Koh Tao murder report: Prosecutors seek changes

[Pattaya46]

Why no mention today that the suspects have recanted their confessions

and claimed to have had them beaten out of them by the police?

Already mentioned many times on this forum,

but probably a decision of their lawyer to defend them.

They confirmed to their lawyer that they did it though...

[Toscano]

There is witnessed evidence to support they were at the crime scene ... so then how come it seems that the two have no inkling as to who might have done it?

Really there was more than the one witness who wasn't there ? So is this a new guy they have pulled in from the jungle ?

You do know the so called witness has said he was home in bed by 1am.

BTY Crab, where are you from, cause I often think we need a pancake seller to help us understand your posts

The witness has retracted his statement that had confirmed they were still on the beach at the time of the murders. We only have evidence that they went there just after 11pm from the CCTV and that they drank a couple of beers, smoked a couple of butts and sang Rakhine dialect songs from that time. BUT we there is no evidence that they were still on the beach at the time of the crimes which was at least 4 hours later after 3am. We don't know what time they left the beach and went to bed. The witness now says he woke up the next morning and found his friends uninjured and quite normal as if nothing had happened.

How about the two mens sperm that matched their DNA , the hour is irrelevant .

[nativealien]

Wait a minute--I thought this was a 'perfect investigation'!!!???

[sweatalot]

WARNING - HEARSAY post.

So, this is what the CSI guys have been hearing from folks on the island, please don't bite my head off for posting rumours, but in the absence of cold hard facts I think its interesting at least to hear what people who are scared to speak publicly are willing to whisper in secret, make of it what you will.

Sean was indeed tight with Nomsod and family - he worked in their bar, we all know that much.

People have alleged that both Sean and Nomsod are known to gangbang tourists, sometimes using date-rape drugs. Nomsod's English is not so good so Sean was a good middle man, as someone put it.

We also know that Sean has a sexual offence in his past. I SAY AGAIN - I'm posting what I hear, if you DON"T LIKE IT then skip my post.

Also, Sean is still alive because he uploaded a song to his Soundcloud page 4 days ago. I have already sent him a message asking him to speak out

if there is some truth in this hearsay their must be a few women who have been gangraped on that island. It's not unlikely that some of them went to police and nothing happened.

But may be if they learn about this story they would be willing to tell the police in their country. This could help the murder case. How can they be found - if they exist?

[ClutchClark]

Was the interrogation taped?

Even if it wan't, the two suspects readily admit their guilt so it would not be difficult to have them explain themselves to a Native speaker/interpreter.

I could get you to 'readily admit' any darned thing. Just come on over to my house, sit on a wooden seat with your chestnuts hanging down, and let me mess around with two wires coming out of a wall socket.

Please keep your fantasies about roasting my chestnutz locked up in your brain.

No doubt there are many here at TV who would find such things exciting; however, I am not one of them.

Gracias

[SICHONSTEVE]

Sperm found on the outside of condoms?

Maybe someone put the condom on inside-out. It was dark after all!

Condoms sometimes come off in the vagina , it might have remained their during the double rape , to be found afterwards with their DNA on the outside .

Yeh!! but they have stated that they violated/raped her without using condoms.

They didn't mean to kill them either when they bludgeoned them with the hoe - I guess high testosterone and adrenaline levels made them smash them to pulp when they only meant to pacify them before committing the rape (without condoms).

[sweatalot]

There is witnessed evidence to support they were at the crime scene ... so then how come it seems that the two have no inkling as to who might have done it?

Really there was more than the one witness who wasn't there ? So is this a new guy they have pulled in from the jungle ?

You do know the so called witness has said he was home in bed by 1am.

BTY Crab, where are you from, cause I often think we need a pancake seller to help us understand your posts

The witness has retracted his statement that had confirmed they were still on the beach at the time of the murders. We only have evidence that they went there just after 11pm from the CCTV and that they drank a couple of beers, smoked a couple of butts and sang Rakhine dialect songs from that time. BUT we there is no evidence that they were still on the beach at the time of the crimes which was at least 4 hours later after 3am. We don't know what time they left the beach and went to bed. The witness now says he woke up the next morning and found his friends uninjured and quite normal as if nothing had happened.

How about the two mens sperm that matched their DNA , the hour is irrelevant .

The police claim the sperm matched. How can they be trusted?

Typo edited

Edited October 9, 2014 by sweatalot

[Sviss Geez]

Although i Absolutely do not believe these two acted alone.

I would like to believe that these young boys were not involved at all.

Still, people should prepare themselves for the fact that the boys may be in part responsible for some sections of the crime.

That is why i will not contribute to a fund defending them.

Though i would contribute to a fund to pay a private person to investigate the truth of what happened. Namely how david died, since it is not possible for him to have been hit with a hoe. As it had not David dna. And who used the condom, . And the sequence of events how it happened. And who are the other culprits.

"...that these young boys were not involved at all."

Why is it that some posters continue to distort the reports about this case? The accused are not "young boys", they are fully grown adult men.

[Johnsen]

Going on posts by SteveFong this is exactly how it went down iny opinion

*There was an argument in the bar. Mon and co were rejected ( I believe one is police and one influential islander). Later that night whilst on the beach in a group Sean, having been asked by Mon and co for his help, has lured Hanna away behind the rocks so Mon and co could have their way. David on the beach hears her struggle, probably screams and has gone to help and been assaulted with knuckle knife and dragged to the water and drowned.

Sean who was OK with the girl being raped tried to stop Mon and co beating and killing his friend and has been struck and run for his life also. Mon and co have finished the rape buy because she has seen David murdered needs to be killed herself so she can't id Davids killers. Mon runs the other 2 stay on the island again I believe as police and influential islander to contamenate the scene, remove all evidence of their involvement and help the investigation lead somewhere else, plant new evidence to find a patsy ie cigarette butt of the accused, phones etc etc.

No patsy is easily found so they go after Sean, hence the comment u have blood on your hands when they catch up with him in 7/11 and or the minimart. Fearing for his life and now with witness to being chased and being able to post on FB who was chasing him he calls police. Police come to help and knowing now that he has posted on FB and created a scene have to protect him.

Sean gets off the island with help of journalists but is interrogated on BKK by police. Not because they think he did it but to make sure he Nevers opens his mouth RR the truth. Agreeing to this he is allowed to leave Thailand as are David and Hannah's friends. They have all been told and or threatened to keep their mouths shut.

SteveFong and u people who were there how close am I. I reckon that's it.

What's happened since with BK air and the Uni is just all apart of the cover up money chain etc. Mon was on the first flight out. He was never in school and all of this just goes to show u how evil this whole thing is. Thai authorities are prepared to maybe executed 2 innocent people so 3 weak pric#s could get there rocks off and save some face.

You know the saying AMAZING THAILAND.

Edited October 9, 2014 by Johnsen

[Soutpeel]

Sperm found on the outside of condoms?

Maybe someone put the condom on inside-out. It was dark after all!

Condoms sometimes come off in the vagina , it might have remained their during the double rape , to be found afterwards with their DNA on the outside .

Yeh!! but they have stated that they violated/raped her without using condoms.

They didn't mean to kill them either when they bludgeoned them with the hoe - I guess high testosterone and adrenaline levels made them smash them to pulp when they only meant to pacify them before committing the rape (without condoms).

did you have hand in writing the 850 page RTP report the prosecutor is knocking back ?

with the correct torture method, you can get somebody to confess to being the queen of Sheba, or Elton John's love child....

The fact is if torture is proved, the confessions don't mean anything

[ClutchClark]

not sure, what everyone is waffling about those two clowns.

- they repeatedly confessed to the crime

- they confessed to their lawyer having raped the victim

- they were at the crime scene around the time (they said so, 3rd man=friend said so, know when they came back)

- if anything, then the CCTV-runner looks like one of them (skinny migrant bar worker)

- they never claimed torture, not even to their lawyer "not treated well" (only their friends believed of torture)

- if anyone, then they blamed the pancake man of mistreating - who then further attended every HumanRights-meeting

- we never saw a single pic of any of their torture-wounds, even though the guardian will have seen them

- newspaper should be the first to publish those torture pics, no ?

is everyone around this case retarded ?

Why do you ask if they are retarded? Simply because they are all advocating for the release of the "likely" brutal murderers of the British couple?

The keyboard CSI:TVF community has concluded, based on the hearsay and 3rd hand evidence of poorly interpreted Coconut news releases that the guilty party must be Thai and some have even made a connection all the way back to the kid who killed the cop in his Ferrari.

This thread is like a lost chapter from a Ken Kesey book.

Edited October 9, 2014 by ClutchClark

[Carrerakiss]

Declaring ones innocence does not make one innocent.

Not sure about other countries but the US is chock full of prisoners who declare their innocence.

Not saying they did it not saying they didn't.

Only saying recanting a confession is not proof either way.

Since the possibility continues to exist that they did commit this horrendous crime, I am not going to extend my sympathy to them.

I will leave that to the posters here who really want to see a Thai convicted.

You are quite right. Recanting a confession absolutely does not mean that the person recanting is innocent. On the other hand, it removes a fairly considerable piece of evidence that they are guilty.

I personally am not beating a drum that they must be innocent. But I am beating a drum for a FULL investigation that proves the guilt of any and all involved. If it is just these two, so be it. But if it is not these two, or is these two plus other or others?

The whole investigation seems to have just ended up focused on these two and then stopped right there. Apart from some inconsistencies in the case against these two, there are other leads that may or may not link others to the crime, that appear to have dropped completely out of sight.

And while mentioning a full investigation, what happened to the junior BIB who the BIB themselves acknowledged "planted" ( their word not mine) blood stained shorts in Mr Ware's luggage?

Edited October 9, 2014 by Carrerakiss

[Sviss Geez]

Wow a very very interesting report. Nobody saw the kid at uni till the 16th and he had scratches on his arm and neck..... If that's true I don't have words to describe the people from the bottom to the top trying to cover this up. Its just unfathomable... Let's get a journalist to the uni to start investigating these claims to c if anyone can back up this story... Come on you uni students.. Did u see this kid with scratches on his neck and arms. Speak up, its your chance to get rid of the rotten core of this country or at least the start. DNA would be left under Hanna's finger nails. . This needs some very serious looking into....

My missus figures at least ฿ 25 Million has changed hands already and ownership or interests in one or more businesses.

Is she one of the investigators?

[geraldbradford]

BK air would u step forward pls. Place your hand on the bible. Are you prepared to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God.

Was this kid on any of your flights the morning the murders were committed.

If it was him he would have been even more daft to use BK Air, as he would have been caught on multiple CCTV cameras in Samui and Bangkok.

It would be much more likely he got a speedboat to the mainland and drove up to BKK. At that time of day if you really wanted to, you could probably do it in 6 hours door to door.

Not attempting to muddy the waters but these threads are for information seeking.

In another thread a few days ago a mention was made by someone referring to a facebook pic. of this Sour Milk having his Mercedes' tyre repaired near Chumpon. I haven't found anything Re this; does anyone know of this pic. if it exists or not?

[SICHONSTEVE]

Although i Absolutely do not believe these two acted alone.

I would like to believe that these young boys were not involved at all.

Still, people should prepare themselves for the fact that the boys may be in part responsible for some sections of the crime.

That is why i will not contribute to a fund defending them.

Though i would contribute to a fund to pay a private person to investigate the truth of what happened. Namely how david died, since it is not possible for him to have been hit with a hoe. As it had not David dna. And who used the condom, . And the sequence of events how it happened. And who are the other culprits.

"...that these young boys were not involved at all."

Why is it that some posters continue to distort the reports about this case? The accused are not "young boys", they are fully grown adult men.

Unlike many of the members on this forum!!!

[JLCrab]

There is witnessed evidence to support they were at the crime scene ... so then how come it seems that the two have no inkling as to who might have done it?

They might know but are too afraid to say anything.

Who do they work for? Who tells them what to do?

You're suggesting right now what's foremost on their minds is returning to their bus boy jobs?

[jamstock]

Condoms!!!?? Who puts on a condom before raping??

[CapFarmer]

"However, both suspects insisted [to me] that they had committed the crimes," said the human-rights commissioner.

Just asking but..........does that statement not sound really strange to you ? I mean insisted ?

Although i Absolutely do not believe these two acted alone.

I would like to believe that these young boys were not involved at all.

Still, people should prepare themselves for the fact that the boys may be in part responsible for some sections of the crime.

That is why i will not contribute to a fund defending them.

Though i would contribute to a fund to pay a private person to investigate the truth of what happened. Namely how david died, since it is not possible for him to have been hit with a hoe. As it had not David dna. And who used the condom, . And the sequence of events how it happened. And who are the other culprits.

These two young suspects have had more support than I would have thought possible, and maybe more than they deserve. I hope they will provide the truth as to what happened, but I suspect that either they were too drunk at the time, or they are simply scared to tell the truth and implicate the true murderer. Who ever committed the murder probably made sure that the two suspects too drunk to be able to remember what really happened in any detail so they would never be able to provide effective testimony against anyone. The suspects were probably handy for obtaining DNA for the crime scene, but were probably too drunk to be able to clearly explain what really happened.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Condoms!!!?? Who puts on a condom before raping??

A rapist that doesn't want to leave semen inside the victim as it can be a bit of a give away!!!

[Carrerakiss]

Why no mention today that the suspects have recanted their confessions

and claimed to have had them beaten out of them by the police?

Already mentioned many times on this forum,

but probably a decision of their lawyer to defend them.

They confirmed to their lawyer that they did it though...

It's all getting a bit confusing, but I think I read that they insisted they did it to a UN Human Rights commissioner. The report from their lawyer was supposedly that they recanted.

At least that's my current understanding.

[jaltsc]

Why can I not find it in me to believe these people... oh I remember... it was just one very small word !!!!!

When asked if he had told the police if he was happy with their work the British Ambassador said NO.

This after being quoted by those he was suppossed to have talked to had said he was very happy and told them YES.

So if they can get the words yes and no mixed up so easy then they really cant be trusted to open their mouths even to breath.

You have no understanding of Thai public relations. Don't you know that YES and NO are same, same, but different, depending on which interpretation suits their purpose at the time?

[Sviss Geez]

BK air would u step forward pls. Place your hand on the bible. Are you prepared to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God.

Was this kid on any of your flights the morning the murders were committed.

"BK air would u step forward pls. Place your hand on the bible. Are you prepared to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God."

Think you've got the wrong country, this is Thailand, "the bible" doesn't carry any weight here..

[CapFarmer]

It is not clear to me who actually represents the two accused migrant workers that are from a third country nation which may or may not be Myanmar. I read reports that their lawyer states the two suspects had recanted their confessions, then I read this statement from a "Human Rights Group" stating that the accused are insisting that they did commit the crimes... I guess that some of the "Human Rights Group" folks as well as the migrant workers' country's embassy, which may or may not be Burma, might not have the interests of the accused at heart.

[ClutchClark]

Condoms!!!?? Who puts on a condom before raping??

Uhh...we will have to take your word for it.

[HeijoshinCool]

Sperm found on the outside of condoms?

.

Maybe someone put it on inside-out.

[Carrerakiss]

WARNING - HEARSAY post.

So, this is what the CSI guys have been hearing from folks on the island, please don't bite my head off for posting rumours, but in the absence of cold hard facts I think its interesting at least to hear what people who are scared to speak publicly are willing to whisper in secret, make of it what you will.

Sean was indeed tight with Nomsod and family - he worked in their bar, we all know that much.

People have alleged that both Sean and Nomsod are known to gangbang tourists, sometimes using date-rape drugs. Nomsod's English is not so good so Sean was a good middle man, as someone put it.

We also know that Sean has a sexual offence in his past. I SAY AGAIN - I'm posting what I hear, if you DON"T LIKE IT then skip my post.

Also, Sean is still alive because he uploaded a song to his Soundcloud page 4 days ago. I have already sent him a message asking him to speak out

It is hearsay but much of the police story is speculative too, so much so that the prosecutors knocked back the file, rather than risk being red faced in court.

There is something very dodgy about Sean. A competent law enforcement jurisdiction would not have let him leave the country. The case will certainly be incomplete without a thorough investigation of his background on the island and possible role. Even if he had no role on the night, it is possible that he had been involved in shenanigans involving tourist girls and Fresh Milk, Mon, himself et al which could have lead him to put together a reasonable mosaic of what might have happened. Perhaps he doesn't want to talk, if he was involved in either setting up date rapes for others or participating in them.

The thing about Sean is that he was covered in blood " from an accident". Initially that made him a suspect but it was later ruled that the blood was not from the victims and he was ruled out as a suspect. But I never read in any news report that it was his own blood. Something that I think it would have been natural to say, if indeed it was the case.

So who's blood was it?

[hellyes2oo2]

I think jlcrab lives in isaan, you can catch him trolling on the tv isaan forum a lot. The rtp have the problem that in the past they have never really been known for their honesty and integrity, and this is now really biting them in the arse. How could they think that a case that has so many inconsistencies could be wrapped up so quickly.What they didn't expect was the prosecutors would send this case back to them, with the demand to find more solid evidence, we know that because of the chief of police statement " we are sure we have the real culprits, no more investigating needed, case closed".

I know i may be repeating myself, buts lets look at the more glaring errors in the police evidence.

1 the two culprits were dna tested on the first day, they were pictured among the 300 burmese workers tested. The police stated as saying there were no dna matches in those 300 people.

2 They were supposed to have said they hit david with the blunt side of the hoe, his wounds say different, he was obviously killed by a knife, his wounds were completely different to Hannah's.

3. They supposedly told police that they killed them because they saw david and hannah having sex on the beach and were jealous, and even the police said there is no evidence that david and hannah had sex, the next day the police changed that staement to read, They admitted killing them because they saw david and hannah kissing on the beach, and yet no dna from david was found on hannah and visa verca.

4 Police stated that davids dna was not found on the hoe.so that makes the burmese guys statement totally false, one wonders why the police accepted their confessions.

5 If we are to believe police statements regarding mobile phones it would seem that david had 3 phones.They originally said that davids phone was found at the murder scene bloodstained and with a blonde hair stuck to it, but this was a phone he must have bought in thailand, because the i phone he brought with him was blocked in thailand. They also stated that the i phone was found in davids luggage. So where did the phone the police claimed belonged to david that was found behind the burmese guys room come from. Surely if the phone found behind their room was touched by them, it would contain not only their fingerprints but davids also, but they have not given any evidence to prove yeah or nay.

6 Why have the police not given an explanation as to why the mafia godfather and his family were not dna tested, and i don't buy this abusing their human rights thing, because i am pretty sure in a case as serious as this they could be ordered by a judge to give dna.

7 What happened to the 2 minutes of footage removed from the cctv film.

8 On television 3 days ago a police pathologist said that there was a 3rd persons dna found on hannahs body, it was not davids or any of the 300 burmese tested, so why are the police not searching for a 3rd person and still insisting the 2 burmese guys were the only ones involved.

9 The police's star witness has now recanted his statement accusing his friends of being involved, a statement he says he gave due to threats made by the police. So who will they now produce in court.

I think that is enough for now. It will be interesting to see what the good general tells his myanmar counterparts today, and will the general make false statements saying the burmese goverment are happy with the thai handling of the case, as did the police yesterday, only to be shot down in flames by the burmese officials.

The sad thing about this is that i am sure that everyone on thai visa, be it we so called theory conspirators, or our opposition who i amongst others have labelled

thai police arse lickers, only want the truth to come out and whoever commited this horrendous crime to be caught. If these burmese guys are proven to be innocent, i fear we will never know who did it, because money talks, and i am sure many brown envolopes have changed hands.

[ClutchClark]

"However, both suspects insisted [to me] that they had committed the crimes," said the human-rights commissioner.

Just asking but..........does that statement not sound really strange to you ? I mean insisted ?

Although i Absolutely do not believe these two acted alone.

I would like to believe that these young boys were not involved at all.

Still, people should prepare themselves for the fact that the boys may be in part responsible for some sections of the crime.

That is why i will not contribute to a fund defending them.

Though i would contribute to a fund to pay a private person to investigate the truth of what happened. Namely how david died, since it is not possible for him to have been hit with a hoe. As it had not David dna. And who used the condom, . And the sequence of events how it happened. And who are the other culprits.

These two young suspects have had more support than I would have thought possible, and maybe more than they deserve. I hope they will provide the truth as to what happened, but I suspect that either they were too drunk at the time, or they are simply scared to tell the truth and implicate the true murderer. Who ever committed the murder probably made sure that the two suspects too drunk to be able to remember what really happened in any detail so they would never be able to provide effective testimony against anyone. The suspects were probably handy for obtaining DNA for the crime scene, but were probably too drunk to be able to clearly explain what really happened.

Wait, they are too scared to tell the truth?

They are quite likely facing the death penalty if they are found guilty.

What do you think might have them more frightened than that?

[HeijoshinCool]

I've got to wonder what's in 850 pages if there isn't enough "crucial information?"

When I wrote reports, it was limited to crucial information. Yep. 100% crucial, or it does not get included.

Anything else would be, like many of the posts in this thread, what's commonly referred to as "superfluous."

[CapFarmer]

What I'd like to know is where us the British government in all of this?

Hey I'm of the opinion that these guys did it but you guys in the camp of they are innocent and have the Facebook campaign going and amnesty intl etc can anybody provide any statement made on behalf of British government?

This only thing I have seen is where watching events closely.

Does the silence means they are in support of the police or they have no balls to speak out?

Seems strange to me considering the campaigns going on

The news reports covering repatriation of the bodies stated that Britain would conduct an inquest into the murder on 6 Jan 15. I don't know what the inquest will involve, but that is what was reported.