interrogation of the two suspects, who are from Rakhine state, who allegedly bore a grudge against Rohingya people, apart from their different languages.

He added that both suspects bore wounds as a result of what they claimed was "the police not treating them properly".

Perhaps English isn't your first language so I forgive your transgressions but corroboration would be visible bruising to support their claim of abuse. You see, in a court or when assigning guilt, a verbal accusation receives far more credibility when it can be supported by evidence such as a photo--and a claim receives less credibility in the absence of such--or in this case, when the photo of the two of them provides no indication of extreme abuse.

Now before you get all emotional, I agree it is likely they got knocked around a bit but "extreme abuse" would appear to be an exaggeration.

Cheers

Edited October 9, 2014 by ClutchClark

[ClutchClark]

how they did it, the way they did it, who they did it with, and why they did it, does not alter the fact that they still claim that they did it, so they are guilty regardless of how sweet people want to make it seem, if somebody rapes and kills a person, would it make a difference if they said please first, they are guilty and they do not deny that, so lets stop worrying about the minor details, like I killed him with a stick, but it was not that stick, etc etc

If you insist on joining the debate, might I suggest you keep abreast of the current status of events.

Their 'so called' confessions have now been officially retracted, as they were extracted (as many of us had already suspected) under extreme duress such as beatings, scaldings and threat of electrocution.

So if a forced confession under torture is classified by yourself as being 'guilty'... Then the knowledge that said confessions were beaten out of them (or into them) must by default make them 'not guilty' under your very reasoning.

So the photos of the two on the beach in helmets and vests was taken within 1-2 days of their confession?

Typically a bruise gets more discolored after 24-24 hours, yet there are no visible bruises at all on either man. Not even one. Not to say they weren't roughed up but if they suffered "extreme duress" and "torture" I do wish there was some small evidence of corroboration,

You have a point. But most likely they were hit in not exposed body parts such as the back or the chest, certainly not in the face.

Certainly but a scalding (as per wackybacky) would leave them in excruciating pain even 48 hours later, even if on a hidden part of the body.

Edited October 9, 2014 by ClutchClark

[Krenjai]

http://i2.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article4303620.ece/alternates/s1023/Sean-McAnna.jpg

Look at that blood on his guitar? Why didn't he wash it off? There are more photos like this. He also had a deep injury on his right forearm, scratches to his left wrist and more......

I bet you this is his own blood which did not happen from a motorbike accident but happened during a fight with Mon & Co. trying to safe David who was getting killed. They let him off the hook at that moment (because they knew him & worked in AC bar) but later on changed their mind that it was better to get rid of him.

Sean knows and he posted it on FB trying to save his own life as he knew his last hours had arrived. Who did interview this guy and why was he allowed to leave Thailand?

Edited October 9, 2014 by Krenjai

[ClutchClark]

how they did it, the way they did it, who they did it with, and why they did it, does not alter the fact that they still claim that they did it, so they are guilty regardless of how sweet people want to make it seem, if somebody rapes and kills a person, would it make a difference if they said please first, they are guilty and they do not deny that, so lets stop worrying about the minor details, like I killed him with a stick, but it was not that stick, etc etc

If you insist on joining the debate, might I suggest you keep abreast of the current status of events.

Their 'so called' confessions have now been officially retracted, as they were extracted (as many of us had already suspected) under extreme duress such as beatings, scaldings and threat of electrocution.

So if a forced confession under torture is classified by yourself as being 'guilty'... Then the knowledge that said confessions were beaten out of them (or into them) must by default make them 'not guilty' under your very reasoning.

So the photos of the two on the beach in helmets and vests was taken within 1-2 days of their confession?

Typically a bruise gets more discolored after 24-24 hours, yet there are no visible bruises at all on either man. Not even one. Not to say they weren't roughed up but if they suffered "extreme duress" and "torture" I do wish there was some small evidence of corroboration,

Erm...... Even the RTP know not to smack them all over the face and lower arms.

Because obviously they are going to be paraded all over Thai TV and the whole world, internet etc.

Are you trying to say the Burmese lawyer is lying?... I am sure they have pictures of this, but will be held back in the event of a court case emerging to ultimately refute RTP claims that there was no mistreatment, and completely remove the 'so called confessions' which will probably end in the defence winning the case out of hand.

Do you think the Burmese lawyer is as stupid as the RTP to upload these pictures onto his facebook page or hand them to the media????

God forbid, I would never suggest a lawyer might lie.

(BTW, that was sarcasm)

It would be typical practice in even Western societies for an attorney to present evidence that their client is being abused by law enforcement if the alternative was to allow their client to be returned to the very officials responsible since the next beating could result in their clients death. In fact, some might say such an attorney would be failing to do his job.

But my point was not to suggest no strongarm tactic was used but rather than the claims of "extreme abuse" and "scalding" were emotional exaggerations made by emotional members of TV who wish to embellish their cause at the expense of fact.

[ClutchClark]

Because they are scared of local repercussions. I saw this first hand on two occasions on the other coast, neither went to the police. Left the island in shame, and scarred for life. Good enough for you?

Don't get me wrong, I witnessed quite few times that our western righteous girls engaged in sex with more than one Thai partner happily at those crazy parties fueled by the ludicrous amount of alcohol and all sorts of drugs. No one raped them, they willingly played with their newly acquired toys. I talk about Koh Samed.

There are both consenting sex and rape going on at these places all the time. It has always been the way and no most rapes are never reported and those that are are nearly always not followed up when the victims leave.

We all know this as a fact unfortunately.

In this day of social media, I am slightly surprised brutal, drugged gang sexual assaults by Mon and/or his family, as has been suggested by certain members right in this thread would not have been publicized by atleast one of the victims. Particularly when social media allows for a level of anonymity and that such victims would have some desire to warn off other women from the same risk.

[englishoak]

Because they are scared of local repercussions. I saw this first hand on two occasions on the other coast, neither went to the police. Left the island in shame, and scarred for life. Good enough for you?

Don't get me wrong, I witnessed quite few times that our western righteous girls engaged in sex with more than one Thai partner happily at those crazy parties fueled by the ludicrous amount of alcohol and all sorts of drugs. No one raped them, they willingly played with their newly acquired toys. I talk about Koh Samed.

There are both consenting sex and rape going on at these places all the time. It has always been the way and no most rapes are never reported and those that are are nearly always not followed up when the victims leave.

We all know this as a fact unfortunately.

In this day of social media, I am slightly surprised brutal, drugged gang sexual assaults by Mon and/or his family, as has been suggested by certain members right in this thread would not have been publicized by atleast one of the victims. Particularly when social media allows for a level of anonymity and that such victims would have some desire to warn off other women from the same risk.

Its early days yet for the whole world to be reading things in detail, besides I expect the last thing youd be doing is reading a Thai forum or having anything to do with the place if you didnt have to.

If things take a turn and people feel safe enough to speak then things might come to light. Even then Its no small thing to challenge a family with serious financial backing and connections

[jdinasia]

The Thai so called human rights commissioner should be sacked on the spot.

Absolutely disgusting abuse of the position.

Why what happened ?

Releasing a statement claiming the two Burmese men said they were guilty.

Well it turns out they are saying nothing of the sort.

Really have to say its beyond farcical.

Gets hard to remember who said what, a lot of conflicting information. Personally I would like to see Amnesty International push a little harder given their global status and direct links to the UN.

The side which is supposed to push the hardest in this particular case is the British government. What kind of a message they are sending to other British nationals around the globe? It appears that the message is we don't give flying monkeys what happens to all of you.

Anyway has anyone mentioned it before that those two accused might have actually witnessed the crime and people who committed it? Just saying.

Or the 2 Burmese men simply are actually guilty??

[jdinasia]

Back on topic,

Prosecutors have passed the file back. Not enough evidence? Evidence is useless?

This is positive news.

Perhaps you should read the article.

[englishoak]

The Thai so called human rights commissioner should be sacked on the spot.

Absolutely disgusting abuse of the position.

Why what happened ?

Releasing a statement claiming the two Burmese men said they were guilty.

Well it turns out they are saying nothing of the sort.

Really have to say its beyond farcical.

Gets hard to remember who said what, a lot of conflicting information. Personally I would like to see Amnesty International push a little harder given their global status and direct links to the UN.

The side which is supposed to push the hardest in this particular case is the British government. What kind of a message they are sending to other British nationals around the globe? It appears that the message is we don't give flying monkeys what happens to all of you.

Anyway has anyone mentioned it before that those two accused might have actually witnessed the crime and people who committed it? Just saying.

Or the 2 Burmese men simply are actually guilty??

Or they arnt guilty OR there are others involved and not just them ... why didnt you include that ?

[jdinasia]

The Thai so called human rights commissioner should be sacked on the spot.

Absolutely disgusting abuse of the position.

Why what happened ?

Releasing a statement claiming the two Burmese men said they were guilty.

Well it turns out they are saying nothing of the sort.

Really have to say its beyond farcical.

Gets hard to remember who said what, a lot of conflicting information. Personally I would like to see Amnesty International push a little harder given their global status and direct links to the UN.

The side which is supposed to push the hardest in this particular case is the British government. What kind of a message they are sending to other British nationals around the globe? It appears that the message is we don't give flying monkeys what happens to all of you.

Anyway has anyone mentioned it before that those two accused might have actually witnessed the crime and people who committed it? Just saying.

Or the 2 Burmese men simply are actually guilty??

Or they arnt guilty OR there are others involved and not just them ... why didnt you include that ?

Because the post I was replying to suggested that. Why else would the British government need to be involved? His post does mention "witnessed the crime and..."

Trials are where guilt is determined... Not social media.

[DekDoi]

http://i2.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article4303620.ece/alternates/s1023/Sean-McAnna.jpg

Look at that blood on his guitar? Why didn't he wash it off? There are more photos like this. He also had a deep injury on his right forearm, scratches to his left wrist and more......

I bet you this is his own blood which did not happen from a motorbike accident but happened during a fight with Mon & Co. trying to safe David who was getting killed. They let him off the hook at that moment (because they knew him & worked in AC bar) but later on changed their mind that it was better to get rid of him.

Sean knows and he posted it on FB trying to save his own life as he knew his last hours had arrived. Who did interview this guy and why was he allowed to leave Thailand?

i'm more inclined to believe Sean was involved in the attack.

He may have held David as he was assaulted, if Sean had David in a headlock while another assailant stabbed him with a push knife Sean's wounds would be a result of the struggle.

Sean was let free after the murders because he helped the 'family' - next morning after son had left the island, they changed their mind - Sean was threatened, and then quickly left island with the international media.,.

[Chutney]

http://i2.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article4303620.ece/alternates/s1023/Sean-McAnna.jpg

Look at that blood on his guitar? Why didn't he wash it off? There are more photos like this. He also had a deep injury on his right forearm, scratches to his left wrist and more......

I bet you this is his own blood which did not happen from a motorbike accident but happened during a fight with Mon & Co. trying to safe David who was getting killed. They let him off the hook at that moment (because they knew him & worked in AC bar) but later on changed their mind that it was better to get rid of him.

Sean knows and he posted it on FB trying to save his own life as he knew his last hours had arrived. Who did interview this guy and why was he allowed to leave Thailand?

i'm more inclined to believe Sean was involved in the attack.

He may have held David as he was assaulted, if Sean had David in a headlock while another assailant stabbed him with a push knife Sean's wounds would be a result of the struggle.

Sean was let free after the murders because he helped the 'family' - next morning after son had left the island, they changed their mind - Sean was threatened, and then quickly left island with the international media.,.

Well I've seen some utter nonsense posted on here and elsewhere about this hideous crime but you win. Stupid beyond belief.

Sean MCanna is one big wet drip of a quivering sop. Whatever else happened he was not holding anyone in a headlock as they were being brutally murdered. He would have been a fainting shaking mess.

Go and do some research on the widely available mainstream media videos and other reports before posting such tripe.

[DekDoi]

http://i2.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article4303620.ece/alternates/s1023/Sean-McAnna.jpg

Look at that blood on his guitar? Why didn't he wash it off? There are more photos like this. He also had a deep injury on his right forearm, scratches to his left wrist and more......

I bet you this is his own blood which did not happen from a motorbike accident but happened during a fight with Mon & Co. trying to safe David who was getting killed. They let him off the hook at that moment (because they knew him & worked in AC bar) but later on changed their mind that it was better to get rid of him.

Sean knows and he posted it on FB trying to save his own life as he knew his last hours had arrived. Who did interview this guy and why was he allowed to leave Thailand?

i'm more inclined to believe Sean was involved in the attack.

He may have held David as he was assaulted, if Sean had David in a headlock while another assailant stabbed him with a push knife Sean's wounds would be a result of the struggle.

Sean was let free after the murders because he helped the 'family' - next morning after son had left the island, they changed their mind - Sean was threatened, and then quickly left island with the international media.,.

Well I've seen some utter nonsense posted on here and elsewhere about this hideous crime but you win. Stupid beyond belief.

Sean MCanna is one big wet drip of a quivering sop. Whatever else happened he was not holding anyone in a headlock as they were being brutally murdered. He would have been a fainting shaking mess.

Go and do some research on the widely available mainstream media videos and other reports before posting such tripe.

So how did he get a stab wound on the middle of his arm?

[englishoak]

Sean Hayes McAnna says at 0:01:

To everyone commenting. I never said I knew the killers. I said that if I died that night it was the guy from in touch who "did it". anybody with half a brain knows it would always be blamed on Burmese. I'm gutted for everyone involved, but there's really nothing I can do. I'm sorry the newspapers lied to you. Believe me, they lied about a lot of things. They just like a story.

scroll down to that time in the comments

https://soundcloud.c...anmcanna/johnny

Edited by englishoak, A minute ago.

[ClutchClark]

Sean Hayes McAnna says at 0:01:

To everyone commenting. I never said I knew the killers. I said that if I died that night it was the guy from in touch who "did it". anybody with half a brain knows it would always be blamed on Burmese. I'm gutted for everyone involved, but there's really nothing I can do. I'm sorry the newspapers lied to you. Believe me, they lied about a lot of things. They just like a story.

scroll down to that time in the comments

https://soundcloud.c...anmcanna/johnny

Edited by englishoak, A minute ago.

Oak, thanks for the post. Below not directed at you.

Has anyone noticed its always those guys that use the expression "half a brain" that are most likely to suffer from the condition?

Edited October 9, 2014 by ClutchClark

[Lozza]

Not making any conclusions, but where does Sean McAnna fit in all of this? Is anything he said true? If not, why did he do that? 15 minutes of fame seems a long shot, but stranger things have happened.

Good question. Nobody is here to accuse him of anything, but ask him to tell the whole world the truth, the real truth . Everybody wants to hear his story what happened that night. People believe he must know something. But until now no statement from Sean has been made.

If he played a role in the gang rape and/or murder, then I doubt he is going to say anything.

I doubt we'll hear anything from sean he is way too deep into this. His silence is deafening particularly from an extrovert.

Who is the owner of intouch bar, is that mon? thought he was AC bar.

Sean said he never accused mon of the murder but said if HE went missing it would be the owner of intouch bar.

How did the police happen to come upon Saw and Win as the culprits. This to me is the hardest piece in the puzzle in this sorry saga.

[ClutchClark]

Not making any conclusions, but where does Sean McAnna fit in all of this? Is anything he said true? If not, why did he do that? 15 minutes of fame seems a long shot, but stranger things have happened.

Good question. Nobody is here to accuse him of anything, but ask him to tell the whole world the truth, the real truth . Everybody wants to hear his story what happened that night. People believe he must know something. But until now no statement from Sean has been made.

If he played a role in the gang rape and/or murder, then I doubt he is going to say anything.

I doubt we'll hear anything from sean he is way too deep into this. His silence is deafening particularly from an extrovert.

Who is the owner of intouch bar, is that mon? thought he was AC bar.

Sean said he never accused mon of the murder but said if HE went missing it would be the owner of intouch bar.

How did the police happen to come upon Saw and Win as the culprits. This to me is the hardest piece in the puzzle in this sorry saga.

How did the police discover Saw & Win?

As a product od their investigative effort.

They were able to place these two men and possibly a third man on that section of beach within hours of the murder. That makes them a suspect in any country and absent any conflicting evidence such as cctv or witness statements, it keeps them a suspect. Before the emotional crowd goes berserk, I am not saying guilty. I am saying suspect. They are at minimum suspects in a brutal sexual assault and homicide.

Ofcourse, all of this is 100% dependent on news reports, which are what most all of us here have access to (except for a few posters who pretend they are Mi6 type guys).