Koh Tao murder report: Prosecutors seek changes

[boomerangutang]

Was the interrogation taped?

Even if it wan't, the two suspects readily admit their guilt so it would not be difficult to have them explain themselves to a Native speaker/interpreter.

I could get you to 'readily admit' any darned thing. Just come on over to my house, sit on a wooden seat with your chestnuts hanging down, and let me mess around with two wires coming out of a wall socket.

If the interrogation was taped or videoed, it's highly doubtful anyone outside of police insiders will hear/see it. They're not going to continue to shoot themselves in the feet are they? In a country with a fair justice system, those tapes (or at least the transcripts) of the interview could be subpoenaed, but in Thailand: not. There are still some 600 lb gorillas sitting in the middle of the room which Thai officialdom refuse to notice:

>>> DNA trail, looked at by non-Thai experts

>>> Headman's son and brother, plus cop friends as suspects (currently, none are suspects)

>>> murder weapons. Cops have been wrong, wrong, and wrong again.

>>> scenario in AC bar prior to crime.

>>> crime history and character assessments of suspects, including those connected to headman.

As for unused condom and cig butt: those are diversionary items and probably have no real bearing on the case. Even the forced confession talk is somewhat diversionary, as everyone with a brain can surmise that happened. Yet it takes attention away from the issues outlined above.

[bertty]

The only time these boys have spoken to their own people they denied all involvement.

"Meanwhile, the Myanmar embassy-appointed lawyer for the two men - identified by the Democratic Voice of Burma website as Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun - have told two different media outlets that the suspects confessed to him that they killed the pair - albeit unintentionally and while drunk."

The only time these boys have spoken to their own people they denied all involvement.

[SICHONSTEVE]

not sure, what everyone is waffling about those two clowns.

- they repeatedly confessed to the crime

- they confessed to their lawyer having raped the victim

- they were at the crime scene around the time (they said so, 3rd man=friend said so, know when they came back)

- if anything, then the CCTV-runner looks like one of them (skinny migrant bar worker)

- they never claimed torture, not even to their lawyer "not treated well" (only their friends believed of torture)

- if anyone, then they blamed the pancake man of mistreating - who then further attended every HR-meeting

is everyone around this case retarded ?

exactly!!!

I rest my case.

But unless you can show film of them raping and bludgeoning them to death close up where they smile at the cameras and run off after I'm afraid that they will still come out with the same nonsense. They are like scratched records repeating themselves

[GAZZPA]

Was the interrogation taped?

Even if it wan't, the two suspects readily admit their guilt so it would not be difficult to have them explain themselves to a Native speaker/interpreter.

Jesus wept.

Jesus may have wept but thats about all he did. He sure never lifted a hand to help the innocent on that beach.

Stupid comment bashing Christianity again. Its called free will, look it up and try and learn a bit more before making such naive comments.

[JLCrab]

Still waiting!!!

Andrew Drummond - Koh Tao update relates the latest interview wed Oct 8th with the third Burmese man. I suggest every poster on this thread reads it before commenting or rehashing old news.

I did. According to that story the guy went home from the beach at 1 AM and knows nothing of the actual incident.

[Artisi]

Wow a very very interesting report. Nobody saw the kid at uni till the 16th and he had scratches on his arm and neck..... If that's true I don't have words to describe the people from the bottom to the top trying to cover this up. Its just unfathomable... Let's get a journalist to the uni to start investigating these claims to c if anyone can back up this story... Come on you uni students.. Did u see this kid with scratches on his neck and arms. Speak up, its your chance to get rid of the rotten core of this country or at least the start. DNA would be left under Hanna's finger nails. . This needs some very serious looking into....

My missus figures at least ฿ 25 Million has changed hands already and ownership or interests in one or more businesses.

where did she get this figure from?

Gossip and wishful thinking - but ..............

[joebrown]

Sperm found on the outside of condoms?

Maybe someone put the condom on inside-out. It was dark after all!

[JLCrab]

I have no idea what happened. I was not there. Some explanations take one sentence. Other explanations take multiple paragraphs and laborious constructions.

[Artisi]

Jesus wept.

Jesus may have wept but thats about all he did. He sure never lifted a hand to help the innocent on that beach.

Wonder how Jesus found out about the murders? TV?

Yep, long time member.

[GAZZPA]

"However, both suspects insisted [to me] that they had committed the crimes," said the human-rights commissioner.

Just asking but..........does that statement not sound really strange to you ? I mean insisted ?

"He said they told him they had not used condoms while sexually violating the female victim, contrary to earlier police statements that sperm carrying their DNA was found on the outside of condoms".

Classic!!!! Come on then people, now tell mw that these two Burmese ARE NOT rapists.

Please read this statement of fact several times if you have to - it basically say's that the police evidence is wrong as "they didn't use condoms when they raped her!!!!.

Still think that they are innocent little defenceless darlings???????????

We win the day and are fully vindicated in our beliefs!!! Well done TJT and any others in our camp!!

Read it again fella. People are saying that the confession was "forced" out of them by the police. So, yes we all know they said they were guilty of rape and murder.

If the police evidence is right then they are contradicting evidence which could mean they are innocent.

I am not sure either way but I do believe that investigation has been a shambles and that there are some very suspicious things going on that cast a huge shadow over their guilt.

[bertty]

not sure, what everyone is waffling about those two clowns.

- they repeatedly confessed to the crime

- they confessed to their lawyer having raped the victim

- they were at the crime scene around the time (they said so, 3rd man=friend said so, know when they came back)

- if anything, then the CCTV-runner looks like one of them (skinny migrant bar worker)

- they never claimed torture, not even to their lawyer "not treated well" (only their friends believed of torture)

- if anyone, then they blamed the pancake man of mistreating - who then further attended every HumanRights-meeting

- we never saw a single pic of any of their torture-wounds, even though the guardian will have seen them

- newspaper should be the first to publish those torture pics, no ?

is everyone around this case retarded ?

On the retard front you score 11 out of 10. More than enough not to have to worry about the rest of us. Well done.

[geraldbradford]

is everyone around this case retarded ?

No, only you and a few other notorious RTP shiils!

[kkup]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Sperm found on the outside of condoms? alt=facepalm.gif>

Maybe someone put the condom on inside-out. It was dark after all!

Very suspicious. Reminds me of the case in Chiang mai where the police tried to get a guy to jerk off so they could plant his semen.. Sounds to me like they love a good sausage sizzle.

[Artisi]

A step in the right direction. Good to see that folks were standing up against the RTP threats towards public to not question the investigation. Talkin' about power to the people! Finally the ball is rolling, some heads will follow soon.

NOW is the time for the parents to speak up and send in a British investigation team!

To me it is utterly disturbing to see that tens of thousands of complete strangers seem to care more about finding out the truth than Hannah's and David's parents! Their silence is deafening and makes me angry! Grieving time, yes - but if I were a father of one of those kids, I would be here in Thailand by now with Interpol and would turn that cesspit of an island upside down!!!!

Think you are jumping the gun a bit re the parents, you have no idea what-so-ever to what they re doing, thinking or planning. Easy on the mangelwurzel's catweasle might be affecting your thinking.

[Lex Talionis]

The only time these boys have spoken to their own people they denied all involvement.

"Meanwhile, the Myanmar embassy-appointed lawyer for the two men - identified by the Democratic Voice of Burma website as Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun - have told two different media outlets that the suspects confessed to him that they killed the pair - albeit unintentionally and while drunk."

The only time these boys have spoken to their own people they denied all involvement.

Thanks but I heard you the first time there bird brain. Maybe you'd care to clarify what you mean by "their own people"? I'm guessing the lawyer appointed by their country's embassy to represent them does not qualify?

[JLCrab]

I followed the 1990's US investigation and failed prosecution of OJ Simpson following the murder of his wife and her friend if you really want to read about a botched case.

[kkup]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

not sure, what everyone is waffling about those two clowns.

- they repeatedly confessed to the crime

- they confessed to their lawyer having raped the victim

- they were at the crime scene around the time (they said so, 3rd man=friend said so, know when they came back)

- if anything, then the CCTV-runner looks like one of them (skinny migrant bar worker)

- they never claimed torture, not even to their lawyer "not treated well" (only their friends believed of torture)

- if anyone, then they blamed the pancake man of mistreating - who then further attended every HumanRights-meeting

- we never saw a single pic of any of their torture-wounds, even though the guardian will have seen them

- newspaper should be the first to publish those torture pics, no ?

is everyone around this case retarded ?

If you believe that then your probably the type of guy I read about in the news that got ripped off by his good girl wife.

[bertty]

The only time these boys have spoken to their own people they denied all involvement.

"Meanwhile, the Myanmar embassy-appointed lawyer for the two men - identified by the Democratic Voice of Burma website as Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun - have told two different media outlets that the suspects confessed to him that they killed the pair - albeit unintentionally and while drunk."

The only time these boys have spoken to their own people they denied all involvement.

Thanks but I heard you the first time there bird brain. Maybe you'd care to clarify what you mean by "their own people"? I'm guessing the lawyer appointed by their country's embassy to represent them does not qualify?

attorney Aung Myo Thant from the Myanmar embassy made his comments after meeting with the two suspects, Zaw Rin and Win, who Thai police say confessed to the crime.

In Myanmar media reports, the lawyer said the two men told him they only confessed because they were forced to under torture. "They told me that they were on the beach that night drinking and singing songs," he said.

"They said they didn't do it, that the Thai police [along with their Myanmar-Thai translator] beat them until they confessed to something they didn't do. They're pleading with the Myanmar government to look into the case and find out the truth. They were a really pitiful sight. Their bodies had all sorts of bruises. I have already reported all that I have seen today to my government."

So that seems to be from the Burmese media

But you have so far believed everything you have been spoon fed. What a good little boy you are. Have a sweety.

Really even a bird brain is better than no brain.

[retsdon]

Almost every criminal will deny that he committed the crime, especially after talking to a lawyer, so their denial is meaningless.

So is their confession if it was made because of being tortured

Were they being tortured when the admitted rape to their own people, INSISTING that they raped her because they were drunk????

Talking about self-implication of the highest order.

What's wrong with you people, can't you understand anything?? They have ADMITTED raping her for christ's sake, what other evidence is needed?

Wake up will you!!!

There is a reason that, going back for more than a hundred years, in countries with equitable legal systems uncorroborated confessions have been deemed to be insufficient to secure a conviction.

[stephen terry]

"However, both suspects insisted [to me] that they had committed the crimes," said the human-rights commissioner.

Just asking but..........does that statement not sound really strange to you ? I mean insisted ?

"He said they told him they had not used condoms while sexually violating the female victim, contrary to earlier police statements that sperm carrying their DNA was found on the outside of condoms".

Classic!!!! Come on then people, now tell mw that these two Burmese ARE NOT rapists.

Please read this statement of fact several times if you have to - it basically say's that the police evidence is wrong as "they didn't use condoms when they raped her!!!!.

Still think that they are innocent little defenceless darlings???????????

We win the day and are fully vindicated in our beliefs!!! Well done TJT and any others in our camp!!

Read it again fella. People are saying that the confession was "forced" out of them by the police. So, yes we all know they said they were guilty of rape and murder.

If the police evidence is right then they are contradicting evidence which could mean they are innocent.

I am not sure either way but I do believe that investigation has been a shambles and that there are some very suspicious things going on that cast a huge shadow over their guilt.

Read this carefully. There is no evidence to support the accusation that they murdered two people. There is witnessed evidence to support they were at the crime scene, and an alleged DNA match to support the rape accusation. It is conjecture to make the leap from that to the actual murders. Admission of guilt since retracted, is NOT evidence either way. I have read no RTP report that their DNA is on a murder weapon (yet), so the evidence is circumstantial at best.

For two suspects facing a lethal injection sentence, I would suggest that the evidence against them needs to be water-tight to obtain a conviction of murder. I would assume the prosecutor thinks along the same lines, that's why the 800 page report was returned to the RTP.

[Soutpeel]

"However, both suspects insisted [to me] that they had committed the crimes," said the human-rights commissioner.

Just asking but..........does that statement not sound really strange to you ? I mean insisted ?

"He said they told him they had not used condoms while sexually violating the female victim, contrary to earlier police statements that sperm carrying their DNA was found on the outside of condoms".

Classic!!!! Come on then people, now tell mw that these two Burmese ARE NOT rapists.

Please read this statement of fact several times if you have to - it basically say's that the police evidence is wrong as "they didn't use condoms when they raped her!!!!.

Still think that they are innocent little defenceless darlings???????????

We win the day and are fully vindicated in our beliefs!!! Well done TJT and any others in our camp!!

Read it again fella. People are saying that the confession was "forced" out of them by the police. So, yes we all know they said they were guilty of rape and murder.

If the police evidence is right then they are contradicting evidence which could mean they are innocent.

I am not sure either way but I do believe that investigation has been a shambles and that there are some very suspicious things going on that cast a huge shadow over their guilt.

Gazzpa, seems the TV RTP apologists PR department is getting a little hysterical this fine morning...

[SICHONSTEVE]

not sure, what everyone is waffling about those two clowns.

- they repeatedly confessed to the crime

- they confessed to their lawyer having raped the victim

- they were at the crime scene around the time (they said so, 3rd man=friend said so, know when they came back)

- if anything, then the CCTV-runner looks like one of them (skinny migrant bar worker)

- they never claimed torture, not even to their lawyer "not treated well" (only their friends believed of torture)

- if anyone, then they blamed the pancake man of mistreating - who then further attended every HR-meeting

is everyone around this case retarded ?

Most!!!

[uty6543]

Declaring ones innocence does not make one innocent.

Not sure about other countries but the US is chock full of prisoners who declare their innocence.

Not saying they did it not saying they didn't.

Only saying recanting a confession is not proof either way.

Since the possibility continues to exist that they did commit this horrendous crime, I am not going to extend my sympathy to them.

I will leave that to the posters here who really want to see a Thai convicted.

I don't want to see a Thai convicted. I want to see the guilty convicted regardless of their nationality and I hope everybody feels the same.

Edited October 9, 2014 by uty6543

[sweatalot]

He said they told him they had not used condoms while sexually violating the female victim, contrary to earlier police statements that sperm carrying their DNA was found on the outside of condoms.

If their sperm was found on the outside of the condom, it looks to me that someone used a condom after the suspects were done with the victim.

I don't understand - sperm should be inside. Or was it inside out?

[boomerangutang]

There is no doubt that the sperm of these two men was found in the vagina of the girl....

There is a lot of doubt from hundreds of thousands of people - whether the claims by the cops about Burmese suspects' semen in the victim. If you want to believe everything the cops dish out, that's your choice. To me, it stinks like a glorified frame-up.

There have been numerous requests for more professional and objective handling of the DNA trail - all falling on deaf ears of the police who desperately want all the doubters to shut up, quit prying, and respect the RTP.

[boomerangutang]

He said they told him they had not used condoms while sexually violating the female victim, contrary to earlier police statements that sperm carrying their DNA was found on the outside of condoms.

If their sperm was found on the outside of the condom, it looks to me that someone used a condom after the suspects were done with the victim.

I don't understand - sperm should be inside. Or was it inside out?

All talk of an unused condom is unimportant. It's probably a diversionary tactic by the cops, to take focus away from some of the real gaping problems in the investigation. Finding an unused condom on a beach where hundreds of young people party every night ....is that a big deal? Gimme a break.

[bertty]

He said they told him they had not used condoms while sexually violating the female victim, contrary to earlier police statements that sperm carrying their DNA was found on the outside of condoms.

If their sperm was found on the outside of the condom, it looks to me that someone used a condom after the suspects were done with the victim.

I don't understand - sperm should be inside. Or was it inside out?

Inside out upside down and round the wrong way.

[mojorison]

Wow a very very interesting report. Nobody saw the kid at uni till the 16th and he had scratches on his arm and neck..... If that's true I don't have words to describe the people from the bottom to the top trying to cover this up. Its just unfathomable... Let's get a journalist to the uni to start investigating these claims to c if anyone can back up this story... Come on you uni students.. Did u see this kid with scratches on his neck and arms. Speak up, its your chance to get rid of the rotten core of this country or at least the start. DNA would be left under Hanna's finger nails. . This needs some very serious looking into....

My missus figures at least ฿ 25 Million has changed hands already and ownership or interests in one or more businesses.

where did she get this figure from?

Sounds too low from our experience and local knowledge. Closer to 100 mil. "we" reckon... (And the tap doesn't turn off... every so often when the desire arises the boys will be asking for top ups.) For ever. Amen.

[JLCrab]

"However, both suspects insisted [to me] that they had committed the crimes," said the human-rights commissioner.

Just asking but..........does that statement not sound really strange to you ? I mean insisted ?

"He said they told him they had not used condoms while sexually violating the female victim, contrary to earlier police statements that sperm carrying their DNA was found on the outside of condoms".

Classic!!!! Come on then people, now tell mw that these two Burmese ARE NOT rapists.

Please read this statement of fact several times if you have to - it basically say's that the police evidence is wrong as "they didn't use condoms when they raped her!!!!.

Still think that they are innocent little defenceless darlings???????????

We win the day and are fully vindicated in our beliefs!!! Well done TJT and any others in our camp!!

Read it again fella. People are saying that the confession was "forced" out of them by the police. So, yes we all know they said they were guilty of rape and murder.

If the police evidence is right then they are contradicting evidence which could mean they are innocent.

I am not sure either way but I do believe that investigation has been a shambles and that there are some very suspicious things going on that cast a huge shadow over their guilt.

Read this carefully. There is no evidence to support the accusation that they murdered two people. There is witnessed evidence to support they were at the crime scene, and an alleged DNA match to support the rape accusation. It is conjecture to make the leap from that to the actual murders. Admission of guilt since retracted, is NOT evidence either way. I have read no RTP report that their DNA is on a murder weapon (yet), so the evidence is circumstantial at best.

For two suspects facing a lethal injection sentence, I would suggest that the evidence against them needs to be water-tight to obtain a conviction of murder. I would assume the prosecutor thinks along the same lines, that's why the 800 page report was returned to the RTP.

There is witnessed evidence to support they were at the crime scene ... so then how come it seems that the two have no inkling as to who might have done it?

[bertty]

There is witnessed evidence to support they were at the crime scene ... so then how come it seems that the two have no inkling as to who might have done it?

Really there was more than the one witness who wasn't there ? So is this a new guy they have pulled in from the jungle ?

You do know the so called witness has said he was home in bed by 1am.

BTY Crab, where are you from, cause I often think we need a pancake seller to help us understand your posts

Edited October 9, 2014 by bertty